2010.01.21 13:00 - Happy place

The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

Lia Rikugun: hello
Bertram Jacobus: hey lia ! ... :-)
Magic Leimes: Hi Lia
Bertram Jacobus: hey storm ... :-)
Magic Leimes: Hi Storm
Lia Rikugun: hello magic
Lia Rikugun: hi storm
Storm Nordwind: Greetings all!
Lia Rikugun: how are you all?
Storm Nordwind: happy :) You?
Lia Rikugun: hehe happy too :)
Pema Pera: hi Bert, Magic, LIa, Storm!
Magic Leimes: hey pema
Bertram Jacobus: hey pema ... :-)
Lia Rikugun: hello pema !

Bertram Jacobus: i´m ... no idea - mostly so much ... ;-)
Pema Pera: wait till you go to Malta, Bert :-)
Lia Rikugun: no idea.. :) ok
Lia Rikugun: I am curiosu to see too
Bertram Jacobus: and then, pema ? you make me even more curious ! ... :-))
Pema Pera: I'm curious on many levels, Lia!
Pema Pera: Malta, small as it is, has an amazing history
Lia Rikugun: how so?
Pema Pera: stretching back for many thousands of years
Lia Rikugun: yes i read about the hypogeum
Lia Rikugun: which is supposed to be very old
Pema Pera: it was the center of the "middle sea" of that part of the world
Lia Rikugun: and mysterious things have happened there!
Lia Rikugun: oh
Bertram Jacobus: mysterious things ?
Lia Rikugun: a whole class dissapeared there
Lia Rikugun: so we have to stick together
Pema Pera smiles at the way Lia is preparing for our disappearance . . . .
Bertram Jacobus: ehm - do we believe that ? with the class ? ... ;-)
Lia Rikugun: and apperently a researcher saw beings froma different realm
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: or something like that
Pema Pera: only those who believe, Bert, will disappear, so probably you will be safe!
Bertram Jacobus: oh. but may be the disappering is nice ? ;-)
Lia Rikugun: i want to disappear and come back
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: and tell you all abou tit
Pema Pera: then you'd better believe :-)
Lia Rikugun: i am very excited
Bertram Jacobus: lol

Pema Pera: Lia did tell us about her little daydream travels already in California
Pema Pera: her disappearing and appearing!
Pema Pera: if we ask het kindly, she may do so again :)
Lia Rikugun: me disappearing?
Lia Rikugun: did I?
Pema Pera: sure, into your realm of "kleine Reise"
Pema Pera: and then returning!
Lia Rikugun: i was always sitting on the sofa no?
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: hehe
Storm Nordwind: yes you were
Pema Pera: ah, only when we looked!
Lia Rikugun: HAHA
Pema Pera: what do we know . . . .
Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
Storm Nordwind: and also on the floor, and on the ceiling...
Lia Rikugun: yes actually i may have some questions
Lia Rikugun: hello bleu
Magic Leimes: Hello bleu
Pema Pera: may?
Pema Pera: are you questioning the possibility of having a question, Lia?
Lia Rikugun: well i have, but may i ask them
Pema Pera: well, yes :-)
Bertram Jacobus: hi bleu ... :-)
Storm Nordwind throws a cushion at Pema
Lia Rikugun: :)
Pema Pera: (but don't read the earlier chat logs for today, please)

Lia Rikugun: well I told pema already a little bit about it
Pema Pera: ((or was that in the Pub that we talked about that, Storm?))
Lia Rikugun: so what I do sometimes is I relax close my eyes and try to go to this happy place
Pema Pera: (that's the disappearing act of Lia, yes)
Lia Rikugun: wherethere is a field and a little house
Lia Rikugun: and I can walk around
Lia Rikugun: and experience things
Lia Rikugun: sometimes I meet people
Lia Rikugun: somnetimes we talk
Lia Rikugun: so a few weeks ago
Lia Rikugun: i went to my happy place
Lia Rikugun: (this is how i call it)
Lia Rikugun: and i stood on the field
Lia Rikugun: an something came from behind and bite me
Lia Rikugun: and didnt stop
Lia Rikugun: to attack me
Lia Rikugun: so I kicked it and pushed it far awy
Lia Rikugun: it was flying into the air
Lia Rikugun: then i realized maybe i did something wrong
Lia Rikugun: and i should have reacted more friendly and nicer
Lia Rikugun: so I flew to rescue it and we flew back together to the field
Bertram Jacobus: hello eliza ! ... :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
Magic Leimes: Hi Eliza
Bleu Oleander: hi eliza
Lia Rikugun: this changed the intention of tis something whoch was biting me before
Lia Rikugun: we started playing together
Lia Rikugun: hello eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone! :) (apologies, brb)
Lia Rikugun: and chasing each other
Lia Rikugun: jumping around
Lia Rikugun: this being which looed scary turned into some kind of teddy bear
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: so i wasnnt scared anymore
Lia Rikugun: at some point i became tired and the teddy bear said, comeI want to show you something
Lia Rikugun: he carried me away
Lia Rikugun: into a white fog
Lia Rikugun: i asked where are you taking me
Lia Rikugun: dont be scared everybody is here
Lia Rikugun: (i couldnt see anybody)
--BELL--
Lia Rikugun: and the complete darkness
Lia Rikugun: couldnt see anything anymore
Lia Rikugun: but i knew the teddy bear was stil there
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: sorry i am talking and talking
Bertram Jacobus: that´s great - ty !

Lia Rikugun: so my questions: what do you think this means?
Pema Pera: please continue Lia!
Lia Rikugun: and why is there someone who bites me at first?
Lia Rikugun: this happened to me several times
Bleu Oleander: i missed the beginning of this, was this a dream?
Lia Rikugun: that there is someone or something which is first aggressive or who wants something bad in a way
Pema Pera: (I already emailed with Lia about this, so I'll keep quiet for now)
Lia Rikugun: but then turns out to be good if I accept it and embrace him and am friendly
Lia Rikugun: a kind of daydream
Lia Rikugun: where I actively go to a place called happy place
Lia Rikugun: and I walk around
Lia Rikugun: ad see what haoppens
Storm Nordwind: I would seem to me to be a lesson. Your happy place is not your field or your house. It is inside you. You can stay happy there, inside, no matter what happens in the outside world. The world of the happy place is still an outside world, like the inner layers of an onion.
Lia Rikugun: ok
Lia Rikugun: and what about the white fog or the darkness?
Lia Rikugun: somethings always lead me there
Bleu Oleander: various layers of your virtual self, maybe?
Storm Nordwind: There is the fear that when you let go of the experience of the outside world, even the inner outside world, that you will have nothing left - it will be a void. But it is not so. The mist and darkness shows your fear, but the source of happiness that is within will not let you down
Lia Rikugun: hm i am not sure if i understand
Lia Rikugun: i am never really scared
Lia Rikugun: whatever happens
Lia Rikugun: in this happy place at least
Storm Nordwind: In which case it sounds like a fun place to explore. You will be safe within yourself, no matter what happens, as things that you see come and go
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: so pema is always suggesting to continue
Lia Rikugun: these explorations
Storm Nordwind: Yes, I support that :)

Storm Nordwind: But in a way, the more you explore and go to different places...
Lia Rikugun: hehe good
Storm Nordwind: the more you will be staying in one place within yourself...
Storm Nordwind: experiencing these things as they pass by
Lia Rikugun: hm
Storm Nordwind: All the experiences we ever have are inside us, not outside us
Lia Rikugun: yes
Storm Nordwind: And that inside never goes away, and never moves.
Storm Nordwind: It is always there
Storm Nordwind: It can always be relied on
Storm Nordwind: It is a secure place from which you can view things arise and vanish
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting when you're surprised by 'your own' seemingly inner projections .. seems am enjoyable practice
Bertram Jacobus: heyy mick ! ... :-)

Pema Pera: and that "inside" also contains all the "outside" we ever experience, it goes both directions
Pema Pera: hi Mick!
Storm Nordwind: Yes indeed Pema
Lia Rikugun: hello mick
Mickorod Renard: Hi Everyone
Magic Leimes: Hi mick
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)
Storm Nordwind waves
Pema Pera: it is, Eliza; Maxine reported something similar during our first retreat, and so did I; I think many of us may have experimented with something similar
Bleu Oleander: say more Pema about going both ways
Eliza Madrigal nods.. yes I relate very much too
Pema Pera: Storm described the unity of subject/object as starting from the inside
Pema Pera: but you can also start from the outside
Pema Pera: and say the same thing
Pema Pera: that the outside is all you too
Pema Pera: all mind, ect -- but we have to be careful what notion of "mind" we use then
Pema Pera: not mind as in body-mind duality
Pema Pera: but beyond that split
--BELL--

Pema Pera: btw, I mentioned to Lia in email a few days ago: foggy white and dark black are colorless; perhaps you are entering realms that go beyond our normal logic and our normal way of thinking, as symbolically they then lack our normal forms and colors (interestingly, in the Chinese/Japanese versions of the heart sutra, "form is emptiness, emptiness is form" the literal characters used can also be read as "color is emptiness, emptiness is color")
Storm Nordwind: What feels right to you Lia? There are so many possible ways of looking at this, it's important if you find one that resonates and you say "Aha!" to. :)
Lia Rikugun: i am not sure

Lia Rikugun: sometimes i think this is all imagination due to the fact that I read the TSK book
Lia Rikugun: or other books about zen buddhism
Lia Rikugun: and then I am wondering if my unconscious gives me these images
Lia Rikugun: and it has nothing to mean
Lia Rikugun: but on the other hand
Lia Rikugun: sometimes there are these feelings of absolute truth
Lia Rikugun: which i cannot explain
Lia Rikugun: or complete love
Mickorod Renard: I have wondered this too,,maybe in a similar way. It reminds me of that saying ' we are what we eat'
Lia Rikugun: could be imaginated as well
Lia Rikugun: but the feeling is true
Lia Rikugun: the experience is true in a way
Lia Rikugun: what is true and what is false
Lia Rikugun: so what i know is I experienced it
Pema Pera: that's the important part, Lia, to trust your experience as valuable!
Storm Nordwind agrees
Lia Rikugun: but
Storm Nordwind: Even your wondering whether or not it's imagination is valuable. You can have confidence in the path!
Pema Pera: it is no doubt partly imagination and partly more than that . . . but it may not be easy to draw any line, nor is that the most important part
Lia Rikugun: well you can always say somethings againt or for
Lia Rikugun: there is no proof or anything
Bertram Jacobus: the last days, again and again i remember a quite strange phenonemon : playing billard, there is the fact, that sometimes i KNOW in advance that a shot will be successful - and that always is true (!) ...
Pema Pera: your wading in tidal waters, between this realm and something wider/other, like in between sleeping and waking -- that in itself is important, to widen your experience that way
Lia Rikugun: for me its good to keep a cool head in a way and an open heart

Mickorod Renard: Pema, can you ellaborate more on the' nor is that the most imoportant part'?
Pema Pera: when exploring anything, premature judgment limits innecesarily
Pema Pera: better to keep an open mind
Pema Pera: in astronomy sometimes the greatest discoveries are made by observers who are not so strong in theory
Pema Pera: so they don't ask themselves whether what they see can be true; they just report it, even if it goes against any theory currently considered true :)
Mickorod Renard: I feel there is a risk of becoming overwhelmed with idea's and thoughts
Pema Pera: and they are more likely to make new discoveries
Pema Pera: there is a risk to anything, for sure, but with Lia being happy and not scared and able to transmute aggression into play, I'm not worried :)
Lia Rikugun: :) yeay
Mickorod Renard: sometimes I feel there is a need for some concrete foundation to provide some sanity
Lia Rikugun: so what does this aggression mean?
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if practicing this way has changed your night time dream life, Lia?
Eliza Madrigal: (ah sorry, delayed text)
Lia Rikugun: actually i started writing down my dreams again a week ago or so
Lia Rikugun: but i have completre different images
Lia Rikugun: nothing to do with my happy place
Lia Rikugun: but when i go to my happy place i can remember my night dreams better :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: What Pema said before about tidal waters reminds me of a passage from a Douglas Adams book: "A beach house," he said, "doesn't even have to be on the beach. Though the best ones are. We all like to congregate," he went on, "at boundary conditions. Where land meets water. Where earth meets air. Where body meets mind. Where space meets time. We like to be on one side, and look at the other."
Pema Pera: you're getting practice in opening doors, yes, Lia
Pema Pera: nice quote, Storm!

Bleu Oleander: what can be said about RL aggression vs happy place aggression and dealing with it?
Storm Nordwind: I would deal with them the same way. How about you Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: turning to play?
Mickorod Renard: most of my dreams tend to relate to sorting out puzzles that perhaps have formed during the intervening day or week..opening up a new line of enquirely, or perhaps practice is likely to change dream patterns, i would think
Storm Nordwind: No. Being secure in what was real.
Bleu Oleander: say more
--BELL--
Pema Pera: and not trying to fight aggression, but respond appropriately, depending on the situation; Lia did so, in "taming" the aggression, after first showing she wasn't phazed by it.
Storm Nordwind: /It depends what you mean by 'dealing with it' Bleu. I might deal with it internally quite consistently. The demands of the outer world may vary according to circumstance. It's a very wide subject. It depends on for whose benefit you looking too.
Pema Pera nods
Bleu Oleander: true
Mickorod Renard: might I ask the nature of the aggression?,,RL or Dream only?
Mickorod Renard: I dropped in late
Bertram Jacobus: hy gaya ! ... :-9
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Gaya
Lia Rikugun: I talked a bout an expeirence i had during some kind of daydream with aggression
Mickorod Renard: I see..ty
Gaya Ethaniel sneaks in ... dropping by :)
Lia Rikugun: but i think now we try to see differences betwween RL aggression and dream aggression
Lia Rikugun: hello gaya
Pema Pera: Lia, just as a suggestion, perhaps you could gently try to go on your little sally (kleine Reise) some time without closing your eyes and without trying to start at your happy place. Even sitting in a crowded place, just looking ahead or around in a relaxed way, you might be able to access a somewhat similar kind of awareness -- we can discuss this later in more detail
Pema Pera: hi Gaya!!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
Lia Rikugun: i will try
Pema Pera: Hi Vertigo!
Lia Rikugun: but wondering if I can be that relaxed
Mickorod Renard: Hi Vertigo
Lia Rikugun: hello vertigo
Pema Pera: Hail to all Ethaniels!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bertram Jacobus: hi vertigo ... :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste
Eliza Madrigal: maybe dreaming can be like a camera you can use in many settings... daytime/nightime , under water/above... a real tool of exploration
Vertigo Ethaniel: good to see you all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Vertigo :)
Storm Nordwind: The Ethaniel family :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera nods to Eliza
Gaya Ethaniel hopes she didn't interrupt the flow ...

Mickorod Renard: I suffer with some aggression in day dream state,,I refuse to lay in during the mornings to avoid it,,it may be suggested I have some pts and sleep deprivation for me is not wise
Mickorod Renard: its a catch situation for me
Gaya Ethaniel: What is a 'catch situation' Mick?
Mickorod Renard: well,,I need more sleep,,but lucid sleep I avoid cos i dont want the aggressive thoughts
Storm Nordwind: Not Sleeping makes it worse but sleeping brings the opportunity for the problem - Catch 22
Mickorod Renard: yes
Bertram Jacobus: hy ara ! ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Maybe getting into a relaxed place for a few days in a row will help, Mick....
Storm Nordwind waves
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
Pema Pera: hi Arabella!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello ara :)
Eliza Madrigal: soften things :)
Mickorod Renard: like a retreat?
Pema Pera: :)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Pema Pera: or a treat!
Mickorod Renard: he he
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Lia Rikugun: :)
Eliza Madrigal grins.. yes like that
Storm Nordwind: Better than alcoholic oblivion, anyway, the way sought by some
Vertigo Ethaniel: been there
Vertigo Ethaniel: many a time
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: thanks, Lia, for a wonderful exchange about your experiences!
Mickorod Renard: yes, sorry I was late
Pema Pera: I'll have to leave now, looking forward to seeing you soon again, SL or RL, whichever comes first!
Lia Rikugun: :) I hope I didnt take too much time to tell you all this
Pema Pera: not at all!
Pema Pera: that's why we are here
Lia Rikugun: bye pema
Eliza Madrigal: yes, thanks very much Lia :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I will catch up by reading the log, thanks Lia :)
Pema Pera: to exchange such experiences and take it fro there
Mickorod Renard: bye Pema
arabella Ella: bye Pema sorry to have missed much of this
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Pema :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: catch ya later pema
Pema Pera: bye for now!
Bleu Oleander: bye Pema
Storm Nordwind waves
Mickorod Renard: bye
Gaya Ethaniel: I should get back to RL too, a long day. Have a good day everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal waves Bye Pema, Gaya :)
Mickorod Renard: bye Gaya
Vertigo Ethaniel waves
Lia Rikugun: bye
arabella Ella: bye Gaya
Bleu Oleander: thanks Lia for starting a good discussion, bye for now
Lia Rikugun: bye bleu
Mickorod Renard: bye Blue
Bleu Oleander: bye all
arabella Ella: bye bleu
Bertram Jacobus: ty lia - i appreciate your "report" ...
Storm Nordwind: Bye Bleu
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: more reports during malta retreat ;)
--BELL--
Lia Rikugun: from everybody
arabella Ella: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
arabella Ella: Hiya Yaku!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: Then to share after too, Lia and all :)
Lia Rikugun: hello yaku
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :)
Bertram Jacobus: hello yaku ! ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal has to get going for a bit, lovely to see you all...
Lia Rikugun: i think i will leave too, time for bed for me :)
arabella Ella: bye Eliza Lia
Storm Nordwind: What no tea Yaku?? ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, bye you both
Lia Rikugun: good night and byebye
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Lia, everyone :)
Lia Rikugun: thank you for the nice discussion!
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i didn´t deselect the earl grey, strange
Storm Nordwind: Bye Lia
Mickorod Renard: bye Lia
Storm Nordwind: I must go and post the chat log for the previous session. Please excuse me!
arabella Ella: bye Storm
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
Mickorod Renard: bye Storm
Mickorod Renard: off to the pub?
Storm Nordwind: `Yes!
Mickorod Renard: he he
Vertigo Ethaniel: im kinda afk :) sorry
Mickorod Renard: shall we go to the pub?
arabella Ella: i dont think anyone is there
arabella Ella: no avis appear on my mini map
Mickorod Renard: will be if we go
Bertram Jacobus: i think, i´ll leave ... no pub anymore for me this evening - sry ... buit ty ! :-)
Mickorod Renard: grin,,ok Bert
Mickorod Renard: I think I shud do some exploring anyway
Bertram Jacobus: okay - have a nice evening all please ! :-)
arabella Ella: guten nacht Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: exploring ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: dankeschön ara la bella ! ... ;-)
arabella Ella: sie sind so nett Bert :)
Mickorod Renard: yea,,nite nite Bert,,go well
Bertram Jacobus: thxx :-))
arabella Ella: (or should I say du bist ...)
Bertram Jacobus: du bist bitte ! :-)
Bertram Jacobus: danke :-)
arabella Ella: thanks!
arabella Ella: thanks!
Bertram Jacobus: :-))
Magic Leimes: bye everyone,take care,xx
Mickorod Renard: bye magic
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye magic
Vertigo Ethaniel: must go :) see ya everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: nobody was going to the pub ? :D
Mickorod Renard: bye vertigo
arabella Ella: whooosh Magic is gone
arabella Ella: I am too tired for the pub tonight Yaku
Mickorod Renard: me too,,sorry
Yakuzza Lethecus: np, good night you both
Mickorod Renard: nite nite Yaku
arabella Ella: nite Yaku I must go now