2009.08.06 13:00 - In Complete Silance for 10 days

The Guardian for this meeting was sophia Placebo. The comments are by sophia Placebo.

Bertram Jacobus: hello fox ... :-)
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: hello Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: your look is a bit scary to me - what shall it express, please ? (or is it "only an african masquerade) ? ... :-)
Fox Monacular: it's actually a character from a cartoon 'spirited away'
Bertram Jacobus: hallo pema ... :-)
Fox Monacular: it's called 'no face'
Bertram Jacobus: ah. okay. i don´t know that yet ... ;-)
Pema Pera: Hi Bertramand Fox!
Fox Monacular: it's a really beautiful animation film by Myazaki
Fox Monacular: hello Pema
Bertram Jacobus: oh. that sounds very intersting ...
Pema Pera: yes, it's a wonderful movie; I've seen it several times!
Bertram Jacobus: i try to google or youtube it ... :-)
Fox Monacular: it's worth renting ot buying in good quality
Fox Monacular: I'm happy to finally meet you, Pema
Pema Pera: yes, same here, Fox!
Pema Pera: I was in Japan for six weeks, so I couldn't attend the afternoon sessions, since I was asleep :)
Pema Pera: back in New York City now
Fox Monacular: Great!
Bertram Jacobus: i found the trailer and bookmarked it - will research it later ... ;-)
Fox Monacular: enjoy!
Bertram Jacobus: ty :-)
Fox Monacular: I missed many sessions this month... :(, my mother was full time babysitting so I was full time at work... and they don't let me go to sl from there:)
Bertram Jacobus: hello davina ... :-)
Fox Monacular: hello Davina
Pema Pera: Hi Davina!
Pema Pera: good seeing you here!
Davina Bazylinska: Hi
Pema Pera: Davina is relatively new to Second Life
Pema Pera: I guess you've been in only a few times, is that correct, Davina?
Fox Monacular: welcome! I'm quite new too:)
Davina Bazylinska: Yes, this is my third time
Bertram Jacobus: but she / you found already this place here. how comes ? by chance or some relations davina ? :-)
sophia Placebo: hi all
sophia Placebo: hi gaya
Pema Pera: Hi Sophia and Gaya
Fox Monacular: Hi Sophia and Gaya
Bertram Jacobus: hy sophia and gaya :-)
sophia Placebo: hi fox , the greed spirit !
Pema Pera: Davina and I have known each other for many years in RL, Bert
Pema Pera: so no magic there :)
sophia Placebo: forgot its name *
Bertram Jacobus: ah. great :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
Pema Pera: Davina, have you read some of the Play as Being wiki web site, about our 9-sec breaks method?
Davina Bazylinska: A little. Is that what you're doing now?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: not specifically here, we use this time to talk about our experiences in general, including the 9-sec method
Pema Pera: and every fifteen minutes we pause for 90 seconds, for good measure :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi all :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello SophiaSharon :)
Pema Pera: the main point is to make the 9-sec rule a way of life, during your RL time
Pema Pera: Hi SophiaSharon!
Pema Pera: and hi Qt!
Pema Pera: wow, quite a crowd!
Qt Core: hi all
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Qt
Fox Monacular: Hi Qt
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Qt :)
Fox Monacular: Hi SophiaSharon
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: hello qt and sophias :-)
Pema Pera: I guess nobody has taken over Storm's session, which is the one we are in now, and he is traveling -- would anyone volunteer to put up the chat log?
sophia Placebo: hi new comers!
Bertram Jacobus: sorry : always forget to put on the sound and then i don´t hear the bell ... *smile shy* ...
sophia Placebo: i will
Pema Pera: thank you very much, Sophia!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :)
sophia Placebo: np :)
Pema Pera: Bert, during the 90 seconds pause the pond becomes misty
Pema Pera: that is a visual clue, besides the bell
Pema Pera: in addition, there is a thrid clue:
sophia Placebo: green text
Pema Pera: if you have the "local chat" window open, which is a good idea anyway to look at previous sentences, you can see in green the announcements of begin and end of the 90-sec period
Bertram Jacobus: ah. how unaware i am ! ... will to look at it now very precise ...
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: Fox, if I may ask, have you played with the 9-sec approach yet, the brief breaks a few times an hour, to drop what you have to see what you are?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. the green text i have in the local window, but sometimes i see it when i wrote something . want to make it better in future ... :o)
Fox Monacular: Yes, I have played it for a few days
Fox Monacular: it's a very interesting kind of mini-meditation on the awareness of the present moment
Fox Monacular: and, as always, I find it hard to just 'be' - I'm practicing diff kinds of meditation, and also read a lot about buddhism
Fox Monacular: so I realize how many preconceptions I have)
Pema Pera: that's a great start, almost the end of it all :)
Pema Pera: when we see our own preconceptions, we actually don't have to drop them . . . seeing is enough
Fox Monacular: I find it's a great way to enforce mindfulness during normal course of the day
Fox Monacular: yes, that's the goal
Pema Pera: when we really see them . . . in practice we oscillate, seeing, forgetting, seeing again, etc . . . but over time we can learn to see more clearly and more steadily
Fox Monacular: meditation teachers often say that you never really stop practicing, and the 9 sec excersice for me is another way to try and enforce it
Fox Monacular: right
Pema Pera: yes, it's really about integration
SophiaSharon Larnia: is shocked by the notion of not dropping it
SophiaSharon Larnia: is that what seeing is enough means?
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Shyama
sophia Placebo: hi shayama
Bertram Jacobus: hello shyama ... :-)
Pema Pera: usually the idea is to practice meditation for years and then to integrate what you learn in daily life, Play as Being reverts the order, starting with integration
Pema Pera: HI Shyama!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Shyama :)
Fox Monacular: I guess it's like in zen or vipassana - you recognize your thoughts and your preconceptions and you leave them at that
Pema Pera: "dropping" can have various meanings"
Pema Pera: the simplest is to really get rid of something, but the more subtle one is to get rid of your attachment to it
Pema Pera: actually getting rid of something is almost impossible . . . and not necessary either
Pema Pera: and yes, when really seeing, that implies no longer being bound by it
Fox Monacular: right, and there is also a difference between detachment and non-attachment
Pema Pera: in what way, Fox?
Fox Monacular: I think when you're de-tached, you no longer care, it's sort of artificial boundary, but non-attachment I think means that you recognize that your 'self' has something to do wich it, but you distance yourself from it
Fox Monacular: although I struggle with the difference between the two lot...
Pema Pera: ah, I see what you mean, yes, those two are very different
Pema Pera: Sharon, in meditation, we often try at first to "drop" thoughts, but in fact, just watching thougts it much better, just letting them be, watching how they arise and disappear, like watching the waves on the beach, leisurely
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've known this to be true, but haven't brought it up
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: for me anyway
Pema Pera: :)
Fox Monacular: and by watching your thoughts you can learn a lot about your mind, it;s quite amazing
Bertram Jacobus: i agree. the 9 second practise can show a lot ...
Fox Monacular: i meant more during meditation sessions, for longer periods
Bertram Jacobus: oh. okay ... :-)
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: I've found comparing notes with others is important though, not just plugging away alone.
Pema Pera: an interesting effect of the 9-sec is that when you watch your thoughts/mind during that time, it can carry over or linger well into whatever else you do afterwards, blending/integrating
Pema Pera: oh yes, Gaya, I find that essential
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm reluctant to do too much of that but it's important.
Fox Monacular: I got introduced to vipassana in a quite intense way - having never tried meditating, I went to a 10 day silent retreat... I learned more about the mind I think than during my BA and masters togehter:))
Fox Monacular: yes, definitely:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: in some ways I have been plugging away alone Gaya, although i come here, I don't saing everything that pops up lol
Bertram Jacobus: what do you learn about the mind by watching thoughts fox . may i ask ?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Fox Monacular: well, for exampla a lot of contemporary neuroscience relies on brain imaging,
Fox Monacular: well, for exampla a lot of contemporary neuroscience relies on brain imaging,
Pema Pera: wow, you really plunged right in then, Fox, with a 10-day silent retreat!
Fox Monacular: so they give you a taks and see what changes in brain patterns
Fox Monacular: but the brain is never really at rest!
Fox Monacular: so what are they substracting from what?
Fox Monacular: yes, 10 days was a little crazy...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Fox Monacular: what I mean is that there's an assumption that unless you have a task, you have 'background' activity
Fox Monacular: but I realized that even when you 'try' to meditate there's a lot going on in your mind, that you don't have any control over
Fox Monacular: thoughts, memories, emotions... what not!
Gaya Ethaniel: I suspect even in a solitary confinement cell, the brain would be active.
Pema Pera: yes, meditation is not about control . . . .
Fox Monacular: well, it's about discipline for sure
Gaya Ethaniel: [anyone else experiencing lags btw?]
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Gaya, but I know it's my connection
sophia Placebo: not with me gaya
Bertram Jacobus: no gaya. here no lag ... :-/
Gaya Ethaniel: ok ty :)
Pema Pera: a kind of discipline yes, but not the rigid kind associated with control
Fox Monacular: you can control your urge to scratch your itch:)
sophia Placebo: :)
Pema Pera: or you can watch your tendency to scratch, bemusedly, without fighting your tendency to scratch
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Pema Pera: quite a different experience
sophia Placebo: why when scratch is mentioned one feels the need to scratch !
Shyama Sheryffe: or u could scratch and watch urself doing it..
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: yes, many options
Gaya Ethaniel: I think that's how I stopped biting nails many years ago Pema, becoming more aware in general.
sophia Placebo: i once did that shayama
Fox Monacular: in zen you can't move:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: that's equating physical sensation with cognitive ones arising, and I don't think they're the same, however, you can watch them both bemusedly
Pema Pera: zen is quite rigid yes, but still you have the choice to either rigidly grid your teeth, or to just relax and give yourself up to the pose . . . .
sophia Placebo: for a few secnds i couldnt stop it , it was like automated to be that movement
Pema Pera: physical and cognitive are very intimately connected, hard to clearly separate
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
--BELL--
Gaya Ethaniel: I do think though before putting aside a method, it's good to explore why it wasn't compatible, may give an insight about oneself.
Bertram Jacobus: very interesting thought gaya
Bertram Jacobus: because for me some vajrayana practises don´t seem to fit and i don´t know why yet. i´ll think about that in the way you suggest -
Fox Monacular: definitely, I though of leaving the first 10 day retreat on about day 5... and then I talked to the teacher, and realized why I thought it wasn't for me.. I'm very happy I stayed
Pema Pera: that's a great story, Fox!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: must have been tough . . . .
Bertram Jacobus: the 10 days vipassana retreats always seem to be very intense. i heard that of all people who took part on them, also some friends ...
Gaya Ethaniel: I may come to you much later like it did to me Bertram.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go, nice to see you all :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: waves
Pema Pera: bye SophiaSharon!
sophia Placebo: bye sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye SophiaSharon :)
Shyama Sheryffe: bye sophia
Bertram Jacobus: have a nice time sophiasharon ! ... :-)
sophia Placebo: how the time pass in those 10 days fox?
Gaya Ethaniel: Or talk to a teacher like Fox did :) I can only speak for myself.
Bertram Jacobus: and sry gaya - i didn´t get that : "later to me (...)" - (my english is not good enough yet) ... ?
Bertram Jacobus: ah
Bertram Jacobus: but it´s a good idea to look at such questions by oneself too i think
Fox Monacular: oh, it passes in different speed...
Fox Monacular: first few days you just slow down from your 'normal' speed
Fox Monacular: and you only practice anapana - meditation on breathing
Fox Monacular: so it's vrery strange
Fox Monacular: then on about day 4 you start vipassana
Fox Monacular: and that's when all your chronic diseases and usual phobias and dislikes all resurface:)
Gaya Ethaniel: Need to go. Thanks for the discussion :)
sophia Placebo: bye gaya
Bertram Jacobus: bye gaya . have a good time ! ... :-)
Fox Monacular: so many people have all sorts of breakdowns, you see people crying, or laughing... but you can't talk to them:)
Pema Pera: bye Gaya!
sophia Placebo: oh
Fox Monacular: last couple of days are the best
Shyama Sheryffe: bye gaya
Fox Monacular: also because you realize that very very soon you'll go home and sleep until noon, and have your chocolate and listen to your ipod again:)
sophia Placebo: lol
Fox Monacular: but your meditation is stronger for sure
Pema Pera: :)
Davina Bazylinska: What did the teacher say to you to get you to stay past Day 5?
Bertram Jacobus: hello dinh :-)
Fox Monacular: she basically said that the mind and the body are both resisting this change, and they find usual habitual excuses
Fox Monacular: like 'i'm sick, it's not for me, i'm not ready and so on
sophia Placebo: so the first step is to break the resistant to look inside by enforcing the brain though distracting it from surrounding by breathing
Fox Monacular: so it's like the decision is not really coming from me, and I should regain control over myself
Fox Monacular: it's more about just accepting reality as it is
sophia Placebo: yes like your teacher said
Fox Monacular: not thinking about where 'else' you'd rather be
Pema Pera: I'll have to get back to work. Good seeing you all, nice to meet you finally, Fox, and welcome to PaB, Davina!
sophia Placebo: bye pema
Fox Monacular: good meeting you!
Bertram Jacobus: have a good time pema ... :-)
Fox Monacular: bye Pema
Davina Bazylinska: Thanks, Pema. Very interesting.
Davina Bazylinska: Bye, everyone. I have to go too!
Shyama Sheryffe: bye pema
sophia Placebo: bye davina
Shyama Sheryffe: and davina
Bertram Jacobus: nice to meet you davina. hope we seeyou again :-)
--BELL--
sophia Placebo: i better go to sleep , bye all , thanks fox !
Bertram Jacobus: good night sophia ... :-)
Fox Monacular: good night, sophia
Shyama Sheryffe: yawns..me too
Shyama Sheryffe: nite everyone
Bertram Jacobus: okay - then have a nice nite too shyama ... :-)
Fox Monacular: well, I guess I'll go as well:) see you all next time I hope
Qt Core: bye, time to go for me too
Bertram Jacobus: ty fox. was really intersting and inspiring !
Fox Monacular: thanks:)
Bertram Jacobus: and bye also qt ... :-)
Fox Monacular: good conversation
Bertram Jacobus: yes
Qt Core: yes, even if i only read quite interesting
Bertram Jacobus: i never expereinted you so quite before qt ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: all very nice ...
Qt Core: ok, bye then
Bertram Jacobus: bye :-)