2009.08.12 19:00 - Chemically imbalanced evening

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    I arrived to find Lingerer Xaris and Isadora Davidov, both relatively new to PaB so I began with notecards and background of PaB

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello

    Lingerer Xaris: hi

    Lingerer Xaris: this is only my second time here

    stevenaia Michinaga: welcome back

    Lingerer Xaris: thank you

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Isadora, have you been here before?


    Isadora Davidov: Hello...no, I haven't ...and I don't think I can make my avatar sit down...sorry!

    Lingerer Xaris: right click on the pillow

    stevenaia Michinaga: ok, np problem

    Lingerer Xaris: it will give you the option

    stevenaia Michinaga: let em give you a notecard

    Isadora Davidov: Oh...thanks!

    Lingerer Xaris: Hana!

    stevenaia Michinaga: we record our conversations here and post them on the groups wiki, is that ok?

    Lingerer Xaris: yes

    Isadora Davidov: Yes...that's fine.

    stevenaia Michinaga: aww, this is your first day in Sl, happy RES day as they say here

    Hana Furlough: hi everyone

    Lingerer Xaris: HI hana!

    Isadora Davidov: Well, I've been a few times before...but still don't know much about how to make things work here.

    stevenaia Michinaga: we are a small but focused group who comes here 4 times a day at 1:00 and 7:00 to discus the nature of reality

    Isadora Davidov: So, hello everyone.

    stevenaia Michinaga: we have been meeting over a year now

    Isadora Davidov: Oh, is it OK if I join tonight?

    stevenaia Michinaga: feel free to join us anytime

    Isadora Davidov: THank you...I am familiar with some of the topics and the approach...

    stevenaia Michinaga: anytime is fine, as you will see from the wiki chat logs, the conversations are quite diverse, but we try to focus on a short meditation ... originally 9 seconds ever 15 minutes, now extended to 90 seconds every 15 minutes

    stevenaia Michinaga: just to see, think and look

    Isadora Davidov: Yes, I'd like to participate...is there a topic for this evening?

    stevenaia Michinaga: aww, how did you find this group Isadora

    stevenaia Michinaga: the topic are whatever you wish, we share ideas and are open to what is said as each person has a perspective that we call can learn from

    Isadora Davidov: Well, I checked the time schedule...I know (RL) two other guardians.

    stevenaia Michinaga: nods

    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi hana, I didn;t see you there

    stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before

    Hana Furlough arrived

    Hana Furlough: hello

    Hana Furlough: yeah i just don't normally come to the 7 p.m.

    Hana Furlough: nice to meet you

    stevenaia Michinaga: I have sunday and wednesday evening s

    stevenaia Michinaga: but I will be here tomorrow as well subbing for the guardian who went to the Sl convention in San Francisco, lucky them

    Hana Furlough: ok great!

    Isadora Davidov: I live in the US...does anyone here plan to go the PaB retreat?

    stevenaia Michinaga: no, but I have ben to a weekend get together last October in Princeton

    stevenaia Michinaga: been

    Lingerer Xaris: I didn't know about it. Yesterday was my first day here. Where is the retreat?

    stevenaia Michinaga: outside of Santa Cruz

    Lingerer Xaris: Princeton would have been a lot more doable :) Ah well.

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I am on the east coast

    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm sure in time there will be others

    Hana Furlough: I'm on the west coast but swamped at school right now

    Hana Furlough: not sure i will make it

    Isadora Davidov: Stevenaia...what particular benefits has PaB given rise to for you?

    stevenaia Michinaga: for me, although I do not practice intensely, but I find it well suited o how I view the world... it fits like comfortable clothing, how I think and the ease at which I can experiment with it, relaxing and freeing the mind


    stevenaia Michinaga: sometime 90 seconds can be a very long time

    stevenaia Michinaga: so, for instance, i sense a part of the world around me just them that came from my just letting go and listening

    Isadora Davidov: A dog started baring in the middle...haven't heard that before so close by...

    stevenaia Michinaga: then I realized I didn;t even hear those birds till well into it

    stevenaia Michinaga: it helps bring another awareness to the moment

    stevenaia Michinaga: over time the external awareness turns to internal awareness and you see your thoughts, rather than create them

    stevenaia Michinaga: as part of what we do here is to "play " with those perceptions

    Isadora Davidov: Is there anything "to do" with those thoughts?

    stevenaia Michinaga: actually, the less you do with them, the better, sometimes the hardest thing is to do nothing with they, just let them appear or arise and see them without any preconditions

    stevenaia Michinaga: a way of "dropping" your grip on them

    Isadora Davidov: Oh, thanks...that is helpful.

    stevenaia Michinaga: be an observer

    Isadora Davidov: Well, usually their grip on me.

    Lingerer Xaris: feelings can be incredibly difficult to stay with if they are uncomfortable. i have been experiencing that a lot today

    stevenaia Michinaga: may people say similar things, weighed down by thought of emotions

    stevenaia Michinaga: like lead shoes

    Hana Furlough: yeah there can be something scary about difficult emotions

    Isadora Davidov: Right! Strong or even more subtle emotions are unbalancing for me...getting seized by a state of "upset".

    Lingerer Xaris: i have been wondering today if trying to be happy has been a 15 year waste of time. if i can truly accept unhappy feelings on a daily basis

    Hana Furlough: i don't thing you need to accept them

    Hana Furlough: i think you can change your thinking

    Isadora Davidov: Ah...changing the thinking/reactions does help....

    stevenaia Michinaga: or you can not be unhappy or not be happy, just be you and enjoy what you have

    Hana Furlough: but you don't need to give into negative thought patterns

    stevenaia Michinaga: we use the word appreciation

    Hana Furlough: or be afraid of them

    stevenaia Michinaga: wb Lingerer

    Lingerer Xaris: hey

    Lingerer Xaris: driver crashed

    Lingerer Xaris: I'm back

    Isadora Davidov: I was wondering if the word "accept" means "being with"...sometimes if you can "be with" the experience for some time..it changes

    Isadora Davidov: (Or just stays miserable for a really long time)

    Bellily Milla arrived, I met her once before here

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Bellily, nice to see you again

    Bellily Millar: nice to see you as well, stevo

    Lingerer Xaris: hello Belilly

    Bellily Millar: and rest

    Isadora Davidov: Hi...I don't speak German, but I know a few words.

    Bellily Millar: greetings

    Hana Furlough: hi belilly

    Bellily Millar: no german necessary

    Isadora Davidov: OK!

    Bellily Millar: grin


    stevenaia Michinaga: wb Lingerer

    Lingerer Xaris: damn computer

    Bellily Millar: i wondered where you went, lingerer

    Lingerer Xaris: technical difficulties

    stevenaia Michinaga: you were saying "Isadora Davidov: I was wondering if the word "accept" means "being with"...sometimes if you can "be with" the experience for some time..it changes"

    Hana Furlough: it's true

    Hana Furlough: but don't yo think some situations warrant a more committed sort of optimism

    Isadora Davidov: Lingerer ...you know it just occurred to me that I was in a "giving advice" mode...hmm..perhaps not so useful...but then again...?

    Hana Furlough: like a refusal to believe our thoughts that does beyond just appreciating?

    Lingerer Xaris: I am having trouble with my avatar. Hopefully this message will work

    Lingerer Xaris: ok good, that worked

    Lingerer Xaris: i can talk again

    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure belief or non belief is as important as being aware of them

    Isadora Davidov: For me, I have to be careful that what pops up in my mind is not necessarily "real".

    Bellily Millar: good point, isadora

    stevenaia Michinaga: "real"

    stevenaia Michinaga: what makes a thought real or not

    Bellily Millar: i don't think our thoughts are always our own, that we don't have to claim everything that pops into our heads

    Hana Furlough: well we certainly don't have to identify with them

    Bellily Millar: no, that's where our free choice comes in

    Hana Furlough: right

    Lingerer Xaris: What I am experiencing is probably chemical. A chemical imbalance not strong enough to warrant medicine but enough to cause distress and unhappiness in daily activities. I have had this for years. I am finding that not amount of acceptance or meditation can change this.

    Isadora Davidov: Well, in accord with some more pervasive aspects of my situation...but it's hard not to immediately identify with one's thoughts.

    Lingerer Xaris: but what i can do is BE with what I feel. it doesn't go away, but at least loosens a little

    Lingerer Xaris: damn, i line i wrote didn't show up

    Lingerer Xaris: oh there it is. delayed.

    stevenaia Michinaga: in the creative process, which I work with daily, each new thought becomes a refinement of the previous one

    Isadora Davidov: I am glad we are here with you now...and there are many types of help to explore...especially if ;you think it's neuro-related.

    stevenaia Michinaga: the next "real" thought is based on previous ones

    Bellily Millar: i don't understand that beyond a superficial way, stevenaia

    Bellily Millar: what do you mean? what's an example?

    stevenaia Michinaga: more of a process, I design building, I cannot tell you what will result when I sit down and draw other than it will be based on one thought and end with another based on the first one

    Hana Furlough: do you think it's possible to use cognitive behavioral therapy?

    stevenaia Michinaga: start with a line, end with a house

    stevenaia Michinaga: if I knew what was... smiles

    Bellily Millar: maybe you are talking about the momentum thoughts can have.. and sometimes they can lead me down a nasty path unless i make myself think about something else

    Hana Furlough: right

    Bellily Millar: "star with a line, end with a house" - i love that!

    Hana Furlough: like replacing negative thoughts with positive ones

    Bellily Millar: exactly, hana

    Isadora Davidov: I was thinking in another direction: how we build structures (stories in our mind about past and future).

    Isadora Davidov: Who mentioned cognitive psychotherapy...we didn't follow that up...

    Hana Furlough: i did but the house sounds pretty interesting too

    stevenaia Michinaga: scratches head, not me

    Isadora Davidov: Yes, "start with a line..." a wonderful epigram (?)...but if someone has suffered feeling low for a long time...that seems a very significant concern.to

    Lingerer Xaris: no, no

    Lingerer Xaris: i have just been thinking about how feelings exist in patterns even when we change our thoughts

    Lingerer Xaris: i would much rather talk about building houses

    Lingerer Xaris: :)

    Isadora Davidov: OK!

    Bellily Millar: hm.. patterns. like migraine visuals...

    Bellily Millar: or wallpaper... he

    Bellily Millar: heh

    Hana Furlough: lol nice

    Lingerer Xaris: paisley

    Bellily Millar: scratch that


    Bellily Millar: (blindly typing. confessions: i recently started taking an antidepressant - and it is so SO much easier to shut down the thought patterns that get me nowhere...)

    Bellily Millar: (although i don't think I'm clinically depressed in general)

    Bellily Millar: (embarrassed - i have a habit of too -much - information)

    stevenaia Michinaga: we can compare meds

    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

    Rowan Masala arrives.

    Rowan Masala: hah

    Isadora Davidov: amused laughter from this quarter...

    Bellily Millar: blushing, yet laughing..

    Lingerer Xaris: :-)

    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry, thought humor would help

    Hana Furlough: lol

    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Rowan, welcome

    Bellily Millar: humor does indeed help.. with everything

    Lingerer Xaris: hi Rowan

    Bellily Millar: aloha rowan

    Rowan Masala: hi Lingerer, all

    Hana Furlough: hi rowan

    Isadora Davidov: Hello Rowan...it's getting dark in here

    Rowan Masala nods

    stevenaia Michinaga: always lit in here

    Lingerer Xaris: sorry, there is a delay between my typing.

    Rowan Masala nods

    Rowan Masala: chat lag

    Isadora Davidov: Yes, there are these little dots of light

    Bellily Millar: and one of the dots of light is coming from rowan... sparkly earring?

    Rowan Masala: ah, yes - they have bling

    Rowan Masala: I'll take them off

    Bellily Millar: no! they are lovely!

    Bellily Millar: grin

    Lingerer Xaris: yes, leave them on.

    Hana Furlough: please leave them, they're amazing

    Isadora Davidov: Kind of the Tinkerbell effect;

    Hana Furlough: i love tinkerbell

    Rowan Masala: there, Bellily

    Rowan Masala: they're yours now

    Bellily Millar: thank you very much!

    Rowan Masala: yw :)

    Hana Furlough: thank you rowan

    Bellily Millar: i might just turn into an earring person again..

    Bellily Millar: ooo! i feel so pretty!

    stevenaia Michinaga: breaks into song

    Bellily Millar: giggleling...

    Lingerer Xaris: haha

    Rowan Masala: ah, that's right, you just saw that recently, didn't you Steven?

    Rowan Masala: in NYC?

    stevenaia Michinaga: nods

    stevenaia Michinaga: West Side Story

    Bellily Millar: how was it? wss is one of my favorite things

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, see it if you can

    Bellily Millar: (keeps shaking my head to see the earrings sparkle..)

    Rowan Masala grins

    Bellily Millar: the jazzy music of wss - jets theme, rumble - it's so fabulous.. and the dancing...

    Bellily Millar: (is now officially distracted from everything)

    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

    Rowan Masala: you are all fairly new to SL. Are you getting around ok? Have any questions?

    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be leaving at the top of the hour, but feel free to continue

    stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be back tomorrow

    stevenaia Michinaga: same bat time, same bat channel

    Rowan Masala: you will? are you taking someone else's slot?

    Bellily Millar: be cool boy...

    stevenaia Michinaga: Sylectra is at the SL convention in SF


    Lingerer Xaris: me, too. thank you all. talk to you soon.

    Rowan Masala: ahh

    Isadora Davidov: I'll come back in the next few days as well..I have to go and take

    Hana Furlough: same here

    Hana Furlough: have a great night everyone!

    Bellily Millar: you all have a great night too, to those leaving, to those staying, to all

    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you for coming and please come again

    Isadora Davidov: Good night all...see you again!

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