2010.01.15 13:00 - retreat soon

The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

Wol Euler: friday 15 january, 1pm
Yakuzza Lethecus: nabend wol
Liza Deischer: hi wol, Yaku
Wol Euler: hello yaku, liza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey liza, welcome to the guardian group
Liza Deischer: thanks Yaku
Wol Euler: oh, yes, right! congratulations and welcome
Liza Deischer: thanks Wol
Liza Deischer: happ to be here
Liza Deischer: happy
Liza Deischer: Yaku, that's a nice skill
Liza Deischer: hoovering over your pillow
Yakuzza Lethecus: i dunno why that happens sometimes
Liza Deischer: `i don't know if you are completely rezzed Wol
Liza Deischer: but you look quit different
Liza Deischer: quite
Wol Euler grins. A brand new outfit, lots of glowy prims
Wol Euler: I'll rebake
Liza Deischer: rabake?
Liza Deischer: rebake
Wol Euler: mmm, causes my viewer software to re-generate my appearance and upload it to the servers, for you to see
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello atzlan
Aztlan Foss: hi everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: have you been here before ?
Wol Euler: hello aztlan
Aztlan Foss: yeah a few times
Aztlan Foss: hi wol
Wol Euler: hello agatha
Liza Deischer: hi Aztlan
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Wol :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello everybody
Yakuzza Lethecus: so you know that everything will be logged and about the practice
Liza Deischer: okay
Wol Euler: wow, don't you look great! :)
Aztlan Foss: yup
Yakuzza Lethecus: great, welcome around here :)
Agatha Macbeth: You look strange Yaku
Liza Deischer: hi Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Ah that's better
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Liza
Wol Euler: I forget, who has friday 1pm now?
Agatha Macbeth: Isn't it you Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Wol Euler: aha!
Agatha Macbeth: Thought so :)
Wol Euler: hello zen
Agatha Macbeth: You had just taken over this slot from Lia first time i came...
Liza Deischer: hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi all :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello zen
Wol Euler wonders what we are all doing
Agatha Macbeth: Not a lot......
Zen Arado: wondering what we are all doing
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler is listening to old King Crimson and reading the PaB wiki
Yakuzza Lethecus: that´s true i often have the same question
Aztlan Foss: hehehe
Wol Euler: and drinking cold tea
Zen Arado: wow busy life Wol
Agatha Macbeth: How's Fripp these days, still married to Toyah?
Aztlan Foss: I'm breathing very slowly. I think I'm just relaxed
Wol Euler: apparently so :)
Yakuzza Lethecus is googling king crimson
Wol Euler: I read his blog for a while but kinda lost interest
Agatha Macbeth: Luck bugger :)
--BELL--
Wol Euler: yeah, really :)
Agatha Macbeth: Lucky
Zen Arado: never heard of him :)
Agatha Macbeth: I really liked Toyah back in the day
Wol Euler: he calls her "the minx" :)))
Liza Deischer: Why do we try to do smething if nothing is going on?
Agatha Macbeth: Loved the way she didn't take any crap from anyone
Zen Arado: we feel uncomfortable :)
Agatha Macbeth: Is it your cushion ZEn?
Liza Deischer: but that can be an interesting thing
Liza Deischer: to see why it makes you uncomfortabe
Zen Arado: I know Liza :)
Agatha Macbeth: (Damn keyboard)
Zen Arado: :)
Liza Deischer: I know you know Zen
Liza Deischer: but we don't seem to do it
Zen Arado: I know
Agatha Macbeth: Hello?
Liza Deischer: neither am I by the way
Liza Deischer: :-)
Agatha Macbeth: coughs
Zen Arado: we could sit and meditate if we wantes to
Agatha Macbeth: I thought we were
Wol Euler: but that would be doing something ...
Wol Euler: really truly doing **nothing** must be extremely difficult!
Zen Arado: but we don't know what we are 'supposed to be doing ?
Liza Deischer: To me when there is nothing going on, I mean it seems to be so
Zen Arado: except being aware every 15 mins
Zen Arado: but there is always a lot going on anyway
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Agatha Macbeth: What about the rest of the time Zen?
Liza Deischer: but you can use it in any way like it
Liza Deischer: you like it
Zen Arado: why do the rest of you come here?
Zen Arado: I like to talk I admit
Wol Euler: when I say I am "doing nothing", I usually mean that I am spending my time having frivolous fun when there are other "serious" things that I chose not to do
Agatha Macbeth: The people here are the most interesting I have met in SL, that's why I come
Liza Deischer: I understand :-)
Zen Arado: non attaining they say in zen
Zen Arado: yes me too Aga
Liza Deischer: I think that is mostly the point
Liza Deischer: when we feel uncomfortable in any way
Agatha Macbeth: And nobody's trying to get in yer pants every 5 mins....
Zen Arado: attaining non -attaining
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Zen Arado: says nothiing :)
Zen Arado: but interesting thoughts :)
Zen Arado: sorry
Wol Euler: for me, this is sometimes a place to recharge, it's a moment of encouragement and refreshment in the day (evening)
Agatha Macbeth: Mmmm
Liza Deischer: to me it is a way to share thoughts on topics we have in common
Zen Arado: I find it a bit tiring if I come too often
Aztlan Foss: I like to be where people are sharing thoughts
Aztlan Foss: it kinda puts my mind at ease
Zen Arado: I found a website
Zen Arado: as usual :)
Wol Euler nods.People do "burn-out" here, Zen, so a certain amount of caution and self-observation is advised.
Wol Euler nods at Liza. That ties in to what we were talking about :)
Agatha Macbeth: Go for it Zen :)
Aztlan Foss: hehehe this place needs warning lables now?
Zen Arado: yes - that's why I took a rest for a few days Wol
Wol Euler: like life itself, Aztlan.
Liza Deischer: yes
Wol Euler: "Objets in the mirror ..."
Zen Arado: I am getting on a bit you know :)
Wol Euler smiles
Zen Arado: anyway - website reminds me of philosophy of this place
Zen Arado: http://greatfreedom.org/
Wol Euler: do tell :)
Wol Euler: it starts well :))
Zen Arado: yes _free :)
Wol Euler: hzeheheheh
Agatha Macbeth: Always a good start :)
Zen Arado: love that word :)
Wol Euler: I meant the teaser, actually. "Short moments of awareness,repeated many times,become automatic!" (for the recorder)
Wol Euler: that's what we are all about
Zen Arado: ok that too
Agatha Macbeth: They do?
Wol Euler: sure :)
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Wol Euler: or rather, as Pema would say: Try it and see
Zen Arado: yes gets away from the rigidity of the 15 mins thing
Wol Euler: YMMV
Zen Arado: I might give this a try for a while
--BELL--
Zen Arado: meditation I find is not as effective for me now
Wol Euler: wb liza
Zen Arado: wb Liza
Zen Arado: I think too much
Wol Euler: do you know why, zen?
Liza Deischer: used the wrong button :-)
Wol Euler: ah
Agatha Macbeth: 'think' or 'drink' Zen? :)
Zen Arado: it has just become a habit
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler nods
Zen Arado: my egoic has hijacked the time
Agatha Macbeth: (With me it's the latter)
Zen Arado: mind
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ara
arabella Ella: Hiya!
Liza Deischer: hi Ara
Wol Euler: hello ara
Zen Arado: this approach might work better
Zen Arado: hi Ara :)
Liza Deischer: I missed something, but which approach Zen?
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Ara
Zen Arado: talking about website http://greatfreedom.org/
Zen Arado: but trick is to keep remembering to come back to awareness I think
Zen Arado: until it is habitual
Liza Deischer: you mean short moments of wareness
Zen Arado: yes
Liza Deischer: yes it is easy to go badk to the old habitual daily things
Zen Arado: but I only found this 2 days ago so haven't really tried it much yet
Liza Deischer: back
Zen Arado: I find daily irritations a good trigger
Aztlan Foss: I like to go in to moments of awareness when I'm driving
Liza Deischer: :-)
Agatha Macbeth: It does helpn Aztlan :)
Aztlan Foss: one day I was on one of those "auto pilot" moments coming home from school and then I realized "I'm in auto mode"
Agatha Macbeth: -n
Wol Euler nods
Aztlan Foss: yeah makes the roads safer :-P
Aztlan Foss: back then I had a little 1989 CRX so it was tiny and it felt like a go-cart
Agatha Macbeth: Hee hee
Zen Arado: so maybe we are on 'autopilot' in the rest of life too
Agatha Macbeth: Probably looked like one too :)
Wol Euler: the risk is there, zen
Wol Euler: looking back, I know that there were weeks or months or years when I was
Aztlan Foss: <(*_*)> Fastttttttt!... <(*_*)>
Aztlan Foss: so snapping out of the autopilot mode it made it extremely fun. I was on the freeway, the day was nice, my little car was going really and I was driving it.
Zen Arado: unconscious as Eckhart Tolle says
Agatha Macbeth: Va va voom?
Aztlan Foss: I would have LOVED that when I was a kid so why not even more then?
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: right!
Wol Euler: exactly
Wol Euler: why do we lose that joy?
Agatha Macbeth: We grow up :(
Wol Euler: that
Agatha Macbeth: (some do)
Aztlan Foss: we're told kids play and grownups work and that growing up means not playing.
Wol Euler: bah
Agatha Macbeth: Or being?
Zen Arado: rememners the thril of driving a new car for the first time
Wol Euler: David Hockney said "all my good painting started from me wanting to play with colours for a while"
Aztlan Foss: I remember when I was in highschool my dad was like "when I was your age we didn't have video games" so I was like "well you have them now, come play!"
Agatha Macbeth: I liked his 'baked beans' sculpture
Zen Arado: did you see his Iphone paintings?
Wol Euler: yes! wonderful stuff :) so lively
Agatha Macbeth: Nope, missed those
Zen Arado: think we talked about this before?
Wol Euler: and he's in his mid-seventies, so no excuses from you Mr. Arado.
Agatha Macbeth: probably
Liza Deischer: we lose our curiosity somehow
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Zen Arado: hehe
Liza Deischer: and call that taking responsibility
Wol Euler: yep
Liza Deischer: or growing up
Zen Arado: I still paint abstracts
Zen Arado: was painting today :)
Agatha Macbeth: The shed?
Zen Arado: no - too cold
Agatha Macbeth: Right!
Zen Arado: I live in an apartment anyway
Wol Euler: heh, he caught you there aggers.
Agatha Macbeth: (Couldn be a small shed)
Agatha Macbeth: He did?
Zen Arado: did I ?
Zen Arado: :)
Liza Deischer: who did what?
Agatha Macbeth: Ooops
Wol Euler: hehehehehehheh
Wol Euler: ah, another silly session
Agatha Macbeth: onigokko
Zen Arado: lost me :)
Wol Euler: that means it's time for ...
Wol Euler: yes!
Aztlan Foss: lol
Agatha Macbeth: Beat you to it! :)
Agatha Macbeth: stop
Zen Arado: thought I took that off :)
Liza Deischer: I've got ist somewhere
Aztlan Foss: thanks
Agatha Macbeth: You put it back on whilst painting :)
Zen Arado: Oh I see - I think
Wol Euler: yw, just wear it. harmless, invisible ...
Wol Euler: until someone says the magic word
--BELL--
Wol Euler: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23176 <--- Hockney iPhone paintings
Agatha Macbeth: Never knew you could draw with an Iphone
Liza Deischer: what are most of you doing during the 90 sec.?
Wol Euler: I was reading that article actually
Agatha Macbeth: Following URLs?
arabella Ella: having a look at the web site with hockney's painings in this case
Wol Euler: but I do often close my eyes and count my breaths
Wol Euler: trying to clear my mind
Agatha Macbeth: If it's zero, yiou have problems :)
Zen Arado: looking at paintings
Agatha Macbeth: (Oh this damn KB)
Aztlan Foss: paintings :-D
Wol Euler: liza?
Zen Arado: have to get an iphone
Liza Deischer: this question came up
Wol Euler: or an iPod Touch, can run the same apps but has no monthly costs
Zen Arado: yes I have one of those
Liza Deischer: trying to concentrate on what we were talking about
Agatha Macbeth: What were we talking about?
Liza Deischer: I look at the pictures later :-)
Zen Arado: 'brushes' is the app
Zen Arado: must download it
Agatha Macbeth: I remember Photogenics on the Amiga
Agatha Macbeth: Those were the days
Wol Euler: :)
Zen Arado: good paint prog on Windows 7
Agatha Macbeth: (oh Windows.......:()
Wol Euler: remember the little key in the back of hte keyboard, you had to wind it up every morning
Zen Arado: prefer real paint though
Agatha Macbeth: My A4000 didn't have one of those :)
Zen Arado: I used to have a Sinclair spectrum
Agatha Macbeth: Wooohoooooooo!
Zen Arado: 28 K ram :)
arabella Ella: :)
Agatha Macbeth: With 16K of RAM?
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Aztlan Foss: wow must have cost you a fortune! :-P
Agatha Macbeth: And 1 bit sound
Zen Arado: can't remember
Zen Arado: think they pretty cheap though
Zen Arado: didn't have any sound I think :)
Agatha Macbeth: If you picked them up and turned them upside down all the keys fell off
Zen Arado: except tiny beeps
Zen Arado: :)
arabella Ella: and the clatter of the old dot matrix printers
Agatha Macbeth: Ah good old Clive
Agatha Macbeth: Oh YES Ara
Agatha Macbeth: That was when they worked
arabella Ella: I had an old Amstrad
Agatha Macbeth: Remember them well
Zen Arado: you're fired Ara :)
arabella Ella: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Built in cassette player
arabella Ella: i had to boot up the HD with a disk each time
Agatha Macbeth: Programs on cassetees- I ask you
Agatha Macbeth: or cassettes even
arabella Ella: yes disks looked like casettes
Zen Arado: I even had a word processor on my Spectrum
Agatha Macbeth: Tasword?
arabella Ella: cool
Zen Arado: sounds like it
Zen Arado: :)
Agatha Macbeth: I remember it!
Zen Arado: it worked too
Agatha Macbeth: Anybody remember the C5?
Wol Euler: the tricycle?
Zen Arado: only saw on TV
Agatha Macbeth: Yep
Agatha Macbeth: Another of Clive's brainchildren
Wol Euler: never actually saw one, though I lived in Camden Town at the time
Agatha Macbeth: You wouldn't see one there :)
arabella Ella: could you describe it Agatha?
Agatha Macbeth: Well....
Agatha Macbeth: It was a sort of coverd go-kart
Wol Euler: http://images.google.de/images?q=sin...ed=0CCAQsAQwAw
Agatha Macbeth: is the only way I can describe it
Zen Arado: white fibre galss?
Zen Arado: glass
arabella Ella: ah yes
Wol Euler: electric threewheeled motorcycle
Agatha Macbeth: Or maybe fibre glass?
Wol Euler: low fibreglass body
Wol Euler: yep
arabella Ella: looks funny today
Agatha Macbeth: Everybody wanted one....
Agatha Macbeth: Not
Zen Arado: not is right :)
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder what Clive sinclair's doing now?
Zen Arado: wondered that too
arabella Ella: sleeping?
Wol Euler: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe he's a consultant for Microsoft :)
Zen Arado: only had a short burst of creativity it seems
Agatha Macbeth: Very short
Agatha Macbeth: I preferred the C64
Agatha Macbeth: Ah Commodore: what a cock-up that was
Zen Arado: maybe the c5 wil make a comeback
Agatha Macbeth: I think we bored Aztlan....
Wol Euler: he's making folding bikes now, apparently
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler: small enough to put in a largeish briefcase
Agatha Macbeth: Who, Aztlan?
--BELL--
Wol Euler: heh
Agatha Macbeth: Well he ain't here, that's for sure
arabella Ella: this is about Sinclair from Wikipedia: Despite his involvement in computing, he does not use the Internet.
Wol Euler: :)
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Quote from Clive: 'What's the Internet?'
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler: I'm afraid I will have to leave now, my dears, have to be at work early tomorrow.
Wol Euler: goodnight, sweet dreams
arabella Ella: nite Wol
Liza Deischer: bye Wol
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Wol ;-)
Zen Arado: nite Wol sleep well
Liza Deischer: I'm going too
arabella Ella: nite Liza
Aztlan Foss: sorry I made a sandwitch
Agatha Macbeth: To't ziens Liza
Zen Arado: nite Liza
Aztlan Foss: bye liza
Zen Arado: lots of mu friends are computer phobic
Zen Arado: it's an attitude more than capability
Aztlan Foss: SL isn't the simplest of computer programs to use either
arabella Ella: well i know people who write about the internet and who have never used it
Agatha Macbeth: Ah well, enjoy the rest of the evening folks, be seeing you
Zen Arado: no spose not
Aztlan Foss: bye agatha
arabella Ella: i find SL very user friendly
Zen Arado: bye Aga
arabella Ella: nite Agatha
Zen Arado: depends how computer you are
Zen Arado: literate
Aztlan Foss: if you're computer literate it's probably not that bad
arabella Ella: i'm not 'computer'
Zen Arado: :)
Aztlan Foss: I've had to teach people how to use computer and they don't have the motor skills to aim the mouse and click with out further moving the mouse
arabella Ella: as someone just said i think it requires motivation and attitude
Aztlan Foss: hahaha
Aztlan Foss: and basic skills
arabella Ella: and one builds a skill ... with practice
Zen Arado: I have freinds who were programmers fro years but don't use computers muh
Aztlan Foss: some of them didn't understand the concept of scrolling
Zen Arado: I still struggle to keep up
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: what do you try to keep up with Zen?
Zen Arado: computer technology
Zen Arado: I am on Twitter and find it hard to understand sometimes
arabella Ella: ah ... i hate changing my PC or laptop or software
Zen Arado: best to just use apps and forget about understanding maybe
arabella Ella: but one has to
arabella Ella: what would u like to understand about Twitter?
Zen Arado: don't know...just feel vaguely uneasy about it
Aztlan Foss: i think more and more certain apps don't come with much of a context and that's why it's hard to understand them
Zen Arado: like I am missing things
Aztlan Foss: i know a guy who uses it to keep track of when he starts and stops timing his work
arabella Ella: well I dont yes twitter yet but ... i see it as being similar to a 'status update' with instant access
Aztlan Foss: others to communicate
Zen Arado: I started writing haiku on it
arabella Ella: cool
Zen Arado: just for fun
arabella Ella: not easy i guess?
Zen Arado: and then strange people want to follow you...
arabella Ella: he he
Zen Arado: why I don't know?
Aztlan Foss: hehehe, to get people to go to their porn sites
arabella Ella: and ... seems like there is status the more followers one manages to gather
Zen Arado: yes ...noticed that one
Zen Arado: women with webcams...
Aztlan Foss: it probably also has to do with people wanting to be heard, even if they don't have much to say
arabella Ella: i was gonna say ... lots of gender imbalance in that sort of 'trying to attract'
Aztlan Foss: the more you have, the more people might see what you write, even if it's unimportant
Zen Arado: how on earth do they find you?
arabella Ella: as they do on facebook for example
arabella Ella: snooping around?
Aztlan Foss: and sometimes they just build spiders/bots
arabella Ella: yes
Zen Arado: maybe it's keywords on my profile?
Aztlan Foss: they create an account and then they have a program go through accounts to start following
arabella Ella: how funny
Zen Arado: notice I have a few 'spiritual'teachers
arabella Ella: on twitter?
Zen Arado: yes
arabella Ella: he he
Zen Arado: think its because I put Zen in my profile
Aztlan Foss: hehehe
arabella Ella: so funny
--BELL--
Aztlan Foss: it's hard to miss
Zen Arado: it was Eden who revived my interest in Twitter
Zen Arado: she writes haiku on it
arabella Ella: ah ... i think it is a fascinating phenomenon
arabella Ella: but as with anything else ... one needs time
Zen Arado: 'had we but world enough and time"
arabella Ella smiles
Zen Arado: you know it?
arabella Ella: no but it brings to mind a chat i had on SL yesterday
Zen Arado: ok
arabella Ella: about how we seem to make time our master and what is time and is it just as kant said part of the way we see the world ... etc
arabella Ella: can we drop the concept of time i wonder
Zen Arado: it is only a useful construct
arabella Ella: yes ... exactly
Zen Arado: I am too ti,e driven I think
Zen Arado: years of conditioning...
arabella Ella: most of us are
arabella Ella: but Zen ... when you meditate ... does time stop still?
Zen Arado: think men are worse than women in that regard
Zen Arado: maybe that is sexist?
Zen Arado: it does speed up I think
arabella Ella: depends who you are and what you do in life i guess ... male or female
Zen Arado: you notice it at retreats more
arabella Ella: but do you notice it in a different way?
Zen Arado: when retreat is over you wonder where all the time went
arabella Ella: :)
Zen Arado: no..it just seems to pas quicker
arabella Ella: in spite of all the 'slowing down'?
Zen Arado: I have read about zen masters meditating for hours and it seemd like a minute for them
arabella Ella: yes
Aztlan Foss: I think the problem with time is that you're always thinking in the now looking back on what happened and you can always persieve what happened differently
Zen Arado: you shold go to TSSK class :)
Zen Arado: TSK
Aztlan Foss: so you're applying time to your memories and it's kinda arbitrary in a way
arabella Ella: yes ... it is ... how can i describe this ... the present has past by the time i think of it ... and we often seem to be either in the past or in the future
Aztlan Foss: TSK?
arabella Ella: what is TSK?
Zen Arado: sorry Time space knowledge
arabella Ella: oh time space knowledge
arabella Ella: ye
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: i went to one of them
Zen Arado: name of the book they study
arabella Ella: but i cant seem to remember when it is on?
Yakuzza Lethecus: monday´s usually
Yakuzza Lethecus: at 2 pm
arabella Ella: oh yes thanks Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s not next monday if i remember right
Zen Arado: I bvought the book but am not keen on it
arabella Ella: but you just recommeded the class Zen?
Zen Arado: yo you
arabella Ella: yo yo?
Zen Arado: to you I mean :)
arabella Ella: oh to me
arabella Ella: :)
Zen Arado: sincde you seem interested in time
arabella Ella: yes i am
Zen Arado: you are into philosophy a lot Ara ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Zen Arado: do you teach it?
arabella Ella: well to some extent yes
arabella Ella: i teach a bit of philo yes
Zen Arado: whcig brand?
arabella Ella: i would like to be in it more ... but there is lots of other stuff i do too
arabella Ella: i teach philo of mind
Zen Arado: ah I see
arabella Ella: mind body problem etc
Zen Arado: I did an MA in political phil
arabella Ella: interesting
arabella Ella: did it do contemporary political philo too?
Zen Arado: forgotten most of it
arabella Ella: he he
arabella Ella: fraid i must go now
arabella Ella: thanks for the interesting chat nite all
Zen Arado: yes better go too
Aztlan Foss: night
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
Zen Arado: nite all