2009.10.23 19:00 - Touching Virtuality

The Guardian for this meeting was Dakini Rhode. The comments are by Dakini Rhode.

Dakini Rhode: good evening, Doug
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Doug
doug Sosa: i seem to not be here yet :(
doug Sosa: ah..
Dakini Rhode: to me, you seem to be here :)
Eos Amaterasu: Ditto :-)
doug Sosa: looks are deceiving, even in SL..lol
Paradise Tennant: :) says hi to the nearly here doug
Dakini Rhode: haha yes, you never can tell where a person is, can you?
doug Sosa: Right, even if you are there.
Eos Amaterasu: That's kind of a feeling, not being able to be quite here
Dakini Rhode: i kinow that feeling
Paradise Tennant: or torn between place .. dwelling one place in your mind and another in your body .. very much the way we live day to day
Dakini Rhode: and the feeling when you suddenly notice, ah, i'm here now
doug Sosa: why don't we get more confused about sl and rl that way?
doug Sosa: hey, i think i know more clearly that i am in my offcice when i am also in sl.
Eos Amaterasu: because you're sitting at your computer?
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Paradise Tennant: or because the experience is fragmented between two worlds so to speak :)
doug Sosa: each clarifies the presence of the other?
doug Sosa: Computer! I forgot, just me at my desk and this window out on the back porch with you folks.
Dakini Rhode: :-)
Paradise Tennant: sort of layers of the same sense of self in different experiential vehicles :)
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: do wish I could fly in rl
doug Sosa: i wonder if the 9 sec does the same thing - benefits by presence of the non 9 sec.
Eos Amaterasu: contrast can help
Paradise Tennant: would love to be able to fall from extreme heights and then just do that little dust off
Eos Amaterasu: or hinder
doug Sosa: you can fly in rl, just not very well, not so anyone could even notice.
doug Sosa: I love that dust off.
Paradise Tennant: me too
Eos Amaterasu: fall into the 9 secs
Paradise Tennant: yes!
doug Sosa: hm, i kind of go in sideways i think.
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Dakini Rhode: i'm curious, what is your sense of self when you're interacting thru an SL avatar?
Paradise Tennant: do a physic dust off
Paradise Tennant: *psychic
doug Sosa: dakini, ask more..
Dakini Rhode: <observing 90 sec silence...>
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Dakini Rhode: ok i gave you 90 secs to think about that...
Dakini Rhode: or not :)
Eos Amaterasu: same as thru RL avatar....
Dakini Rhode: do you feel the SL avatar is "you"?
Paradise Tennant: I think it lifts some restrictions .. makes you more playful .. more open to experiences .. creativity .. is more tuned in
Eos Amaterasu: interesting how sense of identity of you - for instance, Doug - who I've met in RL - can be there across SL, RL
Eos Amaterasu: and can also include DL, dream life (had recent dream involving SL & RL characters)
Eos Amaterasu: our "identities" wander through different worlds and embodiments
Paradise Tennant: and lifetimes perhaps
doug Sosa: I feel like ia ma me, but not quite the same me. here i fel mor colorful, more vital, more aroused, more competent.
Paradise Tennant: lol
Eos Amaterasu: Yes Paradise, especially this lifetime is like a great big 9 secs
doug Sosa: And then i try to live up to it back in RL.
Paradise Tennant: yes
Eos Amaterasu: that's the exceiting thing about SL, how it can reflect back on RL
Paradise Tennant: I also enjoy the estetics of sl .. the graphic design element the beauty here
doug Sosa: yes, and i actually feel like i've been there when i leave, being in a beautiful place was part of the real day.
Eos Amaterasu: maybe perceiving and emptiness are more apparently one here in SL :-)
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Dakini Rhode: i think i've learned things, things about ways of being, here in sl that very likely have had an influence on my mind
Paradise Tennant: it is a one metaphor for many buddhist precepts really
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Paradise Tennant: hmm i met interesting people .. learned alot .. listened to some amazing music that lifts both your rl and sl soul :)
Dakini Rhode: backing up a bit, that's one of the exciting things about VR in general, including SL
Dakini Rhode: the mind apparently does not distinguish between real and virtual experience
Paradise Tennant: *wonderful
Dakini Rhode: it's all experience
Paradise Tennant: yes precisely
Paradise Tennant: it is all experience
Eos Amaterasu: there is no non-virtual experience, is there?
Paradise Tennant: :)
Dakini Rhode: :)
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: so true eos
doug Sosa: well, i know i can't reach out and touch you here, but in rl..
Eos Amaterasu: touch is also virtual
Dakini Rhode: doug you just need the right animations
Paradise Tennant: rl has more texture ..more sensory ..sensations .. love smelling for instance ..but it is all in our heads too~
Eos Amaterasu: (oh oh)
doug Sosa: no, i know the difference.
doug Sosa: the 9 sec in rl brings me closer to that, not closer to the virtual essence of it.
Eos Amaterasu: ?
doug Sosa: Closer to the non virtual presence of being.
Eos Amaterasu: ¿
doug Sosa: si senor.
Eos Amaterasu: presence - is it virtual or not?
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doug Sosa: we are getting in deep here. we need to know and affirm the difference between what bleeds and what doesn't,
Eos Amaterasu: the presence of appearance... as a _presentation_ by being
Eos Amaterasu: (hi Fox)
Dakini Rhode: hellow Fox
Paradise Tennant: hiya fox :)
doug Sosa: foxy.
Fox Monacular: Hello Dakini, Eos, Paradise, Doug
Eos Amaterasu: I think there's an earth quality to the 9 secs which recognizes "bleeding"
Eos Amaterasu: and all its effects, including both life and death
Dakini Rhode: howdy Resting
Eos Amaterasu: the food is good that you taste after you've been hungry a long time
Resting Thor: hi all!
doug Sosa: yes, that's why i say the 9 sec takes me further, not closer, to virtuality. the 9 sec is definitely not virtual. need to watch out for conceptual frames here.
Fox Monacular: Hello Resting
Eos Amaterasu: hmm
Eos Amaterasu: can you actually touch anything?
Paradise Tennant: I am going to have to scoot before the next bell .. going to say my thanks yous and good byes ahead of time ..wishing everyone a lovely evening :)
Eos Amaterasu will observe touch in this next 90 secs
Paradise Tennant: hiya resting :)
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Dakini Rhode: you too Paradise...
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Eos Amaterasu: touch is sense of pressure; also sense of being affected, moved; identity questioned
Eos Amaterasu: karmic cause & effect happen in space that's both external and internal, but they still happen
doug Sosa: when we call it "karmic" are we not moving into conceptual sapce, more virtual?
Eos Amaterasu: sensation of hunger is sensation, and so virtual - but it's still hunger!
Eos Amaterasu: by karmic I mean that if I don't eat I will eventually die
doug Sosa: ah, THAT karmic :)
Fox Monacular: touch is also the sense of agency
Eos Amaterasu listens
Fox Monacular: both delineating boundaries and extending them
Fox Monacular: through touch we are being affected and also effect on others
doug Sosa: The most mysterious to me is the real presence of another person, and how it can slip into virtuality at momnet and i have the concept but not the care of another.
Eos Amaterasu: we're sophisticated paramecia
doug Sosa: By care i mean that sense of needing to be careful with another soul.
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Resting Thor: our processing of touch stimuli is very spatial
Eos Amaterasu: care for another is a kind of preence of them in us
Eos Amaterasu: presence
Resting Thor: here a touch there a touch :)
Fox Monacular: and perhaps presence of them in us too
Eos Amaterasu: in our heart
doug Sosa: but not virtual, though it is an easy mistake to make, as when we love in the other a projection of ourself rather than a deeper perception.
Fox Monacular: the difference is not always obvious to sensation
Dakini Rhode: doug i'm curious, since Eos shared you had met in RL, do you have a different sense in SL of those you've met RL?
Dakini Rhode: knowing the person behind the avatar, does that allow the feeling of caring to present itself?
Eos Amaterasu: there's the RL body and circumstances and history and ways of behaving
Eos Amaterasu: and there's the SL of all those as well
Eos Amaterasu: and there's some sense of identity across those - I feel sl/rl enrich each other
Eos Amaterasu: and sense of who that person is....
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doug Sosa: I am thinking about this. yes and but. I feel I know eos better, i compare it to not having seen pila, whom i still feel i know.
doug Sosa: But the real pila is still many possibilities to me whereas eos is more real and less filled with possibilities.
doug Sosa: (I like the one he is).
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Dakini Rhode: it crosses my mind that there still the same number of possibilities (for Eos), only not for the physical appearance of Eos maybe
Eos Amaterasu: maybe also past history(ies) are constrained
Resting Thor: i agree except why limit the future of Eos based on memories of past visual sightings
Eos Amaterasu: Eos could create SL avatars and alts with various degrees of history, current appearance, etc
Eos Amaterasu: the rl body and history and to some extent future are constrained (age, for example)
Eos Amaterasu: however, maybe both Eos and his RL are presentations of being
doug Sosa: I thinkit would be mistake to treat those presentations as equal. one bleeds, the other doesn't.
doug Sosa: (back to the dust off after the fall in sl)
doug Sosa: I am doing dinner later tha usual and goota go rescue the chicken.. byt.
Eos Amaterasu: yes, agreed: I see that as not ignoring cause and effect
Dakini Rhode: k
Eos Amaterasu kind of doubts the chicken will "really" get rescued :-)
Dakini Rhode: i was just about to ask doug to clarify, as i think i began to understand what he meant about "caring"
Dakini Rhode: what i thought i saw was that doug may not "care" about what happens to the SL avatar in the same way he cares about what happens to the RL avatar
Dakini Rhode: but there is a chicken to be rescued, now that affects the RL avatar
Dakini Rhode: hunger etc
Eos Amaterasu: hunger is apparent, therefore virtual, but no less real
Fox Monacular: sorry everyone, I have to leave too
Dakini Rhode: especially when the family is waiting for dinner :)
Resting Thor: gnight fox
Fox Monacular: good evening to everyone:
Eos Amaterasu: Actually, ditto, past my expiry time tonght
Dakini Rhode: nite fox
Eos Amaterasu: Caio all!
Dakini Rhode: thanks all for the chat
Resting Thor: thanks!
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