2009.10.05 19:00 - Back to the Garden

Eos was pinch-hitting for Fox. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Pila Mulligan: hi DOug
doug Sosa: hi pila.
Pila Mulligan: how are you?
doug Sosa: ok. two hour radio interview today. and a bunch of meetings mostly in SL. just cooked dinner.
Pila Mulligan: sounds ok
Pila Mulligan: and the interview was about?
Pila Mulligan: hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Hi gang
doug Sosa: You know, when you are here it always feels real to me.
doug Sosa: When you arrive it always feels real here.
Pila Mulligan: hmmm
Eos Amaterasu: heh heh - a trick you can only pull off in SL
doug Sosa: ops, double typed. Interview about sustainability and garden world politics.
Pila Mulligan: your book theme, I enjoyed reading about it
doug Sosa: :)
doug Sosa: blush
Eos Amaterasu: book theme?
Pila Mulligan: I stopped at a new deli in the small village near my house today and the lady at the counter was talking about sustainable ag
doug Sosa: yes.
Pila Mulligan: seeing the world as a garden, if I may abuse the idea, Eos
Pila Mulligan: by over simplification
doug Sosa: eaos, book theme: since EB wants to live in a combination of natire and civilization, why don't we use our wealth to go there?
Pila Mulligan: as in Eden :)
Eos Amaterasu: how do we use our wealth to go there?
doug Sosa: by intent. take any scene: make it greener, more productive of food and fruti, more useful inclimate moderation, more aesthetic, more recreational..
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, more an attended grove
Pila Mulligan: I've used the Eden analogy in arguing against unfettered development in Hawaii
Pila Mulligan: why do they call it Paradise?
doug Sosa: This works anywhere, from inner city to the great wild.
Eos Amaterasu: hmm
doug Sosa: I read once a pamphlet by John Milton "on divorce". most helpful thing I found, and in it..
Eos Amaterasu: the phenomenal world is more or less our garden of Eden
doug Sosa: he says, "the purpose of marriage is to recreate the garden of eden. If that isn't what's haappening, it isn't the garden of Eden."
doug Sosa: the phenomoneal world is, but not well taken care of nor enhanced. that is the task. James Hillman makes it clear
Eos Amaterasu: Pila has the right question then - that sounds pretty idealized :-)
doug Sosa: that our sould is the quality of our experience, and hence includes the mucked up environment.
doug Sosa: right, guides intent.
Eos Amaterasu: "real" encounter with the natural "wild"
Eos Amaterasu: which often happens in nature, in the wild
doug Sosa: both adapt..
Eos Amaterasu: can help re-introduce us to our wild

--BELL--

[Pila took the liberty of adding this image and music link to Eos's chat page --

Joni Mitchell singing her song about the Woodstock Music and Art Festival of 1969.]

doug Sosa: you can see our stanford wiki which is setting up seond life groups to explore the social side of sustainability at http://humanitieslab.stanford.edu/MAHB/101
Eos Amaterasu: Cool, Doug, I'll check this out, and tell my RL local Sl friend as well...
Pila Mulligan: I had a lucid vision-like dream once while embroiled in a development issue about ten years ago
Pila Mulligan: the setting was in a pristine mountain area where devlopers wanted to build broadcast antennas
doug Sosa: what were all those sparkles a moment ago?
Pila Mulligan: I didn't see them doug :)
doug Sosa: Pila, great imagery for a dream of bad communication.
Pila Mulligan: I was there with a very old Hawaiian man in a loin cloth (called a malo here)
Pila Mulligan: he pointed to a rock at our feet that had bird droppings on it
Pila Mulligan: then he looked at me and projected a vision within a vision of airplanes flying over Hawaii ...
Pila Mulligan: dropping big globs of muck on the land -- it was an easy to recognize image
Pila Mulligan: then it started to rain ... and he pointed to the rock ... as it was being washed clean
doug Sosa: if only...
Pila Mulligan: in time
Pila Mulligan: it is inevitable
Pila Mulligan: the glop cannot sustain itself
Eos Amaterasu thinks, like an R Crumb cartoon
doug Sosa: yes but the sequence may not be attractive, of what comes before the inevitable.
Pila Mulligan: cataclysm?
Pila Mulligan: perhaps
Eos Amaterasu: pain
Pila Mulligan: or maybe we wake up to the reality of the glop
Pila Mulligan: and avoid some of that
Eos Amaterasu: the glop is very powerful
Eos Amaterasu: but it gets its power from ignorance
Pila Mulligan: it is profitable
Pila Mulligan: like a ponzi scheme
Eos Amaterasu: defective DNA
Eos Amaterasu: delta from paradise
doug Sosa: great analoogy : industrialism is a ponzi scheme. indeed.
Pila Mulligan: you can see it here
Eos Amaterasu: money as debt is just that
Pila Mulligan: they've sucked the beauty dry
Pila Mulligan: tourists sit around looking at resorts now
Pila Mulligan: Disneyland
doug Sosa: instead of criticizing, is a restoration approach plausible in Hawaii?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, we are cartoonifying ourselves
Pila Mulligan: if we are around to do it is also inevitable
doug Sosa: It creates jobs
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: already some resorts are being turned into better purposes
Pila Mulligan: as they become obsolete hulks at the age of 15 years
doug Sosa: I like to look at these issues from within the 9 sec. , let the categories go and the awareness swim.
Pila Mulligan: there are alot of homeless people here
Eos Amaterasu: Ah, how do you do that?
Pila Mulligan: and alot of empty hotel rooms
Eos Amaterasu: How do you do that with homeless people?
Pila Mulligan: well, they already give them leftover food ...
doug Sosa: think of re-homesteading, with a requirement to include agriculture in your plot.
Eos Amaterasu: a meme
doug Sosa: right now it is possible to use Americore people to coach and provide security, services, and welfare.
Eos Amaterasu: Americore?
Pila Mulligan: the problem is the obstruction of these ideas by a very few
Pila Mulligan: like a peace corps, Eos
Pila Mulligan: local
doug Sosa: Americore is a service through federal grants to cities to hire young people.
doug Sosa: think of a parade where everyone dresses up like clown versions of those very few, with accurate details.
Eos Amaterasu thinks, meme warfare
Pila Mulligan: gureilla theater
Eos Amaterasu: mime troupe
doug Sosa: the clash of symbols, the wrestling of meaphores..
doug Sosa: meta..
Pila Mulligan: mega works too
Eos Amaterasu has been dreaming of an Earth Cadet Net
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: habitat partners
Eos Amaterasu: young warriors of care

--BELL--

doug Sosa: there is a fellow on the big island, has the earth battalion, Jim Channon, worth googling.
Eos Amaterasu: Pila and Doug, would you say that the state of mind of paradise is play as being?
doug Sosa: Eos, what of taking the earth cadet idea into the MAHB discusions?
Pila Mulligan: not quite :)
doug Sosa: right, not quite, but hospitable. and PaB is useful in clearing awasy old stuff.
Eos Amaterasu: Doug, I'd like to. I did a slide show on it a year or two ago....
doug Sosa: PaB and good reality are slightly at odds, the choice aristotle
doug Sosa: poses between the life of action and the life of reflection.
Eos Amaterasu doesn't understand how they are at odds
Pila Mulligan: sorry, lost you there -- MAHB discusions?
Eos Amaterasu: we wei is the way
Eos Amaterasu: re bringing the garden back into the plot
doug Sosa: Confuscius says, "when you have studied enough, time for public service. Enough public service, time for meditation."
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
doug Sosa: MAHB is the Stanford site, by inheritance, The Millenial Assessment of Human behavior. Mob for short. :)
Pila Mulligan: thanks
doug Sosa: wu wei is only part. much of the tao is wei wum wei doing without doing.
doug Sosa: and wei wu wei... :(
Eos Amaterasu: Dzongsar Khyentse is introducing a 9-year retreat for his students, done thru a commitment of 2 hours per day, will do the same as a traditional 3-year retreat, but he says much better, cause integrated with daily life
Pila Mulligan: Eos, in my experience the state of mind of paradise is not subject to any specific concept or description -- it is beyond langauge to borrow from the Third Patriarch
Eos Amaterasu: that should also be true of this very place, and time
Eos Amaterasu: "are we not be-ing" (sung to the tune of "are we not devo") :-)
Pila Mulligan: chop wood, carry water
doug Sosa: there is a fascinating apparent paradox between detachment and eating.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: nice doug
Eos Amaterasu: if being doesn't come to chopping wood, carying water, it's not really here
doug Sosa: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Something like the mind/heart of PaB is necessary, is it not?
doug Sosa: Yesterday I stacked two cords of wood for the winter..
Eos Amaterasu: How to _be_, more than how to _do_
doug Sosa: tried the 9 sec in the process. good.
Eos Amaterasu: I'll be doing that shortly
Pila Mulligan: I use propane :)
Eos Amaterasu: three cords
doug Sosa: in the process of carying the wood !
doug Sosa: ah, same page.
Eos Amaterasu: those kinds of activities are good
doug Sosa: three is a lot.
Eos Amaterasu: they are a little bit boring
Eos Amaterasu: so you can relax into that
doug Sosa: then there emerges the rhytm
Eos Amaterasu: and appreciate
Pila Mulligan: but here it is just a heater giving a boost of several degrees to take a chilly nip out of the air
Pila Mulligan: not real heating
doug Sosa: we need another process o Hawaii. I wonder what. Pila ever hear of Jim Dator? Univ of Hawaii futurist?
Pila Mulligan: maybe, the name is somehow familiar
doug Sosa: a few degrees might be possible with composting.
doug Sosa: friends, thanks for this wonderful discussion. I do need to go. Bye.
Eos Amaterasu: bye doug
Pila Mulligan: have a nice evening Doug
Pila Mulligan: see you next time
doug Sosa: :)
Eos Amaterasu: was Doug suggesting you surround your house with compost?
Pila Mulligan: Doug seems firmly planted in saving the planet
Pila Mulligan: well the cows under the house were a similar idea
Pila Mulligan: in the past millenium
Pila Mulligan: not compost, but a heat source
Eos Amaterasu: The barn at Windhorse Farm is heated through the winter by compost
Pila Mulligan: it does not get very cold here
Pila Mulligan: yep, convecting
Eos Amaterasu: and supports animals there, who contribute further to the compost
Pila Mulligan: I heard a very smart idea recently combining hydoponics with aquaculture
Eos Amaterasu: you need a couple of home elephants, Pila, and you'll be all set
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: would love to have them
Pila Mulligan: these guys are taking water from their fishponds and cycling it through their hydroponics greenhouses
Pila Mulligan: fish poop feeds plants
Pila Mulligan: plants clean water for fish
Eos Amaterasu: e c o l o g y 

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: has someone claimed this session?
Eos Amaterasu: when you're not thinking of anything problems solve themselves
Pila Mulligan: I'd be happy tto if not
Eos Amaterasu: yes, I have
Pila Mulligan: ok
Pila Mulligan: problems solve themselves in time
Eos Amaterasu: problems are questions let loose
Pila Mulligan: but the harm is sometimes aggravated the longer the problems last -- e.g. Iraq
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, long-lasting neuroses, patterns, stucknesses
Pila Mulligan: so it is a tough call as to when to act to resist a problem's continuation
Pila Mulligan: but that is dharma skill
Eos Amaterasu: no really clean action, perhaps
Pila Mulligan: well, I have succeeded and failed quite a few times in my life in this regard
Pila Mulligan: and canot find a comon characterization
Pila Mulligan: things just happen
Eos Amaterasu: Oh, this was Fox's session
Pila Mulligan: we have stopped some really big problems here
Pila Mulligan: by collective action
Pila Mulligan: but we have also failed to stop some equally big ones
Pila Mulligan: Fox is busy with something unexpected I heard
Pila Mulligan: she will be grateful for your help
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Pila, I will head to be - tomorrow is my shift here....
Eos Amaterasu: to bed
Eos Amaterasu: also to be
Pila Mulligan: ok, Eos, nice to sit with you, as always
Pila Mulligan: sweet dreams :) (thinking of Fox's lab)
Eos Amaterasu: A quote from Keats (Psyche):
Eos Amaterasu:

And in the midst of this wide quietness
A rosy sanctuary will I dress
With the wreath'd trellis of a working brain,
With buds, and bells, and stars without a name,
With all the gardener Fancy e'er could fiegn,
Who breeding flowers, will never breed the same:
And there shall be for thee all soft delight
That shadowy thought can win,
A bright torch, and a casement ope at night,
To let the warm Love in!

Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: sweet
Pila Mulligan: aloha