2009.02.10 07:00 - Play bubble toys and Care

The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

Riddle Sideways: /hide
Riddle Sideways: Good Morning, Master Recorder
Riddle Sideways: hope you don't get offended that I talk to you :)
Riddle Sideways: Good Morning buddha
buddha Nirvana: Hi riddle
buddha Nirvana: :)
Riddle Sideways: yes, that info ball gives a postcard that explains our group
Riddle Sideways: I don't think we have met before
Riddle Sideways: have you been to these sessions before?
Riddle Sideways: Good Morning , Adams
Adams Rubble: Good Morning Riddle and buddha
buddha Nirvana: Hello adams:)
Riddle Sideways: you enter sooooo bright and sparkley
Adams Rubble: buddha was here with us last night
Adams Rubble: :)
Riddle Sideways: they are like light bubbles
Riddle Sideways: they drift and drift then pop
Adams Rubble: Susi gave this too me. I've been seeing spots in front of my eyes though
buddha Nirvana: What is the name of the Object?
buddha Nirvana: Or is it a piece of clothing?
Adams Rubble: "Aura Generator"
buddha Nirvana: thnks :)
Adams Rubble: It changes color
buddha Nirvana: Are you able to change the colours?
buddha Nirvana: Ah, nice:)
Adams Rubble: Hello fefonz
Riddle Sideways: ooooo deep blue
Riddle Sideways: Good Morning fefonz
Fefonz Quan: Good morning all :)
buddha Nirvana: Hello ferfonz
Adams Rubble is showing off Susi's aura genrator
Riddle Sideways: like soap bubbles... I can't catch one
Adams Rubble: /purple
Riddle Sideways: I still love bubbles
Adams Rubble: Hello Corvi :)
Riddle Sideways: Good Morning Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all
Fefonz Quan: Hey Corvi :)
buddha Nirvana: Hello corvi :)
Riddle Sideways: ah Fefonz can generate too
Riddle Sideways: Good Morning Doug
Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
Riddle Sideways: join the light bubbles
Corvuscorva Nightfire: do you have one, Riddle? Susi's given 'em out freely. Heya doug
doug Sosa: hi.
Riddle Sideways: no I don't have one
Fefonz Quan: yep :)
Riddle Sideways: thank you
Riddle Sideways: both
Corvuscorva Nightfire: welcome...here's one for you, Doug and Buddha
Adams Rubble admires Corvi's ingenuity
Adams Rubble: Doug, I was GOC on Sunday and when I did the log...
Adams Rubble: I had some thoughts about what you were saying
buddha Nirvana: Thanks v much corvu :)
Adams Rubble: Since you never read the logs
Adams Rubble: You are totally unaware of what we all have been doing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: much welcome, Buddha.. adams, we lost doug
Adams Rubble: But many of us have been learning to use skills we didn;t know we have
Adams Rubble: so we are doing more than just looking for appearances
Adams Rubble: If that is what most interests you
Adams Rubble: there would be an opportunity for you to give a workshop just in that at Kira
Adams Rubble: Then every week there would be a session just devoted to that
Adams Rubble: and people interested would come prepared to talk about it
Fefonz Quan: hey, targeting is working :)
Adams Rubble: Welll I see that was in vain
Riddle Sideways: which sunday log?
Adams Rubble: 7 am
Riddle Sideways: am trying to catch up
Adams Rubble: Doug was feeling we were not doing PaB sessions correctly
Riddle Sideways: I have such a love of bubbles that concentrating on over is hard
Adams Rubble: too much fooling around :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Fefonz Quan: PLAY as being ...
Riddle Sideways: are we Playing toooo much
Fefonz Quan: sometimes, yeah
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...and...perhaps all our bubbles...
Adams Rubble is attached to her bubbles
Adams Rubble: hehe
Riddle Sideways: PLAYing with bubbles was probably my first adventure outside myself
Riddle Sideways: seems back before I can remember being a little child there were bubbles
Fefonz Quan: intreresting, first memories
Riddle Sideways: as a kid, imaging myself as a little person inside the floaring bubble
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Susi.
Riddle Sideways: or being the buble
Adams Rubble: Hello Susi :)
Riddle Sideways: with a little short life
Corvuscorva Nightfire: wow, riddle..
Riddle Sideways: but bringing joy to so many
Susi Alcott: hi all
Riddle Sideways: Good Morning Susi
Riddle Sideways: and thanks for the auras
Susi Alcott: Good Morning Riddle
Fefonz Quan: Susi, see what have you done ? :)
Susi Alcott: all are welvome
Susi Alcott: oh
Susi Alcott: pls thank Buffalo Oldbull
Susi Alcott: aura generator is a present from him
Susi Alcott: and he knows I like to share
Adams Rubble: :)
Susi Alcott: so it's to copy for that
Riddle Sideways: buffalo Oldbull thanks, whereever you are
Adams Rubble: :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Riddle Sideways: did no one else really really get into soap bubbles?
Fefonz Quan: (i'm blue, yabadee yabada...)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not as wonderfully as you did, Riddle..that's a pretty amazing way of thinking..
Riddle Sideways: seeing the wind currents visually via bubble drift
Fefonz Quan: well, i enjoyed them, the colors swirl in them till they are fading away
Riddle Sideways: much easier first step then trying to be the spoon
Adams Rubble: Doug I spoke to you earlier but you seem to have left during my speech
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, smiling..much easier.
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: I am going to paste it into the chat log (please excuse me everyone else)
Adams Rubble: [7:13] You: Doug, I was GOC on Sunday and when I did the log... [7:13] You: I had some thoughts about what you were saying [7:14] buddha Nirvana: Thanks v much corvu :) [7:14] You: Since you never read the logs [7:14] You: You are totally unaware of what we all have been doing [7:14] Corvuscorva Nightfire: much welcome, Buddha.. adams, we lost doug [7:14] You: But many of us have been learning to use skills we didn;t know we have [7:14] You: so we are doing more than just looking for appearances [7:15] You: If that is what most interests you [7:15] You: there would be an opportunity for you to give a workshop just in that at Kira [7:15] You: Then every week there would be a session just devoted to that [7:15] You: and people interested would come prepared to talk about it
Riddle Sideways: is Doug really here?
Riddle Sideways: Doug's presence seems to be coming and going
Fefonz Quan: hard to see through all those auras
Fefonz Quan: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
doug Sosa: here.
doug Sosa: I couldn't resist riding a bubble out.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles, laughs.
Adams Rubble: :)
Fefonz Quan: bubbleport
Riddle Sideways: later, I read many scientific paper on soap bubbles
Riddle Sideways: about surface tensions
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and what did you find, Riddle?
Riddle Sideways: and conhesion
Riddle Sideways: and spectra
Riddle Sideways: but science again missed the beauty
Riddle Sideways: and simple joy of bubbles
Adams Rubble: One thing I have learned in PaB is that there are many scientists looking at the beauty :)
Riddle Sideways: however, many hippies picked up on bubbles
Adams Rubble: :)
Riddle Sideways: the Kultz catalog had many bubble products
Adams Rubble: Kultz catalog?
Riddle Sideways wonders if I spelled that corrent
Riddle Sideways: Klutz
Adams Rubble: Klutz Catalog? (hehe)
Riddle Sideways: sorry, speeling aint me
Adams Rubble doesn't know what the catalog is unless you are trying to spell Sears
Riddle Sideways: you all should know about this catalog and company
Adams Rubble embarsassingly ignorant
Riddle Sideways: I learned juggling with their bean bags
Riddle Sideways: 3 bags come with a GREAT (and funny) book
Fefonz Quan: i did with oranges
Riddle Sideways: booklet that starts on how easy and fun it is to drop the bags on the floor
Riddle Sideways: step 1:
Riddle Sideways: drop the bag
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins...ah! that's exactly the way I leanred..am still learning.
Adams Rubble: hehe
Riddle Sideways: step 2: pick it up
Riddle Sideways: repeat
Riddle Sideways: Klutz.com
Riddle Sideways: they now have hundreds of products
Adams Rubble: Is it a toy catalog?
Riddle Sideways: but, they started with juggling bags
Riddle Sideways: and soap bubbles
Riddle Sideways: ah... each of us defines TOY differently
Riddle Sideways: and what TOYs you PLAY with
Adams Rubble back from looking at website
Riddle Sideways: some play spoons, others guitars, others paint brushs
Fefonz Quan: other play big money as a toy too
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Riddle Sideways: yes, and some just talk
Adams Rubble shudders
Fefonz Quan: not to mension people :-/
Riddle Sideways: some play in their minds
Adams Rubble shudders again
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Riddle.
Adams Rubble late with comments
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Corvuscorva Nightfire: with memes and ideas.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or "characters"
Riddle Sideways: good question to ask yourself...
Riddle Sideways: what are your TOYs
Fefonz Quan: /nods to Corvi
Riddle Sideways: bubbles?
Riddle Sideways: SL?
Fefonz Quan: a little like the 'stick' in Pheno
Riddle Sideways: very much like
Fefonz Quan: it does get me to a PaB question
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and...like children...we are all learning from our "toys"
Adams Rubble: yes Corvi
Fefonz Quan: on some level, we can treat everything as TOY, Play
Riddle Sideways: yes
Adams Rubble nods
Fefonz Quan: but then we are at the danger of loosing the meaning
Fefonz Quan: theimportance of things
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, thoughtfully....
Fefonz Quan: i find it one of the most subtle but principle point of all that "appearance' approach
Riddle Sideways: hmmm, I am wondering
Adams Rubble: please say more Fefonz
Riddle Sideways: "losing"the meaning? Is there a pre-set meaning?
Riddle Sideways: most times toys and play don't START with a meaning
Fefonz Quan: IF i would be able to see all as appearances, as play, i might stop caring, be detacched
Riddle Sideways: they often go somewhere
Fefonz Quan: i agree riddle, maybe detachment is a betterr word
doug Sosa: when we are in the presence of an object, one can say there are twopathws. One of meaning, which adds to the object yet takes it away from us, distances us, or to stick with the apperance, unmediated by concepts. Both are legitimate.
Fefonz Quan: sure, my question is - how to loose the concepts and stay caring, involved, uman
Fefonz Quan: human*
Riddle Sideways: (small aside, that human might not be where I what/need to stay)
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks hard on this...
Riddle Sideways: to loosen the caring, meaning attachments
Fefonz Quan: is it?
Fefonz Quan bring compassion to the soup
Riddle Sideways: the rigid-ness of our dictated definitions
Adams Rubble: I think I see the playing as somethign I do most of the time and then drop all that when I need to just listen or see
Fefonz Quan: see as appearance, see as 'real'?
Adams Rubble: yes, like that
Fefonz Quan: but if it's real - can it hurt you?
Adams Rubble thinks not
Fefonz Quan: so is it important to you?
Riddle Sideways: yet, when we are deeply, seriously and thoroughly involved with seeing/hearing/knowing other then we play all the scerios at once
Corvuscorva Nightfire nodsnods to Riddle.
Fefonz Quan: scerios?
Riddle Sideways: probably can hurt you
Adams Rubble: scenarios?
Riddle Sideways: need to define "hurt you"
Fefonz Quan: ok'
Riddle Sideways: would I get hurt if I leave my house today?
Adams Rubble sees listening and seeing as becoming one with the larger entity..how can that hurt me?
Riddle Sideways: not enough reason not drive, fly, live
Adams Rubble: one with Being
Adams Rubble: one with God
Riddle Sideways: All
Fefonz Quan: It can't Adams, but if nothing can't hurt you, do you care?
Fefonz Quan: why would you protect your home rather tham mine in that case?
Adams Rubble: well there are plenty of things that can hurt me
Adams Rubble: and if being/God wanted to hurt me it could
Riddle Sideways: safe/hurt and care/no-care would be 2 different cases
Fefonz Quan: well, mostly what we don;t care about won't hurt us
Fefonz Quan: (i brought hurt as one side of caring,just an example)
Riddle Sideways: it can be hurt to see that something we KNEW was wrong
Fefonz Quan: ?
Fefonz Quan: why riddle?
Adams Rubble: I think we may be looking at this slightly differently this morning although we all are lloking at it similarly overall :)
Adams Rubble agrees with Riddle..hurt for a while
Fefonz Quan: i think we are looking it similarly, i don't argue,
Adams Rubble not srghuing either :)
Susi Alcott: >Adams _/!\_
Adams Rubble can;'t spell -- arguing
Riddle Sideways: neither can I speel
Adams Rubble: hehe
Fefonz Quan: you spole neither :)
Riddle Sideways: but arguing is one ofbest ways to discuss
Adams Rubble: sometimes :)
Riddle Sideways: yes, sometimes
Adams Rubble: sometimes we are just tryiong to find the words
Fefonz Quan: i tried to raise a question concerning our practice
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..and...it's a right one..important...
Fefonz Quan: on some level, this practice drop all concepts
Fefonz Quan: (not that i am there surely).
Riddle Sideways: there is a loosening of caring too
Fefonz Quan: exactly
Riddle Sideways: or one axpect of caring
Adams Rubble listening
Riddle Sideways: we care enough to try
Riddle Sideways: we care so much to try a new way of caring
Fefonz Quan: on the other hand, caring/not caring, prefaring one thing no another, is what gives our lives meaning
Riddle Sideways: there are thousands of cliches about letting go to get
Adams Rubble: ah
Fefonz Quan: Surely, i know that one of the Axioms we use, is that this total dtopping will bring on natural compassion, deep touch to everything
Adams Rubble: But when we drop all that we are in a place beyond all that
Adams Rubble: Suddenly one with the universe, with God, with Being or whatever
Fefonz Quan: But if i ignore that Axiom, dropping might as well lead to detachment
Adams Rubble: with all that ever was and has ever been
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Fefonz...I kinda think that for me...that compassion is something I do now...a little...not alot...but a little...and I learn from it.
Adams Rubble: we just are
Fefonz Quan: adams, when oyu are one with god, would you protect your child before mine? and wh then?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: each time I do it...
Riddle Sideways: visiting detachment to truely see what attachments we had/need/want might be very good
Fefonz Quan: /nods to Corvi
Fefonz Quan: yes, riddle
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's not for me an all or nothing thing...jsut each act gives me a little more.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and..i don't know that "who's child will i protect will be an issue if i get good at it.
Susi Alcott: hard things comes alwasy with power; for careing we always need to work ---imo---
Adams Rubble thinking about Fefonz's question...on one level it is not relevant..and yet it is important...where does compassion come from?
Susi Alcott: yet I believe that all who truely want to care are always succesfull wtih it
Fefonz Quan: the dark side, Susi
Susi Alcott: to me the dark side is only fears and not understanding
Fefonz Quan: Corvi, the child was an example for a case where we need to choose to do something, based on 'meaning' or 'caring'
Susi Alcott: so that is the reason why human mind needs to work with that one can care
Fefonz Quan: we bounce into those many times
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..I know...let me work a little more to explain
Corvuscorva Nightfire: a child needs so much..yours and mine.
Susi Alcott: I am again very sad that I must go
Fefonz Quan: Bye Susi :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and when I am attached..there is only a little i can give..of all kinds of caring..including protection..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Susi.
Susi Alcott: and wishing good time to continue to you all
Riddle Sideways: yes, most times the best discussion is at the end
Corvuscorva Nightfire: when i can let go...ihave more to give the child in front of me..who is likely to be my own.
Riddle Sideways: bye suzi
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Adams Rubble wonders if the connection is that compassion arises from the ability to be able to listen to, see and loving God/Being
Fefonz Quan: i agree Corvi,
Adams Rubble: bye SDusi :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: so that this child...this one i have taken responsibility for...gets more...than if i was concerned about "mine" or "yours"
Fefonz Quan: attachment is clearly an obstacle on many levels
Adams Rubble: Yes, we live in a world of responsibiliti4es
Riddle Sideways: so we practice de-attachment
Riddle Sideways: to loosen those bonds
Riddle Sideways: to see what might
Adams Rubble wonders if the ethical question comes from our dual responsibilities...
Adams Rubble: one to our families...
Adams Rubble: and one to thw world
Fefonz Quan: so to some degree, we have all here a grand agreemant about de-attachemnt on somelevel
Adams Rubble: Buddhists seem to teach the latter is something we need to give priority
Fefonz Quan nods
Adams Rubble: that I learn to see your child as equal to mine
Fefonz Quan: theoretically, right
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nonon
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just...BE and see what happens...
Fefonz Quan: but practically? can it be done? is it human?
Adams Rubble: It is not easy fefonz
Corvuscorva Nightfire: in that one little moment that you are facing.
Adams Rubble: My children might consider be devastated bu it :)
Riddle Sideways: yes, but very hard
Riddle Sideways: needs to be worked/played toward
Fefonz Quan: but more than hard - do we want to be there?
Adams Rubble: they thrive on parental love
Riddle Sideways: not in one bigstep
Fefonz Quan: is that a rightful goal?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Love THEM!
Riddle Sideways: personnally think so
Corvuscorva Nightfire: one doesn't stop loving the child in front of you!
Corvuscorva Nightfire feels strongly about this...but has no idea if she's correct in a buddhist sense.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just...love the child in front of you no matter WHO it is.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: with all you've got at the moment.
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must run. I am not comfortabel with the Buddhist ideal but have been thinking over this question myself
Corvuscorva Nightfire: whatever that is.
Adams Rubble: I don;t have answers for myself either Fefonz
Adams Rubble: bye all, nice to see you all :)
Riddle Sideways: bye Adams
Riddle Sideways: I have not answers either
Fefonz Quan: Bye adams, thanks for the talk
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and I'm just pulling all mine together a little...so...I'm being a little more "lecturey" than might be right....
Riddle Sideways: hypothsis, notions, ideals that I am refining
Fefonz Quan: not at all, a great lecture of compassin if at all Corvi :)
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Corvuscorva Nightfire sighs..but not what you needed at all.
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at the gesture..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have to go...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I look forward to seeing what you and Riddle come up with.
Fefonz Quan: /need compassion any time
Riddle Sideways: me too
Corvuscorva Nightfire: awww.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Fefonz...lets keep asking this one...
Riddle Sideways: This was very good stuff to think through
Fefonz Quan: sure
Riddle Sideways: we seem to really have cared about your caring question
Fefonz Quan: yes, i think it is a thorough conversation
Riddle Sideways: one most wrestle with/around
Fefonz Quan: now i understand it got us to one of the known wonders of budduism:
Fefonz Quan: equinimity vs. indifference
Fefonz Quan: the critics say they are the same,
Riddle Sideways: very tough subject
Fefonz Quan: thus critisize the whole concept
Fefonz Quan: while the practitioner claim to a big differnce
Riddle Sideways: like argueing... critizism is a good form of debate, research, trial
Fefonz Quan: ad us, the student, should keep an eye to be on the right side of that subtle border
Fefonz Quan: and*
Fefonz Quan: yes, debates, argues help
Riddle Sideways: am in doubt over the "Right" side
buddha Nirvana: _/\_
Riddle Sideways: but that is the topic of some other day
Riddle Sideways: ah buddah
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Riddle Sideways: thanks for the time
buddha Nirvana: thank you :))
Riddle Sideways: I need to go too
Fefonz Quan: see you, thanks for the talk :)
Riddle Sideways: thank you for giving so much to think over
Fefonz Quan: namaste