2010.01.11 07:00 - In Touch Out There

The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku.

Geoff and I start slowly in this quiet Monday morning, talking about the weather, moving on toward objective/intuitive approaches when we are delighted by twinkling bell sounds which turn out to be Eliza in her dancing outfit.

Geoff Baily: nice to be crosslegged I find
Geoff Baily: better for sitting
Geoff Baily: for me
Eden Haiku: Yes but I cannot find it on this cushion...
Eden Haiku: Ah it is better on a blue cushion for that...
Geoff Baily: yes
--BELL--
Eden Haiku: Ah!
Eden Haiku: A quiet morning isn'it Geoff? How is the weather in France?
Geoff Baily: its good
Eden Haiku: England, Germany and Florida and Delhi are having very cold weather.
Geoff Baily: here at present cold 0 and dry
Eden Haiku: In Montreal it is 2 above zero.
Geoff Baily: but you have had -15 earlier I think
Eden Haiku: Any topic you would like to the PaB session this morning Geoff?
Eden Haiku: Yes, yesterday was very cold.
Geoff Baily: change?
Eden Haiku: Change, yeah!!!
Eden Haiku: Have you been trying the 9 seconds breaks lately?
Geoff Baily: ok, so all is change
Geoff Baily: rarely I must confess
Eden Haiku: I notice how my practice changes from day to day. The more focused I am on a specific task, the more I remember to do it.
Geoff Baily: but have had a couple of feelings of Being
Eden Haiku: Than I can forget for rather long stretches of time.
Geoff Baily: yes, goes in cycles
Eden Haiku: Feelings of Being Geoff, that is nice. Would you say more?
Geoff Baily: Christmas rather broke the pattern for me
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Geoff Baily: ah Being me, ......
Eden Haiku: Being you?
Geoff Baily: sometimes everything becomes very clear and brilliantly bright and sparkly
Eden Haiku: Just noticed you add a 'j'and Being becomes Bejing...
Eden Haiku: Yes?
Geoff Baily: sorry typing is difficult for some reason today
Eden Haiku: You are doing fine...
Geoff Baily: or Bojing!!!
Eden Haiku: Sorry, I didn't mean to distract you from what you were seeing about these times of clarity brilliance and sparkle can you say more?
Geoff Baily: thinking about reconciling intuitive approach and the sceptical scientific 'objective' approach
Geoff Baily: after all that is the basis of PaB
Eden Haiku: listening
Geoff Baily: thinking

--BELL--

Geoff Baily: looking at the trees around us here
Geoff Baily: at the shapes they make
Eden Haiku:Pema's, initial outline for the first PaB book is a very good example of scientific approach combined with intuitive approach  http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Books/Play_as_Being%3a_Freedom_from_Identification/Initial_Outline
Geoff Baily: looks as if there is something for me to read!!
Eden Haiku: Yes, these trees in constant bloom are wonderful!
Geoff Baily: There are many people around still from the early day of Pab
Geoff Baily: I find it difficult to keep up with the current happenings let alone learn about the past in PaB
Eden Haiku: Yes, I understand what you mean. It is better to take it  step by step, to your own rythm.
Eden Haiku: You have a scientific background Geoff, what about the place of intuition for you?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden and Geoff :)
Geoff Baily: Yes specially when one is still new to it like me
Eden Haiku: Eliza, good morning ;-)
Geoff Baily: Hi Eliza bells!!!!!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eden Haiku: You sound very nicely Eliza, what is it, a belt with bells?
Geoff Baily: or belles??
Eliza Madrigal: yes its an outfit bought for dancing. I didn't realize I was jangling until I'd been wearing it a few days ;-)
Geoff Baily: nice
Eden Haiku: Going barefeet with that kind of cold you have in Florida Eliza, what would your mother say :-)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Geoff Baily: tut tut
Eliza Madrigal: It *is* indeed quite cold... refreshing
Eliza Madrigal: but don't let me interrupt your conversation :)
Eden Haiku: Geoff and I were discussing scientific approach versus intuitive approach
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Nice
Eden Haiku: I must say the sceptical scientific approach is unbroken ground for me :-)
Geoff Baily: well for me there was a sudden change in my life
Eden Haiku: Yes?
Geoff Baily: as happens to many
Geoff Baily: started off medical/scientific then aware of intuitive side
Geoff Baily: not mutually exclusive
Eden Haiku: You were saying that you try to reconcile both now?
Geoff Baily: trying........in several senses!!!!
Eden Haiku: :-)

--BELL--

Geoff Baily: awareness of the 6th sense.......as Buddhists say
Geoff Baily: is not to be sought
Geoff Baily: it happens along the way, naturally
Geoff Baily: but it is also something we all have, but asleep
Eden Haiku: listening
Geoff Baily: If you go to any supermarket in the morning a watch the mothers and their babies
Geoff Baily: you can feel their unconditional love
Geoff Baily: its not special it all round us all the time
Eden Haiku: yes
Geoff Baily: but of course its very special for the baby and the mother!!!!!
Eliza Madrigal: So you liken awareness to unconditional love...
Eliza Madrigal: present always
Geoff Baily: unconditional love is part of awareness I feel
Eliza Madrigal: with relationships and settings and words helping us to honor... notice and value
Geoff Baily: yes always there even if not detected
Geoff Baily: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)It is a gift to seeing the world that way
Geoff Baily: you think so!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Well, gifts are not without their edges sometimes....
Geoff Baily: you describe it too
Geoff Baily: in your experience
Eliza Madrigal: hm, maybe I'd say my practice is learning to see that way in everything...
Geoff Baily: i feel?
Eden Haiku: I'm sorry, I have to rush this morning to get my Indian visa. I will read the rest of this interesting discussion when I post the log. Bye for now Geoff, bye Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eden :) Thank you!
Geoff Baily: bye Eden thanks
Eliza Madrigal: I liked the conversation we had about 'sacred ground' with her... India being such a place for her....
Geoff Baily: India is very special
Eliza Madrigal: seems similar to our conversation today.... seeing the sacred all around us
Geoff Baily: Eden is so lucky to be going to visit

After I'm gone, Eliza and Geoff's  conversation goes on about spirituality on the backburner while living a busy daily life as a Dad or a Mom with young children

Eliza Madrigal: In the conversation when I arrived, you were talking about skepticism?
Geoff Baily: in a way
Geoff Baily: talking about trying to reconcile the objective and the subjective
Eliza Madrigal: Ah :)

--BELL--

Geoff Baily: the old problem of qualia
Eliza Madrigal: So would you say you were a dispassionate intellectual before having the life change you mention?
Geoff Baily: nooo
Eliza Madrigal listens
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Geoff Baily: ahh thinking
Eliza Madrigal: I would have liked to have been... just couldn't seem to conjur it.. heh
Geoff Baily: I would say a very busy Dad trying to do many things at work and have time for the family
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I see :)
Geoff Baily: there was not time for much spirituality
Geoff Baily: then
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes I relate to that very much...
Geoff Baily: but I think the wondering was there too always
Eliza Madrigal: I *knew* I had something on the backburner though.. the whole time my children were very small and required constant attention….
Geoff Baily: yes
Eliza Madrigal: and further, the backburner turned out to be a wonderful way for the soup to cook, so to speak
Geoff Baily: i like hillwalking and got 'in touch' out there
Eliza Madrigal: Ohh, lovely
Geoff Baily: yes goood soup
Geoff Baily: soup!!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I like the phrase "in touch out there"
Geoff Baily: true
Geoff Baily: you are right, people come to spirituality in their own time
Eliza Madrigal: indeed... can't rush it. I was, 'always' spiritual, but I was very perfectionistic and limited to what I'd been exposed to...
Geoff Baily: and it often is later, with a broader perspective that one can see more clearly
Eliza Madrigal nods.. exactly
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps because not grasping...
Eliza Madrigal: as much anyway :)
Geoff Baily: can identify with the perfectionism
Geoff Baily: yes less grasping, if one is lucky to be able to drop it a bit
Eliza Madrigal: yes if one is fortunate in that way
Eliza Madrigal: You and I, sitting here, are fortunate
Geoff Baily: true very true
Geoff Baily: no excuses!!!
Eliza Madrigal: People talk about the abundant resources of the internet, for instance... but it has always been that anything we need is 'everywhere'... does no good at all if we don't see/hear, etc ?
Geoff Baily: if we don't 'progress', whatever that means......
Eliza Madrigal: So all we can do is to be attentive to what we notice... 9 sec approaching for instance :)
Geoff Baily: yes

 --BELL--

The conversation moves toward differences and unconditional love as a way to accept them: 'the more generous, the more pleasure-full'!

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Geoff Baily: thinking of the religious persecution
Geoff Baily: there was and still is in many places
Eliza Madrigal nods
Geoff Baily: a few hundred years ago this would not have been possible
Eliza Madrigal: in a way, all persecution is religious
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, the way we from so many faiths and backgrounds can talk about the sacred?
Eliza Madrigal: Share together?
Geoff Baily: its not just the internet, its the climate of the society
Geoff Baily: no not all bigotry is religious
Eliza Madrigal: well... it is disallowing of different ways of approach
Eliza Madrigal: this shows up in many places
Geoff Baily: any difference can be a source of friction
Geoff Baily: if you divide a group of children by numbers, to the odds and the evens at random
Geoff Baily: in a few minutes it is the odds against the evens
Eliza Madrigal: Perhaps what it takes is humility. I've been absolutely convinced of various 'views' at certain points of my life... I would have gone down with ships to defend them... only to be turned completely upside down. :) That happens a few times you start to listen/pay attention to others!
Geoff Baily: just that small difference suffices
Eliza Madrigal: And what you're saying about groups and children is quite accurate... yes...
Geoff Baily: yes other's, we can learn from
Geoff Baily: if we listen
Eliza Madrigal: Once my son moved from one class to another and it took a few years before some of those kids that had been his friends didn't behave oddly... in teams, so to speak
Geoff Baily: if we hear
Geoff Baily: so true
Eliza Madrigal: a little thing... moving to the room next door
Geoff Baily: most often neighbours have the worst arguments
Geoff Baily: about stupid little things
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I've been through that :)
Geoff Baily: that one thought could have been talked through
Geoff Baily: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Geoff Baily: so the tolerance of our cultures is so important
Eliza Madrigal: absolutely
Eliza Madrigal: and listening with a sense of trust, from the get go....
Geoff Baily: and who knows how long it will last
Eliza Madrigal: maybe another way of starting at the end?? :))
Eliza Madrigal: Beginning with the unconditional love that is always available... Hm….
Eliza Madrigal: A skill worth cultivating :)
Geoff Baily: we all need it i think
Eliza Madrigal: Indeed
Geoff Baily: :)
Geoff Baily: but its there all the time
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Geoff Baily: waiting
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, like you talked about dormancy at the beginning I think....
Geoff Baily: you have talked about your Christian
Geoff Baily: faith Eliza you had to start with?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Well, its funny. I was raised in Christianity, but I didn't have 'faith' until late teens... As a child Jesus was my Meme (my great-grandmother)... whatever/whoever she loved, I loved....
Geoff Baily: ;)
Geoff Baily: If you peel back the layers and listen to the basic message of Jesus
Eliza Madrigal: so it wasn't really 'faith' in that sense. I went through some things and then 'became' Christian later...
Geoff Baily: it is that there is unconditional love there for us all
Eliza Madrigal: I thought i had to, in order to yes... experience what Jesus was saying....
Eliza Madrigal: Love stronger than death :)
Geoff Baily: all the time for us to access if we chose
Geoff Baily: yes ;)
Eliza Madrigal: It was a relief when Jesus let me go... pushed me out of the nest... hehehe
Geoff Baily: in a way comes full circle to Buddhism
Eliza Madrigal: People won't understand that maybe... yes
Geoff Baily: :)
Geoff Baily: I know......difficult to digest
Geoff Baily: because religion has been turned into Business
Eliza Madrigal: There are biblical lines which talk about 'when that which is perfect is come everything else falls away'... so love without distinctions ... unconditional... lightens every way of seeing perhaps
Geoff Baily: so often
Eliza Madrigal: and yes, I agree. If I want to sell you something I'm not listening
Geoff Baily: yes I think so Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I'm only listening to see if there is something I can use to bring you about
Eliza Madrigal: its a different listening :)
Geoff Baily: for me
Geoff Baily: important to give away ones achievements to others
Geoff Baily: its not for personal benefit or ego boosting
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Eliza Madrigal: generosity
Geoff Baily: that we do what we do here
Eliza Madrigal: it expands us
Geoff Baily: its for others
Eliza Madrigal: Don't you think it is the same... in a way....
Geoff Baily: listening
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, just erased my line... strange to articulate...
Geoff Baily: me too;)
Eliza Madrigal: I really do think it is the same though.... when I give to my children, I am receiving....
Geoff Baily: Eliza that is true
Eliza Madrigal: the more generous, the more pleasure-full
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, lovely talking to you today Geoff
Geoff Baily: yes thanks nice to talk
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
Geoff Baily: bye Eliza