The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Bleu Oleander, Korel Laloix, Santoshima Resident, Xirana Oximoxi and myself

Weather and introductions:

Zen Arado: Hi Korel
Zen Arado: Hi Santo
Santoshima Resident: and hi Korel :)
Zen Arado: think she's away
Santoshima Resident: oh
Santoshima Resident: how are you, Zen?
Zen Arado: not bad ty
Zen Arado: and you?
Santoshima Resident: pretty ok
Zen Arado: it's cold here
Santoshima Resident: yes?
Zen Arado: had snow on hills
Santoshima Resident: snow yet, ice?
Zen Arado: not at low level yet
Santoshima Resident: hmmm
Santoshima Resident: same here
Santoshima Resident: mountains north of the city covered
Santoshima Resident: feels like snow below
Santoshima Resident: and smells
Zen Arado: Vancouver?
Santoshima Resident: hi Korel
Santoshima Resident: yes, Vancouver
Zen Arado: Hi Korel
Zen Arado: it doesn't get too cold there
Zen Arado: ?
Zen Arado: bit lie UK climate
Zen Arado: like
Santoshima Resident: well, it gets cold for about 2 months
Santoshima Resident: and moreso over the many years i've been here
Santoshima Resident: winter has snow blizzards
Santoshima Resident: sometimes in Feb
Santoshima Resident: snow comes, and maybe lasts fora couple weeks
Zen Arado: not like Winnipeg though?
Santoshima Resident: not like Winnipeg
Santoshima Resident: there: it's a deep freeze, and dry
Santoshima Resident: here, ocean-air, wet cold
Zen Arado: we had snow arounnd this time last two years
Santoshima Resident: yeah?
Zen Arado: unusual though
Santoshima Resident: right
Santoshima Resident: what palce are you living? if you care to say
Zen Arado: Carrickfergus, N.Ireland
Zen Arado: Hi Xirana :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Zen, Korel, San :)
Santoshima Resident: hello Xirana :)
Santoshima Resident: how are you both, Korel, Xirana?
Xirana Oximoxi: I am fine ty:) wonderful weather and a lot of work at the end of the semester of my studies...I am stressed :))

Carrickfergus:

Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE3dH7xKykc
Zen Arado: our song
Zen Arado: study sure is stressful
Xirana Oximoxi: so nice song Zen!!
Santoshima Resident: how beautiful, Zen ...
Zen Arado: the town where I live
Xirana Oximoxi: is it a traditional Irish song?
Santoshima Resident: the song and the images,
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...images too... relaxing :)
Zen Arado: it has a history
Zen Arado: the song I mean
Santoshima Resident: yes?
Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrickfergus_%28song%29
Santoshima Resident: it has a very old ballad feel ... carries a lot
Zen Arado: yo would think someone was homesick and sat down and wrote the song but life is never as simple :)
Santoshima Resident: yes, there are different streams in it
Zen Arado: the name means Rock of Fergus
Zen Arado: Fergus was a Scorttish king who came to dring at a spring there

Castles and their purpose:

Zen Arado: the Castle is built on an outcrop of rock
Zen Arado: dates back to 1180
Zen Arado: a Norman castle
Xirana Oximoxi: :) quite ancient:)
Xirana Oximoxi: in Spain near all so old castles were destroyd... they were a fortified place for 'robbers' :)... but there are still some on
Xirana Oximoxi: robbers= thiefs
Santoshima Resident: thank you for that ~ rock of Fergus ... is the castle accessible to people now, Zen?
Santoshima Resident: do local people go there?
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Bleu:)
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu :)
Santoshima Resident: hi Bleu :)
Zen Arado: oh yes it is a big draw for tourists
Zen Arado: they have a medieval banquet in it every year
Zen Arado: Lugnasa
Zen Arado: http://www.discovernorthernireland.c...ckfergus-P2814
Zen Arado: it was a military garrison
Zen Arado: there is a virtual visit on that page
Zen Arado: I think it looks ugly
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Zen Arado: not a thing of beauty
Santoshima Resident: yeah, can't imagine that type of building being built for any other purpose.
Zen Arado: squat and menacing as it says there
Santoshima Resident: the building ugly, zen? or the web page?
Santoshima Resident: oh
Zen Arado: the castle
Santoshima Resident: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: welll ..sometimes they were the only place for poeple to be sure
Xirana Oximoxi: whe pirats came
Zen Arado: yes ensured safety I guess
Santoshima Resident: yes, in Spain, Xirana, who destoryed the ancient castles?
Santoshima Resident: destroyed
Santoshima Resident: as you said ...
Bleu Oleander: that's what fortresses were for? protection? not beauty?
Xirana Oximoxi: usually the autorities... the kings... they were not able to get in and catch the bandits, and the best solution they found was to drestroy it completely ...
Zen Arado: hmmm interesting Xirana
Zen Arado: I thouhgt they were for protecting armies
Zen Arado: robbers must have used them after
Xirana Oximoxi: also there were always wars between the different territories
Xirana Oximoxi: yes... that was after...
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: waves of invaders
Zen Arado: towns had walls fro protection

Xenophobia:

Bleu Oleander: xenophobia
Zen Arado: well invaders were a real threat then I think
Xirana Oximoxi: yes... and also a matter of religion... catholic church against 'catars? a new branch of the religion that critiziced the behaviour of catholics...
Santoshima Resident: cathars? like in france?
Xirana Oximoxi: yes... there were also some in the noord of catalonia (I think)...
Bleu Oleander: fear of foreigners or strangers ... fear of those different from us .... walls protect "us" from "them"
Santoshima Resident: especially if the other intend to do bodily harm ...
Bleu Oleander: how we define "us" ... how wide is our "us" ...
Santoshima Resident: big stone walls, the order of the day
Zen Arado: yes...the word xenophobia seems to relate to an irrational fear nowadays
Zen Arado: but it was real then
Bleu Oleander: xenophobia is real now too
Santoshima Resident: yes
Santoshima Resident: it is
Santoshima Resident: genocide real now, too
Bleu Oleander: yes, the more we recognize it the better we can be to work on reducing it
Zen Arado: 'In May 1315 Edward Bruce, brother of the legendary Scottish king Robert, landed at Olderfleet near Larne and besieged the castle for over a year. Three years later, the English army defeated Bruce at the Battle of Foghart near Dundalk, Co Louth. In retreat the Scottish soldiers laid waste to the town and countryside of Carrickfergus. The town was again razed in 1386 and 1402, destroying much of the original settlement. '
Zen Arado: must have been tough those days
Santoshima Resident: yeah,
Bleu Oleander: we are having a big symposium on xenophobia this spring
Zen Arado: now we worry about the economy :)
Santoshima Resident: where, Bleu?
Zen Arado: oh say more Bkeu?
Bleu Oleander: at ARizona State Univ in Tempe, AZ
Santoshima Resident: hmm, can you send an info link to web if there is one?
Bleu Oleander: there will be a public panel discussion as well
Zen Arado: well it is justified in some cases ?
Bleu Oleander: http://origins.asu.edu/events/xenophobia/
Santoshima Resident: thanks, bleu
Zen Arado: ty Bleu
Santoshima Resident: this looks great
Bleu Oleander: we'll be involved with several of the events
Bleu Oleander: so yes, should be great
Santoshima Resident: who is "we"?
Bleu Oleander: my arts and cultural group
Santoshima Resident: ah
Zen Arado: I read that originally humans lived in groups of about 150 people and it was healthy to fear other groups
Xirana Oximoxi: sounds really interesting
Bleu Oleander: my husband and I direct it
Santoshima Resident: the arts and cultural group? or the forum?
Bleu Oleander: the arts and cultural group
Santoshima Resident: hmm
Bleu Oleander: Phoenix based
Santoshima Resident: a lot of preparation to do for such an event
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: http://origins.asu.edu/ is the oganization putting on the symposium
Xirana Oximoxi: human's group`s were fighting to get the basic to live... hunting... but humanity shuld have changed some of this behaviour if it's possible... or maybe we are still fighting for this?
Santoshima Resident: 150 people, Zen, seems village-sized / maybe a few extended families
Xirana Oximoxi: oops, sorry
Santoshima Resident: np :)
Zen Arado: np
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Zen Arado: it was a book called Buddha's Brain
Santoshima Resident: hmm
Zen Arado: I forget the details but it was a good size for survival at that stage
Zen Arado: hhunter gatherers
Zen Arado: but we still have these tendencies and that is maladaptive nowadays
Santoshima Resident: yes
Zen Arado: when we have to live in large groups
Bleu Oleander: in some sense every stage of survival has been successful ... here we are
Zen Arado: and with other nationalities
Zen Arado: eventually we will adapt again I guess
Zen Arado: but will have trouble until we do
Zen Arado: yes Bleu
Zen Arado: we made it so far
Zen Arado: maybe we have been too successful
Zen Arado: increased too fast
Bleu Oleander: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/bo...pagewanted=all
Bleu Oleander: great new book
Bleu Oleander: a more positive view

Are we brutal in essence?

Zen Arado: if you look back at the brutality of the past we seem remarkably peaceful now
Bleu Oleander: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._a_chance.html
Xirana Oximoxi: thanks Bleu... I'll read it later:)... the introoductions sets a question I sometimes ask myself, are we humans voiollent in essence?
Xirana Oximoxi: violent*
Zen Arado: (life was) 'nasty ,poor brutish and short ' as Hobbes said
Bleu Oleander: yes
Santoshima Resident: thanks, Bleu ~ will read more fully later
Xirana Oximoxi: Zen..I don't see paceful at all now...and plus, we have information about all corners of the world
Zen Arado: true Xirana but in relation to the past
Xirana Oximoxi: worse now... because weapons are more powerful
Zen Arado: think of WW1 and 2
Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh ok!!
Santoshima Resident: perhaps just the means of injury is different
Santoshima Resident: more efficient
Santoshima Resident: and hidden
Zen Arado: potential is there for such annihilation though
Bleu Oleander: the essence of Pinker's book is that we are becoming less violent
Xirana Oximoxi: that was absolutely terrible Zen, you are right
Zen Arado: we are fed a diet of how bad things are by the media
Bleu Oleander: fear based control
Zen Arado: and there is still brutality
Santoshima Resident: without a doubt
Zen Arado: even crime punishments were so brutal
Zen Arado: boiling in oil for sheep stealing
Xirana Oximoxi: I must go now... thanks for all this interesting information you've shared :)
Zen Arado: or hanging for same offence
Bleu Oleander: bye Xirana
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you!
Xirana Oximoxi: bye tc all :)
Zen Arado: bye Xirana :)
Santoshima Resident: take good care, ZXirana ~ all best with the final days of the term
Santoshima Resident: i better go too ~ thanks for this conversation
Bleu Oleander: me too
Zen Arado: ok ty for coming San
Bleu Oleander: bye everyone ... take care
Zen Arado: bye Bleu
Zen Arado: byee everyone
Santoshima Resident: byee Zen
Santoshima Resident: bye Korel :)