2009.08.12 13:00 - Words, don't come easy

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: nabend wol
    Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
    Wol Euler: oh, beter change my dress :) wore this yesterday
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t care about the outfits around second life usually, but sure i consider some avatars even beautyful
    Wol Euler smiles
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Wol Euler: hello bertram, fefonz
    Bertram Jacobus: hello all ... :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bertram
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Wol, Bert, Yaku
    Wol Euler: how are we all this evening/afternoon/morning?
    Fefonz Quan: very good, and you Wol?
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. i´m very fine - and you ? :-)
    Wol Euler: tired but happy, which seems to be my usual response these days :)
    Fefonz Quan: sounds good :)
    Fefonz Quan: i am tired but very bisy :)
    Fefonz Quan: busy*
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fefonz Quan: I use this quiet occasion to say that i am going to be (mostly) afk for the next 2-3 weeks, so a replacement of this guardian slot will be most welcomed
    Wol Euler: I can almost certainly take at least some of those, fefonz, since I'm usually here anyway
    Fefonz Quan: thanks, that'll be great. coming to think about it, in 3 weeks i should be back hee, though from another continent
    Bertram Jacobus: hello randolph ... :-)
    Wol Euler: have you started packing already?
    Wol Euler: or sorting and sifting?
    Bertram Jacobus: take a seat if you like randolph (?) :-)
    Fefonz Quan: i am in a jungle of things and packages and more h=thing to pack and write and organize and sort...
    Wol Euler smiles
    Fefonz Quan: there are 3 levels of different packing, imagine that
    Wol Euler: !
    Wol Euler: press the "up" arrow to walk forwards
    Wol Euler: there!
    Wol Euler: now right-click on a cushion and select "sit" from the pie menu
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Randolph
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello randolph
    Randolph Rothmanay: THanks..at least I'm nearby...can I sit anywhere?
    Wol Euler: now right-click on a cushion and select "sit" from the pie menu
    Wol Euler: you can use the left and right arrow keys to turn around
    Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks, I think I'll just have to stand here 'til I figure it out...please continue! (sorryto interrrupt)
    Wol Euler: press the left arrow a few times
    Wol Euler: you will turn around, and can see us then
    Wol Euler: ah, you are holding down the "shift" key too. don't do that, JUST hte left arrow
    Randolph Rothmanay: OK this is ridiculous, I'm here and I think you were discussing the conference
    Bertram Jacobus: [90 seconds silence ... sry] ... :-)
    Wol Euler waves it aside with a smile
    Bertram Jacobus: and sorry : my english sometimes is only poor ...
    Bertram Jacobus: and i fear sometimes i experience or even cause some misunderstandings because of that ...
    Randolph Rothmanay: I've only been hear once before but I know several members; I have begun to think PasB might be very worthwhile in my life...
    Wol Euler: Randolph, I have a great idea. Let's go off a ways and I wil try to sort you out.
    Wol Euler: follow me
    Fefonz Quan: So Bert, i guess that cause you to think before you speak, sound like a good thing :)
    Fefonz Quan: causes*
    Bertram Jacobus: fefonz, i think a lot about our former talk and am not very content with it because it was / is so uncomplete until now, but as i explained just before now, my english is sometimes not good enough, especially for topics where precision is important ...
    Fefonz Quan: i believe this obstacle can be overcome
    Bertram Jacobus: and i started to write some text in relation to it to try to explain more ...
    Bertram Jacobus: but i have problems with continuity also ...
    Bertram Jacobus: and there are SOME aspects i guess which should be mentioned or discussed in relation to it
    Bertram Jacobus: for the otheres : it was the question, wheather emptness could be good -
    Bertram Jacobus: what i have in mind at the moment, would be : may i ask, wheather you practise some sorts of meditation fef and if yes, which ones ?
    Fefonz Quan: not in a very disciplined manner, i practice vipassana and also the practices that we discuss here, PaB, APA, YSBS etc.
    Bertram Jacobus: ah okay ! ty ! ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, i tried to solve the acronym ysbs :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ysbs (Youth Sunday Bible Studies)
    Bertram Jacobus: for the moment, i´m in fact a bit too afraid to take up the talk about that very complex topic again and would prefer to write first some thoughts down - could be use a long time till it is done - sry please about all that ...
    Fefonz Quan: well, it is You seeing/Being seeing
    Fefonz Quan: no need to apoloize.
    Fefonz Quan: apologize* Bert
    Fefonz Quan: you can say/discuss it more lightly i guess too if you like
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. but i would like to say also : all i said, was thought before for sure. but my problem is really the language and as i described - so misunderstandings and uncomplete sights may occure in my writings. shall not happen again. i learn, especially also with use of the english language in such braod areas of discussions. never did that before
    Fefonz Quan: i see. yes it is difficult, for me also sometimes, to pronounce in english subtle ideas that call for semantic accuracy
    Fox Monacular: hello everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fox
    Bertram Jacobus: [hello fox] [90 secs]
    Fefonz Quan: Hello Fox, didn't recognize you at first :)
    Fefonz Quan: we were discussing the difficulties in engaging in our comversations here for non-natural english speakers
    Fox Monacular: yes, I had a makeover:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fef: is ur first language english or hebrew ?
    Fox Monacular: yes, I can relate to that
    Fefonz Quan: heb.
    Fox Monacular: but it's the same for me now as any other discourse...
    Fox Monacular: I speak english to my husband too... but russian to my baby
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i try not even to think of using a foreign language when i speak or write english, obviously i have trouble and berts english is very elaborated in what i´ve read so far
    Fox Monacular: hello Wol
    Fefonz Quan: wb Wol
    Wol Euler: hello fox, nice to meet you at last. I've heard your name :)
    Fox Monacular: I've heard yours too:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think somehow to think about the use of the language i am using at the time when i try to talk or write makes me very wired
    Fox Monacular: nice to meet you
    Fox Monacular: wired? in what sense?
    Fefonz Quan: (meeting of the 3-letter o-centered at last ;-))
    Wol Euler: ((Randolph did not give permission, better remove her name from the logs))
    Fefonz Quan: ok, thanks Wol.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have the issue that i learned english pretty natively after school, my orthography isn´t very well i can´t talk about grammar very well but i can use the language without any efford now
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: practice :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
    Fox Monacular: hello Gaya
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Gaya :)
    Wol Euler: awww :)
    Bertram Jacobus: helllo gaya ... :-)
    Wol Euler: nice av, gaya!
    Fox Monacular: yes, I understand that Yakuzza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but as soon as i start even watching into old books i get the same negative emotions about the english language as i had back in school
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :)
    Fox Monacular: what's your first landuage?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t talk about timeforms
    Yakuzza Lethecus: german
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am very interested in chomsky and language acuisition
    Yakuzza Lethecus: acquisition
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but really i can´t even write the german language very well and explain the things i am using and doing
    Fox Monacular: interesting
    Fox Monacular: right, it's the same for me
    Fefonz Quan: i also wanted to read chomsky once, mybe i will someday...
    Fox Monacular: for me languages became sort of compartmentalized... for example I went to university in English, so certain things I cant even translate into russian
    Fox Monacular: or french...
    Wol Euler: wb Randolph. If you can see a cushion, right-click on it and select "sit"
    Fox Monacular: or the scientific things, all the articles are in English, so I often have a lot of trouble explaining my rusian friends what I do
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right, i think i can even think about some topics in english more freely since i hear most of the lectures and podcasts i am interested in in english
    Fox Monacular: and then, at work I speak mostly french, so certain technical things, and some things about sleep are easy in french
    Wol Euler nods
    Fefonz Quan: Yes, agree with fox, i also have no problems with technical/scientific english
    Randolph Rothmanay: don't mind me...I just flew to Hyde Park London and was totally lost
    Fefonz Quan: but more 'human' conversation (mostly that with high language like PaB, as i found...) is much more difficult
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fox Monacular: and now that I have a baby, I can't 'baby-talk' in any other language than russian
    Wol Euler smiles broadly
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: acvtually, Randolph, if you are going to stay: we rcord and publish these sessions on our website. May we have your permission to include your name and comments in the published log?
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... must be lagging again. I don't see my typing, brb
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i guess everyone here is ,,not thinking in his native language" while writing here ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: except wol :)
    Randolph Rothmanay: Yes, ..yes, please feel free to record
    Wol Euler twitches Gaya
    Wol Euler: #s tail and giggles
    Fox Monacular: I also thought that I would never be able to have a non-russian life partner:) but it's actually no problem:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :P
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... I think in the language I speak mostly.
    Randolph Rothmanay: is anyone here coming to the conference?
    Fefonz Quan: yey! :)
    Wol Euler: sadly, not I.
    Fefonz Quan: i hope you mean the retreat :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i don´t know anything about a conference (?) ...
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. the retrat ?
    Randolph Rothmanay: yes, I meant retreat
    Gaya Ethaniel: SL conference or PaB retreat?
    Bertram Jacobus: ok
    Randolph Rothmanay: PaB retreat
    Wol Euler: ooh, damn, aren't they both the same week, and both in California?
    Fox Monacular: it sounds really exciting
    Bertram Jacobus: to far away for me and i´m quite new here ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Can't make it unfortunately.
    Wol Euler: newness need not be a problem, getting there sure is.
    Fefonz Quan: which conference are we talking about?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Would be nice to have a location friendly for people in Europe also in the future.
    Bertram Jacobus: sometimes i fear i disturb people ...
    Wol Euler: there is a SL conference, the annual beanfight, happening soonishly.
    Fefonz Quan nods to Gaya
    Bertram Jacobus: yes gaya. that would be great.
    Wol Euler: agreed.
    Randolph Rothmanay: Sorry I interrupted..you were discussing thinking, speaking, maybe dreaming in your native langugage and difficulties with expressions of astract or subtle thoughts in English
    Randolph Rothmanay: oh, I mean "abstract"
    Fox Monacular: i'm not sure in what language i dream anymore...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: my dreams mostly seem not to have text ... ;-) (but i remember very few dreams anyway for sake) ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i even dream in english, i even dream of second life, i dream of everything i experienced all day
    Fox Monacular: everything:)?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, i hope not :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: not for sake - unfortunately i meant (!) ... :o)
    Fox Monacular: I have dreams that I go back to Russia, but forget how to speak Russian...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I'm still standing - Rezz faster Linden !
    Fox Monacular: or that I have an exam, and when I open the book, it's in some unknown language
    Randolph Rothmanay: Oh , good, I'm not the only one!
    Fefonz Quan: When i visited my home ately, i thanked the waiters in english...
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: no prob at all i think gaya. standing, sitting ... the tibetans call it "the four states of being" or similar : sitting, standing, lying, walking ... ;-)
    Wol Euler: I do that, I talk to bus drivers in the wrong language nearly everywhere I go :)
    Fefonz Quan: hope they get you to the right destination wol :)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fox Monacular: I talk to my husband in russian sometimes... and don't understand why he pretends he didn't hear me ask him to open the window for example
    Wol Euler: :)
    Randolph Rothmanay: Yes, (re:positions of the body), those are the categories Tibetans use, but it may come from an older Buddhist source
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s a form to express a kind of all states one can have is my impression randolph (?) ...
    Randolph Rothmanay: I think perhaps to aid mindfulness of the body
    Wol Euler: ah, but what language(s) do you speak to YOURSELF in? :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have to go, good night everyone :(
    Wol Euler: goodnight Yakuzza, take care
    Bertram Jacobus: good night yakuzza
    Randolph Rothmanay: Good night! Be well.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Yakuzza :)
    Fox Monacular: good night Yakuzza
    Wol Euler: ciao, mach#s gut :)
    Fox Monacular: I speak to myself in english and french sometimes
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think I will be off too, missing most of the chat. See you!
    Fox Monacular: bye Gaya
    Wol Euler: gaya, clear cache, log off, reboot, try again.
    Fefonz Quan: nite Yaku
    Randolph Rothmanay: Hope to see you again
    Wol Euler: bye for now, take care
    Fefonz Quan: by Randolph
    Wol Euler: and bye fox too :)
    Fefonz Quan: ,gaya, fox...
    Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks for helping me Wol!
    Wol Euler: my pleasure, I hope you find a solution.
    Randolph Rothmanay: I have a friend here who's very experienced..she said she will also take me shopping...and she can teach me to move around.
    Wol Euler: I should go to bed too, it#s been a really long day. Goodnight all, take care, be happy.
    Randolph Rothmanay: Sleep well!
    Bertram Jacobus: same to you wol
    Wol Euler: good luck!
    Fefonz Quan: Night Wol!
    Wol Euler: fef, in case we don'T meet again: bon voyage!
    Randolph Rothmanay: Fefonz ...will you come to the retreat?
    Fefonz Quan: Mercy Beaucue
    Fefonz Quan: yes i will, will you randolf?
    Randolph Rothmanay: I am nearby and could come, but a family problem may prevent it...so I will know more in a few days.
    Randolph Rothmanay: I regret interrupting a meaningful discussion, I am not very experienced in SL yet...
    Bertram Jacobus: i think that is no problem here randolph - people here are very experienced in integrating all is my impression
    Fefonz Quan: no problem
    Bertram Jacobus: and if the persons even are so freindly and careful as you are - even more easy then ! .-)
    Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks...I am enjoying meeting two animate glowing clouds of light....
    Bertram Jacobus: a very well known phenomenon here ... ;-)
    Fefonz Quan: i will have to leave soon...
    Randolph Rothmanay: I would like to be more successful in visualizing & imagining glowing light
    Bertram Jacobus: you practice tantric buddhism randolph ? ... :-)
    Randolph Rothmanay: Oh, whenever it is time to go...that is fine with me
    Randolph Rothmanay: Well, I cannot say I successfully practice, but I have received these practices and have had some experiences...that is a very complex form of meditative integration, so usually must do simpler things.
    Bertram Jacobus: i see ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: okay - so i don´t want to detain anybody - and think, so i leave now too ...
    Randolph Rothmanay: Yes, see you again I hope!
    Bertram Jacobus: same same was a pleasure :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: have a nice time both please
    Fefonz Quan: ok, By Randolph, nice meeting you!
    Randolph Rothmanay: Thanks!
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Bert.
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