2009.08.16 07:00 - No Mispeelings or Unintellibe Chat

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

I arrived first and then Wol, Doug, Riddlle, Bertram, Eliza, Davina, Fael, Pema and Yakuzza. What followed was a thoughtful, respectful and warm discussion. Yes, it was what we have come to expect from PaB sessions

Wol Euler: good morning adams
Wol Euler: nice outfit.
Adams Rubble: Hi Wol :)
Adams Rubble: How are you?
Wol Euler: still headachy, somehow. otherwise fine. enjoying a slow day
Adams Rubble: Ohhhh. Hope the headache goes away
Wol Euler: thank you:)
Adams Rubble: It is hot and muggy here
Wol Euler: yeah, I've been in NY in summer, it can get pretty nasty.
Wol Euler: hello doug
--BELL--
doug Sosa: morning.
Adams Rubble: Hello Doug
doug Sosa: hi.
Adams Rubble: Hello Riddle
Riddle Sideways: good morning Everybody
Wol Euler: hello Riddle, long time no see :)
doug Sosa: yes.
Riddle Sideways: yes
Riddle Sideways: Seems all I do is read about ya'll
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler grins
Wol Euler: it's that old timezone thing again.
Adams Rubble: Reading is a good way to keep in touch :)
Adams Rubble: I haven't been able to do so much lately
Riddle Sideways: not able to come into SL, but sometimes can read the chatlogs
Adams Rubble: Hello Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: hello all :-)
Wol Euler: hello Bertram
Adams Rubble: I missed your sessions lately Riddle
doug Sosa: moring.
doug Sosa: morning
Adams Rubble: Nice you are coming Sunday morning :)
Bertram Jacobus: here it´s afternoon ... :-)
Adams Rubble: ahhh
Wol Euler: :)
Riddle Sideways: this morning there were many events forcing me to wake up
doug Sosa: :)
Adams Rubble: good or bad?
Riddle Sideways: depends on how you look at them , huh
Adams Rubble: hehe
Riddle Sideways: do you see cute kitty or pesky cat jumping on sleeping body?
Adams Rubble: an appearance of Being :)
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Davina
Wol Euler: as long as it refrains from stealth pooping, everything else is good :)
Bertram Jacobus: hi Davina ... :-)
Riddle Sideways: morning Davina
Wol Euler: hello Davina
Adams Rubble: and afternoon Bertram and Wol
Davina Bazylinska: Morning!
doug Sosa: hi
Bertram Jacobus: :-)

The next statement referring to an appearance at PaB confused me. Riddle is speaking to Davina who rezzed over Wol

Riddle Sideways: the say you rezed made Wol take on a special glow
Wol Euler smiles. It tingled.
Adams Rubble trying to comprehend
Wol Euler: Davina rezzed right on to of me, her cloud enveloped me.
Adams Rubble: ohhh, yes
Davina Bazylinska: Huh?
Wol Euler: (at leas from my and riddle#s point of veiw)
Bertram Jacobus: hi eliza ... :-)
Wol Euler: not to worry, it happens :)
Adams Rubble: yes, it was quite an appearance :)
Bertram Jacobus: from mine too ;o)
Adams Rubble: Good morning Eliza :)
Wol Euler: you reappeared exctly where you had last logged out from.
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hello all :)

The next plaful topic brought us right into appearances and watching our "sayings"

Riddle Sideways: or Adams, was that you introducing the topic " trying to comprehend"
Adams Rubble: hehe
Adams Rubble: I am doing that all the time Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: so r we all
Adams Rubble: trying to comprehend not introducing
Bertram Jacobus: "all the time" ? sure ? never dropping ? ... ;-)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Adams Rubble: I have to watch what I say (giggles)
Riddle Sideways: why
doug Sosa: in PAB watching what you are saying has a different meaning :)
Riddle Sideways: oooo yes
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
doug Sosa: normal it means "control" but here it means "explore".
Riddle Sideways: like Bertram's "never dropping", maybe we should drop it sometimes
Bertram Jacobus: lol. i want to be earnest : i hate (!) it when philosophers struggle only with or for words in a bad manner ... :-/ (and am happy that that here not seems to be so!) ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: thats fine doug. that solves what i meant
doug Sosa: there is real pleasure and openness in exploration.. observing .. experiencing..
doug Sosa: appreciating.
Adams Rubble: yes Doug
Wol Euler nods

And then judgments and we consider their effect on exploration

Riddle Sideways: no judgements here
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: is judgement always condemnation ?
Riddle Sideways: oo no
Wol Euler: no, but it is always second-hand, an opinion rather than an observation
Riddle Sideways: just one of its meanings
Adams Rubble: gets in the way of exploraation
Bertram Jacobus: but we have values, don´t we ?
Riddle Sideways: even "values" donot have tobe always good vs bad
doug Sosa: yes, but values should be handled lightly.
Bertram Jacobus: hi fael ... :-)
Wol Euler: hello fael
Adams Rubble: Hello Fael
Riddle Sideways: Hi Fael
doug Sosa: when underlying values there is anger we are in trouble.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams, Wol, Bert, Doug, Eliza, Riddle, Davina :)
doug Sosa: hi.
Riddle Sideways: to observe without placing values, jdgements on the events
Riddle Sideways: is very hard
Riddle Sideways: takes praactice
doug Sosa: I never met something i didn't like I couldn't also benefit from exploring, even liking.
Fael Illyar: it takes practise to start doing it but ... well, we all have that.
Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
Wol Euler: hello pema
Bertram Jacobus: i have impressions a bit according to that what wol wrote : first there can be observation, then the values "come" ...
Adams Rubble: Good Morning Pema
Riddle Sideways: morning Pema
Bertram Jacobus: hi pema ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
Wol Euler: ideally yes, bertram, to see what is really there before trying to put a box around it
Wol Euler: because boxes get in the way of full understanding if they get applied to early
Fael Illyar: I remember hearing this some day "to judge is to stop observing."
Riddle Sideways: is the ideal way to do it, but sometimes...
Wol Euler: of course :)
Bertram Jacobus: very interesting sentence fael ! i take it for observation ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: interesting*

I suggest an Art Historical approach (while listening to scientists everywhere gasp at my audacity)

Adams Rubble: We can still test hypotheses
Riddle Sideways: form a hypothteses, setup experiment, observe, record, then analyse results
Riddle Sideways: is ideal order on events
Riddle Sideways: too many re-arrange the order
Pema Pera: sorry, Riddle, I didn't get the last sentence?
Fael Illyar: yes... all for the purpose of feeling safe.
Adams Rubble: Thinking this way, easier to see how judgments interfere
Fael Illyar: or at least, safer
doug Sosa: In science we have arrived at a point where what gets univited to the experiment looks more and more interesting.
Riddle Sideways: sorry pema, am going on about putting judgements before the cart
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: "too many re-arrange the order"?
Pema Pera: or did something drop out (I have a slow connection)
Bertram Jacobus: no
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways hopes the editor fixes my speelings and makes my chat intellible

could not resist the previous statement (thanks Riddle)

Wol Euler: I understood "too many people rearrange the order of events"
Bertram Jacobus: one could ask also : in which way for example, people rearrange this order ?
Pema Pera: (ah, okay, got it Wol :-) -- and yes, Riddle, I like that order!
Adams Rubble: The editor will do what is possible with speelings and unintellibles
Riddle Sideways: :)
Pema Pera: theory and experiment in physics -- vision and practice in meditation
Wol Euler grins at Adams
Pema Pera: either one won't do
Pema Pera: by itself
Pema Pera: :)
doug Sosa: cross connections are rich.

Riddle gives an example of pre-judgments clouding

Riddle Sideways: e.g. I read (almost daily) of [such-n-such] report that shows that the numbers produced by [un-related]study suppose the judgements that (some minority) is truely inferrior
Riddle Sideways: published by (already made up their minds] group
doug Sosa: example?
Adams Rubble wonders what Riddles reads :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Wol Euler: political journals and newspapers, I guess :)
Riddle Sideways will not give reall example, because some of my minoritys might pick on your minoritiues
Adams Rubble: sorry to interfere with your point about judgments Riddle
Wol Euler: :)
Riddle Sideways: NP
Riddle Sideways reads "the Quibbler" (or whatever that newpaper that harry potters friend luna publishes)
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: point mightbe that while watching our thoughts, maybewe should watch how many are judgements
doug Sosa: From the quibbler front page "The Quibbler prints wild, silly, and bizarre stories about famous people, particularly involving conspiracy theories"
Adams Rubble giggles
Pema Pera: perhaps every thought is a judgment, to some degree . . . .
Pema Pera: clothed as they are in concepts
doug Sosa: just by chosing to be instead of being another thought?
Fael Illyar: in a way, yes. I reserve word judgement to mean something more permanent though.
doug Sosa: Yes, it seems like an extra on top of, pushing, a thought.
Riddle Sideways: yes, Ilike "pushing a thought"
doug Sosa: like I notice that the water reflects the changing color of the sky but does not reflect us.
Wol Euler: (it will do if your preferences allow it, doug :)
doug Sosa: But behind that there is for me a judgement about the conversation.
Fael Illyar: not this water :)
doug Sosa: I can change that in preferences?
Fael Illyar: but the sea water :)
Wol Euler: ah, yes, that is true. This here is not "water".
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: preferences depend on POV too
Riddle Sideways was going to write how nice it would be to have preference settings panel and wardrobe of avs for RL
Bertram Jacobus: what is POV, please ?
Riddle Sideways: but maybe we do have them
Adams Rubble: Point of view
Riddle Sideways: sorry Point Of View
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay ty
Bertram Jacobus: i seem to be the only one who did not know ...
Bertram Jacobus: or forgot again ...
Eliza Madrigal: You mean we go out into the day looking for something we've already in mind, Riddle?
Riddle Sideways: NP, BTW some might not
Riddle Sideways: :)
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Fael Illyar: Bert, don't worry too much, you can't know every word there is :)
Fael Illyar: neither can anyone else :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: maybe Eliza
Adams Rubble: :)
Riddle Sideways: there are schools of thought that think that
Wol Euler: :)
Bertram Jacobus: i like to admit that i like "perfection" ... ;-) - or at least the idea "perfection" ... :o)
Riddle Sideways: but, you could put yourself in a frame that you go out NOT looking for something... and find it
Fael Illyar: Hi Yakuzza :)
Bertram Jacobus: hi yaku ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Adams Rubble: Hello Yakuzza
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Yakuzza
Riddle Sideways: Hi Yak
Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, neat point Riddle :)
Pema Pera: sorry, breakfast call in RL . . . .
Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema
Bertram Jacobus: have a nice time pema ...
Riddle Sideways: ok, bye Pema
doug Sosa: Pema has such great gestures.
Pema Pera: bye for now
Pema Pera: :-)

Eliza suddenly stood too

doug Sosa: but so does eliza :)
Riddle Sideways: so does Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hha...moved the chat box too close to the 'stand' button
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: lol

What followed was a real appearance mystery. Davina's hair was missing on most computers. Not mine. We spend some time sorting that out and Wol offers suggestions

Wol Euler notices that Davina and Yakuzza seem to be related.
Eliza Madrigal: (I try to position it right in the middle of everyone)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, same favorite shop
Riddle Sideways: do you go to the same av-dresser?
Eliza Madrigal: like Fael and I :)
doug Sosa: I'd love to know what you say to the dresser, "I'd like to look like....?"
Davina Bazylinska: I have no idea how this happened! I had hair last time I showed up in SL...
Riddle Sideways: you had hair when you first rezed
Adams Rubble: You have beautiful hair on my screen Davina
Davina Bazylinska: I do?!
Adams Rubble: yes
Wol Euler: wow
Riddle Sideways: ah to have Adam'sscreen toward life :)
Adams Rubble was wondering what Wol was talking about
Davina Bazylinska: Wait, you're gaslighting me, aren't you?
Adams Rubble: ?
Wol Euler: um, no. I see you dressed entirely in black except for your head. no hair. black eyes
Eliza Madrigal has Wol vision
Wol Euler: I'll give you screenshot
Fael Illyar smiles.
Davina Bazylinska: I'm actually quite freaked out by my metamorphosis. I can only see myself from the back, but I can't even begin to imagine how ghoulish my face might look.
doug Sosa: you look like a novice buddhist :)
doug Sosa: Elegant and vulnerable.
Davina Bazylinska: This is actually quite an interesting experiment in the role of identity. My appearance is totally throwing me off. I'm feeling extremely disturbed and uncomfortable.
Wol Euler: ah, ok. hold the alt key down, and click-and-hold on yourself.
Wol Euler: then move thge mouose slowly left and right to rotate around yourself
Wol Euler: moving up or down zooms inand out
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: slowly being one of the importatn parts
Adams Rubble: I sent you a picture Davina
Davina Bazylinska: Not sure how to view it. Should I hit "Keep"?
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: and then double click on it in your inventory
Riddle Sideways: very interesting that we all concentrated on the camera lens rather then "seeing"
Adams Rubble: Well maybe Riddle but her hair is there whatever you all think you are seeing :)
Adams Rubble giggles
Riddle Sideways: how much does it matter what AV we wear?
Davina Bazylinska: That's bizarre. How come I'm bald from my POV, but not from yours? Are you people doing some sort of hocus pocus here in PaB to make some kind of metaphysical point?
Adams Rubble: I agree Riddle
Adams Rubble: but still when one works on an appearance and it is not there is disconcerting to some degree
Wol Euler: um, no, therre is a solution. Do you hzave a quarter-hour after the session? We can fix it then
Riddle Sideways: are Pema's statements to be judged merely on the length (and unwashed-ness) of the hair?
Davina Bazylinska: Yes, definitely.
doug Sosa: yes, they are. Pema's hair length suggests that he is open and loose, compared to RL. Hence his thoughts can be assumed to be rather open.
Riddle Sideways: ty doug
Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave. have a good time and may all beings be happy please. ty for the session
doug Sosa: ciao
Adams Rubble: Thank you Bertram. bye for now
Davina Bazylinska: Integration of body and mind. When my body is messed up, my mind freaks out.
Riddle Sideways: bye Bertram and thanks
Wol Euler: bye bertram, take care
Fael Illyar: Bye Bert :)
Bertram Jacobus: ty all again ... :-)
doug Sosa: interesting that we can even think the bits on the screen are "my body", but we do.
Riddle Sideways: image the celebs at oscar night who dress up so carefully then make the worst dressed list
Wol Euler: very muc so, doug :)
Davina Bazylinska: I'm going to have to go in minute too. Will my avatar be back to normal next time I pop back in?
Wol Euler: possibly; if not IM me and we can sort you out.
Wol Euler: what you can do is to clear cache before you log out, and reboot yozur computer completely.
Riddle Sideways sees a line forming for Wol to "sort us out"
Davina Bazylinska: How do I clear cache?
Wol Euler: "edit" menu, "preferences",
doug Sosa: I wish wol could sort me out, oh not appreaance, but reality :)
Fael Illyar: :P
Wol Euler: third tab "network", click on "clear cache"
Wol Euler: the log out and reboot. that might be enough on its own, else we can fix you :)
doug Sosa: gad, the time. gottago. Bye.
Davina Bazylinska: Hmm... I don't see a clear cache button.
Adams Rubble: bye doug
Wol Euler: mm, let me check atain, that was from memory.
Wol Euler: yes, the tab called "network", there is a slider "disk cache size", beside tha
Davina Bazylinska: Got it -- thanks so much, Wol! Bye, everyone! Nice seeing you all.
Adams Rubble wodners what we would do without Wol and Fael in the group to help us out :)
Wol Euler: good luck! see you around.
Riddle Sideways: bye Davina
Adams Rubble: bye Davina :)
Eliza Madrigal does not want to know...very thankful :)
Riddle Sideways: wish I could clear cache, but some images and songs are stuck in my head
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: bye Riddle :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye riddle
Fael Illyar: See you later Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: need to go too, bye all andd thank you
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Riddle :)
Wol Euler: ah, missed him too. Too many distractions today
Fael Illyar: It really is a distractionfull day
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal nods... yes very
Fael Illyar: something is clearly afoot :P
Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm.... looks around
Fael Illyar: something that each of us can only see a small part of :P
Wol Euler: "life"?
Eliza Madrigal grins
Adams Rubble: I had some for breaakfast
Fael Illyar smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: Woo Hoo, Hi Hades the entrance-maker :)
Fael Illyar: oh, he's gone
Eliza Madrigal: a passerby
Wol Euler: passing like sheep in the night.
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Adams Rubble: Hell in a pool
Adams Rubble: I am afraid I must go now
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Adams, have a good day :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye adams
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Adams Rubble: I will gather up the log later and fix speelings,etc. :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Yakuzza :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Oh and bye Yakuzza who is gone
Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
Wol Euler: yes, take care with your speelings.
Adams Rubble: Gake good care firends :)
Adams Rubble: whoops
Fael Illyar will gake good care.
Adams Rubble: Take
Wol Euler laughs. bye, be happy.
Adams Rubble: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: hah, Bye :)
Adams Rubble: speeaking of speelings
Eliza Madrigal should go too... doesn't quite feel she even arrived today :)
Fael Illyar smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye guys, maybe see you later :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Eliza :)
Fael Illyar: have fun :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks! You too!
Wol Euler: damn, missing everyone today.
Fael Illyar: oh well :)
Fael Illyar: That's fine :)