2009.08.15 13:00 - SL Appearance, Gardens and Weddings

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    The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.


    I arrived a few minutes after 4 pm and Doug, Yakuzza and Fox were sitting in the pavilion, having just arrived; Gaya and Wol soon follow...

    doug Sosa: welcome.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fox and doug
    Fox Monacular: Hey Yakuzza and Doug
    doug Sosa: ouch
    Fox Monacular: yeah, it happens
    doug Sosa: hi bert
    Fox Monacular: Hello Bertram
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bert, sophia
    Fox Monacular: Hi Sophia
    Bertram Jacobus: hi sophia s :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi all *smiles*
    doug Sosa: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: omg Fox you're on fire!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ^^
    Bertram Jacobus: helllo gaya ... :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Gaya
    Fox Monacular: yeah, one of these days...
    Fox Monacular: Hi Gaya
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ha!!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
    doug Sosa: hi
    Gaya Ethaniel: You've got interestings AVs Fox. :)
    Fox Monacular: thanks:) they're all free too
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Fox Monacular: i'm still looking for my sl identity
    doug Sosa: trying to maximise experience :)
    Fox Monacular: haven't quite resolved it it rl yet either:)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. It's fun to play.
    Fox Monacular: yes:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Mum"
    Bertram Jacobus: hallo wol ... :-)
    Fox Monacular: Hi Wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey wol
    doug Sosa: what happens if you get in the pond?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have you been behaving? :P
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    doug Sosa: hi
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Fox :p It's funny how this makes you look at yourself
    Fox Monacular: my awesome fire will definitely evaporate the pool
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: oooh, Burning Fox.
    Wol Euler: nice.
    Fox Monacular: thanks:)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. Also helps discovering things about oneself ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha it'll be a sauna
    Fox Monacular: that's for sure, sometimes strange things happen
    Gaya Ethaniel: ?
    Fox Monacular: I mean about discovering things about yourself
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do give us an example or two Fox.
    Fox Monacular: for example, why is it that I just cannot decide to have a 'human' avatar?
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes, why ? ;-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    doug Sosa: is there a momment where that is a real question?
    Fox Monacular: I tried, but these crazy things are somehow more attractive:)
    Wol Euler: perhaps you are expressing many different facets of yourself in your avs?
    Wol Euler: or should htat be "presumably you are ..."
    Fox Monacular: yes, like a horse on fire:))
    Fox Monacular: but seriously I think it's very interesting to see what people chose to represent themselves in sl
    Wol Euler: indeed :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is interesting
    Gaya Ethaniel adds Fox to her list "people with interesting AVs"
    Bertram Jacobus: so i´m more boring i guess in my sl appearance ? ... ;-)
    Fox Monacular: in sl I wear strangest things, in rl I don't even have a tattoo
    Wol Euler smiles and nods. Not yet, perhaps.
    doug Sosa: So do chosen avatars usually represent desires?
    Fox Monacular: I don't know if it can be qualified as 'boring'... more like real vs unreal?
    Bertram Jacobus: nice reaction fox :-)
    Wol Euler: I do think they repesent sides of oneself
    Fox Monacular: probably... like dreamlike...
    Wol Euler: I met Adelene in RL recently, for example, and was surprised and amused to see that she has the same upright and stately bearing in her RL body as her lion av does here
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fox Monacular: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Fox Monacular: I think I chose this one because it represents a nightmare
    Gaya Ethaniel: Even choosing to stick with default ones give a clue or two about RL person behind AVs.
    Gaya Ethaniel: [not all the same I must add]
    Gaya Ethaniel: same reasons*
    Bertram Jacobus: yes gaya. i thought similar thoughts ... :-)
    Fox Monacular: my problem is that I don't know anyone in rl who uses sl... so I can't compare
    Bertram Jacobus: and doug : in cologne carneval it is said, that the costumes, which people choose, WOULD represent desires, "yes" ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well you may meet some SL friends in RL one day who knows? :)
    Wol Euler nods and smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel turns green :P "Like Wol here."
    Wol Euler: :-PPPP
    Wol Euler: it was fun, surprisingly easy and comfortable


    Fox Monacular: oh yes, carnival is a great example
    Fox Monacular: in renaissance venice yearly carnival was used as an element of social catharsis (and i'm sure in other places it is similar)
    Bertram Jacobus: it is fox !
    Fox Monacular: it was allowed to transgress otherwise fixed norms and identities to prevent social upheavals
    Gaya Ethaniel: What is fox?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I can definately see how that can be, freedom to do things you would ordinarily do
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wouldn't*
    Wol Euler: trying out different selves
    Fox Monacular: and now we have mass media for that
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. SL is really good for me that way because I grew up in a very strict family.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bourbon street in new orleans was like for me, although this is on a much smaller scale!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Though I can't help people judging me for what kind of AVs or clothings I choose to wear.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's really playing for me that I value.
    Wol Euler: true.
    Bertram Jacobus: interesting. cologne is the town in germany with the biggest carnival tradition and psycologists say it would make more free and i can affirm that. it´s a very helpful element ...
    Wol Euler: but it is also true on the whole, that your friends don't care and those who _do_ care would not be your friends anysway
    Fox Monacular: agree
    Gaya Ethaniel: !
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) Wol
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wol does it again. :)
    Fox Monacular: but sometimes it is hard to separate people and their preconceptions
    Gaya Ethaniel nods nods.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles and nods
    Wol Euler: I think SL makes a start at though, in a way. By showing us that appearance truly is not reality.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I learnt a lot about my preconceptions as well as things about myself.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well still learning.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i think it was a start for me, Wol, for real <laughs>
    Gaya Ethaniel used to think female AVs are females in RL !!!
    Fox Monacular: oh, I know now why today of all days I'm wearing the 'nightmare' avatar - I've been reading a lot on nightmares today! I just made the connection
    Fox Monacular: haha, Gaya:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Does that make me a sheep/fox in RL? :P
    Fox Monacular: :))
    Wol Euler: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah!
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow ... amazing you realised the connection Fox.
    Fox Monacular: I'm sure my boyfriend would make a female avatar for himself:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Why would you say that?
    Fox Monacular: the first avatar I made was male:) just for fun
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Fox Monacular: sorry everyone, I have to go now... nice talking to you all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Fox
    Wol Euler: bye fox, burn well :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Fox. :)
    Fox Monacular: have a good rest of the session
    Gaya Ethaniel guffaws.
    Bertram Jacobus: for me, sl and rl are very close. and i try to follow a teaching of a buddhist teacher who said : don´t confuse people. be clear instead
    Gaya Ethaniel: What does he mean by that?
    Bertram Jacobus: perhaps i expressed it in a wrong way ? he meant not to confuse but to do the contrary would be good
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks.
    Wol Euler: clarity is generally a good thing :)
    Wol Euler: Doug, you are very quiet.
    Bertram Jacobus: and i knew a black magician long years ago - very long years - who said confusing people would be freat (...)
    Bertram Jacobus: great*
    doug Sosa: Good sometimes. Thoughtful.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's difficult to be clear about people though ... let alone oneself.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have been away from sl and PaB for a while, I was surprised how my thoughts have drifted away from 'being' and more on the stressors of life
    doug Sosa: Listening to what is behind the words being spoken.
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: and what do you hear? :)
    doug Sosa: wish i knew.
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)</laughs>



    Gaya Ethaniel: Well you can share what you think of it all at least if you'd like doug.
    doug Sosa: I am at a new level of unclarity about it.
    Gaya Ethaniel: About SL?
    Wol Euler: your comments about avs and sexuality in recent sessions have been interesting, doug.
    doug Sosa: no.. what lies behind people's choice of appearance, what they want to follow from those choices..
    doug Sosa: For me, as I've been saying, who is here and how they appear take precedence over other thoughts when i arrive. I have to push them aside to appear to be "meditating." but if the "meditating" is supposed to be free and spontaneous observation of how thoughts emerge..
    doug Sosa: then what others are doing ehr is different from what I am doing. And I don't beleive it.
    Gaya Ethaniel: uh ... I'm confused ... reads again.
    Gaya Ethaniel: What is "what others are doing here?"
    Gaya Ethaniel: PaBing?
    Wol Euler: what is there to believe or not believe, doug?
    doug Sosa: About appearnce, spntenetiy and openness. And I am saved by the bell sort of, i do need to go, guests arrivng in five minutes...
    doug Sosa: bye.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your evening doug :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye doug
    Gaya Ethaniel: Shame he couldn't stay longer.
    Gaya Ethaniel: He is an interesting person, quite different to many I've met here.
    Bertram Jacobus: in which way if i may ask although he is not here anymore ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well, he normally leaves at 30 mins, sometimes it looks almost like a personal practice?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I should ask him next time :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: hiya
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mick
    Bertram Jacobus: hm. may be. better to ask him directly - i call to order myself ... ;o)
    Bertram Jacobus: hiya mick :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: hello mick
    Mickorod Renard: hi Berty
    Gaya Ethaniel: He's very intellectual as well. Have you read his blog?
    Mickorod Renard: hi Wol Gaya Yaku Sophia
    Wol Euler: no, didn't know he had one.
    Bertram Jacobus: :-) (mick)
    Wol Euler: it's not in his profile.
    Mickorod Renard: ahh,,ur not talkin about me then
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol MIck
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Bertram Jacobus: i didn´t know anything about such a blog, too until a few seconds ago ... ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: tell me who this is pls?
    Bertram Jacobus: doug
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.dougcarmichael.com/blog/
    Mickorod Renard: ohh
    Mickorod Renard: dont know him
    Wol Euler: ah, ty
    Gaya Ethaniel: I found that link somewhere on wiki.
    Gaya Ethaniel: doug Mick.
    Gaya Ethaniel: One of the guardians.
    Bertram Jacobus: hi ara ... :-)
    Mickorod Renard: hi Ara
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabelle
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi mick, ara


    Arabella and Mickorod arrive, I had to leave a little early...

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
    Wol Euler: sorry, back. I'd been reading.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb :) I'm lagging pretty badly here.
    Bertram Jacobus: no sorry necessairy i think ! (?) ... :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Gaya, it seems to be something with this time slot
    arabella Ella: i'm lagging badly tonite too just crashed before coming here
    Gaya Ethaniel shrugs ... evenings and weekends ... busy online ...
    Mickorod Renard: wasnt he here same time yesterday?
    Bertram Jacobus: gaya - what is the reason for your lags ? your computer or your connection ? what do you think ?
    Wol Euler: he is often here afternoons and evenings, but only for 30 minutes a time
    Gaya Ethaniel: My connection and computer is good ... doesn't matter.
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure I have only seen him twice at most in all my time here
    arabella Ella: my connection is wavering tonite
    Mickorod Renard: mine seems ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's better now yay! :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-))
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure but doug doesn't seem to be particularly religious so that's also another point why I find him interesting :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: And he likes gardening too. Who else in this group is into gardening?
    arabella Ella loves gardening
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    arabella Ella: but a wasp stung me while gardening this afternoon and it was so painful
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i like to putter in my yard but i wouldn't call it garden ing ;p
    Mickorod Renard: I like gardening too
    Gaya Ethaniel: aaww ... sorry to hear that arabella.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow ... many gardeners now with newish guardians!
    arabella Ella: well i treated it immediately and life goes on
    arabella Ella: and i still have a lovely hive on one of my plants which is so pretty
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: eeep ... a pretty hive.
    arabella Ella: (not sure if it was a wasp or a bee)
    Mickorod Renard: did it die?
    arabella Ella: no
    arabella Ella: i nearly did
    Gaya Ethaniel: Apparently wasp continues to sting unlike bee? Never been stung.
    arabella Ella: he he
    Mickorod Renard: bee's die after stinging
    Mickorod Renard: so it is said
    arabella Ella: well it was so painful that i rushed off to put vinegar on it and to try to suck out sting
    arabella Ella: so i have no idea what happened to the bee or wasp
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i got stung twice in my house when i was sleeping last fall, and couldn't find the hive, still not sure what to do about it
    Mickorod Renard: we used to have some real bad ones called fellon's
    arabella Ella: human wasps Mick?
    arabella Ella: relapsers?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Mickorod Renard: almost as big
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: i honestly think a hive is a work of art
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh I remember ... how do you gardeners feel about weeds?
    arabella Ella: so awesome
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or weeding
    arabella Ella: oh ... weeds
    arabella Ella: mixed feelings
    arabella Ella: some can be so pretty
    Mickorod Renard: as a kid i loved weeds,,but I do find them hard work now
    arabella Ella: others strangle the plants
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i like some of them Gaya, the back part of my yard has the prettiest weeds :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh
    arabella Ella: i like wild plants in the countryside
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Mickorod Renard: me too
    Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder what 'weeds' represent in your gardens.
    arabella Ella: different things in different parts of the world i guess
    Mickorod Renard: I recon about 60%
    Gaya Ethaniel: Things to get rid of or ... ?
    arabella Ella: depends IMHO on what damage they cause (or dont) to other plants
    Wol Euler: a weed is just a plant in the wrong place, a teacher told me once.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I mean do you see weeding as inevitable?
    arabella Ella: like if you try to grow roses in pots here ... the weeds may take all the water and nutrients
    Wol Euler: strelizia (bird of paradise flower) are very expensive and exotic and rare here, but on the Canary Islands they are weeds, tehy grow by the roadside
    arabella Ella: cool
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,cigar plant is the same
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. Australians call kangaroos pests.
    Mickorod Renard: good to eat though
    arabella Ella: not for vegitarians Mick
    Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave - have a nice time all and ty ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Mick, if you have a license, you can go shoot them for farmers there.
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Bertrum :)
    arabella Ella: rabbit is a delicacy here and a pest in Oz
    Mickorod Renard: nite bert
    arabella Ella: nite Bertram
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bertram
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Wol Euler: bye bertram, take care
    Gaya Ethaniel: So it's really relative thing then?
    Bertram Jacobus: ty again all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nacht bert
    Gaya Ethaniel: Relative to whatever goal weeds are against?
    arabella Ella: well the way i see it roses grow so easily in the UK
    arabella Ella: and here so difficult
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go too, nice to see you all !!!
    arabella Ella: but geraniums grow like weeds here
    Mickorod Renard: bye sophia
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye SophiaSharon :)
    arabella Ella: and not so much in N Europe
    arabella Ella: bye Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: b4n
    Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care
    Wol Euler: too late
    Mickorod Renard: maybe there is a place for everything
    Mickorod Renard: like they say ,,horses for courses
    arabella Ella: how would you guys consider jelly fish?
    arabella Ella: ooops
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yum jelly fish!
    Gaya Ethaniel: RL calls, good evening/night :)
    arabella Ella: nite gaya!
    Mickorod Renard: nite gatya
    Wol Euler: bye gaya!
    Wol Euler: sleep well
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you Wol, you too :)
    Wol Euler tweaks your tail one last time
    Gaya Ethaniel: :P
    Wol Euler: I love doing that :) it twitches when you click it.
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    arabella Ella: really?
    arabella Ella: dyin to try that now
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: bet mine wud if I had one
    arabella Ella: :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: so Wol how was your trip?
    arabella Ella: hope all went well
    Wol Euler: ah, that seems so long ago already
    arabella Ella: :)
    Wol Euler: yes, it was highly wonderful.
    arabella Ella: great
    Mickorod Renard: I loved the water pistol fight u had at the end
    arabella Ella: well I got back from a week in Spain 2 days ago and it already seems long time gone by
    Wol Euler: I'm looking forward to doing it again next year (we decided the conference would be an annual event)
    arabella Ella: water pistol fight?
    Wol Euler smiles. The end of a perfect wedding.
    arabella Ella: cool
    arabella Ella: literally cool ... dying to cool down in this swealtering weather here ...
    Wol Euler: homemade vows in their own back garden, then live music, sparklers, margaritas and waterpistol fights
    arabella Ella: sounds perfect
    arabella Ella: and no formalities?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    Wol Euler: oh yes, sorta. there was a service performed in the garden
    arabella Ella: nite Yak
    Mickorod Renard: bye yaku,,keep well
    Wol Euler: but the legal ceremony happened just last week, in San Franisco
    Mickorod Renard: yaku seems very quiet lately
    arabella Ella: oh i see
    arabella Ella: so they had two ceremonies
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    arabella Ella: interesting
    Wol Euler: they can't legally marry in the state they live in :-/
    arabella Ella: oh ok i see
    arabella Ella: but at least they can legally marry elsewhere
    Mickorod Renard: spoze it has to be documented
    Wol Euler: insofar as anything has to be done at all ...
    Wol Euler: my sister has been not-married to the same man for 25 years now. (shrugs)
    arabella Ella: yes but lots of ppl prefer to legalise their relationship
    arabella Ella: i guess its their decision
    Wol Euler: but that is in Canada, where cohabitees have rights.
    arabella Ella: oh i reckon cohabitation rights are very rare in most places
    Mickorod Renard: I am married and have no rights
    arabella Ella: you only have responsibilities and obligations Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,lots of them
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: i suppose a lot of rights have to do with social security, welfare and inheritance
    Wol Euler: and hospitalization. In many states, long-term cohabitees have no -right- to visit their partner in hospital
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Wol Euler: to take one really crass and foolish example
    arabella Ella: oh noooo
    Wol Euler: pigheaded mean-spiritedness at its lowest.
    Wol Euler breathes deeply and forces herself to relax.
    arabella Ella: that is so ridiculous
    Mickorod Renard: yes..I dont think I wud stand for that
    arabella Ella: cos that also implies no rights to take decisions if the other partner is not in a state to decide due to medical or other reasons
    Wol Euler: right.
    Mickorod Renard: scarey
    arabella Ella: well Wol, where I live we dont even have divorce can u imagine?
    Wol Euler: heh
    arabella Ella: one of the only two countries in the world with no divorce
    Mickorod Renard: where I live you may as well not have marriage
    arabella Ella: true Mick as Brits getter better social security as single parents
    arabella Ella: some do so deliberately
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,as in france
    arabella Ella: ah
    arabella Ella: fraid i must go bye wol
    arabella Ella: lovely to see u back
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I have to go and feed the birds
    Wol Euler: bye ara, take care. thank you!
    Mickorod Renard: bye wol,,bye ara
    Wol Euler: bye mick, enjoy the evening
    Mickorod Renard: and you

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