2013.12.01 13:00 – Guilt, assisted living and cold moss

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Heya!
Bruce Mowbray: all alone today?
Aphrodite Macbain: I seem to be
Bruce Mowbray: Here comes Woly.
Aphrodite Macbain: surrounded by verdant forest
Bruce Mowbray: Isn't it beautiful?!
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- who did this?
Bruce Mowbray: The forest right across the road is like this.
Bruce Mowbray: including the steam....
Bruce Mowbray: I don't know, but whoever it was did a good job.
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe it was Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: but now it has snow?
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Woly, and welcome back home!
Wol Euler: hello aph, bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: thanks
Wol Euler: it’s good to be back
Bruce Mowbray: (my forest does have snow, but not this one, obviously.)
Aphrodite Macbain: from New York?
Bruce Mowbray: no, from her family in Canada.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Wol Euler smiles.
Aphrodite Macbain: How was the visit Wol?
Wol Euler: well, the New York part was wonderful, but the Toronto part was awful
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh?
Bruce Mowbray: ohhhh. so sorry.....
Wol Euler: moving my father into a nursing home
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
Wol Euler: yeah
Wol Euler: nobody was especially happy about that
Aphrodite Macbain: He doesn't like it there?
Wol Euler: short answer: no
Aphrodite Macbain: Then that must have been hard for everyone
Wol Euler: the trouble with nursing homes is that they are full of people who need to be in nursing homes
Aphrodite Macbain: guilt + resentment + fear
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: he is the youngest and healthiest person there, unfortunately
Wol Euler: unfortunately for him being there, I mean
Aphrodite Macbain: my mother loves where she lives - but she's 90. She has lots of friends and activities

Wol Euler: he doesn't actually need the quality or amount of care they are offering
Aphrodite Macbain: was there nowhere else he could go that offered less care?
Wol Euler: I don't know. I'm not sure whether that was clear to Mom when she made the arrangements
Wol Euler: (it wasn't clear to me as we started the process)
Aphrodite Macbain: that must have been a hard decision for her
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe she'll move there at a certain stage
Aphrodite Macbain: and they can share a place
Wol Euler: hopefully not for many years, she is still in fine shape
Bruce Mowbray: In Canada, are nursing home expenses paid for by the state (as with medical care). . . ?
Wol Euler: only up to a certain limit per month, bruce, and this is over that
Bruce Mowbray: I see. Ty.
Aphrodite Macbain: I think it varies from province to province
Bruce Mowbray: hmmm.
Wol Euler: he doesn't actually need a nursing home (yet), what he needs is a retirement place with lots of care
Wol Euler:"assisted living"
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Wol Euler: but I don't know if that exists in Ontario, or if they can afford it
Aphrodite Macbain: there are places like that
Wol Euler: on the other hand, it was absolutely necessary for Mom's health to move him out of the home
Bruce Mowbray: You - or someone in your family - had to research this, didn't you Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: My parents moved to one 10 years ago. On certain floors it was assisted living and on another floors the care was increased
Wol Euler: so if he is getting more care than he needs in a place that is devoted to nearly zombified patients, so be it
Bruce Mowbray: and they are both in Toronto, right?
Wol Euler: mmhm
Bruce Mowbray: (that was to Aph.)
Wol Euler: sorry
Aphrodite Macbain: No, Kanata, Ontario. It's too bad your parents can’t move into a place with less nursing care
Bruce Mowbray: (no, I am sry.)
Wol Euler smiles.
Aphrodite Macbain: or a community where people took care of each other

Bruce Mowbray: I mean, didn't you have to check out all that assisted living stuff with your folks, Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: They did the research themselves when they were in their early 80s
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Bruce Mowbray: That sounds like the best way to do it.
Aphrodite Macbain: fortunately there was a place in Kanata (near Ottawa) that had two types of care
Aphrodite Macbain: The idea being that when more acute care was needed they would move to the 2nd floor which had more nursing facilities which is where my mum lives now
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I know of such facilities in Dayton, Ohio.
Bruce Mowbray: same sort of set-up.

Aphrodite Macbain: I'm surprised that Toronto doesn't have such a mixed use facility
Bruce Mowbray: so husband and wife are still relatively close to each other....
Wol Euler: I'm sure it does. I'm not sure that Mom thought to ask for one
Bruce Mowbray: My typist's problem with this stuff is that he loads all sorts of GUILT upon himself about his parents -- and I have to remind him that there is NOTHING for him to feel guilty about.
Bruce Mowbray: It does take him a while to un-load it, though.
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: that seems very natural to me, bruce
Bruce Mowbray: yes, that's what I tell him. But I also remind him that it is NOT necessary.....
Bruce Mowbray: Acceptance of thing as they are, I tell him.

Guilt

Aphrodite Macbain: I think guilt is hardwired into us
Bruce Mowbray: It sure seems to be hardwired into HIM!
Aphrodite Macbain: we learn it from an early age and it seems to bypass reason
Bruce Mowbray: but I just attended an excellent class on "re-wiring" our epigenetic codes....
Wol Euler: is it pure guilt or is it a frustrated impulse to care?
Wol Euler: (to give care and attention)
Aphrodite Macbain: please say more Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: It's a mixture of things -- including that frustration, I'm sure, Wol.
Bruce Mowbray: It was one of Seth Haalan's classes, Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: an excellent one today -
Bruce Mowbray: about DUALITY.
Bruce Mowbray: and it really makes good sense...
Aphrodite Macbain: But you both DO care, it's just that you don’t know what action is appropriate
Bruce Mowbray: that well, I won’t go into all of it now.
Aphrodite Macbain: kk
Bruce Mowbray: It is a mixture of impulses, sensations, thoughts, moods, and memories.... and sorting them all out is impossible -- and unnecessary.
Aphrodite Macbain: So many new choices are thrown at us these days, so much information that our emotions can’t catch up!
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: The thing my typist needs to understand and appreciate is this: there is NO duality. He and his parents are ONE being, not three.... and I know that sounds crazy, but it would help him to be sane if he understood that better, i feel.
Aphrodite Macbain: we sometimes don’t know how to respond to a situation
Aphrodite Macbain: we have had no previous training on what to feel, what to do
Bruce Mowbray: We don't?
Aphrodite Macbain: not when it comes to dealing with specifics like this
Bruce Mowbray: (I WISH!)
Aphrodite Macbain: we just feel frustrated, inadequate and guilty!
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: My typist seems sometimes to be locked into top-down thinking. . .
Bruce Mowbray: if he didn't receive "training" about things, then he's helpless.
Bruce Mowbray: But i know otherwise.
Bruce Mowbray: I'm a bottom-up, situational sort of dude myself.
Aphrodite Macbain: seems your typist is aware of this- which is a start :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that is encouraging, Aph.

Wol Euler: hello berti
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bert!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hell Bert. Welcome
Aphrodite Macbain: you came to us before we go to you
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) and we will surely be going to you, Bert!
Bruce Mowbray: in 20 minutes, to be exact.

Wol Euler: hello? bertram? anybody there?

Bruce Mowbray: Waves are Berti again --
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. yes. but sry : how can i explain that ? ... i wanted to go to pp, but chose last location -re ... *blush* and that had been he
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: no worries
Bruce Mowbray: Is PP not open today?
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps rolling restart?
Bruce Mowbray: oooooh. choose last location.
Bruce Mowbray: I'VE DONE THAT!
Bertram Jacobus: ty - and i have to prepare things - sore - who likes it , in around 20 minutes ... *wave*e you the se
Wol Euler: bye for now, berti
Bruce Mowbray: bye for now!
Aphrodite Macbain: I know things are changing at PP
Bertram Jacobus: ty friends and enjoy pls !
Bruce Mowbray: They are?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bruce Mowbray: c ya in a few, Bert!
Aphrodite Macbain: The newsgroup has been cancelled.
Aphrodite Macbain: Girish is leaving
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.....
Aphrodite Macbain: Mira has been making changes...
Aphrodite Macbain: but I only have a small part of the story
Bruce Mowbray ponders: Everything changes.....

Aphrodite Macbain: Talking about it with others helps though, don't you think?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, if you can find sane people to discuss it with, yes, discussion helps.
Bruce Mowbray: It helps us see that we make our own worlds....
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry things are bad at home Wol. What do you plan for Christmas?
Wol Euler: going back for ten days
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope your dad can join the rest of the family for Christmas

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Woly! Does this scenery remind you of Windhorse, or what!?
Wol Euler: yes, it does :) but also of Kyoto gardens

Aphrodite Macbain: lots of moss..

Bruce Mowbray wants to get naked and roll in the moss.....

Aphrodite Macbain: agrees the moss looks inviting but imagines it a bit cold and wet
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

Wol Euler: but will NOT stay outside overnight
Wol Euler: he will have a day out or two with us, yes
Wol Euler: even if I have to beat them both with sticks
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm
Wol Euler smiles.
Aphrodite Macbain: I am sure the home he’s in will do something festive...
Wol Euler: well, yes, but he's one of the very few non-zombies there.
Aphrodite Macbain: ukk
Wol Euler: the majority of the people don't or cannot speak, cannot feed themselves
Aphrodite Macbain: are they all on meds?
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps your dad would appreciate being part of the decision about what to do....
Bruce Mowbray: on Christmas, I mean.

Aphrodite Macbain: It sounds like he has definitely been put in the wrong place Wol
Wol Euler: bruce, the problem is that he cannot be. He has no memory, he cannot remember the end of a ten word long sentence as he tries to speak it
Bruce Mowbray: I understand.
Aphrodite Macbain: He has Alzheimer's?
Bruce Mowbray: but he does have long-term memories?
Wol Euler: no, vascular degeneration
Wol Euler: he's losing them too
Bruce Mowbray: a form of dementia, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm so sorry.
Wol Euler: he knows who we are but if you ask him to name his children, he can't
Aphrodite Macbain: long term memory only...
Wol Euler: though he can address me by name when we meet
Bruce Mowbray: The senses helped us learn those things.
Aphrodite Macbain: the coating of the nerves is worn thin... synapses don’t happen
Bruce Mowbray ponders home movies, photos, albums....
Aphrodite Macbain: So this means he can't read...
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: he can't follow the plot of a TV show
Wol Euler: so he watches sports
Wol Euler: endlessly
Bruce Mowbray: moment-by-moment "reality."
Wol Euler: yeah
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope he likes music
Wol Euler: actually no, he can't stand it now
Wol Euler: I think it confuses him
Wol Euler: (7 minutes to berti)
Aphrodite Macbain: what does give him pleasure?
Wol Euler: hmmmmmm
Wol Euler: damned good question, aph
Bruce Mowbray: When my typist first got out of the hospital - just about the time that he met Wol, actually - he could not stand to listen to music. He had to learn how to listen to music all over again.
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps he can enjoy things that don’t require memory - like food or affection

Wol Euler: not even food, alas, he has difficulty swallowing
Aphrodite Macbain: argh

Bruce Mowbray: Amazing how plastic the brain can be -- even the old brain - like my typist's.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: It sounded to him like someone throwing garbage cans around.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods. I'm watching mine at work as I study philosophy
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe watching dance... movement on the screen like hockey players

Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what it is about music....

Bruce Mowbray: It's really about the hearing process - and the brain's being able to interpret STRANGE signals from the ears....
Bruce Mowbray: (at least in my typist's case it was.)
Bruce Mowbray: My typist also had to learn the differences between consonant sounds.... but his brain is still supple.
Bruce Mowbray: really strange at first.

Aphrodite Macbain: Glad Berti found his place
Bruce Mowbray: Bruce Mowbray thinks he will scoot along to Berti's now.
Bruce Mowbray: THANK YOU, Aph and Wol!
Wol Euler: yes, it's time
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks all
Wol Euler: sorry to bring such a hard subject
Aphrodite Macbain: I may get back to writing my essay on Morality!
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: have fun