2009.08.02 19:00 - Self-healing

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

Eos Amaterasu, doug Sosa and Pila Mulligan join us, Bellily Millar, a newcomer joins us shortly.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia, doug
doug Sosa: hi after a long absence
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Doug, Eos
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, long time, how are you
doug Sosa: fine, yes, yet... the world has been busy, trying to keep up. with it.
stevenaia Michinaga: I've noticed that lately
stevenaia Michinaga: harder to tread water these days
doug Sosa: well, treading water is harder than swimming :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I am not to good at either
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila
doug Sosa: fortunately there is still some dry land.
Pila Mulligan: greetings
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pila
doug Sosa: pila good to see you after many weeks.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: thanks, same here doug
doug Sosa: and still smiling!
Pila Mulligan: yep :)
Pila Mulligan: but not last week ... last week was geek hell for Pila
doug Sosa: geek...hell? how do they come together?
Pila Mulligan: systems crashing everywhere
Pila Mulligan: ... SL seems laggy
stevenaia Michinaga: it is still behaving strangely for me
stevenaia Michinaga: between thunder storms
Pila Mulligan: ahh ... be careful, don't fry Steve
doug Sosa: well, i was happy today because new drivers for my lenovo laptop finally allowed connecting with secondlife(or did second life change its requirements??). So that is part of why I haven't been here.
Pila Mulligan: graphics drivers?
doug Sosa: yes..
doug Sosa: for the intel 695 chip
stevenaia Michinaga: I'm not plugged in to anything :)
doug Sosa: really off the grid:)
Pila Mulligan: but all those free electrons floating around in the air ....
doug Sosa: lusty fellows, they just want to link up to some sexy molecule.
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I seem to be down wind from a RL skunk tonight :( have they landed in Hawaii yet , Pila?)
Pila Mulligan: we have no skunks, squirrels or snakes here
Eos Amaterasu: no smell-o-vision
doug Sosa: seagulls ate em all.
stevenaia Michinaga: lucky you
Pila Mulligan: they worry about snakes the most
Pila Mulligan: Guam has a brown tree snake and no birds as a result
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: hi Bellily
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Bellily, we are in the middle of a 90 second mediation
Bellily Millar: hi all, not a very good navigator in sl. sorry for tripping over you
Bellily Millar: ok. sorry
Pila Mulligan: :) happens a lot here
stevenaia Michinaga: done
Pila Mulligan: the 90 seconds just ended
Eos Amaterasu: gasp!
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before?
Bellily Millar: I'm sorry for interrupting
Bellily Millar: nope
doug Sosa: great to be able to walk through somebody and not spill their coffee.
Bellily Millar: grin - yeah
stevenaia Michinaga: we record our conversations and post them on our Wiki, is it ok to include yours
Bellily Millar: yes
Pila Mulligan: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009
Bellily Millar: is there a topic?
Pila Mulligan: not yet, tonight it is still open -- any ideas?
stevenaia Michinaga: whatever comes up, but we try to focus on the nature of reality when we run out of things
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: the notecard I gave you explains much
stevenaia Michinaga: but feel free to join s anytime
stevenaia Michinaga: *us

Pila Mulligan: I had a nice SL chat a few days ago, not here, about self-healing
stevenaia Michinaga: how did you find this place?
stevenaia Michinaga: self healing as in body, mind or both?
Bellily Millar: sorry-slow computer. I'm looking for corvi
Pila Mulligan: I haven't seen Corvi today
Pila Mulligan: both, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: she is not on at the moment, she was at RL work earlier
doug Sosa: I'll get serious. Self-healing seems to me almost a contradiction.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Bellily Millar: ty. i have looked at the chatlogs and find you ll to be very fascinating with good things to say
doug Sosa: It is as though i can (stand) being rich while others are poor. I am me and my circumstances.
Pila Mulligan: happy you found us then Be :)
Pila Mulligan: hmm, I miss the analogy doug, maybe we are missing word-meanings in our conversation here
doug Sosa: just that self-help leaves out the not self. I prefer inclusion.
stevenaia Michinaga: "not-self"?
Pila Mulligan: ahh, ideally yes -- world healing is the alternative perhaps, but this chat was with two people each having a personal problem
doug Sosa: what is not self, other.
Pila Mulligan: so self-healing as an alternative to going to the doctor :)
doug Sosa: personal problems are also systemic problems with the real world.
Pila Mulligan: true
Eos Amaterasu: self-healing might save money
Pila Mulligan: yes, that is an essential part, in the US especially
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eos Amaterasu: not an issue here (maybe that's why we're so unhealthy :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: however, there was recently a case in wisconsin where god was doing the healing... and well god failed
doug Sosa: If the doc focuses on self, well, a problem. the real self is connected to everything accessible, including the doc.
doug Sosa: how could one know god failed? In the old logic god knew best and we could not see it.
Pila Mulligan: yes, the chat began by eliminating the things that require more than can be done by one's self
stevenaia Michinaga: the child died and the parents relied on god to heal
Pila Mulligan: you can't really remove your own appendix
Pila Mulligan: easily, at least
doug Sosa: My grandad was a doc and had a book "how to remove your own appendix: manual for backwoodsmen."
Pila Mulligan: yep, it must have been done
Pila Mulligan: but this is not healing the Atman kind of Self healing -- it is like fixing your own car
stevenaia Michinaga: so how do you remove your own depression?
Pila Mulligan: almost like the backwoods book, but without medical school
Pila Mulligan: that was one question
doug Sosa: If you eliminate all that cannot be done by self, then you can;t even make dinner.
Pila Mulligan: the second was how to relieve your own stress
Eos Amaterasu: the "so-called-real" self arises in co-dependent origination
Eos Amaterasu: self-healing therefore works, must, with the whole context
Pila Mulligan: yep
Eos Amaterasu: probably starts with just tolerating yourself and all of your projections

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: wb Be
Bellily Millar: SL crash
Pila Mulligan: welcome back - 90 seconds time again :)
doug Sosa: Depression. Some people are prone to migraine, others to upset stomach, others to depression. When the situation is stressful the weakest system expresses itself. The key to depression is to take it seriously. There is a reason to be depressed, and a good one. Oh, not good enough to suffer that much, but still good.
doug Sosa: So, depressed, good indicator something is wrong. let's find out what.
Eos Amaterasu: that's an overly cheerful attitude for a depressed person
Pila Mulligan: sounds like a shrink dog
Pila Mulligan: doug*
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: does not sound like an approach a depressed person would take
Pila Mulligan: actually, in this case, Eos, it would be just right probably
Eos Amaterasu: part of depression is "acedia", what St Thomas called sloth: sadness in the face of spiritual good
Pila Mulligan: the person is a smart, active slightly depressed man
Pila Mulligan: he could deal with it
Eos Amaterasu: there's an energy problem with depression
Eos Amaterasu: Oh, in the particular case you're describing - okay
Eos Amaterasu: Gret!
Eos Amaterasu: *Great!
doug Sosa: here is a dialog
doug Sosa: oops.
doug Sosa: friend "you are depressed?" yes. "how much?" lots. Is there a part of you that notices that you are depressed? yes. Is that part of you depressed? The answer is almost always "no."
doug Sosa: *friend
Pila Mulligan: interesting
Pila Mulligan: I think I know what the depression relates to but it is not for me to approach directly, lacking clinical skill
doug Sosa: a depressed person's reason for being depressed is usually, well, really depressing. failed relationships, failed ego, crushed by circumstances..
Pila Mulligan: I like the idea doug
doug Sosa: Depression is one way to try to opt out.
Eos Amaterasu: Pila, would you say depression is lack of chi?
doug Sosa: I think it is not so much clinical as philosophical, epistemological, and experience.
Pila Mulligan: in part, yes
Bellily Millar: "acedia" th noontme demn.acedia is a type of depression we are encouraged to use our own spiritual energies to overcome..
Bellily Millar: help me, this chat thing isn't working very well on my computer
doug Sosa: acedia, is that a-cedia, and what is cedia?
Pila Mulligan: SL is laggy tonight Be
Bellily Millar: i'll just listen
Pila Mulligan: it is often not easy to get the typing and chat timed right when SL is laggy
doug Sosa: Be, do you have chat window open?
Bellily Millar: yes
doug Sosa: you are coming through fine.
Eos Amaterasu: acedia was a term used to describe a type of depression spiritually oriented people were prone to (middle ages)
doug Sosa: *coming
Pila Mulligan: the second person in the chat is a smart, active woman -- she had gone to a doctor about heart pain and had been told she was healthy n body, but stressed out
doug Sosa: from wiki, "Acedia is a word from ancient Greek describing a state of listlessness or torpor, of not caring or not being concerned with one's position ."
Pila Mulligan: there again, maybe it is a matter she can deal with on her own, without paying for medicine
Bellily Millar: acedia seems to be different from clinical depression though. maybe the distinction needs to be clearer
Eos Amaterasu: it can approach nihilism a la "since everything's empty, why bother?"
Pila Mulligan: cows are like buffalos, however, so it may be close
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, may have nothing to do with PIla's co-chatter
Eos Amaterasu: acedia with cool is café existentialism
stevenaia Michinaga: have you even been depressed Pila?
Bellily Millar: eos:acedia started as a spiritual/ xian term in th middl ages the point of battling aceda is to exorcise the demon that tells us life is meaningless
Pila Mulligan: I've been sad Steve, but not lingering as I would imagine depression must be
Eos Amaterasu: yes indeed, Bellily
Pila Mulligan: exorcise the demon is an interesting image
stevenaia Michinaga: I can be difficult to help someone with something that has not been experienced
Eos Amaterasu: spirits tend to be personified
doug Sosa: Yet what wiki says is that it started with the greeks and into christian mysticism as the problem of monks in isolation.
Pila Mulligan: yes, I realize my limits in trying to help, and so the chat moved to what can be done by self-help
Pila Mulligan: we decided to do an exercise for a few days
Pila Mulligan: including me
Eos Amaterasu: me listens
Pila Mulligan: we would take five minutes each day and simply see if we could make ourselves feel as well as possible
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pila Mulligan: no reasoning or theory, just try and see
Eos Amaterasu: no "if"
Pila Mulligan: or why
doug Sosa: wonderful.

Eos Amaterasu: (variation on if koan....)
Pila Mulligan: it is funny - it is possible to feel better by effort, but hard to see why
Pila Mulligan: effort = intent (not straining effort)
Bellily Millar: interacting and projecting love an non-judgement can kick some derious depression butt
Pila Mulligan: :)
Bellily Millar: serious
Pila Mulligan: that's the idea I suppose :)
Eos Amaterasu: dearious
Pila Mulligan: serious*
Bellily Millar: oh lawd... i hate the lag...
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Bellily Millar: grin
Eos Amaterasu: love the loag :-)
Eos Amaterasu: *lag
Pila Mulligan: now, maybe you guys have some ideas for the next step ...
Pila Mulligan: the woman has told me it has helped her
Pila Mulligan: I have not seen the man yet
Pila Mulligan: so what should be step#2
Pila Mulligan: ?
stevenaia Michinaga: after exercise?
Pila Mulligan: well, let's say we see we can raise our spirits or exorcise the demons for a few minutes ...
stevenaia Michinaga: feeling better, loosing weight, better self image
Pila Mulligan: then what?
Bellily Millar: being appreciative of the god thing in lie
Bellily Millar: life
Pila Mulligan: how to solidity the forward step, make it more present
Bellily Millar: by smiling
doug Sosa: i would go slow. step 1 is powerful, don't move beyond quickly, that is just part of avoiding the experience.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: RE [19:44] Pila Mulligan: we would take five minutes each day and simply see if we could make ourselves feel as well as possible
Pila Mulligan: thanks doug, I had a feeling similar also
doug Sosa: how did you do it?
Eos Amaterasu: take 5 mins and simply see ourselves
stevenaia Michinaga: I think as doug said, but having them look at who is depressed
stevenaia Michinaga: *by
Eos Amaterasu: no getting better
Eos Amaterasu: just see
Eos Amaterasu: stand yourself, ourselves
Pila Mulligan: what did you mean doug 'how did you do it?'
doug Sosa: I find that five minutes of moving, especially with twists, arms over the head, and best to music, creates a better state, but note, the depressed person doesn't want it.
Pila Mulligan: it may not be possible to see how it was done if I understand
doug Sosa: The depressed person want to not be effective because they are afraid of failure and its impact on self worth.
doug Sosa: *wants
stevenaia Michinaga: so you suggest we do the hokie pokie
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: sort of. good jazz, or dance to classical (but that is amazingly hard for many).
Pila Mulligan: movement is helpful, and hard sometimes
doug Sosa: But when the exercise is over the depressed person is relieved from the danger of feeling less depressed.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I think you have to really meet your depression
Pila Mulligan: the same result of movement seems likely for the streedes person as well
Eos Amaterasu: hopelessness is necessary
Eos Amaterasu: then something can happen for no reason
Pila Mulligan: stressed*
doug Sosa: That's why it is important to get at why depressed. "loss of job" for example may be what the person says, but the real depressing thing is the loss of a job is symptomatic of a screwed up system, and now we are getting someplace..
Bellily Millar: depression is a demon that tries to isolate you, make you feel alone in what you are thinking. the best medicine might be pleasant company
Pila Mulligan: yes, Be, in this case the man identifies being alone as the problem
Bellily Millar: *isolate
doug Sosa: There is a story about a south sea island where anthropologists saw that when someone was depressed it was time f the community to give him/her a party, and say "hey king, what do you want next, and keep it up for a day or two till they give up and laugh.
Bellily Millar: (expresses love and a hug to the depressed person... i don't know who it is because i m very confused here..
Pila Mulligan: it is someone not here, and too distant to hug in real life, Be
Pila Mulligan: but love travels well
doug Sosa: Remember, the depressed person feels unworthy of love, so love can often not help.
Eos Amaterasu: we can probably emanate a geo-tagged hug :-)
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: Especially because it says "get over it", which the person can't because it is so big (in their mind, and often correctly).
Eos Amaterasu: (Il leave the coordinates to you, pila)
Pila Mulligan: well, we felt our way into the 1st step ok, so eventually maybe we can spontaneously take a next step, too
doug Sosa: Be, we are all confused here, that is the safety of this place.
Bellily Millar: love = being there despite the ugliness of a person's alienating thoughts w

--BELL--

doug Sosa: This is wonderful but dinner calls. bye.
Bellily Millar: oy. is there a way to make this chat smoother to execute?
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Doug
Pila Mulligan: thanks doug, bye for now
Bellily Millar: aloha doug, nice o meet you
doug Sosa: bye.
Eos Amaterasu: ciao doug
Pila Mulligan: are you in Germany be?
Bellily Millar: no, but from there
Pila Mulligan: would you perhaps be at a place where it is afternoon now?
Bellily Millar: no.. in the us
Pila Mulligan: ah, i was investigating the 'aloha doug'
Bellily Millar: where are you all from ?
stevenaia Michinaga: I find depression difficult to relate to directly other than all my depressed friends tell me it;s real
Pila Mulligan: Hawaii
Eos Amaterasu: Nova Scotia
stevenaia Michinaga: I am in EAstern US
Pila Mulligan: yes, Steve, i believe the depressed person lives with it like a migraine, as i believe doug analogized earlier
Eos Amaterasu: It's just after midnight here - will do to sleep/dream life now :-)
Bellily Millar: oh! aloha-for-real: pila! and it must be nice ad coolin NS, Eos. I am, like steve, in the eastern u. H H Hot
Pila Mulligan: bye Eos, nice to see you - sweet dreams
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: night eos
Eos Amaterasu: bye all, :_)
Bellily Millar: I will leave too. thank you for letting me converse with you al
Pila Mulligan: 'aloha-for-real: pila!' :) nice to meet you Be, see you next time
stevenaia Michinaga: shall I relay any message to corvi?
Bellily Millar: I will try to find her at a later point. it's personal business
stevenaia Michinaga: ok, nice meeting you
Bellily Millar: thank you or asking
Bellily Millar: have a good night day/everything. love to you all.
Pila Mulligan: bye for now, Bellily
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
Pila Mulligan: how's the weather now Steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: rain and humid
stevenaia Michinaga: like you I suppose :)
Pila Mulligan: cloudy, but some sun still
Pila Mulligan: humid
stevenaia Michinaga: it takes it's toll w/air conditioning
Pila Mulligan: something I don;t have :)
Pila Mulligan: a/c

Pila Mulligan: how's tai chi doing?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paridise
Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
Pila Mulligan: I had a nice chat with Wol earlier today about her wedding journey
Paradise Tennant: hiya pila steve :))
Pila Mulligan: how are you Paradise?
Paradise Tennant: very well thanks .. have had lots of rl company .. not been able to be in world much
Paradise Tennant: how you two ?
Paradise Tennant: *are
Pila Mulligan: are these rl guests also form SL?
Pila Mulligan: I'm fine thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: I am good
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Paradise Tennant: hmm some were
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: happy to hear it
Pila Mulligan: Wol went to the US from Europe for a wedding of people that met on SL
Paradise Tennant: cool
Pila Mulligan: she was also saying how it is all the same
stevenaia Michinaga: I met her with Adams and Fefonz in NJ
Pila Mulligan: cool Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: for dinner
Pila Mulligan: you had already met Adams and Fefonz ?
stevenaia Michinaga: I met Adams
Pila Mulligan: so Wol and Fef were new in rl
Pila Mulligan: any surprises?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, not really, it was a very mellow evening in a very loud restaurant
Pila Mulligan: in our earlier chat today, Wol said in SL we make a 'connection to a personality through the words and ideas and style of speech' and so in rl 'meeting them is no great surprise: we know them very well already'

Pila Mulligan: that makes sense, but is contrary to my prior assumptions
stevenaia Michinaga: Adams was a big surprise for me
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: ... more?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I still adore her avatars
Pila Mulligan: I had assumed it was not likely that a cartoon chat would result in a very substantial personal connection, but I have been corrected
stevenaia Michinaga: ooops
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: most people I have met became their RL image for me after
stevenaia Michinaga: the avatar became a placeholder for their voice
Pila Mulligan: Wol also said, the SL avatar is a chosen appearance, we decided to look this way with a greater or lesser investment of time and effort and money so one may assume that it says something pretty significant to and about us, on some level'
Pila Mulligan: that was a quote
Paradise Tennant: hmm lol
Pila Mulligan: so this is all very interesting psychology
Pila Mulligan: about ten years ago a friend my age married someone he met on a yahoo chat site
Pila Mulligan: i thought it was really odd then
stevenaia Michinaga: well I used to be an SL woman until a friend made me this man Avatar
Pila Mulligan: but they are happy and now have a son
stevenaia Michinaga: so I am the image of another's vision of me
Pila Mulligan: without the beard
Paradise Tennant: i guess connection is connection regardless of the medium where it arises :)
Pila Mulligan: and some people have said SL increases the opportunity for the connection
Paradise Tennant: i would be there are pen pals who have also married and been content
Paradise Tennant: *bet
Pila Mulligan: since we do not have visual clues to put us off
Paradise Tennant: it certainly mixes up the globe
Pila Mulligan: yes, it is like a new world of psychology
Paradise Tennant: hmmm
Pila Mulligan: it is fun to see it
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: well I must go
stevenaia Michinaga: see you soon
Paradise Tennant: okies good night steve
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve, nice to see you
Pila Mulligan: hope your wife's ankle heal soon
stevenaia Michinaga: good seeing you again
Paradise Tennant: pila do you have time for a quick meditation .. holiday tomorrow in canada lol I can stay up later :))
Pila Mulligan: yes -- what holiday?
Paradise Tennant: just a civic holiday ..
Paradise Tennant: August 1st
Pila Mulligan: that's nice -- holidays are healthy for society
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: August 1st is an excellent reason :)
Pila Mulligan: any ideas on your mind before meditating?
Paradise Tennant: lol I always thought so
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Paradise Tennant: having trouble typing .. cut my finger cooking .. been entertaining alot .. did a very nice roof party for a crowd .. so I am wounded ..You ? Any ideas ?
Pila Mulligan: sorry about your finger -- Steve's wife just broke her ankle -- my skin and bones are fine today
Paradise Tennant: how did that happen
Pila Mulligan: we were talking earlier about self-healing
Pila Mulligan: he did not say

Paradise Tennant: ouch
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Pila Mulligan: yep, i broke my ankle many years ago --it hurt
Paradise Tennant: always think your thoughts often dictate your health
Pila Mulligan: yes, in some ways for sure
Pila Mulligan: people seem to have the ability to intentionally feel better
Pila Mulligan: feel*
Paradise Tennant: twisted mine running .. blew up like a cantaloupe - that hurt .. imagine a break much much worse
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: i agree .. very much so
Pila Mulligan: so how do we tap into that well-being place?
Paradise Tennant: our intention is a kind of focus that can effect material change
Pila Mulligan: and avoid doctor bills and medicine

Paradise Tennant: him visualization .. mental rehearsal ..like athletes do .. sometimes when I run i take a moment and try to feel what it is going to be like .. one of those light as a feather I can do this for ever versus one of those days where every step is painful
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: think you can do that with your body too .. visualize it strong .. healthy
Paradise Tennant: now if it would just work with my hair lol
Pila Mulligan: I've heard that before, from healers, and seen work done in that manner
Pila Mulligan: not on hair :)
Pila Mulligan: it probably works on hair too though :)
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: hmmm
Paradise Tennant: not sure about that lol
Pila Mulligan: have faith :)
Paradise Tennant: have a friend who does touch healing ..
Paradise Tennant: kind of cool concept
Pila Mulligan: yep, some people have the gift
Paradise Tennant: not dissimilar to ton glen but a touch more hands on so to speak :)
Pila Mulligan: lomilomi is a Hawaiian massage form used by healers here
Paradise Tennant: :))
Pila Mulligan: I knew a Hawaiin a very successful healer now deceased ...
Pila Mulligan: his method was to move his hands over the patient
Paradise Tennant: was he she a medical intuit ?
Pila Mulligan: when he came to place on the patient needing healing the hair on this forearm would stand up
Pila Mulligan: then he would massage that place until his arm hair settled won
Pila Mulligan: down
Pila Mulligan: it worked
Pila Mulligan: it was intuitive no doubt, but intuitive plus
Paradise Tennant: so he felt pins and needles
Pila Mulligan: just his hair stood p :)
Pila Mulligan: up*
Pila Mulligan: maye pin and needles too
Pila Mulligan: i never asked
Pila Mulligan: he saved his son's life after a car accident when the hospital staff had declared him gone
Paradise Tennant: sometimes if I have a strong thought that is hmm how so we say really true .. I get a similar feeling ..like you have tapped into to something bigger :)
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: hair is a signal
Paradise Tennant: yowser
Pila Mulligan: so combing by visualization must be possible
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: ball caps work too
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: mediatate?
Paradise Tennant: sure would love to :)) you say when
Pila Mulligan: let's see -in 5 minutes there will be a 90 second pause , so now to then -- * when*
Paradise Tennant: kk

Pila Mulligan: that was quick :)
Paradise Tennant: ;)) thank you pila
Pila Mulligan: thank you Paradise
Paradise Tennant: short but .. a good break .. will sleep better for it :)))
Pila Mulligan: I hope you have sweet dreams and a nice August holiday
Paradise Tennant: yes my brother and his wife are in town we are spending the day with mom :)) family time :))
Paradise Tennant: :)) be well
Pila Mulligan: the close relationships
Pila Mulligan: same -- aloha `oe
Paradise Tennant: aloha"oe ;)