2009.08.12 13:00 - Words, don't come easy

The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

Yakuzza Lethecus: nabend wol
Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
Wol Euler: oh, beter change my dress :) wore this yesterday
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t care about the outfits around second life usually, but sure i consider some avatars even beautyful
Wol Euler smiles
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Wol Euler: hello bertram, fefonz
Bertram Jacobus: hello all ... :-)
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bertram
Fefonz Quan: Hey Wol, Bert, Yaku
Wol Euler: how are we all this evening/afternoon/morning?
Fefonz Quan: very good, and you Wol?
Bertram Jacobus: ty. i´m very fine - and you ? :-)
Wol Euler: tired but happy, which seems to be my usual response these days :)
Fefonz Quan: sounds good :)
Fefonz Quan: i am tired but very bisy :)
Fefonz Quan: busy*
Wol Euler: :)
Fefonz Quan: I use this quiet occasion to say that i am going to be (mostly) afk for the next 2-3 weeks, so a replacement of this guardian slot will be most welcomed
Wol Euler: I can almost certainly take at least some of those, fefonz, since I'm usually here anyway
Fefonz Quan: thanks, that'll be great. coming to think about it, in 3 weeks i should be back hee, though from another continent
Bertram Jacobus: hello randolph ... :-)
Wol Euler: have you started packing already?
Wol Euler: or sorting and sifting?
Bertram Jacobus: take a seat if you like randolph (?) :-)
Fefonz Quan: i am in a jungle of things and packages and more h=thing to pack and write and organize and sort...
Wol Euler smiles
Fefonz Quan: there are 3 levels of different packing, imagine that
Wol Euler: !
Wol Euler: press the "up" arrow to walk forwards
Wol Euler: there!
Wol Euler: now right-click on a cushion and select "sit" from the pie menu
Fefonz Quan: Hey Randolph
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello randolph
Randolph Rothmanay: THanks..at least I'm nearby...can I sit anywhere?
Wol Euler: now right-click on a cushion and select "sit" from the pie menu
Wol Euler: you can use the left and right arrow keys to turn around
Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks, I think I'll just have to stand here 'til I figure it out...please continue! (sorryto interrrupt)
Wol Euler: press the left arrow a few times
Wol Euler: you will turn around, and can see us then
Wol Euler: ah, you are holding down the "shift" key too. don't do that, JUST hte left arrow
--BELL--
Randolph Rothmanay: OK this is ridiculous, I'm here and I think you were discussing the conference
Bertram Jacobus: [90 seconds silence ... sry] ... :-)
Wol Euler waves it aside with a smile
Bertram Jacobus: and sorry : my english sometimes is only poor ...
Bertram Jacobus: and i fear sometimes i experience or even cause some misunderstandings because of that ...
Randolph Rothmanay: I've only been hear once before but I know several members; I have begun to think PasB might be very worthwhile in my life...
Wol Euler: Randolph, I have a great idea. Let's go off a ways and I wil try to sort you out.
Wol Euler: follow me
Fefonz Quan: So Bert, i guess that cause you to think before you speak, sound like a good thing :)
Fefonz Quan: causes*
Bertram Jacobus: fefonz, i think a lot about our former talk and am not very content with it because it was / is so uncomplete until now, but as i explained just before now, my english is sometimes not good enough, especially for topics where precision is important ...
Fefonz Quan: i believe this obstacle can be overcome
Bertram Jacobus: and i started to write some text in relation to it to try to explain more ...
Bertram Jacobus: but i have problems with continuity also ...
Bertram Jacobus: and there are SOME aspects i guess which should be mentioned or discussed in relation to it
Bertram Jacobus: for the otheres : it was the question, wheather emptness could be good -
Bertram Jacobus: what i have in mind at the moment, would be : may i ask, wheather you practise some sorts of meditation fef and if yes, which ones ?
Fefonz Quan: not in a very disciplined manner, i practice vipassana and also the practices that we discuss here, PaB, APA, YSBS etc.
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay ! ty ! ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, i tried to solve the acronym ysbs :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ysbs (Youth Sunday Bible Studies)
Bertram Jacobus: for the moment, i´m in fact a bit too afraid to take up the talk about that very complex topic again and would prefer to write first some thoughts down - could be use a long time till it is done - sry please about all that ...
Fefonz Quan: well, it is You seeing/Being seeing
Fefonz Quan: no need to apoloize.
Fefonz Quan: apologize* Bert
Fefonz Quan: you can say/discuss it more lightly i guess too if you like
Bertram Jacobus: ty. but i would like to say also : all i said, was thought before for sure. but my problem is really the language and as i described - so misunderstandings and uncomplete sights may occure in my writings. shall not happen again. i learn, especially also with use of the english language in such braod areas of discussions. never did that before
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: i see. yes it is difficult, for me also sometimes, to pronounce in english subtle ideas that call for semantic accuracy
Fox Monacular: hello everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fox
Bertram Jacobus: [hello fox] [90 secs]
Fefonz Quan: Hello Fox, didn't recognize you at first :)
Fefonz Quan: we were discussing the difficulties in engaging in our comversations here for non-natural english speakers
Fox Monacular: yes, I had a makeover:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: fef: is ur first language english or hebrew ?
Fox Monacular: yes, I can relate to that
Fefonz Quan: heb.
Fox Monacular: but it's the same for me now as any other discourse...
Fox Monacular: I speak english to my husband too... but russian to my baby
Yakuzza Lethecus: i try not even to think of using a foreign language when i speak or write english, obviously i have trouble and berts english is very elaborated in what i´ve read so far
Fox Monacular: hello Wol
Fefonz Quan: wb Wol
Wol Euler: hello fox, nice to meet you at last. I've heard your name :)
Fox Monacular: I've heard yours too:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think somehow to think about the use of the language i am using at the time when i try to talk or write makes me very wired
Fox Monacular: nice to meet you
Fox Monacular: wired? in what sense?
Fefonz Quan: (meeting of the 3-letter o-centered at last ;-))
Wol Euler: ((Randolph did not give permission, better remove her name from the logs))
Fefonz Quan: ok, thanks Wol.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have the issue that i learned english pretty natively after school, my orthography isn´t very well i can´t talk about grammar very well but i can use the language without any efford now
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: practice :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
Fox Monacular: hello Gaya
Fefonz Quan: Hey Gaya :)
Wol Euler: awww :)
Bertram Jacobus: helllo gaya ... :-)
Wol Euler: nice av, gaya!
Fox Monacular: yes, I understand that Yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: but as soon as i start even watching into old books i get the same negative emotions about the english language as i had back in school
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :)
Fox Monacular: what's your first landuage?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t talk about timeforms
Yakuzza Lethecus: german
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am very interested in chomsky and language acuisition
Yakuzza Lethecus: acquisition
Yakuzza Lethecus: but really i can´t even write the german language very well and explain the things i am using and doing
Fox Monacular: interesting
Fox Monacular: right, it's the same for me
Fefonz Quan: i also wanted to read chomsky once, mybe i will someday...
Fox Monacular: for me languages became sort of compartmentalized... for example I went to university in English, so certain things I cant even translate into russian
Fox Monacular: or french...
Wol Euler: wb Randolph. If you can see a cushion, right-click on it and select "sit"
Fox Monacular: or the scientific things, all the articles are in English, so I often have a lot of trouble explaining my rusian friends what I do
Yakuzza Lethecus: right, i think i can even think about some topics in english more freely since i hear most of the lectures and podcasts i am interested in in english
Fox Monacular: and then, at work I speak mostly french, so certain technical things, and some things about sleep are easy in french
Wol Euler nods
Fefonz Quan: Yes, agree with fox, i also have no problems with technical/scientific english
Randolph Rothmanay: don't mind me...I just flew to Hyde Park London and was totally lost
Fefonz Quan: but more 'human' conversation (mostly that with high language like PaB, as i found...) is much more difficult
Wol Euler: :)
Fox Monacular: and now that I have a baby, I can't 'baby-talk' in any other language than russian
Wol Euler smiles broadly
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: acvtually, Randolph, if you are going to stay: we rcord and publish these sessions on our website. May we have your permission to include your name and comments in the published log?
--BELL--
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... must be lagging again. I don't see my typing, brb
Yakuzza Lethecus: i guess everyone here is ,,not thinking in his native language" while writing here ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: except wol :)
Randolph Rothmanay: Yes, ..yes, please feel free to record
Wol Euler twitches Gaya
Wol Euler: #s tail and giggles
Fox Monacular: I also thought that I would never be able to have a non-russian life partner:) but it's actually no problem:)
Gaya Ethaniel: :P
Wol Euler smiles.
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... I think in the language I speak mostly.
Randolph Rothmanay: is anyone here coming to the conference?
Fefonz Quan: yey! :)
Wol Euler: sadly, not I.
Fefonz Quan: i hope you mean the retreat :)
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t know anything about a conference (?) ...
Bertram Jacobus: ah. the retrat ?
Randolph Rothmanay: yes, I meant retreat
Gaya Ethaniel: SL conference or PaB retreat?
Bertram Jacobus: ok
Randolph Rothmanay: PaB retreat
Wol Euler: ooh, damn, aren't they both the same week, and both in California?
Fox Monacular: it sounds really exciting
Bertram Jacobus: to far away for me and i´m quite new here ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Can't make it unfortunately.
Wol Euler: newness need not be a problem, getting there sure is.
Fefonz Quan: which conference are we talking about?
Gaya Ethaniel: Would be nice to have a location friendly for people in Europe also in the future.
Bertram Jacobus: sometimes i fear i disturb people ...
Wol Euler: there is a SL conference, the annual beanfight, happening soonishly.
Fefonz Quan nods to Gaya
Bertram Jacobus: yes gaya. that would be great.
Wol Euler: agreed.
Randolph Rothmanay: Sorry I interrupted..you were discussing thinking, speaking, maybe dreaming in your native langugage and difficulties with expressions of astract or subtle thoughts in English
Randolph Rothmanay: oh, I mean "abstract"
Fox Monacular: i'm not sure in what language i dream anymore...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bertram Jacobus: my dreams mostly seem not to have text ... ;-) (but i remember very few dreams anyway for sake) ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: i even dream in english, i even dream of second life, i dream of everything i experienced all day
Fox Monacular: everything:)?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, i hope not :)
Wol Euler: :)
Fox Monacular: :)
Bertram Jacobus: not for sake - unfortunately i meant (!) ... :o)
Fox Monacular: I have dreams that I go back to Russia, but forget how to speak Russian...
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I'm still standing - Rezz faster Linden !
Fox Monacular: or that I have an exam, and when I open the book, it's in some unknown language
Randolph Rothmanay: Oh , good, I'm not the only one!
Fefonz Quan: When i visited my home ately, i thanked the waiters in english...
Wol Euler: :)
Fox Monacular: :)
Bertram Jacobus: no prob at all i think gaya. standing, sitting ... the tibetans call it "the four states of being" or similar : sitting, standing, lying, walking ... ;-)
Wol Euler: I do that, I talk to bus drivers in the wrong language nearly everywhere I go :)
Fefonz Quan: hope they get you to the right destination wol :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Fox Monacular: I talk to my husband in russian sometimes... and don't understand why he pretends he didn't hear me ask him to open the window for example
Wol Euler: :)
Randolph Rothmanay: Yes, (re:positions of the body), those are the categories Tibetans use, but it may come from an older Buddhist source
Bertram Jacobus: it´s a form to express a kind of all states one can have is my impression randolph (?) ...
Randolph Rothmanay: I think perhaps to aid mindfulness of the body
Wol Euler: ah, but what language(s) do you speak to YOURSELF in? :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have to go, good night everyone :(
Wol Euler: goodnight Yakuzza, take care
Bertram Jacobus: good night yakuzza
Randolph Rothmanay: Good night! Be well.
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Yakuzza :)
Fox Monacular: good night Yakuzza
Wol Euler: ciao, mach#s gut :)
Fox Monacular: I speak to myself in english and french sometimes
Gaya Ethaniel: I think I will be off too, missing most of the chat. See you!
Fox Monacular: bye Gaya
Wol Euler: gaya, clear cache, log off, reboot, try again.
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: nite Yaku
Randolph Rothmanay: Hope to see you again
Wol Euler: bye for now, take care
Fefonz Quan: by Randolph
Wol Euler: and bye fox too :)
Fefonz Quan: ,gaya, fox...
Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks for helping me Wol!
Wol Euler: my pleasure, I hope you find a solution.
Randolph Rothmanay: I have a friend here who's very experienced..she said she will also take me shopping...and she can teach me to move around.
Wol Euler: I should go to bed too, it#s been a really long day. Goodnight all, take care, be happy.
Randolph Rothmanay: Sleep well!
Bertram Jacobus: same to you wol
Wol Euler: good luck!
Fefonz Quan: Night Wol!
Wol Euler: fef, in case we don'T meet again: bon voyage!
Randolph Rothmanay: Fefonz ...will you come to the retreat?
Fefonz Quan: Mercy Beaucue
Fefonz Quan: yes i will, will you randolf?
Randolph Rothmanay: I am nearby and could come, but a family problem may prevent it...so I will know more in a few days.
Randolph Rothmanay: I regret interrupting a meaningful discussion, I am not very experienced in SL yet...
Bertram Jacobus: i think that is no problem here randolph - people here are very experienced in integrating all is my impression
Fefonz Quan: no problem
Bertram Jacobus: and if the persons even are so freindly and careful as you are - even more easy then ! .-)
Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks...I am enjoying meeting two animate glowing clouds of light....
Bertram Jacobus: a very well known phenomenon here ... ;-)
Fefonz Quan: i will have to leave soon...
Randolph Rothmanay: I would like to be more successful in visualizing & imagining glowing light
Bertram Jacobus: you practice tantric buddhism randolph ? ... :-)
Randolph Rothmanay: Oh, whenever it is time to go...that is fine with me
Randolph Rothmanay: Well, I cannot say I successfully practice, but I have received these practices and have had some experiences...that is a very complex form of meditative integration, so usually must do simpler things.
Bertram Jacobus: i see ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: okay - so i don´t want to detain anybody - and think, so i leave now too ...
Randolph Rothmanay: Yes, see you again I hope!
Bertram Jacobus: same same was a pleasure :-)
Bertram Jacobus: have a nice time both please
Fefonz Quan: ok, By Randolph, nice meeting you!
Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks!
Fefonz Quan: Bye Bert.