2009.08.10 19:00 - Gruntled

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database. Maxine appears to have been the guardian.

    doug Sosa: hi maxine.

    Maxine Walden: hi, doug

    Maxine Walden: nice to see you again

    doug Sosa: yes, you too. i seem to always sit on your left side, this is different.

    Maxine Walden: ah, I had not noticed, sorry. I was just going to move a bit closer, feeling just a bit distant, if that does not seem too 'forward'


    doug Sosa: just fine, please.

    doug Sosa: better.

    Maxine Walden: yes, better

    doug Sosa: we were talking last night about the old pavillion, and someone made the pond dissapear, etc.

    Maxine Walden: oh?

    Maxine Walden: the old pavilion with the river around it?

    doug Sosa: like that.

    Maxine Walden: well, look what you did?

    Maxine Walden: did!

    Maxine Walden: how did you do that?

    doug Sosa: did indeed.


    The magic incantation is revealed!


    Maxine Walden: hi Paradise

    Maxine Walden: ah, yes, thanks

    doug Sosa: wow paradise.

    Paradise Tennant: hiya doug .. maxine :))

    doug Sosa: hi

    Maxine Walden: hi Fox

    Fox Monacular: hi everyone

    Paradise Tennant: hiya fox

    doug Sosa: i am still naive enough i am spooked by such a presence.

    Maxine Walden: Fox does have an other worldly outfit...and with no face showing...feels a bit like Halloween

    Fox Monacular: yes, it's a "no face" character from an animation 'spirited away'

    Maxine Walden: ah, thanks for the explanation

    Maxine Walden: hi, 3D

    doug Sosa: hi three

    Fox Monacular: hi Threedee

    Paradise Tennant: hiya 3d :)

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Folks, sorry I'm late

    Maxine Walden: hi, Adelene

    Fox Monacular: hi Adelene

    doug Sosa: hi ade

    Paradise Tennant: hello adelene :)

    Fox Monacular: what happened to the pond?

    Threedee Shepherd: It's optional

    Maxine Walden: it got canceled; doug was showing me tricks

    doug Sosa: doug made it dissapeare, but i shouldn't bring it back

    Adelene Dawner: Hi, folks :)

    doug Sosa: with you guys in it :)

    Threedee Shepherd: hehe

    Maxine Walden: doug is tempting the big cats' wrath?

    doug Sosa: can't be an intent cause he did it before they arrived.

    Maxine Walden: right...

    doug Sosa: the little wall that holds the water always feels to me like a barrier.

    Threedee Shepherd: True, but changing back would be intent :>

    doug Sosa: splash yes.

    doug Sosa: i am really a 12 year old girl.

    Paradise Tennant: ;)

    Maxine Walden: lots of guises today...

    doug Sosa: if these are guises, what are dis-guises?

    Maxine Walden: hmmm

    Threedee Shepherd: doug, I was thinking the same question ;D

    Maxine Walden: is that like the word 'sanction' which means opposites at the same time?

    doug Sosa: sanction?

    Threedee Shepherd: hmm, allow and censure

    Maxine Walden: yes, 3D. Sorry for the leap in thought

    doug Sosa: hey three that was quick!

    Threedee Shepherd: I have always wondered what the word gruntled means, if one can be disgruntled?

    Maxine Walden: yes, puzzling

    doug Sosa: i love those words that makes sense but taking off a part the remains seem never to be used.

    Maxine Walden: or dismayed

    doug Sosa: I am a 12 year old mayed

    Maxine Walden: hahah

    Maxine Walden: (about to go on with that word play, but restraining myself).

    doug Sosa: display as being

    Maxine Walden: hehehe, yes

    Fox Monacular: i play my avatar sometimes

    Maxine Walden: like a musical instrument?


    Paradise Tennant: * Main Entry: grun·tle * Pronunciation: \ˈgrÉ™n-tÉ™l\ * Function: transitive verb * Inflected Form(s): grun·tled; grun·tling \ˈgrÉ™nt-liÅ‹, ˈgrÉ™n-tÉ™l-iÅ‹\ * Etymology: back-formation from disgruntle * Date: 1926 : to put in a good humor 

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Fox Monacular: :)

    doug Sosa: wow.

    Threedee Shepherd: I believe the red herring here is "dis", which in not a prefix root in some other languages from which English has borroweed.

    Paradise Tennant: love words that sound like what they mean :)) gruntled sounds "well - satisfied"

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    doug Sosa: whnce comes it? Isn't it working as in dis-gusting, gust as in gustatory?

    doug Sosa: or dis-harmony.

    Maxine Walden: word detectives

    Threedee Shepherd: No, the statement that it is a back-formation means disgruntled existed before the word gruntled was coined

    Paradise Tennant: :) yes

    doug Sosa: right, but that can't be for dis-harmony.

    Paradise Tennant: disgruntled took off .. and sadly left its positive behind :)

    doug Sosa: we are about to get anatomical.

    Paradise Tennant: * Main Entry: dis·har·mo·ny * Pronunciation: \-nē\ * Function: noun * Date: circa 1602 : lack of harmony : discord — dis·har·mon·ic \-här-ˈmä-nik\ adjective

    Paradise Tennant: so what was our topic tonight ?

    Maxine Walden: seems we are meandering so far

    doug Sosa: the pond, but we dis'ed it.

    Fox Monacular: i like to ponder on the pond

    Fox Monacular: it was nice

    doug Sosa: dry spell.

    Paradise Tennant: water as a reflection ... of ...

    Fox Monacular: or a repository of...

    doug Sosa: those sit onthe other side, but that's the problem, this pond has no refletions!!

    Fox Monacular: but there might be something inside...

    Maxine Walden: this may be an interesting example of the pond having different meanings/impacts on different individuals

    Threedee Shepherd: I think it may be a pool, not a pond

    Maxine Walden: to doug I believe it seems at times a barrier, to others a lovely water feature

    Paradise Tennant: life is perception

    doug Sosa: to me both.

    Threedee Shepherd: or, perception is life

    Fox Monacular: ouch, a pool is a whole other thing

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Threedee Shepherd: Thoreau may have swum in a pool near Walden, but he lived at Walden Pond

    Hana Furlough: hi everyone

    doug Sosa: hi hana

    Fox Monacular: Hi Hana

    Paradise Tennant: hello hana

    Paradise Tennant: ;)

    Threedee Shepherd: hello, Is this your first time here, Hana?

    Hana Furlough: oh no i just don't usually make it to the 7 p.m.

    Hana Furlough: it's very nice to meet you

    Threedee Shepherd: Bad spelling though

    doug Sosa: the subject this evening was my anxiety at sitting with beautiful women, a spirit and two very large carnivors.

    Threedee Shepherd: and you

    Hana Furlough: the lions are pretty incredible

    Fox Monacular: yes, I'm staring at the lions too

    Maxine Walden: lol, doug

    Fox Monacular: nice sound

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    Paradise Tennant: smiles not sure I would be too worried about two large carnivores who come complete with a cozy kitty bed :)

    doug Sosa: the lions are credible and i am edible

    Hana Furlough: lol both is good

    Maxine Walden: doug, great comeback!


    doug Sosa: i am just bytes of bits.

    Paradise Tennant: in an earlier session .. we were trying to observe .. how physical senses and how thought arose and dissipated in the 90 seconds of silence .. anyone interested in trying that tonight ?

    Paradise Tennant: *our

    doug Sosa: yes

    Hana Furlough: yeah let's do it

    Paradise Tennant: okies

    Paradise Tennant: so on the next round of silence .. we just try to be aware .. :)

    Fox Monacular: so like in meditation?

    Paradise Tennant: hmm yes

    Paradise Tennant: what happens when you try to be still .. quiet

    Threedee Shepherd: I do not regularly meditate beyond the 9-sec. Thus, for me to be "meditative" for 90 second is not yet achievable

    doug Sosa: its just ten 9 sec in a row.

    Paradise Tennant: hmm if you take in a long very slow breath and let it out equally slowly . .that is mediation . usually longer than 9 secs

    Hana Furlough: do you think you can just watch your thoughts?

    Threedee Shepherd: but not 90

    Paradise Tennant: hmmyep

    Paradise Tennant: ::))

    Paradise Tennant: not attach to them

    doug Sosa: or have th thoghts watch you. Pema does tht with paintings and other objects.

    Paradise Tennant: just watch them like clouds

    Threedee Shepherd: You can watch or think, but not both truly simultaneously, I suggest

    Paradise Tennant: hmm

    Paradise Tennant: think a better term is experience ..

    Fox Monacular: I think that we often think without volitional control, that's why this excercise can be so revealing

    Hana Furlough: why don't yo experiment a little and see

    Threedee Shepherd: what IS thinking?

    Paradise Tennant: because it is not just cognitive .. but very much tied to your senses

    doug Sosa: so lie the first tging hat came to mind ws the reflection of the light everyone. i hadn't "seen" it before.

    doug Sosa: thing that.

    doug Sosa: then i think, itsnot reflection, its the setting sun.

    doug Sosa: or rising moon?

    Hana Furlough: what do you mean by the reflection of the light?

    Paradise Tennant: hm labeling .. identifying is cognition .. feeling the warm of the sun on your skin is experience

    doug Sosa: you can see it on the edges of us, we are lit on one side but not the other.

    Paradise Tennant: we are so .. cognitively oriented .. we often lose the experiential .. side of just being

    Fox Monacular: it is difficult to separate cognition and sensation or perception...

    Hana Furlough: do you mean like an aura or energy?

    Fox Monacular: you feel the warmth, and then in no time you think "how nice, i'm experiencing now'

    Paradise Tennant: hmm think there are layers .. and you can focus on the thoughts and you can focus on the experience without labeling or subjective judgement ..and not hard to do

    Paradise Tennant: end up with thoughts still ..just really really simple ones !

    Paradise Tennant: like warm sun

    Hana Furlough: that's okay

    Paradise Tennant: ;)

    Hana Furlough: me too

    Hana Furlough: and i just keep going

    Hana Furlough: for me, warm sun is part of the process of appreciation

    Hana Furlough: it's not a judgement, just an expression of what i'm experiencing

    Paradise Tennant: yes


    Threedee Shepherd: Every consciously perceived external input starts as a pure experience, and I think it becomes the subject of thought and cognition almost instantly thereafter

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Paradise Tennant: it is a big almost :)

    doug Sosa: maybe it is thought reacing out for something to latch onto and make something of.. maybe the thoughtis in action first.

    Threedee Shepherd: Interesting thought Doug. I see no reason that could not happen.

    doug Sosa: thought is a witing tiger and sensations naive chickens.

    Fox Monacular: yes, it is perhaps what buddhists often refer to as 'wild mind'

    doug Sosa: waiting.

    Paradise Tennant: monkey mind

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Fox Monacular: yes, i heard both

    Fox Monacular: :)

    Fox Monacular: one teacher talked about mind as a wild elephant even:)

    Paradise Tennant: then there is the calm abiding ... the sensation everyone can get for a few seconds with the slow focused release of one's breath

    Paradise Tennant: a deep deep calm feeling

    Maxine Walden: dear friends, RL is calling so I had better go. Thanks for the good discussion. Hope to see you again soon.

    Paradise Tennant: good nite maxine :)

    Threedee Shepherd: bye Maxine

    Maxine Walden: bye all

    Fox Monacular: bye Maxine

    doug Sosa: yes, bye. I'll sit for a few more minues.

    Hana Furlough: bye maxine

    Hana Furlough: so do you think there comes a point when we can completely get past monkey mind?

    Fox Monacular: that's enlightenment

    Paradise Tennant: yes

    Fox Monacular: :)

    doug Sosa: not without being dead.

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Hana Furlough: lol

    Hana Furlough: but is enlightenment a practice or a continuous state?

    Paradise Tennant: hmmm kind of a portal of perception that once your really see .. forever changes your perception would be my guess

    Fox Monacular: roshi Joan Halifax said that enlightenment is a state of absolune unselfishness

    Paradise Tennant: but very easy to take monkey mind breaks

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Paradise Tennant: very restful too

    Fox Monacular: yes, definitely

    Hana Furlough: good point

    doug Sosa: i think - controversial - that enlightenment is pure mind without feelings. It is devloid of humanity or compassion. It is isness without anything else. it is a computer waiting to wait.

    Paradise Tennant: hmm

    Hana Furlough: or just absolute compassion

    Paradise Tennant: absolute connectedness

    Hana Furlough: yeah

    Hana Furlough: connectedness because you are everything and everything is you

    Threedee Shepherd: Is it pure mind without feelings, or pure experience without mind?

    Paradise Tennant: yes

    doug Sosa: and that is the universe and it is itself.

    Paradise Tennant: you are everything and everything is you .. such powerful words hana

    Hana Furlough: its thusness

    Fox Monacular: my monkey mind needs to rest... I've got to go sleep now, nice talking to you all

    Hana Furlough: haha nice!

    Paradise Tennant: good nite fox .. sleep well

    Threedee Shepherd: night, fox

    doug Sosa: bye.

    Fox Monacular: good night everyone

    Hana Furlough: good night fox!


    doug Sosa: The wonderful mystery of play and seriousness among friends here.

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Hana Furlough: that's it, that's it

    doug Sosa: i think I'll rise and go now.

    Paradise Tennant: :) good nite doug

    Hana Furlough: have a great night, doug

    doug Sosa: thanks!

    Paradise Tennant: I have a little dog who is of like mind :))

    Paradise Tennant: Thank you all .. as always :))

    Threedee Shepherd: nite

    Hana Furlough: thanks everyone!

    Hana Furlough: bye~

    Threedee Shepherd: bye

    Paradise Tennant: good night all big wave from toronto :)

    Adelene Dawner: 'night :)

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