2009.08.31 13:00 - The Summer Effect

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim!
    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach!
    Scathach Rhiadra: How are you today?
    Stim Morane: OK, just catching up on lots of things. And you?
    Scathach Rhiadra: fine thank you
    Stim Morane: As usual, thanks very much for your help on various things. I look forward to meeting you someday so I can thank you in person.
    Scathach Rhiadra: ha, it is no problem:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: so, how was the retreat for you, (I have to ask)
    Stim Morane: it was good to meet the people, and they enjoyed the place and time together.
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah good:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Paul
    Stim Morane: Hi Paul
    Paul Namiboo: Hi all
    Paul Namiboo: and thanks, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: hello Pila, Doug
    Pila Mulligan: hi Paul, Doug,Stim and Scathach
    doug Sosa: hi all.
    Stim Morane: Hi Pila and Doug
    Paul Namiboo: still haven't managed to see the wine bottle, and I keep drinking from the bottom of the wine glass. Just an idot newbie....
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paul Namiboo: idiot
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pila Mulligan: the wine bottle may be just a decorative item, not animated to drink from
    Pila Mulligan: something to set on a table
    doug Sosa: low bandwidth.
    Pila Mulligan: Stim, I'm full of questions about the retreat
    Paul Namiboo: Is that the flashing windows warning I'm getting?
    Pila Mulligan: hi Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: hello everybody ... :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertram
    Stim Morane: hi Bertram
    Paul Namiboo: Hi Bertram
    doug Sosa: Stim i know Pema is on the plane, maybe go ahead with report from retreat?
    Stim Morane: would you like to comment on it? Please do.
    doug Sosa: ah, I did this morning.
    Paul Namiboo: I've got to go, amny thanks. Bye.
    doug Sosa: bye paul.
    Pila Mulligan: bye Paul
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Paul Hello Yakuzza
    Stim Morane: Hi Yakuzza
    Pila Mulligan: hi Yak
    doug Sosa: Hi.
    Bertram Jacobus: hello yakuzza :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi wol :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    doug Sosa: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol
    Stim Morane: Hi Wol
    Bertram Jacobus: hello wol ... :-)
    Pila Mulligan: aole pilikia
    Pila Mulligan: (no problem)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: which language is that pila ? :-)
    Pila Mulligan: Hawaiian
    Bertram Jacobus: oh. whaiow :-)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
    Bertram Jacobus: and hy mick ... :-)
    Wol Euler: hello mick, eliza
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick, Eliza
    Bertram Jacobus: and eliza ... :-)
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :))
    Mickorod Renard: Hi
    Stim Morane: hey Mick
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: hey,,good holiday Stim?
    Bertram Jacobus: hy gaya ... :-)
    Stim Morane: it was good, yes. And hot, too.
    doug Sosa: :)
    Mickorod Renard: great
    Wol Euler smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Stim Morane: how about your un-vacation?
    Mickorod Renard: thats going ok,,but i am a bit fed up now,,7 weeks is too much
    Stim Morane: 7 weeks?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,but am back in on the 8th
    doug Sosa: 7 weeks of what ??
    Pila Mulligan: summer?
    Mickorod Renard: school hols
    Stim Morane: oh
    doug Sosa: o did you have to paint the house, redo the kichen? or get some freeer time?
    Mickorod Renard: I tried to stay busy as I suffer with an overactive mind when I have too much time on my hands
    Pila Mulligan: Stim, would you please share some thoughts on how the PaB retreat compares with your usual retreat situation?
    Wol Euler: yes, please.
    Mickorod Renard: please
    Stim Morane: they're quite different, not much overlap.
    Stim Morane: We've known all along that PaB was a different kind of thing than traditional approaches to contemplative practice.
    Pila Mulligan: yes, that's a question in itself :)
    Mickorod Renard: did you make any great discoveries that you may wish to bring here or to WoK?
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: I'll let you know if something comes to mind.
    Mickorod Renard: he he ty
    Stim Morane: But Doug may have some comments re that.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: did you go to the retreat doug?
    Stim Morane: Yes he did.
    Stim Morane: Doug, are you with us?
    Stim Morane: ANyway, re your questions, have some of the other retreat participants already reported on it here in PaB?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Stim Morane: Good
    Pila Mulligan: each with their own perspective
    Stim Morane: well that's to be expected, perhaps even more in PaB than with more traditional style retreats.
    Pila Mulligan: were there some high points for you (aside from the reportedly excellent food:)
    Bertram Jacobus: why do you think that stim ? :-)
    Stim Morane: Pila, I'm always bad at reporting about retreats I attend ... I'm never sure how to sum all that happens in such contexts.
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Stim Morane: Bertram, the focus of PaB is pretty broad compared with more traditional views.
    doug Sosa: disconnected my keyboard?
    Stim Morane: welcome back, Doug!
    Pila Mulligan: wb doug
    doug Sosa: thanks. caught up in cables.
    Bertram Jacobus: i see. ty stim
    Stim Morane: ah
    Wol Euler: like Gulliver :)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Stim Morane: a nice image
    Mickorod Renard: I was wondering whether the retreat was found to be more orientated towards those with more traditional budhist practice , rather than the variety of backgrounds we find in Pab?
    Stim Morane: I wouldn't say so, no.
    doug Sosa: Yes the purpose of the retreat was to stay connected but with fewer (conceptual) cables :)
    Mickorod Renard: great
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel: What did you like about the retreat Stim?#
    Wol Euler: :)
    Stim Morane: everything, but again, it's hard for me to sum such things up.
    doug Sosa: summing everything is never easy.
    Stim Morane: and hi, Gaya, by the way ...
    Bertram Jacobus: (and a nice pupose : to stay connected!) ...
    Pila Mulligan: Maxine told about meeting a little rabbit on a path in the woods each day on her morning walks there
    Wol Euler smiles
    Stim Morane: it was probably deciding whether to eat her or wait ...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pila Mulligan: she somehow felt unthreatened though
    doug Sosa: Maxine?
    Scathach Rhiadra: there are snakes in California?
    Stim Morane: actually, there isn't much living in redwood forests, compared to other kinds of forests.
    Stim Morane: Yes, there are a number of types of snakes, including rattle snakes.
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Stim Morane: so what sort of PaB focus shall we explore today?
    Pila Mulligan: Stim, another question, please: a year ago I did not feel SL was an appropriate venue for contemplative practices, but now my opinion has been changed some by Kira/PaB experience -- have your thoughts about the SL venue changed over time?
    Stim Morane: I'm still learning ...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Stim Morane: probably all of you are more conversant with SL than I.
    Pila Mulligan: we are all still learning
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Robby
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hi robby :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Robby
    Robby Holfe: hey
    Wol Euler: welcome to SL, robby, three days old :)
    Stim Morane: welcome
    Pila Mulligan: hi robby
    Mickorod Renard: just given robby a hand out
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello robby
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Robby :)
    Bertram Jacobus: already away again :o)
    Gaya Ethaniel: brb - lagging too much ...
    Wol Euler: hb gaya
    Stim Morane: so ... PaB homework reports? Ideas, questions?
    doug Sosa: I've found myself lately here getting punwise playful to the point of mild sarcasm. Wonder what's up? Anybody know those turns of mood?
    Mickorod Renard: I heard a steam locootive earlier and ran out to see it,,afterwards I felt stupid because I had felt like a child..is that wrong?
    Wol Euler: nope
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wol Euler: (to mick)
    Mickorod Renard: ty
    Wol Euler: and yep to doug :)
    Wol Euler: though in my case it's bad verse rather than puns.
    Mickorod Renard: yes to doug,,often
    Pila Mulligan: tow examples of human nature, maybe, Mick and Doug
    Pila Mulligan: two*
    Stim Morane: I make lots of puns, but never with any knowledge of having done so.
    Scathach Rhiadra: we need Fefonz here, the king of puns:)
    Stim Morane: yes
    Stim Morane: soon, hopefully
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I have hardly seen Fef recently
    Wol Euler: he's moving back to Israel, I believe.
    Stim Morane: he was at the retreat, now en route to Israel
    doug Sosa: I think I do it when things are moving slowly and i fill the gap with being clever (ha!) rather than pay attention.
    doug Sosa: But sometimes the puns are meant to lead us towards some depth.
    Mickorod Renard: I so wish I could have gone to the retreat..maybe next time
    Wol Euler: me toooooooo.
    Stim Morane: I'm sure Pema will give you some opportunities
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not much luck. Good day :) Nice to have you back Stim.
    Stim Morane: thanks, bye Gaya
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Gaya, sorry
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: hey Stim, we have been practicing using voice at Gaya's homework session
    doug Sosa: Wonder what it would be like to do a five day retreat within secondlife?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. for the log and gaya : bye gaya, more luck ! ...
    Stim Morane: how's that going?
    Stim Morane: I mean the voice ...
    doug Sosa: what is the "homework session"?
    Mickorod Renard: It was my first time on voice lastnight, I was nervous but got over it
    Stim Morane: interesting
    Stim Morane: I'd like to find out more about this experiment, as it progresses
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I'm still nervous a bit but we managed to have a full and dynamic session
    Scathach Rhiadra: we are more used to it now, it has been good so far:)
    Pila Mulligan: using Skype
    Stim Morane: so how does it change the interaction?
    Eliza Madrigal: (Doug, the homework group sprung from Stim's Ways of Knowing workshop)
    doug Sosa: (thanks).
    Mickorod Renard: naturaly we had to take it in turns to speak
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, I think we communicate more and better
    Stim Morane: I'm still getting used to text chat
    Pila Mulligan: it is a little harder for me comprehension-wise as I am hard of hearing, but it feels closer and a little more personal
    Stim Morane: I have already been accustomed to using voice in virtual worlds.
    Stim Morane: Yes, Pila, I can understand.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes it does feel personal
    Mickorod Renard: I too have a hearing issue,,but coped ok lastnight Pila
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Stim Morane: so you were using the computer microphone and speaker?
    Eliza Madrigal: The hearing is the main thing... if someone wanted to text their imput they still can, via skype
    Pila Mulligan: I like how Skype has both voice and a text chat component
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Mickorod Renard: I used headphones
    Eliza Madrigal: headset here
    Stim Morane: hearing is much easier with a USB headset
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes headphones are better
    Mickorod Renard: thats true Pila,,its still posible to use text chat as well
    Stim Morane: so about that PaB work ... any reports? :)
    Bertram Jacobus: same in sl : voice and text. very nice
    Bertram Jacobus: and even additional optical impressions ! ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Mickorod Renard: I have not been on PaB too much lately
    Mickorod Renard: I think we have lost some of the focus
    Stim Morane: but i mean, re applying the methods and emphases in your life ...
    Mickorod Renard: but thats my opinion, and maybe incorrect
    Stim Morane: what do you notice, Mick?
    Stim Morane: What seems to be the difference?
    Mickorod Renard: When I first came on we seemed to focus on issues,,like appa or whatever
    Mickorod Renard: but I think we have become more relaxed
    Stim Morane: yes ... well, we can fix that.
    Mickorod Renard: which is nice too
    Stim Morane: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Summer may have something to do with that... less structure in life in general too?
    Stim Morane: true, Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Stim Morane: that's a big factor
    Bertram Jacobus: for me all that is still quite new. i even don´t know, what appa means exactly : appreciation of the presence of appearence ? not exactly -
    doug Sosa: close.
    Mickorod Renard: during my last Scribe,,for the 4th 5th and 6th, i extracted and saved lots of info on this subject Bert, it may be worth having a look
    Eliza Madrigal: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Scribe_Project/2009/08/04-06_-_Mick_nets_a_whole_lot_of_APAPB
    Bertram Jacobus: okay. thanks mick. and for stands the "second" (or "first") "p", please ?
    Bertram Jacobus: + what
    Mickorod Renard: the dates of the scribe and stuff on Appreciated the pres of being etc
    Stim Morane: What is beyond practice is most important for our fulfillment, but "practice" itself is usually essential, along the way. I recommend it on a daily basis, preferably many times a day. That was the point of Pema's exercises in the first place, too.
    Stim Morane: Once the summer releases us from its grip, perhaps that emphasis can be revived.
    Wol Euler nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I would like a watch the gongs every 15 mins
    Mickorod Renard: or something like that
    Stim Morane: start today, somehow!
    Bertram Jacobus: my mobile is able to do so mick. and many can i guess
    Mickorod Renard: I have a g phone but cant see it can do it
    Bertram Jacobus: g phone ? what is that please ?
    Mickorod Renard: I need a man servant, like passpartout..to tap me on the shoulder each time
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been trying to see if the bell helps my son when doing homework or distracts him : )
    Eliza Madrigal: haha Mick
    Stim Morane: :)
    Mickorod Renard: google phone,,its great but doesnt seem to have a chime facility
    Pila Mulligan: may I share a joke that arrived via email?
    Pila Mulligan: A tourist in San Francisco's Chinatown saw a shop with the sign 'Moishe Plotnik's Laundry.' He went in and saw behind the counter a smiling old Chinese gentleman and asked, 'How did this place get the name 'Moishe Plotnik's Laundry?' The old man answered, "Ah, it is my name, I am owner." "Really? You're Chinese. How did you get a name like Moishe Plotnik?" "Simple," said the old man. "Many year ago I come to this country." "Standing in line at 'Documentation Center of Immigration' man in front of me was from Poland." Lady at counter look at him and say, "What your name?" He say, "Moishe Plotnik." Then she look at me and say, "What your name?" "I say,'Sam Ting'."
    Wol Euler snorts
    Stim Morane: :(
    Pila Mulligan: pun?
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Eliza Madrigal shakes head
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night all
    Mickorod Renard: nite
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Scath :)
    Wol Euler: 'night scath, take care
    Stim Morane: yes, gotta go
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night scath
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Stim :)
    Pila Mulligan: same ting ... bye for now everynone
    Stim Morane: bye everyone
    Bertram Jacobus: have a good time scath
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pila :)
    Mickorod Renard: nite nite all
    Bertram Jacobus: and pila, too
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Mick
    doug Sosa: ok, bye..
    Wol Euler: bye stim, pila, mick
    Wol Euler: bye dooug
    Mickorod Renard: I must go..its not maxines is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye doug
    Bertram Jacobus: bye all leving persons :-)
    Wol Euler: tuesday, I think.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: thanks Wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or day
    Wol Euler: 'night yakuzza.
    Eliza Madrigal: Good Night Jim bob, Good Night Mary sue
    Mickorod Renard: by eliza wol yaku and bert
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: that was really fast
    Bertram Jacobus: mass exodus
    Wol Euler: yeah
    Wol Euler: goodbyes are getting shorter.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes... like "sip"
    Bertram Jacobus: really ?
    Eliza Madrigal: ZIP
    Bertram Jacobus: hm :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: How are you both?
    Wol Euler: prety well thanks, and you?
    Eliza Madrigal: Well :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m very hindered. have big trouble in my new flat. my computer writing would ne to loud :-(
    Wol Euler: good :)
    Wol Euler: bad :(
    Bertram Jacobus: be*
    Wol Euler: silly, actually.
    Bertram Jacobus: they want to throuw me out
    Eliza Madrigal: Yikes
    Bertram Jacobus: throw*
    Eliza Madrigal: You seem like a nice enough fellow :)
    Bertram Jacobus: nice enough ? for what please ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh sorry... another one of those little expressions
    Eliza Madrigal: A Nice Guy :)
    Bertram Jacobus: but for what nice enough, to be not thrown out or what please ? ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: not to disturb people ? i try so hard ... :-/
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... it was just meant to be light, Bert. I know the situation is very troubling for you
    Wol Euler nods
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s crazy, still
    Bertram Jacobus: i work on it
    Wol Euler: yes, itis.
    Wol Euler: quite literally crazy.
    Bertram Jacobus: but it´s still very hard. sorry to say such things, to report them ... :-/
    Wol Euler: Bert, this is not your fault. She would probably be angry at whoever moved in.
    Eliza Madrigal: I read a bit in the logs when pulling together my scribe...and yes that is the way it is
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. but it´s my situation, too, my karma, my fate
    Eliza Madrigal: I am very interested to pick up on the teacher topic from the other day Bert...
    Eliza Madrigal: but I've not been able to figure out how or what exactly it is
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you have more to say about that?
    Bertram Jacobus: teacher ? whom i met the last weekend ? :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: No, you asked in one place about whether PaB had 'no teachers'
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. okay
    Eliza Madrigal: and then in another about Pema's role...
    Eliza Madrigal: and we talked about that with him a bit
    Bertram Jacobus: yes.
    Bertram Jacobus: what were your so far results please ?
    Eliza Madrigal: So I wondered if there were other thoughts there... if that question came out of your interest in buddhism and the traditional teacher model
    Eliza Madrigal: if that is where your question is
    Bertram Jacobus: oh yes
    Bertram Jacobus: it has relations to that
    Bertram Jacobus: but even more may be - my personal condition
    Bertram Jacobus: how to learn with and without teachers
    Bertram Jacobus: and for everybody. same question
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been holding these questions for a few weeks... thinking they get clearer
    Eliza Madrigal: but since you brought it up :)
    Bertram Jacobus: my result so far is : may be times with and without teachers follow each other ?
    Bertram Jacobus: but one doubt i have with these ideas :
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, that is my sense I think too.... and here we are all teachers for one another
    Eliza Madrigal: which appeals to me very much and I've certainly learned so much from so many
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Wol Euler nods
    Bertram Jacobus: does one, do i flee from important and essential tasks when i change in that way my learning with and without a teacher ?
    Bertram Jacobus: do you know, what i mean ?
    Wol Euler: no
    Wol Euler: yes, I know what you mean, no you don't :)
    Wol Euler: life runs in cycles, in phases.
    Bertram Jacobus: uh. lemme think how to express in another way ...
    Wol Euler: no, I understood :)
    Bertram Jacobus: ah :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: puh :o)
    Wol Euler: when you need a teacher, or when you recognize that somebody has something to teach, learn from them.
    Wol Euler: when not, not.
    Wol Euler: where's the problem?
    Wol Euler: or am I being obtuse?
    Eliza Madrigal: No, not obtuse
    Bertram Jacobus: not that i think :-) - but
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) there is a sense though... of when having a teacher for a specific kind of spiritual learning...
    Eliza Madrigal: being able to go to them specifically and they be commited to being bothered :)
    Bertram Jacobus: in the east there is the practise to go the way with the teacher until to the very end, enlightenment. after long time of proof a decision is made and then total devotion follows. i have the impression, that´s may be the fastest way, but here, in the west nearly nobody seems to be able for that
    Bertram Jacobus: ups :o)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes the west is a whole new thing it seems....
    Eliza Madrigal: and so is PaB :)
    Wol Euler: well, this relates to the discussion a few days ago, about going on a "retreat" that was twelve years long.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I missed that
    Bertram Jacobus: i which way does it relate ?
    Eliza Madrigal: or at least missed '12 years'
    Wol Euler: oh no, Bert and I were IMing :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah :)
    Wol Euler: the idea that time and life are nearly infinitely long, and that yo can spend as much time as you wish on anything at all
    Bertram Jacobus: in*
    Bertram Jacobus: when you beliefe in rebirth ...
    Wol Euler: sure, then it would make sense to spend twelve years at a retreat
    Eliza Madrigal smiles... as much as you wish on anything at all... love that
    Wol Euler: because you wouldn't be "missing" anything.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Wol Euler: but if you don't believe in rebirth, then those twelve years have a very differnt value
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. but
    Eliza Madrigal: yes certainly
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe Bert and I are really asking more personal questions than PaB questions.. . am going to keep thinking
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm
    Eliza Madrigal: like, "Can a wide net be precise?"
    Eliza Madrigal: I've seen this one be :)
    Bertram Jacobus: if our surrounding is infinite and my impression goes very strong in that direction - then you miss infinite masses of aspects - nad then the choice what to do gets nearly or really "user defined" ?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, agreed.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: an open slate requires more discernment in some ways
    Eliza Madrigal: more responsibility
    Bertram Jacobus: so one can choose a twelfe year retreat easily if one is a type for that ...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes sure
    Wol Euler smiles. Another fine definition of the importance of how people look at the world.
    Eliza Madrigal is, for the record, not signing up for a 12 yr retreat any time soon
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: Bert seesn that choices are infinite and therefore that I miss most of them, and concludes: going for a 12 yr retreat makes no difference, do it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Though, I feel like I've been on a parenting retreat for 20 years... giggles
    Bertram Jacobus: yes wol. ty :-)
    Wol Euler: I see that chioces are infinite and therefore that I miss most of them, and conclude: it is very important not to waste time on a retreat that lasts 12 years
    Wol Euler chuckles at Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: lol. so people are different :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd do a 3
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: 3 years ? :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I think I'd do 3
    Eliza Madrigal: if it came up :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And my son was older
    Bertram Jacobus: i tried to, but not my way as it seems
    Eliza Madrigal: (which would mean by definition that my daughters were older)
    Bertram Jacobus: not until now
    Eliza Madrigal: Now?
    Bertram Jacobus: may be in future. one never knows i only wanted to let be the occasion open ...
    Bertram Jacobus: sry for my strange english
    Bertram Jacobus: sometimes
    Wol Euler: we would rather say "not yet" for that, Bert.
    Bertram Jacobus: ty !
    Wol Euler: "not until now" means that it has now become possible.
    Bertram Jacobus: ah okay
    Wol Euler: im Sinne von "erst jetzt..."
    Bertram Jacobus: nice that you understand me so fine. will be cause all your german knowledge ...
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Wol Euler: I made the same journey in reverse :)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: but eliza ... back to the pab topics : should we put more focus on them here ?
    Eliza Madrigal: You mean APAPB?
    Bertram Jacobus: for example
    Eliza Madrigal: I do when they come up...
    Paul Namiboo: Hi Folks, I just logged on for a moment to see if I could stop drinking from the bottom of my wine glass!
    Wol Euler: hello paul.
    Eliza Madrigal: Bert, some seem more natural about bringing up particular excercizes
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paul :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hi paul again ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and : yes eliza ... :-)
    Paul Namiboo: I've got a colleague obsderving and I was going to show him SL and fool with the wine glass -- didn't mean to itterupt, I can go elsewhere!
    Eliza Madrigal: For me, I enjoy when they do come up and will ride along :) I've sat with APAPB quite a bit before the retreat... came to understand it a great deal more
    Eliza Madrigal: No, is fine Paul :)
    Paul Namiboo: Any idea how to turn it over? I'm finding it hard to get drunk drinking from the bottom?
    Eliza Madrigal: I have no clue, Paul
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you change hands?
    Bertram Jacobus: sure. right click, edit and turn
    Bertram Jacobus: is it copy and transfer ? then give me one and i can try
    Paul Namiboo: OK -- I'll leave you guys in peace - my colleague is hysterical but I'm going to recruit him. Thanks, and excuse me! Bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye :)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol okay :o)
    Wol Euler: bye bert
    Wol Euler: sorry, paul :)
    Paul Namiboo: Whoops -- I did try changing hands -- but i think I'm still drinking from the bottom
    Wol Euler: force of habit
    Eliza Madrigal: Bert, and Mick is right... looked at his scribe and it is a good sampling :)
    Bertram Jacobus: ? lol :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: ah ! :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yup, you are :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i have it in my mind eliza, thanks ...
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, i should be rational and leave ... :-/
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: me too actually
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm a little overstimulated today... should go too
    Bertram Jacobus: was very nice with you, thanks ! :-)
    Wol Euler: goodngiht all, take care.
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to sit with you both. Night
    Bertram Jacobus: may all beings ... be happy please
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Namaste, Bert :)
    Wol Euler: 'night bert.
    Bertram Jacobus: :-))

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