2010.01.09 07:00 - Struggle theme session 5

The Guardian for this meeting was sophia Placebo. The comments are by sophia Placebo.

 

Shingo.....

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Sophia :)
sophia Placebo: morning
sophia Placebo: :) hi
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Singo Yao :)
sophia Placebo: hi shingo yo
Shingo Yao: wan
sophia Placebo: ohayo ?
Shingo Yao: bawwow
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
sophia Placebo: lol
sophia Placebo: have you been here befor shingo?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza
sophia Placebo: hello eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon, Sophia, Shingo. Sorry to be late :)
Shingo Yao: what do you guys doing here
SophiaSharon Larnia: np I'm usually late
sophia Placebo: we meditiate
Shingo Yao: meditation or something else?
Shingo Yao: i see
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
sophia Placebo: and something else
sophia Placebo: we record our conversations and post them online , is that ok with you shingo?
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb please
Shingo Yao: i tell good place to mediate "inspire space park" you should be in there
sophia Placebo: been there befor
Shingo Yao: no trouble at all
Eliza Madrigal: We gather four times a day Shingo, engage in micro-meditations (90 seconds while here-every 15 minutes-9 sec otherwise) and have discussions...
Shingo Yao: nothing hide
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes I like Space Park... fun place... tai chi balls, etc
Shingo Yao: very specifice , just like german people , are you from german?
sophia Placebo: shingo ....
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Today we are going to continue a discussion we've been having on struggle..
Shingo Yao: i think i am right
Eliza Madrigal is not not german
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia is a mutt so may be have some german
Eliza Madrigal: but works to be precise... which is an illusive goal
Shingo Yao: i am from far far east , old man , mononofu
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, well in those terms yes, some german on my father's side...
Eliza Madrigal: lots of things
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, youre the cutest thing Shingo love your avatar
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've purposely not thought about struggle, in preparation for this session
Shingo Yao: thanks but you can't tell who i am , just by looking at my profile , you will see my 1st life photo , that's me
SophiaSharon Larnia: to let it go
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting, Sophia!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: hi all :-)
sophia Placebo: hi bert
Shingo Yao: speaking of the discussion , what things you discuss , i am curious if you don't mind
sophia Placebo: we discuss reality
Shingo Yao: daily life matter or something more big issue
SophiaSharon Larnia: youve undergone a makeover Bertram :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm crashed
Eliza Madrigal: This is a link to our wiki site... Chats on various topics have been recorded for quite a while now. http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Bertram Jacobus: me ? crash ? no - don´t understand ? sry -
sophia Placebo: self centered for me and more universal for others , depends
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry i didnt see you move it was so fast lol
Eliza Madrigal: yes, both, all...
Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes I thought you poofed too Bert
Shingo Yao: well , anyway , thanks
Shingo Yao: see you guys
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Shingo
sophia Placebo: bye !
Bertram Jacobus: bye shingo ? ;-)

Eliza Madrigal: Please join us again Shingo, bye

 

Struggle and solidity 

Bertram Jacobus: was not easy to find a nice place to sit this time ...
Eliza Madrigal: Hello CosmicFlower :) What a beautiful name!
Bertram Jacobus: hey cosmicflower :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Cosmicflower
sophia Placebo: hello cosmicflower
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thank You ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello to All <3
Bertram Jacobus: sophia , new skin ? :-)
sophia Placebo: we would be talking about struggle flower
sophia Placebo: lol yeah , isnt sl amazing
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, we've gathered a few times before now to discuss this topic from a few angles...
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Zen
Bertram Jacobus: "absolutely" ! :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen
sophia Placebo: hi zen
Zen Arado: Hi all
Eliza Madrigal: Gaya and Sophia began with a discussion of different kinds of struggle...
Bertram Jacobus: helllo zen :-)
sophia Placebo: so eliza can you say more about solidity and struggle?
Eliza Madrigal: My thoughts on 'solidity' have to do with perceived obstacles...
Eliza Madrigal: on working with the very solid material of our life experiences..
Eliza Madrigal: things we can't 'wait' to deal with....
Eliza Madrigal: we feel we can't sit with and work on over prolonged periods...
Eliza Madrigal: In reading the logs I see this has come up in various ways and surely it seems a PaB practice kind of topic... why we try to bring the practice into every thing....
Eliza Madrigal: or let everything into the practice... keep it going/continuity?
Bertram Jacobus: hi magic ! ... :-)
Zen Arado: Hi Magic
SophiaSharon Larnia: solidity to me has been lately about change
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Magic
Eliza Madrigal: Please say more Sharon?
sophia Placebo: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?...e_session_4%29
Bertram Jacobus: have a seat if you like :-)
sophia Placebo: the link of prevouse sessions
sophia Placebo: hello magic
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Magic, we're continuing a theme session on the topic of 'struggle' today
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thanks for posting that Sophia!
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm, what comes to my mind about "struggle" is to do with different kind of pain
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and where do that come from?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, and why?
Bertram Jacobus: and the talks here are recorded and put on a wiki. we must ask all people if thats okay for them - magic ? you allow that ? (otherwise your comments would be cut out) ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: we struggle when things change and feel the emptiness of the perceived loss
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and also to do with One-Self`s own choose , how people do choose to think, or act, or both
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes.... loss can be quite painful
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, those kind of things do happen in life all the time, changing.. but what happens if we can just trust.. so that we notice we have trusted on Trut??
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: fear to loose something..
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: can we own anything in here?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how we can loose it then?
Eliza Madrigal: :) Lots of questions Cosmic, but I definitely hear what you are saying....
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, in a big picture way we understand that we can't hold onto things and this is what causes us pain so often....
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Cosmicflower :0 that is the question
Eliza Madrigal: In a day to day practice way.... We are hit with surprises...
Eliza Madrigal: and even things we know are coming we can't plan or expect...
Eliza Madrigal: and that can hit hard
Eliza Madrigal: in a solid way, perhaps
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, its because we can not controll everyhting, and especially others free will to choose
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think
Zen Arado: cold you unpack what you mean by 'solid' a bit Eliza?
Zen Arado: or anyone ?
Eliza Madrigal: tangible, I suppose... obstacles in particular, or realities that must be dealt with, from my view...
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Others are dealing with this in various ways
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry brb
Eliza Madrigal: Sharon mentioned change, for instance... How do we day-to-day, moment-to-moment handle change....
Zen Arado: what is the opposite of solid in this context then?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what if we choose not to controll so much, and choose for aceptance instead. Would it then easy the pain?
Eliza Madrigal: In the last struggle session, Sophia uncovered a clue I think... "The WHY"
Eliza Madrigal: Cosmic... yes we choose in a large sense... and then perhaps thing act on that choice in a daily sense?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Yes, I think life if contious creation
SophiaSharon Larnia: several things going on in rl, sorry again.... solidity in the sense of being present, embodied and mindful of the moments that pass, as standing back and letting experiences present themselves
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh
Eliza Madrigal: So there in a very solid way and yet with space to allow?
Eliza Madrigal: to work with what comes up?
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, its a fine line, easy to slip into, forgive me for saying, but mindlessness ;p
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Zen Arado: like a solid 'watcher' in the background?
sophia Placebo: struggle definitly needs solidity
SophiaSharon Larnia: no i am the watcher
Eliza Madrigal: Say more please, sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I am being a funny word too
SophiaSharon Larnia: (phrase i meant sorry to interupt)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, it came to my mind, that perhaps we choose what to experience at the end. There is no such "force" who "gives" things or issues front of uss
Eliza Madrigal: Not interrupting at all Sharon :)
sophia Placebo: to be but a watcher , to let things happen , to accept things that happened needs some sort of solidity from one , i guess i understand sharon right ?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: if there would be "some one" who says what "comes to" then how is the free will to choose?
Zen Arado: I'm not so sure we have all that much choice in life
Zen Arado: maybe a little
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think its all up to Uss
Eliza Madrigal: or maybe that's all we have zen
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and who we choose to help
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: then right persons "appear" "front of uss"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Or to help us
Eliza Madrigal: but we don't see clearly... don't see the millions of choices we can make second-to-second perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: choices that line up with our heart intentions, etc.
Zen Arado: most of my reading seems to point more to fluidity - 'going with the flow' rather than soidity - but maybe I am taking your meaning of solidity wring?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, there are limits in human mind
SophiaSharon Larnia: im not sure if I understood you correctly Sophia, but I think so, I feel less like a watcher and and more as an interface that experiences are presented upon, sort of
SophiaSharon Larnia: the ego will make what it will of situations
SophiaSharon Larnia: Zen, i know what you mean, thats why Im trying to work it out
Eliza Madrigal: When sophia in previous sessions talked about the 'why', I realized that's a powerful clarifier. The ego can make things seem very solid, unmoveable, unchanging
Eliza Madrigal: and like we are at the mercy of something 'outside'
Zen Arado: I am trying to break up my ;solid' habit patterne
sophia Placebo: i meant something like , if you are poor and hungery , and you had a chance to steal from some store , but you stopped and thought wat you are up to and whats so ever made you stop that moment you hold on to it and watch your chance of getting some food vanish , that needs solidity
SophiaSharon Larnia: but everything changes
Zen Arado: patterns - have a lot of trouble with that
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: This is something funny to frame. Worth struggling to try, I think though!
Zen Arado: that sounds more like developing good character traits - the discipline to sit every day for instance?
Eliza Madrigal: The decision not to steal, sophia, is more 'solid' in a sense... than the need to eat....
sophia Placebo nods

Struggle and ego

Zen Arado: there could be a time you were justified in stealing
Eliza Madrigal: the knowledge and acceptance of things changing being necessary for life, can perhaps help us to deal with what comes up, too... to get through it
sophia Placebo nods to zen , we tend to decorate justifications
Zen Arado: prajna, wisdom, or right understanding - is that what we are loking for here?
Bertram Jacobus: me - yes :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Definitely, Zen :)
Eliza Madrigal: At the same time... how to we not let discussions and abstractions become an obstacle themselves...
Eliza Madrigal: dealing with day-to-day?
Zen Arado: to see clearly how to act in each situation without having to depend on rules that might be too inflexible?
Eliza Madrigal nods... we can create distance with 'decorations' perhaps
Bertram Jacobus: not to depend is an enlightened state (sorry for that word) (?) :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm ;) if there are "must" or "must not`s" it makes always my "alarm bells to ring" ;)
Bertram Jacobus: we must die :o)
Eliza Madrigal: yes or stop putting enlightenment on a pedestal 'away from what we have in our hands/lifes' ?
sophia Placebo: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: must we?? ;D
Bertram Jacobus: sure. i saw not one body which hadn´t to -
Zen Arado: yes we have it now if we allow it
Bertram Jacobus: it´s a consequence of birth i think
sophia Placebo: like we choose that bert
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but when we dye, do we dye.. isnt it another life
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: in every way
Bertram Jacobus: i mean that very simple. not elaborated
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: can we dye?
Eliza Madrigal: We like to dwell on life, but it is important to realize that death and life are in the same place, perhaps... where we are now
Bertram Jacobus: i again simply - don´t know
Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle warns about putting enlightenment as somethng to be achieved in the future
Eliza Madrigal: we're surrounded by things that have died or are dying... things that are coming to life, etc
Bertram Jacobus: nice warning ! :-)
sophia Placebo: nods to zon
Eliza Madrigal nods
sophia Placebo: zen*
Eliza Madrigal: a line from him I love is "When you are seeing the future, you are seeing it now..."
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: One day I had interesting conversation with one person about enlightement
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think its not the way its "teached"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: "not to do this or that"
Eliza Madrigal: that even if you build a time machine and go back to the past, you arrive there 'now'...hehe
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But following One`s heart
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes nice Cosmic
Zen Arado: yes Eliza
Zen Arado: it was always now :)
Eliza Madrigal: So there is something essential in a way ....
sophia Placebo: heart works with association with ego , desire and emotions to run the body so one must know where the order to move your body/emotions come from
Eliza Madrigal: even when we let go we embrace in a larger way, etc..somehow
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow sophia, yes that's a powerful point re emotions/body
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm, I think ego is worked with head
Eliza Madrigal: and how we affect others too, emotionally. We can't always 'help' in a tangible way but we can just be together and it matters
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: And heart do work with One`s own truth
Zen Arado: emotions are said to be physical manifestations of egoic? thoughts
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go, nice to see everyone, bye for now :)
Zen Arado: not sure if they are necessarily egoic
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, how about Love then
Zen Arado: bye Sharon
sophia Placebo: bye sharon :)
Eliza Madrigal: well, less ego and the emotions perhaps are clearer?
Bertram Jacobus: bye sophia s :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, by Sharon. Thanks for coming :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye
SophiaSharon Larnia: waves
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Sophia
Eliza Madrigal: but to let go of ego, might be good to shovel out the "Why"
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Bertram Jacobus: for me, emotions are a bit similar to thoughts - "only" with more cinging ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Is ego always "bad" thing?
Bertram Jacobus: clinging*
sophia Placebo: i g2g too , thanks Eliza for this session , it was amazing ! lots of great thoughts
Eliza Madrigal: no, seems quite necessary to function in the world Cosmic
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks so much Sophia! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
Eliza Madrigal isn't sure we came near the topic but yes some important ideas
Bertram Jacobus: ego is a problem, because it divides. but a weak ego is a problem too. so it´s explained : first strenghten the ego then dissolve it
Eliza Madrigal: :))))
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think it might not always be that kind of "thing" we need to get rid off, like most "teatch

 

Cosmicflower

 

Bertram Jacobus: bye sophia p
Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Sophia <3
Eliza Madrigal: yes I much agree actualy Cosmic....
Eliza Madrigal: ego perhaps is supposed to be more a tool or outline
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But what if person do have a Good Will, in every choose to make?
Eliza Madrigal: and we mistaken it for the 'piont'
Eliza Madrigal: point rather
Eliza Madrigal: or center
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Couldn`t ego be beautifull then?
Eliza Madrigal: if it made room for beauty, for others, mainly ....
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh ack
Eliza Madrigal: sorry bell :)
Zen Arado: I think the problem is when we identify with the ego - are swamped by it
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm, it cames to my mind in short way, that less rules, less sadness and struggle
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I think of ego as someone coming around with a picture of themselves and putting it in the middle of everything... heh...
Eliza Madrigal: gorgeous waterfall, with my face on it, etc. :) Even if the face is a nice one, still not appropriate...hehe
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or less controlling, and instead of it acceptance and understanding
Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes
Eliza Madrigal: but the waterfall wants the observer...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmmh, but isn`t there also a deeper ego, what follows us from lifetime to another
Eliza Madrigal: I have trouble with technicalities sometimes... like what we call one thing or another...
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think my personality will go from one place to another, for instance
Zen Arado: yes - we get lost in words
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
Bertram Jacobus: gnarf
Eliza Madrigal: gnarf?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: sry. wrong window lol
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Well, on that note... maybe wind up. Funny session... lots of jumping beans
Zen Arado: (still wondering ) :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes hard not to wonder about gnarf
Bertram Jacobus: lol
Bertram Jacobus: another nickname ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal will say Goodbye for now. Thanks everyone
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza ! :-)
Zen Arado: ok bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you Cosmic
Zen Arado: gtg too
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thank You, <3
Bertram Jacobus: bye zen
Zen Arado: bye
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Same, wonderfull to meet you Eliza ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how it was Your week?
Bertram Jacobus: ty. fine - and yours ? :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: very good. had lots of fun happenings
Bertram Jacobus: what, for example ? :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and laughs
Bertram Jacobus: or which ones ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: which kind of ? :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: one son of mine had his birthday party
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I met today wonderfull people
Bertram Jacobus: ah ! how old is he ? :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: 8 year old now ;)
Bertram Jacobus: okayy :-)
Bertram Jacobus: and where did you meet the nice people ?! :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I work as an independent beauty consultant, and i have thought to take another cosmetic serie to my business
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: There were a educational situation of new products
Bertram Jacobus: oh i see ! :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: those people all vere aware of re-incarnation etc "stuff"
Bertram Jacobus: whaow
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: kind of family reunion to see them ;)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. nice :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: connected me to creece and egypt... ;)