2009.10.05 19:00 - Back to the Garden

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    Eos was pinch-hitting for Fox. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.


    Pila Mulligan: hi DOug
    doug Sosa: hi pila.
    Pila Mulligan: how are you?
    doug Sosa: ok. two hour radio interview today. and a bunch of meetings mostly in SL. just cooked dinner.
    Pila Mulligan: sounds ok
    Pila Mulligan: and the interview was about?
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi gang
    doug Sosa: You know, when you are here it always feels real to me.
    doug Sosa: When you arrive it always feels real here.
    Pila Mulligan: hmmm
    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh - a trick you can only pull off in SL
    doug Sosa: ops, double typed. Interview about sustainability and garden world politics.
    Pila Mulligan: your book theme, I enjoyed reading about it
    doug Sosa: :)
    doug Sosa: blush
    Eos Amaterasu: book theme?
    Pila Mulligan: I stopped at a new deli in the small village near my house today and the lady at the counter was talking about sustainable ag
    doug Sosa: yes.
    Pila Mulligan: seeing the world as a garden, if I may abuse the idea, Eos
    Pila Mulligan: by over simplification
    doug Sosa: eaos, book theme: since EB wants to live in a combination of natire and civilization, why don't we use our wealth to go there?
    Pila Mulligan: as in Eden :)
    Eos Amaterasu: how do we use our wealth to go there?
    doug Sosa: by intent. take any scene: make it greener, more productive of food and fruti, more useful inclimate moderation, more aesthetic, more recreational..
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm, more an attended grove
    Pila Mulligan: I've used the Eden analogy in arguing against unfettered development in Hawaii
    Pila Mulligan: why do they call it Paradise?
    doug Sosa: This works anywhere, from inner city to the great wild.
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm
    doug Sosa: I read once a pamphlet by John Milton "on divorce". most helpful thing I found, and in it..
    Eos Amaterasu: the phenomenal world is more or less our garden of Eden
    doug Sosa: he says, "the purpose of marriage is to recreate the garden of eden. If that isn't what's haappening, it isn't the garden of Eden."
    doug Sosa: the phenomoneal world is, but not well taken care of nor enhanced. that is the task. James Hillman makes it clear
    Eos Amaterasu: Pila has the right question then - that sounds pretty idealized :-)
    doug Sosa: that our sould is the quality of our experience, and hence includes the mucked up environment.
    doug Sosa: right, guides intent.
    Eos Amaterasu: "real" encounter with the natural "wild"
    Eos Amaterasu: which often happens in nature, in the wild
    doug Sosa: both adapt..
    Eos Amaterasu: can help re-introduce us to our wild



    [Pila took the liberty of adding this image and music link to Eos's chat page --

    Joni Mitchell singing her song about the Woodstock Music and Art Festival of 1969.]


    doug Sosa: you can see our stanford wiki which is setting up seond life groups to explore the social side of sustainability at http://humanitieslab.stanford.edu/MAHB/101
    Eos Amaterasu: Cool, Doug, I'll check this out, and tell my RL local Sl friend as well...
    Pila Mulligan: I had a lucid vision-like dream once while embroiled in a development issue about ten years ago
    Pila Mulligan: the setting was in a pristine mountain area where devlopers wanted to build broadcast antennas
    doug Sosa: what were all those sparkles a moment ago?
    Pila Mulligan: I didn't see them doug :)
    doug Sosa: Pila, great imagery for a dream of bad communication.
    Pila Mulligan: I was there with a very old Hawaiian man in a loin cloth (called a malo here)
    Pila Mulligan: he pointed to a rock at our feet that had bird droppings on it
    Pila Mulligan: then he looked at me and projected a vision within a vision of airplanes flying over Hawaii ...
    Pila Mulligan: dropping big globs of muck on the land -- it was an easy to recognize image
    Pila Mulligan: then it started to rain ... and he pointed to the rock ... as it was being washed clean
    doug Sosa: if only...
    Pila Mulligan: in time
    Pila Mulligan: it is inevitable
    Pila Mulligan: the glop cannot sustain itself
    Eos Amaterasu thinks, like an R Crumb cartoon
    doug Sosa: yes but the sequence may not be attractive, of what comes before the inevitable.
    Pila Mulligan: cataclysm?
    Pila Mulligan: perhaps
    Eos Amaterasu: pain
    Pila Mulligan: or maybe we wake up to the reality of the glop
    Pila Mulligan: and avoid some of that
    Eos Amaterasu: the glop is very powerful
    Eos Amaterasu: but it gets its power from ignorance
    Pila Mulligan: it is profitable
    Pila Mulligan: like a ponzi scheme
    Eos Amaterasu: defective DNA
    Eos Amaterasu: delta from paradise
    doug Sosa: great analoogy : industrialism is a ponzi scheme. indeed.
    Pila Mulligan: you can see it here
    Eos Amaterasu: money as debt is just that
    Pila Mulligan: they've sucked the beauty dry
    Pila Mulligan: tourists sit around looking at resorts now
    Pila Mulligan: Disneyland
    doug Sosa: instead of criticizing, is a restoration approach plausible in Hawaii?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm, we are cartoonifying ourselves
    Pila Mulligan: if we are around to do it is also inevitable
    doug Sosa: It creates jobs
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: already some resorts are being turned into better purposes
    Pila Mulligan: as they become obsolete hulks at the age of 15 years
    doug Sosa: I like to look at these issues from within the 9 sec. , let the categories go and the awareness swim.
    Pila Mulligan: there are alot of homeless people here
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, how do you do that?
    Pila Mulligan: and alot of empty hotel rooms
    Eos Amaterasu: How do you do that with homeless people?
    Pila Mulligan: well, they already give them leftover food ...
    doug Sosa: think of re-homesteading, with a requirement to include agriculture in your plot.
    Eos Amaterasu: a meme
    doug Sosa: right now it is possible to use Americore people to coach and provide security, services, and welfare.
    Eos Amaterasu: Americore?
    Pila Mulligan: the problem is the obstruction of these ideas by a very few
    Pila Mulligan: like a peace corps, Eos
    Pila Mulligan: local
    doug Sosa: Americore is a service through federal grants to cities to hire young people.
    doug Sosa: think of a parade where everyone dresses up like clown versions of those very few, with accurate details.
    Eos Amaterasu thinks, meme warfare
    Pila Mulligan: gureilla theater
    Eos Amaterasu: mime troupe
    doug Sosa: the clash of symbols, the wrestling of meaphores..
    doug Sosa: meta..
    Pila Mulligan: mega works too
    Eos Amaterasu has been dreaming of an Earth Cadet Net
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: habitat partners
    Eos Amaterasu: young warriors of care




    doug Sosa: there is a fellow on the big island, has the earth battalion, Jim Channon, worth googling.
    Eos Amaterasu: Pila and Doug, would you say that the state of mind of paradise is play as being?
    doug Sosa: Eos, what of taking the earth cadet idea into the MAHB discusions?
    Pila Mulligan: not quite :)
    doug Sosa: right, not quite, but hospitable. and PaB is useful in clearing awasy old stuff.
    Eos Amaterasu: Doug, I'd like to. I did a slide show on it a year or two ago....
    doug Sosa: PaB and good reality are slightly at odds, the choice aristotle
    doug Sosa: poses between the life of action and the life of reflection.
    Eos Amaterasu doesn't understand how they are at odds
    Pila Mulligan: sorry, lost you there -- MAHB discusions?
    Eos Amaterasu: we wei is the way
    Eos Amaterasu: re bringing the garden back into the plot
    doug Sosa: Confuscius says, "when you have studied enough, time for public service. Enough public service, time for meditation."
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    doug Sosa: MAHB is the Stanford site, by inheritance, The Millenial Assessment of Human behavior. Mob for short. :)
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    doug Sosa: wu wei is only part. much of the tao is wei wum wei doing without doing.
    doug Sosa: and wei wu wei... :(
    Eos Amaterasu: Dzongsar Khyentse is introducing a 9-year retreat for his students, done thru a commitment of 2 hours per day, will do the same as a traditional 3-year retreat, but he says much better, cause integrated with daily life
    Pila Mulligan: Eos, in my experience the state of mind of paradise is not subject to any specific concept or description -- it is beyond langauge to borrow from the Third Patriarch
    Eos Amaterasu: that should also be true of this very place, and time
    Eos Amaterasu: "are we not be-ing" (sung to the tune of "are we not devo") :-)
    Pila Mulligan: chop wood, carry water
    doug Sosa: there is a fascinating apparent paradox between detachment and eating.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: nice doug
    Eos Amaterasu: if being doesn't come to chopping wood, carying water, it's not really here
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Something like the mind/heart of PaB is necessary, is it not?
    doug Sosa: Yesterday I stacked two cords of wood for the winter..
    Eos Amaterasu: How to _be_, more than how to _do_
    doug Sosa: tried the 9 sec in the process. good.
    Eos Amaterasu: I'll be doing that shortly
    Pila Mulligan: I use propane :)
    Eos Amaterasu: three cords
    doug Sosa: in the process of carying the wood !
    doug Sosa: ah, same page.
    Eos Amaterasu: those kinds of activities are good
    doug Sosa: three is a lot.
    Eos Amaterasu: they are a little bit boring
    Eos Amaterasu: so you can relax into that
    doug Sosa: then there emerges the rhytm
    Eos Amaterasu: and appreciate
    Pila Mulligan: but here it is just a heater giving a boost of several degrees to take a chilly nip out of the air
    Pila Mulligan: not real heating
    doug Sosa: we need another process o Hawaii. I wonder what. Pila ever hear of Jim Dator? Univ of Hawaii futurist?
    Pila Mulligan: maybe, the name is somehow familiar
    doug Sosa: a few degrees might be possible with composting.
    doug Sosa: friends, thanks for this wonderful discussion. I do need to go. Bye.
    Eos Amaterasu: bye doug
    Pila Mulligan: have a nice evening Doug
    Pila Mulligan: see you next time
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: was Doug suggesting you surround your house with compost?
    Pila Mulligan: Doug seems firmly planted in saving the planet
    Pila Mulligan: well the cows under the house were a similar idea
    Pila Mulligan: in the past millenium
    Pila Mulligan: not compost, but a heat source
    Eos Amaterasu: The barn at Windhorse Farm is heated through the winter by compost
    Pila Mulligan: it does not get very cold here
    Pila Mulligan: yep, convecting
    Eos Amaterasu: and supports animals there, who contribute further to the compost
    Pila Mulligan: I heard a very smart idea recently combining hydoponics with aquaculture
    Eos Amaterasu: you need a couple of home elephants, Pila, and you'll be all set
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: would love to have them
    Pila Mulligan: these guys are taking water from their fishponds and cycling it through their hydroponics greenhouses
    Pila Mulligan: fish poop feeds plants
    Pila Mulligan: plants clean water for fish
    Eos Amaterasu: e c o l o g y 




    Pila Mulligan: has someone claimed this session?
    Eos Amaterasu: when you're not thinking of anything problems solve themselves
    Pila Mulligan: I'd be happy tto if not
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, I have
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Pila Mulligan: problems solve themselves in time
    Eos Amaterasu: problems are questions let loose
    Pila Mulligan: but the harm is sometimes aggravated the longer the problems last -- e.g. Iraq
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, long-lasting neuroses, patterns, stucknesses
    Pila Mulligan: so it is a tough call as to when to act to resist a problem's continuation
    Pila Mulligan: but that is dharma skill
    Eos Amaterasu: no really clean action, perhaps
    Pila Mulligan: well, I have succeeded and failed quite a few times in my life in this regard
    Pila Mulligan: and canot find a comon characterization
    Pila Mulligan: things just happen
    Eos Amaterasu: Oh, this was Fox's session
    Pila Mulligan: we have stopped some really big problems here
    Pila Mulligan: by collective action
    Pila Mulligan: but we have also failed to stop some equally big ones
    Pila Mulligan: Fox is busy with something unexpected I heard
    Pila Mulligan: she will be grateful for your help
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: Pila, I will head to be - tomorrow is my shift here....
    Eos Amaterasu: to bed
    Eos Amaterasu: also to be
    Pila Mulligan: ok, Eos, nice to sit with you, as always
    Pila Mulligan: sweet dreams :) (thinking of Fox's lab)
    Eos Amaterasu: A quote from Keats (Psyche):
    Eos Amaterasu:
    And in the midst of this wide quietness
    A rosy sanctuary will I dress
    With the wreath'd trellis of a working brain,
    With buds, and bells, and stars without a name,
    With all the gardener Fancy e'er could fiegn,
    Who breeding flowers, will never breed the same:
    And there shall be for thee all soft delight
    That shadowy thought can win,
    A bright torch, and a casement ope at night,
    To let the warm Love in!

    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: sweet
    Pila Mulligan: aloha
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