2009.06.19 19:00 - Gratitude, Self, Being and Primal Spirit

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble subbing for Dakini Rhodes who was detained. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

I sat by myself "appreciating" the view for awhile. I had sat down in a different spot than my usual spot and struck by the vuew though the trees behind me. It was when I claimed the session that gratitude first struck me:

Adams Rubble: Wol and Fael are good friends and really diligent technicians for PaB :)

I thought about how much various people haave done to make this group such a great place to be starting with Pema who made it all possible. The Stim for his influence on what we do here and sticking wwith us too. And then:

Adams Rubble: How wonderful it is that Storm has dedicated so much time to building for the group

And then to the early guardians. How many groups have their own expeert on dreams? What a warm and thoughtful person maxine is! Gen who does so much behind the scenes.dams

Adams Rubble: wow, the list could go on and on
Adams Rubble remembering Pia and all she did on the website with the exerpts
Eos Amaterasu: HI Adams!

I was lost in thought about Riddle and Caledonia and Stevenaia and sessions of theirs I had attended and not noticed Eos arrive. Eos quickly responded with a quote about gratitude.

Adams Rubble: Hi Eos, was just sitting being grateful :)
Adams Rubble: How are you?
Adams Rubble: I missed you come in
Eos Amaterasu: Good.... one of my fav William Blake quotes is "gratitude is heaven itself"
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: We have quite a bit to be grateful for in this PaB group :)
Adams Rubble: whoops

I missed the bell

Eos Amaterasu: I never hear the starting bell any more; I did hear the ending one
Adams Rubble: I have a bad habit of looking at my keyboard when I type and miss the 90 second stop
Adams Rubble: I almost never have my sound on
Adams Rubble: it disturbs others
Eos Amaterasu: I like to hear the brids and other sounds "-)
Adams Rubble: all the sounds of those birds and fountains. hehe

Pila had seen Dakini's email and had come to the rescue

Adams Rubble: Hi Pila :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Adams and Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Ah, hi Pila!
Adams Rubble: we are talking about being grateful
Pila Mulligan: I also saw Dakini's emial and came to the rescue :)
Adams Rubble: I didn't answwer fast enough (giggles)
Pila Mulligan: looks like the situation is being covered well
Pila Mulligan: ahh, like Jerry Garcia :)
Pila Mulligan: (a little ireverence) -- The Grateful Dead
Adams Rubble: How are things out in paradise?
Pila Mulligan: nice day today, thanks
Adams Rubble: It is nice to see you both
Eos Amaterasu: Thnx, it's nice to be here
Adams Rubble: we had a sunny day today between many rainy days
Pila Mulligan: thank you, Adams, and it is nice to be here indeed, Eos
Pila Mulligan: summer is nigh at hand
Eos Amaterasu: We're approaching the solstice
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: does the temperature vary much there Pila?
Pila Mulligan: not so much, mostly the difference between summer and winter is rainfall -- but it does vary maybe 10 degrees farenheit
Adams Rubble: wow
Pila Mulligan: vary by season that is
Adams Rubble: yes
Pila Mulligan: the big variance is by elevation -- sea level and up on the montains
Adams Rubble: that makes sense

Talk about the weather reminds me of standing in the rain and it leads in to an experience I had in Princeton with Pema and Fefonz. Is this Being leading me here?

Adams Rubble: I was standing on a train platform yesterday in the rain and was surprised how cold it was just about 25 feet above street level
Eos Amaterasu: Where is this?
Adams Rubble: nothing to block the wind
Pila Mulligan: yes, this edge of the seaon weather can be funny sometimes
Adams Rubble: central NJ
Adams Rubble: I went to see Pema in Princeton yesterday
Adams Rubble: and Fefonz too
Adams Rubble: Had a nice lunch :)
Adams Rubble: nice to see them
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Adams Rubble: An interesting thing happened
Pila Mulligan: Pema must have a treasure trove of frequenet flyer miles
Adams Rubble: Fefonz and Pema were talking about "self"
Adams Rubble: yes Pila, quite a schedule
Adams Rubble: and Pema suggested an exercise
Pila Mulligan: ah, self, what a topic
Adams Rubble: that we try to talk from Being rather than self
Pila Mulligan: is there a distinction ?
Adams Rubble: I was looking at Pema funny, something that we can't do too easily here

At the time I was conscious of looking into Pema's eyes and he returning my look, maybe wondering about my funny smile

Adams Rubble: and I was very dubious and a bit resistent
Adams Rubble: As you noted there Pila, I thought I was talking from a higher vantage point
Adams Rubble: but then Fefonz told some stories about acting class where they had to instantly play a role
Adams Rubble: and gave another example which I forgot
Adams Rubble: and I noted that I never had had an expereince like that
Adams Rubble: and then just like that, I could see my "self" resisting Pema's exercise

I could see a fear of not being able to do the exercise

Adams Rubble: It was kind of humbling
Adams Rubble: and I've been slightly unsettled since

At that moment the sun begab to shine into the pavilion

Adams Rubble: but here comes the light :)
Adams Rubble: just on cue
Eos Amaterasu: that's a great story
Eos Amaterasu: how you caught yourself
Adams Rubble: or got caught :)
Pila Mulligan: did Pema elaborate upon the idea?
Adams Rubble: Not too much, with all the discussion we really didn't get the exercise done and time was short
Pila Mulligan: maybe he will have time to do so here eventually
Adams Rubble nods
Adams Rubble: He often proposes impromptu exercises and I have always resisted
Adams Rubble: hehe
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: but the situation did present you with yourself resisting, seemingly, your ability to present, just as, just as, just as, whatever comes up
Eos Amaterasu: here comes the Sun king :-)
Adams Rubble: yes, we'll se what happens nexxt time :)
Eos Amaterasu: Shall we try it here?
Adams Rubble: everyone will know now that I am a resiter :)
Adams Rubble: uh oh
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: talk as if we are Being talking?
Eos Amaterasu: talk as if we are self talking?

Pila gave of the first of three quotes from eastern thinkers, Confucious, about the primal spirit

Pila Mulligan: this statement is attributed to Confucius: "Stop listening with your ears and listen with your mind. Then stop listening with your mind and listen with your primal spirit. Hearing is limited to the ear. Mind is limited to tallying things up. But the primal spirit is empty: it's simply that which awaits things."
Pila Mulligan: the same could be saind of speaking, as well as listneing
Eos Amaterasu: if the gate is open, the wind speaks
Adams Rubble: nice Pila
Adams Rubble: my "self" has already talked of resisting
Adams Rubble: not sure what Being would say through me. Seems Being was speaking through Pila :)
Pila Mulligan: Being would say through anyone just what they say :)
Pila Mulligan: Confucius was speaking thru Pila :)
Adams Rubble: Being noticed that my self was frightened by the experiement
Eos Amaterasu: It's not "Confucius says"....It's "Being sez"
Adams Rubble: was Being speaaking through Confucius?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: well, it seems to me the idea of the exercise was to decrease subjectivity
Pila Mulligan: your subjective self said uh-uh
Pila Mulligan: or oh-oh
Adams Rubble: :)
Eos Amaterasu: expose the self
Eos Amaterasu: which means Being articulated your self to yourself
Eos Amaterasu: there is moment of panic - what will I do/say
Pila Mulligan: ultimately it becomes a very fine point to distinguish Self and Being
Eos Amaterasu: I can't do this
Eos Amaterasu: I'll blow it
Eos Amaterasu: little narratives
Eos Amaterasu: very clingy
Eos Amaterasu: then they blow away momentarily
Adams Rubble nods
Eos Amaterasu: and "spirit" speacks, as Confucius said
Pila Mulligan: the Chinese term 'primary spirit' could be called a term or art -- it is used a lot in Chinese philosophy -- it is something we connect with in the same sense as people use the term enlightenment
Pila Mulligan: primal*
Pila Mulligan: termof art*
Pila Mulligan: of*
Pila Mulligan: mucho typos
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: It is esier to speak as being when someone needs help or support
Eos Amaterasu: then it's not so much about "you"
Adams Rubble: yes!
Eos Amaterasu: and spontaneity (spirit?) can aris appropriately
Adams Rubble: yes
Eos Amaterasu: arise*
Eos Amaterasu: I sometimes wonder, what would there be to say?
Adams Rubble: you man if we just decide here and now to talk as Being
Adams Rubble: ?
Eos Amaterasu: But things arise, and our speech is one of those
Adams Rubble: Pila could quote Confucius, that leaves you and I, Eos :)
Adams Rubble giggles

Then Pila quotes Laoze:

Pila Mulligan: here's another view, from Lao Tse: "Simplify your problems. Mask your brightness. Be at one with the dust of the Earth. This is primal union."
Eos Amaterasu: uh oh!
Adams Rubble: that one needs a bit of commentary for me Pila :)
Adams Rubble: how does one become one with the dust wothout dying?
Pila Mulligan: oh ... it is not self-evident Adams?
Adams Rubble: my self is thinking of dust mites :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: be at one with anything then
Adams Rubble: ah
Pila Mulligan: and try working up to the earth :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pila Mulligan: or down, as the case may be
Adams Rubble: hehe
Adams Rubble: depending where one starts
Adams Rubble: there's a metaphor in there
Adams Rubble: if life is hell :)
Eos Amaterasu: we're kind of presented by being anyway, though we think we're the ones presenting ourselves

and then Lu Dongbin...

Pila Mulligan: now here is a third take from Lu Tung-Pin: "In the midst of primal becoming, the radiance of the Light is the determining thing. In the physical world it is the sun; in man the eye."
Eos Amaterasu: e light en meant
Adams Rubble: :)
Pila Mulligan: so these Chinese ancients are talking about the same idea: primal becoming arises amidst the radiance of light primal union involves simplicity, modesty and being at one primal spirit is empty, it simply awaits things
Pila Mulligan: the primal terminology may relate well to the idea of Being
Eos Amaterasu: related to that is the 3rd (or was it the 6th?) patriarch saying "do not search for the truth - only cease to cherish opinions"

..and then Love

Adams Rubble: It seems not so different from Love
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: I think love and compassion are the next step, actually, Adams
Pila Mulligan: these being close, but a preliminary step
Eos Amaterasu: the groove is in the heart
Pila Mulligan: and int he end day does not come before night or vice versa
Pila Mulligan: the Hindu phrase sat chit ananda can be said to mean bliss results from awareness of reality ...
Pila Mulligan: so we may approach the idea of enlightenment as 'becoming aware of reality' and hopefully find bliss ...
Pila Mulligan: ... and then what?
Pila Mulligan: to me, love and compassion are the answer to then what
Adams Rubble nods
Adams Rubble: Love is a great cure all to much that ails us
Pila Mulligan: it is perhaps the best description of primal spirit
Eos Amaterasu: what is loving from Being?
Pila Mulligan: yep :)
Adams Rubble: I am afraid I am getting very sleepy
Pila Mulligan: :)
Adams Rubble: It has been nice chatting with you both :)
Pila Mulligan: do you want to do the log Adams, or should Eos or I do it?
Eos Amaterasu: thnx, Adams :-)
Adams Rubble: Yep I have it. If you want to talk more I'll get it
Pila Mulligan: ok, sweet dreams :)
Adams Rubble: thanks good night :)

I leave to get some sleep and Eos and Pila continue discussing Being in connection with music

Eos Amaterasu: That was a spectacular dress Adams had!
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Musicians sometimes "play the hall"
Pila Mulligan: did you see Pema's going back to Japan now?
Pila Mulligan: "play the hall" being ...?
Eos Amaterasu: So it seems - you mean long term?
Pila Mulligan: well, he just mentioned he is flying there soon -- seems he travels a lot :)
Eos Amaterasu: Speaking of the Grateful Dead, they would play what was there
Pila Mulligan: ahh
Pila Mulligan: cool
Eos Amaterasu: I also met a violinist who spoke of playing Chartres Cathedral
Pila Mulligan: letting the place do the music
Eos Amaterasu: the space has its character, including the people in it
Pila Mulligan: I like to do that in the forest -- take a drum or a flute and play in repsonse to or with the sounds there
Pila Mulligan: it gets quite high, naturally
Eos Amaterasu: riding the bull playing a flute
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: birds are quite symphonic is a jazz kind of way
Eos Amaterasu: Heidegger says, "language is the clearing of Being"
Eos Amaterasu: language is Being opening up
Pila Mulligan: :) cleaning would almost work there too
Eos Amaterasu: when still, hearing a bird sound can be a great way to catch your mind leaping out
Eos Amaterasu: or being leaped
Pila Mulligan: Lao Tse: "The sage has no mind of his own"
Eos Amaterasu: No matter. Never mind. :-)
Pila Mulligan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILhXlJp2hqE
Pila Mulligan: Jerry Garcia, Tangled Up in Blue
Eos Amaterasu: all I knew how to do, was to keep on keeping on, like a bird that flew, tangled up in blue
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: bodhisattva electric guitar
Pila Mulligan: Barbara Meier: I remember reading Ram Dass describe you as a bodhisattva. Jerry Garcia: He's very kind, but I don't deserve that. I'm just a guy trying to play the right notes, that's all. If I were to think of myself in a spiritual context, however, I'd think of myself as some sort of Buddhist.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I know (knew) Barbara (she was a buddhist)
Pila Mulligan: Barbara Meier: Well, music is your practice. When I hear you in concert, I feel you want to push the energy further and further, taking the crowd along with you. Jerry Garcia: I don't do it consciously.
Pila Mulligan: seems like he was too :)
Pila Mulligan: https://www.tricycle.com/jerry-garci...-barbara-meier
Pila Mulligan: "Barbara and Jerry had this conversation in June of 1991"
Eos Amaterasu: "To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe."
Eos Amaterasu: - J Garcia
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: mountains and rivers
Pila Mulligan: We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
Eos Amaterasu: Speaking from blue
Eos Amaterasu: Great performance :-)
Pila Mulligan: really !
Pila Mulligan: ah, the Revolution :0
Eos Amaterasu: there's acting from Being
Eos Amaterasu: I suppose there's speaking from Being
Eos Amaterasu: there's being enacted by Being
Pila Mulligan: and especially singing form Being
Pila Mulligan: from
Eos Amaterasu: a multi-billion year-old symphoney
Pila Mulligan: the other day a nwebie at Kira was aksing if science has enough of a handle on the idea of time to determine if there is such a thing as non-time
Pila Mulligan: interesting question
Pila Mulligan: no one there knew :)
Eos Amaterasu: Dogen knew :-)
Pila Mulligan: this was for scinetists :)
Pila Mulligan: to do him justice, here is the question as posed: [11:10] Beragon Betts: i have a question about time tho, if that will help [11:11] Beragon Betts: well.... relativity explains gravity as a distortion in the fabric of spacetime by a mass and attempts to harminze relativity with quantum mechanics tries to find a "graviton" particle or quanta of gravity so if gravity can be quantized, can time be quantized? [11:12] Beragon Betts: that is - is there a quanta of time less than which there is not time?
Pila Mulligan: now ins't that a nice question :)
Eos Amaterasu: there's no time to answer that question :-)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: I cna just barely grasp the question, much less imagine an answer
Pila Mulligan: but I'd love to see some phsyicists give it a go
Eos Amaterasu: I think awareness is starting to be discussed as being as primordial as 'space', 'time', 'energy'.... not really reducible
Pila Mulligan: yes, isn't it fun ...to see concepts like entanglement in science
Eos Amaterasu: http://www.twine.com/item/126fbyh1z-...e-and-religion
Eos Amaterasu: Well, l8t, must sleep, thnx for the conversation, Pila!
Pila Mulligan: thanks Eos, it was fun
Pila Mulligan: sleep well
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!