2009.08.12 19:00 - Chemically imbalanced evening

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello

Lingerer Xaris: hi

Lingerer Xaris: this is only my second time here

stevenaia Michinaga: welcome back

Lingerer Xaris: thank you

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Isadora, have you been here before?

Isadora Davidov: Hello...no, I haven't ...and I don't think I can make my avatar sit down...sorry!

Lingerer Xaris: right click on the pillow

stevenaia Michinaga: ok, np problem

Lingerer Xaris: it will give you the option

stevenaia Michinaga: let em give you a notecard

Isadora Davidov: Oh...thanks!

Lingerer Xaris: Hana!

stevenaia Michinaga: we record our conversations here and post them on the groups wiki, is that ok?

Lingerer Xaris: yes

Isadora Davidov: Yes...that's fine.

stevenaia Michinaga: aww, this is your first day in Sl, happy RES day as they say here

Hana Furlough: hi everyone

Lingerer Xaris: HI hana!

Isadora Davidov: Well, I've been a few times before...but still don't know much about how to make things work here.

stevenaia Michinaga: we are a small but focused group who comes here 4 times a day at 1:00 and 7:00 to discus the nature of reality

Isadora Davidov: So, hello everyone.

stevenaia Michinaga: we have been meeting over a year now

Isadora Davidov: Oh, is it OK if I join tonight?

stevenaia Michinaga: feel free to join us anytime

Isadora Davidov: THank you...I am familiar with some of the topics and the approach...

stevenaia Michinaga: anytime is fine, as you will see from the wiki chat logs, the conversations are quite diverse, but we try to focus on a short meditation ... originally 9 seconds ever 15 minutes, now extended to 90 seconds every 15 minutes

stevenaia Michinaga: just to see, think and look

Isadora Davidov: Yes, I'd like to participate...is there a topic for this evening?

stevenaia Michinaga: aww, how did you find this group Isadora

stevenaia Michinaga: the topic are whatever you wish, we share ideas and are open to what is said as each person has a perspective that we call can learn from

Isadora Davidov: Well, I checked the time schedule...I know (RL) two other guardians.

stevenaia Michinaga: nods

stevenaia Michinaga: Hi hana, I didn;t see you there

stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before

Hana Furlough: hello

Hana Furlough: yeah i just don't normally come to the 7 p.m.

Hana Furlough: nice to meet you

stevenaia Michinaga: I have sunday and wednesday evening s

stevenaia Michinaga: but I will be here tomorrow as well subbing for the guardian who went to the Sl convention in San Francisco, lucky them

Hana Furlough: ok great!

Isadora Davidov: I live in the US...does anyone here plan to go the PaB retreat?

stevenaia Michinaga: no, but I have ben to a weekend get together last October in Princeton

stevenaia Michinaga: been

Lingerer Xaris: I didn't know about it. Yesterday was my first day here. Where is the retreat?

stevenaia Michinaga: outside of Santa Cruz

Lingerer Xaris: Princeton would have been a lot more doable :) Ah well.

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I am on the east coast

stevenaia Michinaga: I'm sure in time there will be others

Hana Furlough: I'm on the west coast but swamped at school right now

Hana Furlough: not sure i will make it

Isadora Davidov: Stevenaia...what particular benefits has PaB given rise to for you?

stevenaia Michinaga: for me, although I do not practice intensely, but I find it well suited o how I view the world... it fits like comfortable clothing, how I think and the ease at which I can experiment with it, relaxing and freeing the mind

stevenaia Michinaga: sometime 90 seconds can be a very long time

stevenaia Michinaga: so, for instance, i sense a part of the world around me just them that came from my just letting go and listening

Isadora Davidov: A dog started baring in the middle...haven't heard that before so close by...

stevenaia Michinaga: then I realized I didn;t even hear those birds till well into it

stevenaia Michinaga: it helps bring another awareness to the moment

stevenaia Michinaga: over time the external awareness turns to internal awareness and you see your thoughts, rather than create them

stevenaia Michinaga: as part of what we do here is to "play " with those perceptions

Isadora Davidov: Is there anything "to do" with those thoughts?

stevenaia Michinaga: actually, the less you do with them, the better, sometimes the hardest thing is to do nothing with they, just let them appear or arise and see them without any preconditions

stevenaia Michinaga: a way of "dropping" your grip on them

Isadora Davidov: Oh, thanks...that is helpful.

stevenaia Michinaga: be an observer

Isadora Davidov: Well, usually their grip on me.

Lingerer Xaris: feelings can be incredibly difficult to stay with if they are uncomfortable. i have been experiencing that a lot today

stevenaia Michinaga: may people say similar things, weighed down by thought of emotions

stevenaia Michinaga: like lead shoes

Hana Furlough: yeah there can be something scary about difficult emotions

Isadora Davidov: Right! Strong or even more subtle emotions are unbalancing for me...getting seized by a state of "upset".

Lingerer Xaris: i have been wondering today if trying to be happy has been a 15 year waste of time. if i can truly accept unhappy feelings on a daily basis

Hana Furlough: i don't thing you need to accept them

Hana Furlough: i think you can change your thinking

Isadora Davidov: Ah...changing the thinking/reactions does help....

stevenaia Michinaga: or you can not be unhappy or not be happy, just be you and enjoy what you have

Hana Furlough: but you don't need to give into negative thought patterns

stevenaia Michinaga: we use the word appreciation

Hana Furlough: or be afraid of them

stevenaia Michinaga: wb Lingerer

Lingerer Xaris: hey

Lingerer Xaris: driver crashed

Lingerer Xaris: I'm back

Isadora Davidov: I was wondering if the word "accept" means "being with"...sometimes if you can "be with" the experience for some time..it changes

Isadora Davidov: (Or just stays miserable for a really long time)

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Bellily, nice to see you again

Bellily Millar: nice to see you as well, stevo

Lingerer Xaris: hello Belilly

Bellily Millar: and rest

Isadora Davidov: Hi...I don't speak German, but I know a few words.

Bellily Millar: greetings

Hana Furlough: hi belilly

Bellily Millar: no german necessary

Isadora Davidov: OK!

Bellily Millar: grin

stevenaia Michinaga: wb Lingerer

Lingerer Xaris: damn computer

Bellily Millar: i wondered where you went, lingerer

Lingerer Xaris: technical difficulties

stevenaia Michinaga: you were saying "Isadora Davidov: I was wondering if the word "accept" means "being with"...sometimes if you can "be with" the experience for some time..it changes"

Hana Furlough: it's true

Hana Furlough: but don't yo think some situations warrant a more committed sort of optimism

Isadora Davidov: Lingerer ...you know it just occurred to me that I was in a "giving advice" mode...hmm..perhaps not so useful...but then again...?

Hana Furlough: like a refusal to believe our thoughts that does beyond just appreciating?

Lingerer Xaris: I am having trouble with my avatar. Hopefully this message will work

Lingerer Xaris: ok good, that worked

Lingerer Xaris: i can talk again

stevenaia Michinaga: not sure belief or non belief is as important as being aware of them

Isadora Davidov: For me, I have to be careful that what pops up in my mind is not necessarily "real".

Bellily Millar: good point, isadora

stevenaia Michinaga: "real"

stevenaia Michinaga: what makes a thought real or not

Bellily Millar: i don't think our thoughts are always our own, that we don't have to claim everything that pops into our heads

Hana Furlough: well we certainly don't have to identify with them

Bellily Millar: no, that's where our free choice comes in

Hana Furlough: right

Lingerer Xaris: What I am experiencing is probably chemical. A chemical imbalance not strong enough to warrant medicine but enough to cause distress and unhappiness in daily activities. I have had this for years. I am finding that not amount of acceptance or meditation can change this.

Isadora Davidov: Well, in accord with some more pervasive aspects of my situation...but it's hard not to immediately identify with one's thoughts.

Lingerer Xaris: but what i can do is BE with what I feel. it doesn't go away, but at least loosens a little

Lingerer Xaris: damn, i line i wrote didn't show up

Lingerer Xaris: oh there it is. delayed.

stevenaia Michinaga: in the creative process, which I work with daily, each new thought becomes a refinement of the previous one

Isadora Davidov: I am glad we are here with you now...and there are many types of help to explore...especially if ;you think it's neuro-related.

stevenaia Michinaga: the next "real" thought is based on previous ones

Bellily Millar: i don't understand that beyond a superficial way, stevenaia

Bellily Millar: what do you mean? what's an example?

stevenaia Michinaga: more of a process, I design building, I cannot tell you what will result when I sit down and draw other than it will be based on one thought and end with another based on the first one

Hana Furlough: do you think it's possible to use cognitive behavioral therapy?

stevenaia Michinaga: start with a line, end with a house

stevenaia Michinaga: if I knew what was... smiles

Bellily Millar: maybe you are talking about the momentum thoughts can have.. and sometimes they can lead me down a nasty path unless i make myself think about something else

Hana Furlough: right

Bellily Millar: "star with a line, end with a house" - i love that!

Hana Furlough: like replacing negative thoughts with positive ones

Bellily Millar: exactly, hana

Isadora Davidov: I was thinking in another direction: how we build structures (stories in our mind about past and future).

Isadora Davidov: Who mentioned cognitive psychotherapy...we didn't follow that up...

Hana Furlough: i did but the house sounds pretty interesting too

stevenaia Michinaga: scratches head, not me

Isadora Davidov: Yes, "start with a line..." a wonderful epigram (?)...but if someone has suffered feeling low for a long time...that seems a very significant concern.to

Lingerer Xaris: no, no

Lingerer Xaris: i have just been thinking about how feelings exist in patterns even when we change our thoughts

Lingerer Xaris: i would much rather talk about building houses

Lingerer Xaris: :)

Isadora Davidov: OK!

Bellily Millar: hm.. patterns. like migraine visuals...

Bellily Millar: or wallpaper... he

Bellily Millar: heh

Hana Furlough: lol nice

Lingerer Xaris: paisley

Bellily Millar: scratch that

Bellily Millar: (blindly typing. confessions: i recently started taking an antidepressant - and it is so SO much easier to shut down the thought patterns that get me nowhere...)

Bellily Millar: (although i don't think I'm clinically depressed in general)

Bellily Millar: (embarrassed - i have a habit of too -much - information)

stevenaia Michinaga: we can compare meds

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Rowan Masala: hah

Isadora Davidov: amused laughter from this quarter...

Bellily Millar: blushing, yet laughing..

Lingerer Xaris: :-)

stevenaia Michinaga: sorry, thought humor would help

Hana Furlough: lol

stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Rowan, welcome

Bellily Millar: humor does indeed help.. with everything

Lingerer Xaris: hi Rowan

Bellily Millar: aloha rowan

Rowan Masala: hi Lingerer, all

Hana Furlough: hi rowan

Isadora Davidov: Hello Rowan...it's getting dark in here

Rowan Masala nods

stevenaia Michinaga: always lit in here

Lingerer Xaris: sorry, there is a delay between my typing.

Rowan Masala nods

Rowan Masala: chat lag

Isadora Davidov: Yes, there are these little dots of light

Bellily Millar: and one of the dots of light is coming from rowan... sparkly earring?

Rowan Masala: ah, yes - they have bling

Rowan Masala: I'll take them off

Bellily Millar: no! they are lovely!

Bellily Millar: grin

Lingerer Xaris: yes, leave them on.

Hana Furlough: please leave them, they're amazing

Isadora Davidov: Kind of the Tinkerbell effect;

Hana Furlough: i love tinkerbell

Rowan Masala: there, Bellily

Rowan Masala: they're yours now

Bellily Millar: thank you very much!

Rowan Masala: yw :)

Hana Furlough: thank you rowan

Bellily Millar: i might just turn into an earring person again..

Bellily Millar: ooo! i feel so pretty!

stevenaia Michinaga: breaks into song

Bellily Millar: giggleling...

Lingerer Xaris: haha

Rowan Masala: ah, that's right, you just saw that recently, didn't you Steven?

Rowan Masala: in NYC?

stevenaia Michinaga: nods

stevenaia Michinaga: West Side Story

Bellily Millar: how was it? wss is one of my favorite things

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, see it if you can

Bellily Millar: (keeps shaking my head to see the earrings sparkle..)

Rowan Masala grins

Bellily Millar: the jazzy music of wss - jets theme, rumble - it's so fabulous.. and the dancing...

Bellily Millar: (is now officially distracted from everything)

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Rowan Masala: you are all fairly new to SL. Are you getting around ok? Have any questions?

stevenaia Michinaga: I must be leaving at the top of the hour, but feel free to continue

stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be back tomorrow

stevenaia Michinaga: same bat time, same bat channel

Rowan Masala: you will? are you taking someone else's slot?

Bellily Millar: be cool boy...

stevenaia Michinaga: Sylectra is at the SL convention in SF

Lingerer Xaris: me, too. thank you all. talk to you soon.

Rowan Masala: ahh

Isadora Davidov: I'll come back in the next few days as well..I have to go and take

Hana Furlough: same here

Hana Furlough: have a great night everyone!

Bellily Millar: you all have a great night too, to those leaving, to those staying, to all

stevenaia Michinaga: thank you for coming and please come again

Isadora Davidov: Good night all...see you again!