2009.06.09 13:00 - Let the sun do the work
The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard. The comments are by Mickorod Renard.
We all get into discussing about a dead bit of wood
Gaya Ethaniel: Mick how is your exploration going? Still looking at intoxication?
Mickorod Renard: erm
Mickorod Renard: I havnt been doing much other than work and writing the scribe
Questa Blackheart: 'scuse me. Got to make some adjustments.
Mickorod Renard: Mickorod Renard: I havnt been doing much other than work and writing the scribe
Mickorod Renard: I still cannot give up the cigars Gaya
Mickorod Renard: how about you Gaya? are you doing something re Stims?
Mickorod Renard: how are you sophia?
sophia Placebo: alive :) how are you ?
Mickorod Renard: your jumper looks warm..
Mickorod Renard: alive?..I guess thats a good start
sophia Placebo: i like the color , this is the good thing about sl , no weather
Questa Blackheart: Do you mean Alive! or just alive?
Mickorod Renard: I feel half dead
sophia Placebo: i used to say that , just alive like breathing and such
Questa Blackheart: Lack of sleep Mick, or something worse?
Mickorod Renard: I was hoping work would ease off now the exams are finnished
Questa Blackheart: I'm old enough that I probably am half dead. :)
sophia Placebo: hehe
Mickorod Renard: I have been doing the scribe,,and it was nice to be reminded of your session re quoran
Mickorod Renard: It was very interesting
sophia Placebo: yeah i enjoy it too
sophia Placebo: too many points too many topics
Mickorod Renard: ou are having another session I hope?
sophia Placebo: im stil thinking about pema question : about what do you see in empty dead peice of wood
Mickorod Renard: wow
sophia Placebo: yes supose to be with wol
Mickorod Renard: cool
Mickorod Renard: what do you mean re the question?
Questa Blackheart: But a dead piece of wood isn't empty.
Mickorod Renard: its a whole new world
Questa Blackheart: It contains grain and structure and a reminder of what it was.
Mickorod Renard: sometimes with insects living in
sophia Placebo: yep and it still can yeild energy
Questa Blackheart: Sure. It's a home to something, probably.
Questa Blackheart: Yes, if you burn it. :)
Mickorod Renard: and,,it was storing the suns energy, from when it was created
Questa Blackheart: And it has the potential to make paper.
Questa Blackheart: It would be easy to get carried away with that question. :)
sophia Placebo: hehe :)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,because eventually it will disintegrate and become something new
sophia Placebo: i was talking with real life freind about this session and told her the question then she said : poeple forget what they have and dont notice they are a sign not only a peice of wood
Mickorod Renard: where are you from Questa?
Questa Blackheart: England.
Mickorod Renard: me too
Gaya Ethaniel: It's still all grey ... I only see part of what you guys are saying :( 1 pm sessions are not good for me to attend anymore ... good night.
Mickorod Renard: I thought 'sign 'was an evokative word now?
Questa Blackheart: Really? I guess this is time for most Europeans.
sophia Placebo: what do you mean mick ?
Mickorod Renard: well,,after the session where signs and symbols were discussed
Mickorod Renard: the one you did with Pema
Mickorod Renard: but sign, yes,,that it is dead?
Mickorod Renard: I suppose one day I wud see the wood and say,,hey,,thats ok for my fire
Questa Blackheart: Surely a piece of wood being a sign is just our interpretation of it. It doesn't have any "intention" of being a sign.
Mickorod Renard: and another day I would say
Mickorod Renard: wow,,that wood is a message,,about me dying one day,,and yet,,i will return to the earth and become usefull in otherways
sophia Placebo: hehe :)
Mickorod Renard: grin
Questa Blackheart: :-)
Mickorod Renard: I think we think too much
sophia Placebo: we worry too much
sophia Placebo: think too much is controversial
Questa Blackheart: Yes, I'm quite concerned about that.
Mickorod Renard: this thing about meditation is interesting
Mickorod Renard: there seems to be diferent concepts
Mickorod Renard: some use it as a means to ponder (think)over issues
Mickorod Renard: others as a way of stopping thought,,and just being
Questa Blackheart: How do you do that levitation Sophia?
Questa Blackheart: Meditation?
Mickorod Renard: he he
sophia Placebo: what meditation you mean questa?
Questa Blackheart: I just saw you float a few feet off the ground.
Questa Blackheart: I thought it might be an effect of meditation.
Questa Blackheart: :)
sophia Placebo: hehe :) i dont know , it is sl tricks
Questa Blackheart: It's doing strange things tonight.
Mickorod Renard: yes,,so far i am ok
Mickorod Renard: what you been up to Ken?
Mickorod Renard: been around some religious sites?
kenji Pookes: Installed a rain barrel at my house.
Mickorod Renard: lol,environmental?
Mickorod Renard: or survival?
kenji Pookes: Environmental. I live in a city.
Mickorod Renard: he he ,,ok
What would we do without sun and rain?
Mickorod Renard: do you get much rain?
kenji Pookes: Austin, Texas does not get a great deal of rain. I'm not sure of annual rainfall, but it isn't a huge amount. We are about a 2 hour drive fromthe desert.
Mickorod Renard: wow
Mickorod Renard: I remember being in the Negev dessert after some rainfall,,and was amazed how many plants sprouted up
kenji Pookes: The dessert in Texas is not as barron. There are low scrub brush and things like that, but the plant life is sparse. However, when it rains, there are enormous amounts of flowers.
Mickorod Renard: yes,,same as Negev,,lots of lil flowers
sophia Placebo loves desert after rain
Mickorod Renard: yes,,how many times do you get Sophia?
kenji Pookes: I do too, particualrly chocolate cake.
Mickorod Renard: rain that is
sophia Placebo: a few times , depends on many life factors time , not from poeple who camps in desert almost each year , just a short visits from time to time
kenji Pookes: The city I live in , Austin, provides rebates for the purchase of rain barrels. It also will subsidize the installation of solar panels by about 60%. I have a 3000kw sytem on my roof.
Questa Blackheart: I've been to the Negev, unfortunately not after rain.
Mickorod Renard: thats amazing KEn
kenji Pookes: Actually, it is becomming quite common in the US.
Mickorod Renard: is it a large sized item?
kenji Pookes: You mean th solar panels?
Mickorod Renard: yes
sophia Placebo: here the solar panels burns from heat
kenji Pookes: They cover my entire second story roof.
Questa Blackheart: Excellent Kenji. I don't think solar panels are such good value for money in the UK.
Mickorod Renard: wow
Mickorod Renard: I was thinking of some in my next house
sophia Placebo: good amount of electricity kenji?
kenji Pookes: I spend about $7/month on electricity now--down from about $70.
Mickorod Renard: lol,,incredible
Mickorod Renard: what about water heating?
sophia Placebo: great
kenji Pookes: The system is tied to the electrical grid, so when it produces more power than we need, it sells it back to the city.
Questa Blackheart: Does it still work well in the winter?
kenji Pookes: The city will subsidize solar hot water heaters as well.
Mickorod Renard: fantastic,,was this idea in place before obama?
kenji Pookes: It does here in Austin because we dont' get a lot of rain in the winter, either.
kenji Pookes: Yes this was in place before Obama.
kenji Pookes: Several other cities in the US are doing something similar, although Austin is fairly advanced on this. It is becoming more common in California and other sunny places.
sophia Placebo thinking about the untolrable hot water in summer and the need fpr further solar water heater
Mickorod Renard: I see he is trying to integrate the national grid more efficiently too
kenji Pookes: A lot of things are going on. We can now get $1500 tax credits for installing energy-efficient hot water heaters, furnaces, or air conditioners.
Mickorod Renard: us brits often wonder why the hot middle east or noth african countries dont use their sun to generate electricity
kenji Pookes: YEs, that is odd.
Mickorod Renard: thats a great move Ken
sophia Placebo: it burns
Mickorod Renard: can it not be protected some
kenji Pookes: The dessert has a lot of wind in Texas so we now have large wind farms in the western part of the state. All of the energy for my hosue comes from either our solar panels or the wind farms in the west.
Mickorod Renard: thats wonderful,,,,the use of renewable sourses is fantastic
sophia Placebo: i dont know , my brother is studying that in us university , he reviw the tests and reserchs done here , he said the weather is the main obstacle
kenji Pookes: I think 10 years from now the US will be much more self-sufficient in terms of energy.
kenji Pookes: What US university?
Mickorod Renard: the uk has sea around it,,and much tidal energy,,this I think is where we have to look for it
kenji Pookes: It's kind of hard to generalize about the weather in the US--it's a somewhat large place...
sophia Placebo: but here we dont spend alot on research cuz we still not industrlizing country , consuming and oil one only , hopefully soon some sane person would change that
kenji Pookes: What country are you in Sophia?
sophia Placebo: i agree kenji
sophia Placebo: saudi arabia
kenji Pookes: Well, you have a bit of oil there.
Mickorod Renard: nice foot massage of the shoulders
arabella Ella: apologies for being so late but it has been a really long day
sophia Placebo: some southern state university forget the name , near to mexico
Mickorod Renard: its ok,,just chatting
Mickorod Renard: mainly about new power sourses..like kens solar pannels
kenji Pookes: TExas borders Mexico, so he could be here.
arabella Ella desperately needs to chill ...
Mickorod Renard: chill Ara
arabella Ella: yes i will ...
Mickorod Renard: Ara would like some solar panels
arabella Ella: yes i would but the problem is
arabella Ella: they are not feasible for one person households
kenji Pookes: WHy not?
arabella Ella: which is a pity
Mickorod Renard: Hi Taliesin
arabella Ella: i have asked lots of ppl into green sources of energy
arabella Ella: too expensive to be feasible for a single person household
arabella Ella: hey ... good to c u again :)
kenji Pookes: I was explaining that my citiy subsidizes installation of solar panels. This reduces the cost by about 60%.
kenji Pookes: Actually, you all might find this interesting. I think the politicians in my city were quite brilliant about the solar panels. they realized that we would need a new large power plant in the near future, because Austin is growing very fast. They decided that instead of building a polluting power plant, they would heavily subsidize the installation of solar panels on homes and businesses. The only requirement is that they be tied to the electricity grid. In essence, they decided to turn the rooftops of the city's buildings into a huge power plant.
Mickorod Renard: while there is mist over the pool,,we just sit and chill for 90 seconds Tal
Taliesin Freund: k
arabella Ella: fantastic idea kenji
arabella Ella: i thought of that as communal sharing of energy would be feasible
kenji Pookes: Much to my surprise, not all politicians are idiots.
Ara finds her own source of energy
arabella Ella: but ffor the moment i had best just listen as i got myself my dinner and am starving
sophia Placebo: hehe
arabella Ella: so i will listen and eat my spagetti with red chili peppers
Mickorod Renard: wow,,well they may find a way of spoiling it yet,,but so far it looks good Ken
Mickorod Renard: yummy Ara
arabella Ella: u bet
sophia Placebo: i hope one day there would be no idiot politician , that would be a relief
kenji Pookes: It is still only moderately successful, because the cost is still high. The system on my house still required about $9,000 out of pocket.
kenji Pookes: Don't hold your breath, Sophia.
arabella Ella: fm who?
arabella Ella: who paid?
Mickorod Renard: thats your contribution Ken?
kenji Pookes: That is my contribution. The city and the federal government paid the remaining $19,000.
Mickorod Renard: but I bet you would recoup that if you sold your house?
arabella Ella: but ... its a year's salary for quite a few ppl
kenji Pookes: I would, and I will recoup the cost in savings on my energy bill in a few years.
Mickorod Renard: yes
kenji Pookes: That is a problem, Ara, but we have to do something.
Mickorod Renard: I guess the aim would be that all new houses have them from new
arabella Ella: yes ken i agree my point is that one must be able to afford the expense and many cant
kenji Pookes: That really needs to happen. We are now seeing the beginnings of green housing being built here in Austin.
sophia Placebo: that would need to be a cheap solar panel mick
arabella Ella: my solution is
arabella Ella: to have solar panels for a whole street to share
arabella Ella: on our flat roofs
sophia Placebo: no earth warming problems ?
kenji Pookes: There are some researchers working on a spray to put on various objects that works just like solar panels at my university. It would drop the cost to almost noghitn if they can make it work.
Mickorod Renard: well,,most homes in the west are expensive,,the price of solar panels would no doubt come down if demand is greater
Mickorod Renard: then the price would be relative to cost of home
kenji Pookes: Prices are dropping. Actually, the solar panel market is very tight right now. We put our panels on in September and there was a shortage of panels.
Mickorod Renard: environmental conservation companies are hinted at being the next replacement for investment,,to replace oil investment
kenji Pookes: THat's already happening in the US. We are seeing an emergence of green companies.
kenji Pookes: In fact, "green" has become quite popular for selling things. We a seeing green soap, laundry detergent, etc.
lets do some politics
arabella Ella: but then why do ppl in the US denigrate Al Gore so much and say climate change is a 'myth'?
kenji Pookes: The rain barrel I installed is made out of recycled plastic.
kenji Pookes: Ara, you just generalized about 300 million people. Some do, a lot don't/
arabella Ella: media ken ...
Mickorod Renard: I dont think terror is the way forward,,it would create mass hysteria,,and be counterproductive Ara
kenji Pookes: The media seems to be pushing hard in the direction of environmental care, actually. The conservative media, does not believe we are damaging the environment, so they don't like Gore. It's a free country, so both sides get to air their viewpoints.
kenji Pookes: And both do.
kenji Pookes: A lot.
arabella Ella: the way i see it tho is
arabella Ella: the ppl in the US with some sense see things in the right way
arabella Ella: but they are not much listened to by the media
Mickorod Renard: I get the feeling that some sort of 'end time' will come about,,but maybe then a new way of existance will emerge from the debris
arabella Ella: like the anti bush brigade ... who did not have much of a voice on the media until obaama came alone
arabella Ella: alng
arabella Ella: along
kenji Pookes: I'm not sure which media you are talking about. In general, the conservatives complain that the media are extremely liberal.
arabella Ella: sorry that's my spagetti problem .. my spelling
arabella Ella: i personally dont think your media is liberal at all
arabella Ella: and that is why as a conseuencve joe public is so inward looking
kenji Pookes: Maybe not, but the conservatives do.
Mickorod Renard: the media in the uk is too liberal
kenji Pookes: The media should be neither liberal, nor conservative. They should just report facts.
Mickorod Renard: facts,,but also in a sensible way
arabella Ella: first of all i dont think media in UK are liberal - they are sensationalist to sell their product
arabella Ella: secondly - what are 'facts'? raw facts dont exist as you argued yesterday
kenji Pookes: Well, it's difficult to determin what sensible is. All media have to be concerned about sellingtheir product.
Mickorod Renard: thats what I meant by liberal,,too liberal to the point of being sensationalist
kenji Pookes: Basically, I think the best situation is to have media that are on the conservative side and on the liberal side; the truth, such as it is, will probably lie somewhere in between.
Mickorod Renard: having a media outlet is a responsibility too,
kenji Pookes: The media in the US are supposed to be gadflies, creating problems for the government. THey have not done that very well over the past eight or more years.
arabella Ella: yes the media dont seem to realise the ginormous influence they have
Mickorod Renard: by writing in a certain way,,even reporting twisted facts,,can bring a country to its knee's..thats not responsible
arabella Ella: and in the UK mick all your media has an agenda ... and that is to raise viewship or readership
Mickorod Renard: yes,,and several have political allegencies
arabella Ella: finished my spagetti ... now dessert ... some Mozart chocs i got from germany a few days ago filled with marzipan
kenji Pookes: You can't really generalize about the media in the US, and I doubt you can in the UK either.
Mickorod Renard: thanks,,you just made me very jelous Ara
arabella Ella: to some extent you can kenji the only exception is new digital media like blogs
kenji Pookes: Mozarts are good.
arabella Ella: yummy
kenji Pookes: Blogs aren't biased? You're kidding, right?
arabella Ella: the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak ... so i guess i may eat a whole box
Mickorod Renard: tongue hanging out
arabella Ella: blogs can go either way ... liberal, conservative, biased or 'bought' by multinationals (commissioned)
kenji Pookes: Same as the rest of the media.
arabella Ella: i disageee
kenji Pookes: How so?
arabella Ella: each time i have been to the USA and switched on news on TV it is always about the US, at the most if it is about overseas events ...
Mickorod Renard: and,,you are what you eat,,I dont read the papers anymore
arabella Ella: it would go on about demonising muslima
arabella Ella: muslims
Mickorod Renard: just cience journal,,and thats bad enough
arabella Ella: or something about investments in UK or S Africa
arabella Ella: but tell me ken
kenji Pookes: YEs, the US media focuses on issues of importance to the US. I agree.
arabella Ella: what has the US media reported about civilian casualties in Iraq?
arabella Ella: no ken it is always one sided believe me
kenji Pookes: Not enough.
arabella Ella: read some on line media from the emirates or from bangkok and you'll see
Mickorod Renard: I wish the uk media was a lil more one sided
Mickorod Renard: maybe they would stop destroyin the country
arabella Ella: the UK media make a mountain out of a molehill ... they are very good with language
kenji Pookes: You are wrong about that, Ara. There are media outlets that provide different perspectives. I've traveled all over and I agree that other countires show more interest in international news than the US, but that does not mean that we cannot get it here.
arabella Ella: you can get it of course ken but very few ppl do so
kenji Pookes: How do you know that?
arabella Ella: i mean ... even here on this little island where i live most news bulletins on TV dedicate quite a portion to foreign news
Mickorod Renard: I get the same feeling too Ken,,the Us seem very insular..maybe its because of location too,,born from feeling like out of reach of harm
arabella Ella: most ppl prefer to be 'comfortably numb'
arabella Ella: Mick being insular for the US is also beneficial for their economy
Mickorod Renard: yes,,in some ways
arabella Ella: like tourism ... most ppl in the USA take their vacations in resorts in the US or US resorts in Mexico or Caribean
kenji Pookes: I would agree that the US is insular, but you need to be careful about making very broad generalizations that are not true. There is a difference btween lack of access and lack of interest. I would agree that many Americans lack interest in the rest of the world.
arabella Ella: i find then that US intellectuals are different
kenji Pookes: Ara, do you know what it costs to travel outside of the US?
arabella Ella: yes ken i just paid nearly 1K euros to get a flight ticket to Malaysia
kenji Pookes: US intellectuals are not the only ones. Many other people have interests in the rest of the world.
arabella Ella: and it costs me a bomb even to travel to europe as i live on an island
kenji Pookes: Why would you do that?
arabella Ella: conference in malaysia
Mickorod Renard: I wud have offered you a seaty on my push bike for much less Ara
Mickorod Renard: ]seaty
kenji Pookes: Yes, but you have the money to pay. Many people don't.
arabella Ella: and i have been to conferences in the US on numerous occasions
arabella Ella: well academics in europe are not known for having huge salaries you know ... for the work we do we are underpaid here and we teach like slaves
kenji Pookes: But you cannot complain that Americans don't travel enough when there are many who cannot afford to travel like you do.
arabella Ella: mick thanks i will keep your offer in mind
Mickorod Renard: he he he
arabella Ella: well kenji need i mention who the BIG famous person is who never travelled overseas until he became president?
arabella Ella: and dont tell me he could not afford to travel
kenji Pookes: You mean Bush?
arabella Ella: probably ... smiles
Mickorod Renard: I guess that there is little to travel for cos Us has everything anyway
kenji Pookes: That's odd since his father was the ambassador to China.
arabella Ella: well when he was first elected all the media here in europe was full of reports that he had never bbeen overseas
Mickorod Renard: I suppose much is born from non US perceptions
kenji Pookes: Maybe there were wrong. I really don't know.
arabella Ella: maybe
arabella Ella: but again my point is that most ppl in the US chose to spend their vacation in the US and ...
Mickorod Renard: like many countries are poor,,and see US as rich,,then they only hear that the US are raiding their oil?
arabella Ella: many are nowadays terrorised of even travelling to europe as they think they would be a target for terrorists ... which is ... BS
Mickorod Renard: its just bad media coverage
kenji Pookes: Well, I think people should be free to go where they want on vacation. IF they want, and can afford, to travel outside of the US, then fine. If not, then fine.
arabella Ella: do you think you are a target for terrorism when you travel outside the US ken and are there places you would like to visit but prefer not to do so?
arabella Ella: brb mozart chocs finished need to raid fridge again ...
kenji Pookes: It depends on where I go. In some places I think I would be a target. Even from this conversation, it is clear that many people around the world dislike America/Americans, despite the fact that they don't know much about either.
Mickorod Renard: I remember a friend,,work collegue of mine,,his family are from KEnya and they are always slagging the US ..yet,,I hear that they are trying very hard to get permits to live in the US as they get some lottery type acceptance each year
Mickorod Renard: a bit hypercritical too me
kenji Pookes: I am not a supporter of US foreign policy over the past eight years, but I will say this. A lot of people around the world spend a great deal of time throwing shit at the US, and then turn around and come here for education, jobs, etc. There is very much a double standard used in refernce to this country.
arabella Ella: but ken u got me wrong ... i like americans very much ... apologies if the wrong impression was portrayed :)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,that was my point Ken
kenji Pookes: How can you like all of us? THere are plenty of rotten people here.
Mickorod Renard: and here
kenji Pookes: Exactly.
Mickorod Renard: he he he
arabella Ella: but ken ... in each country ... as u know from your profession ... there is the whole spectrum of folk
kenji Pookes: Because the US is so powerful economialyy, politically, and militarily, it is constantly being defined by the rest of the world. But true understnadint of its complexity (just like the complexity of any other place) is often quite lacking.
arabella Ella: and i for one would love to come to the states for a short period to work ... a sabbatical perhaps
kenji Pookes: I know, Ara, but you keep making rather broad generalizations about the US and Americans.
kenji Pookes: Why, Ara?
Mickorod Renard: well,,the UK still gets tarred with that brush Ken,,yet we gave up our world dominance donkeys ears ago
arabella Ella: ok let's try another tack ... but this is just my curiousity to understand more than anything else ok?
arabella Ella: so ... have you ever seen a smart car in real life?
Poor lil Smart cars get some bashing now
kenji Pookes: Yes, the UK gets plenty of it.
kenji Pookes: You mean one of those stupid little two seaters?
arabella Ella: see?
arabella Ella: why stupid?
kenji Pookes: See what?
arabella Ella: when people had porches they too were 2 seaters and they were cool
arabella Ella: but they used lots of gas
arabella Ella: and smart cars dont
Mickorod Renard: the Brits and US saved the world from nazi dominance,,but do they get any thanks for it,,nope,,just critisism
arabella Ella: my point is
kenji Pookes: There are a lot of them here. They run no high octane gas, have no space, and get poorer mileage than my Honda Civic Hybrid. That's why stupid.
kenji Pookes: Right on Mick.
arabella Ella: but now you must admit you are guilty of generalising by calling them stupid cos they are excellent city cars for short distances
Mickorod Renard: wow,,u got a hybrid Ken?
kenji Pookes: Smart cars are stupid. They are cheap, but stupid in areas like the US.
arabella Ella: and most people i meet from the US who come to europe and see them for the first time have the same reaction and you just did
arabella Ella: well smart cars are cheap in the US but not here
kenji Pookes: I have a civic hybrid, it gets 45 mpg, which is better than the "smart" car and it can seat 5.
kenji Pookes: Take a drive in Austin and you will see a hybrid about evern minute. There are huge numbers of Prius's on the road here.
arabella Ella: but ken ... i have no doubt of your own personal integrity where green issues are concerned believe me
arabella Ella: and if civic hybrids are cheap in austin ... good for you ... cos they are really expensive here
arabella Ella: but then even your gas is still cheap compared to europe
kenji Pookes: But my reaction isn't baseed on the fact that they are small. It is that they are small, require high octane gas, and get comparatively poor mileage. I can see no reason to buy one here.
kenji Pookes: Our gas is cheap, indeed.
Mickorod Renard: here in the UK the only method I can see that the government is trying to reduce its carbon footprint,,is by trying to encourage most people to leave
kenji Pookes: Ha
arabella Ella: i can provide some suggestions for you there Mick
Mickorod Renard: then they can cull all the farting cows
Mickorod Renard: ty Ara
arabella Ella: are you guardian today mick?
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: oh ok
Well,,thats the world put in order, time for a kip(sleep)
kenji Pookes: I've got to run. Time to make dinner.
kenji Pookes: See y'all later.
Mickorod Renard: ok Ken,,great chat
arabella Ella: ok bye ken and please dont take my curiousity badly ok?
arabella Ella: it is well meant
kenji Pookes: I don't Ara, but I think you could be a bit less judgmental of the US and Americans. We are surely responsible for plenty of bad in the world, most empires are, but there is a lot of good here as well.
arabella Ella: yes i know that ken rest assured honestly :)
Mickorod Renard: too right Ken
kenji Pookes: ok. Cheers.
Mickorod Renard: well,,that was fun
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