2010.01.18 07:00 - Dreaming in a prairie of wild flowers

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku.

    Wild flowers by Geoff (1).jpg

    Pema makes a short appearance, joining Bleu, TH, Widget, Zen and I: the conversation flows naturally from the Kira Time Worskop to the Five Bells Pub to phenomenology.

    Pema Pera: Hi Eden, Blue, TH!
    Eden Haiku: HI Pema!
    Pema Pera: How nice to see you both here, Blue & TH !!
    Pema Pera: oops!
    Pema Pera: my radar fooled me
    Pema Pera: or???
    Pema Pera: Hi again Bleu & TH :-)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Pema
    Eden Haiku: Hi Bleu , hi TH!
    TH Ordinary: hi!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Eden
    Pema Pera: I greeted you prematurely, after seeing you on my radar :-)
    Pema Pera: good to see both of you here, has been a while, TH!
    Bleu Oleander: got lost on the way
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eden Haiku: I was not seeing them at all either.
    Pema Pera: unfortunately, I can stay only a few minutes
    TH Ordinary: good to be with you again!
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Widget!
    Widget Whiteberry: gm
    Pema Pera: in less than seven hours I have to show up at the Kira Time workshop, and I'll have to sleep in between
    Pema Pera: hi Widget!
    Widget Whiteberry: 'smiles'
    Pema Pera: just wanted to say hi to everybody
    Widget Whiteberry: Time workshop?
    Eden Haiku: Nice to see you Pema. Did you have time to check the new Five Bells village pub here?
    Pema Pera: Yes, a Kira workshop Widget
    Pema Pera: yes, Eden, great pub!
    Bleu Oleander: we looked for the pub but couldn't find it
    Bleu Oleander: where is it?
    Pema Pera: http://slurl.com/secondlife/bieup/71/192/100/ is the place for the pub, Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: thanks
    TH Ordinary: thanks!
    Bleu Oleander: we'll check it out
    Eden Haiku: Thanks Pema.
    Pema Pera: Widget, for the time workshop see http://www.kira.org/index.php?option...135&Itemid=165
    Pema Pera: Hi Zen!
    Zen Arado: Hi All
    TH Ordinary: hi!
    Bleu Oleander: any more discussion about restarting the phonom workshop?
    Eden Haiku: Last week I did not find time to go to the time workshop. :-)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eden Haiku: Anyone would like to suggest a topic for the next 90 secs?
    Pema Pera: no, Bleu, nobody volunteered
    Bleu Oleander: too bad, very interesting!
    Bleu Oleander: we're trying to set up a salon on phenom in rl
    Eden Haiku: Th, I suppose you know about the fact that we record?
    TH Ordinary: yes
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    TH Ordinary: i will be on good behavior
    Eden Haiku: Good good!
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: that's great, Bleu!
    Pema Pera: Whom will you invite?
    Bleu Oleander: we are looking for someone at asu
    Bleu Oleander: or u of a
    Bleu Oleander: do you know of anyone?
    Pema Pera: no, sorry, there really aren't that many in the US
    Pema Pera: and also I won't know all of them, for sure
    Eden Haiku: Hello Zen!
    Zen Arado: Hi Eden:)
    Bleu Oleander: perhaps if we find someone, they may be might be interested in sl and we'll refer them to you
    Zen Arado: does it come under philosophy of Mind?
    TH Ordinary: i think so
    Pema Pera: I'd be happy to talk with anyone, Bleu, feel free to direct them to my email address
    Zen Arado: I was reading a book by a guy called Sokolowski
    Pema Pera: yes, he's written a great book, as introduction
    Zen Arado: yes that's the one
    Eden Haiku: It seems complicated to attract RL phenomenologists to SL events as you said on the chat log of yesterday Pema.
    Pema Pera: but I'd better get some sleep,
    Pema Pera: see you all soon again!
    TH Ordinary: great....we would be happy to pema
    Bleu Oleander: bye Pema!
    Zen Arado: bye Pema
    Eden Haiku: Yes, sleep well Pema. nice to see you!
    Pema Pera: sorry to have to rush -- up again in six hours :)
    Zen Arado: sleep well
    Bleu Oleander: Zen, what was the name of that book? and is it easy for a lay person to read?
    Zen Arado: just a sec
    Zen Arado: http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-t...3827840&sr=1-1
    Bleu Oleander: great, thank you
    Eden Haiku: You are so good with links Zen!
    Zen Arado: yes it seems quite good
    Zen Arado: I also bought one by Zhavi and Gallagher and it was much more difficult
    Bleu Oleander: i'll start with the easy one, thanks!
    Zen Arado: http://www.amazon.com/Phenomenologic...3827967&sr=1-3
    Zen Arado: yes- don't have the same motivation if the claSS HAS FINISHED THOUGH
    Zen Arado: sorry for caps
    Zen Arado: took me a long time to cotton to what phenom was about
    Eden Haiku: Hello Geoff!
    Zen Arado: and by that time class was finished
    Zen Arado: Hi Geoff
    Bleu Oleander: i'm still trying to get an idea of what it's about
    Zen Arado: yes me too


    As we welcome Geoff, we consider inner strength for humans as well as for computers…

    Eden Haiku: Widget, are you still feeling 'hermity'? ;)
    Zen Arado: similarity to Buddhist ideas attracts me
    Widget Whiteberry: Hi Geoff
    Widget Whiteberry: hmmm, these clothes have become me
    Geoff Baily: yes thanks
    Geoff Baily: also asked Riddle
    Eden Haiku: They look very comfy yes, and powerful at the same time.
    Eden Haiku: Like gathering inner strength.
    Widget Whiteberry: well put,
    Widget Whiteberry: thats what i need to be doing
    Widget Whiteberry: Geoff needs some tech help, more than I can provide
    Widget Whiteberry: Geoff, you might ask for it here
    Eden Haiku: Inner strength could be a nice focus for our next 90 secs. How do others feel about that?
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Widget Whiteberry nods
    Geoff Baily: yes ok
    TH Ordinary: ok
    Geoff Baily: if you were buying a laptop for SL, what wld be te specs?
    Zen Arado: as fast as possible
    Zen Arado: and good graphics card
    Zen Arado: I have a Toshiba laptop
    Geoff Baily: eg,
    Widget Whiteberry: Read system requirements here: http://secondlife.com/support/downloads.php
    Bleu Oleander: i have a macbook pro and it works great
    Eden Haiku: Macbook works great yes.
    Bleu Oleander: good graphics card essential
    Geoff Baily: OK thanks, in the system req there are m
    Bleu Oleander: and lots of memory
    Zen Arado: it has 2.4 ghz dual core and ATI card with 512 Ram
    Geoff Baily: options tho'
    Zen Arado: but still gets slow rating from SL
    Eden Haiku: Inner strength for computers.
    Geoff Baily: Ok thanks, will go and talk to the guy in the little shop down the road with that in mind
    Zen Arado: I think laptops are slower than PC's even with the same apparent rating
    Eden Haiku: Good luck with your explorations Geoff.
    Zen Arado: because of the need to save power
    Widget Whiteberry: slower than desktops?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Geoff Baily: thanks,,)
    Widget Whiteberry: I have a desktop after years of laptops and am very happy with it
    Widget Whiteberry: iMac
    Bleu Oleander: i think it also depends on your internet connection

    Prairie by Eden-1.jpg

    Something has changed: grass is growing very fast between us in the pavilion, flowers are spreading forth, trees are in bloom:  just like after  the first rains of monsoon in India. We soon realize who are the magicians of this sudden transformation: Moon and Stargate, who just arrived.

    Moon Fargis: greetings everyone
    Eden Haiku: Welcome Moon!
    Widget Whiteberry: Hello Moon, Stargate
    Stargate Tone: _/!\_ all
    Widget Whiteberry: wow, who made the seasons change?
    Eden Haiku: And invisible Stargate!
    Moon Fargis: magic :)
    Geoff Baily: hello Moon
    Eden Haiku: Spring!
    Zen Arado: Hi Moon
    Geoff Baily: nice
    Moon Fargis: you prefer winter?
    Stargate Tone: ah yes; all dont see faires :)***
    Zen Arado: Hi Star
    Eden Haiku: I enjoyed so much your photo albums Moon, they are WONDERFUL!
    Moon Fargis: oh thanks :)
    Widget Whiteberry: this looks like both spring and fall
    Moon Fargis: yep :)
    Eden Haiku: Maybe you can post the link again for those who haven't seen them yet?
    Zen Arado: we've turned into Hikari :)
    Zen Arado: much nicer
    Moon Fargis: well must be this one http://picasaweb.google.com/Sylvio.Kurze/Impressions
    Eden Haiku: Hikari is another Sim right? Are avatars being able to cross from one Sim to the other?
    Stargate Tone: oh sure
    Widget Whiteberry: Eden, do you mean 'grid'?
    Stargate Tone: with LM; the teleport
    Eden Haiku: Grid yes, Widget thanks.
    Eden Haiku: Thanks Moon.
    Stargate Tone: that's LM to Hikari
    Eden Haiku: I will make sure to visit.
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Stargate Tone: Hikaru is next to it; 'expanded' Hikari
    Moon Fargis: bring some time with yourself then :)
    Zen Arado: Moon designs Sims for people
    Moon Fargis: yes i try to make sl not to look like....
    Moon Fargis: that
    Stargate Tone: so you can go there walking by the bridge from Hikari tu Hikaru, but it's laggy to cross sims for server problem
    Bleu Oleander: :(
    Stargate Tone: so; good to use the LM
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Geoff Baily: just took a photo, ok with everyone here?
    Eden Haiku: Oh my God, we are dreaming into a prairie of wild flowers now!
    Stargate Tone: hm
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Stargate Tone: did U Eden got them LM's to Hikaru and Angel's cry ?
    Zen Arado: I love colourful shrubs
    Stargate Tone: as Angel's cry is also Moon's and his builded
    Eden Haiku: Yes, I just got yours now Stargate.
    Moon Fargis: hmm you have to see the hm hmm i frogot the english name
    Moon Fargis: in german its Blutkirsche (The word is blood cherry according to online translation)
    Stargate Tone: **
    Moon Fargis: it carrys white creamy/rose blossoms even before them cherrys do
    Moon Fargis: and then the leafs turn to a dark red
    Eden Haiku: I have seen the fairy! I'm blessed!
    Moon Fargis: ah might i even too ka photo of it
    Stargate Tone: a bet fairy dust around :)***
    Stargate Tone: *giggles*
    Zen Arado: can't figure out how you do that Moon
    Moon Fargis: its a tree in RL :)
    Zen Arado: you link all the shrubs?
    Moon Fargis: ah
    Moon Fargis: watch this then :)
    Eden Haiku: Even the birds seem to notice this is a midsummer's dream!
    Stargate Tone: Moon created the garden version to 'wear'
    Geoff Baily: lovely
    Bleu Oleander: starting to sneeze!
    Stargate Tone: bless you
    Moon Fargis: gesundheit :)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Zen Arado: ah I remember that movie
    Eden Haiku: Bless you Bleu ;)
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Eden Haiku: Is Stargate a RL avatar as well or an alt Moon?
    Moon Fargis: shes real :)
    Eden Haiku: TH is slumbering a summer slumb.
    Zen Arado: slumb? (I meant 'slumber', Zen was right to point the mistake)
    Eden Haiku: Thanks. You are from Germany and she is from Finland yes?
    Moon Fargis: yep

    Fairy dust by Geoff 33 ko).jpg

    The fairy dust dispensed by Stargate makes us a bit more dreamy. I could hear snapshots clicks and realized Geoff was taking pictures: he would send lots of them later on :-) Some of which I posted in this log. Our environment was turning into a cornucopia as Zen would put it.


    TH Ordinary: the fairy dust put me to sleep
    Stargate Tone: well...it was in a way 'tricky' question; was surprised U to think me to be Moon's alt...
    Zen Arado: Chrysantheum cornucopia?
    Eden Haiku: I might be getting creative a way too much with all this weed around...
    Stargate Tone: but...as it's also RL thing that I am 'a bit' Moon's fairy too...
    Stargate Tone: and yes; my lag in english mixed my mind to blow more deep your question
    Widget Whiteberry: Stargate reads to me like ee cummings
    Stargate Tone: meaning how it can be taken to need 'several' answers :)***
    Eden Haiku: I feel like reading a children book as when I was a child. Stepping into a world of wonders.
    Stargate Tone: smiles happily *
    Moon Fargis: *giggles
    Eden Haiku: No worries Star. I was just getting curious...
    Stargate Tone: pls feel free
    Zen Arado: yes funny how this takes me back to childhood
    Stargate Tone: well; I've had this bigger fairy form long time...appeared with that to many people who's wanted my help
    Eden Haiku: I enjoyed so much Moon's photos with these youngsters in front of a Coke machine in a desert cafeteria somewhere nowhere.
    Eden Haiku: Hyperealism!
    Moon Fargis: :D
    Stargate Tone: told that I wanna be only the little fairy to bring some help and only good things
    Moon Fargis: *ponders
    Zen Arado: you have to paint some pictures on your I touch now Eden!
    Zen Arado: and put on Twitter
    Eden Haiku: By the way, thank you so much for pointing to the 'brushes' app for Ipod touch Zen. (Zen and I are being telepathic here, writing simultaneously!)
    Moon Fargis: eden: this :http://picasaweb.google.com/Sylvio.K...06420172986194 ?
    Eden Haiku: I have been painting watching the end of the Golden Globes Awards yesterday night. Fantastic app!
    Zen Arado: you can do self portraits from reflection on screen
    Zen Arado: that's what Hockney does
    Eden Haiku: oh! The link does not seem functional Moon.
    Zen Arado: I haven't tried it yet
    Moon Fargis: http://picasaweb.google.com/Sylvio.K...06420172986194
    Eden Haiku: Geoff is making great photos of this session I would think...
    Zen Arado: was painting with real paint earlier
    Moon Fargis: ahye i wish someone would paint SL
    Moon Fargis: as artist
    Eden Haiku: That is the one. So much in that picture!
    Moon Fargis: left is me right my best friend :)
    Moon Fargis: already 5 years ago
    Zen Arado: ah so young Moon
    Moon Fargis: just look like that :D


    Spirits of places: inspired by Moon's photo albums, we talk about the poetry of empty buildings

    Zen Arado: but that would be twice removed from reality Moon
    Moon Fargis: hmm please define reality ^^
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eden Haiku: The pictures of your room and your pet and the fields you walked through are also great. And the empty sanatorium! There is also one just like that near my summer place, empty sanatorium. But I never dared ventured inside.
    Zen Arado: Plato said something about art being too far removed from reality
    Zen Arado: but he thought this life was an imperfect copy of some 'real' place
    Eden Haiku: The cave?
    Zen Arado: sp a painting is three times removed
    Eden Haiku: ;)
    Moon Fargis: eden: ah i love old ruined places , standing i na motten old ballroom in a left house alone wch has been left for 20 years ..its pure energy
    Zen Arado: not quite the cave Eden
    Eden Haiku: Yes, there is some inherent poetry to these empty buildings. I always want to make a movie when I see that kind of place.
    Zen Arado: a place of perfect forms like heaven
    Eden Haiku: Looking up for a link...
    Zen Arado: the Victorian art critic, John Ruskin , complained anout so much emphasis by artists on the 'tumbledown Picturesque'
    Moon Fargis: art always lays in the viewers eye
    Zen Arado: wonder why we are attracted to such?
    Eden Haiku: http://www.nextfloor-film.com/
    Zen Arado: must be the feeling of ppl having lived there
    Moon Fargis: yes
    Eden Haiku: If you have a chance to watch this short movie, it is quite extraordinary.
    Zen Arado: maybe people's lives are recorded in the building somehow
    Moon Fargis: ohh there are lot of belives
    Eden Haiku: Yes Zen, I would think so. People memories that we can sense.
    Moon Fargis: that happenings good or bad can beleft behind
    Eden Haiku: Visiting Anne Frank's attic in Amsterdam, I felt very moved.
    Zen Arado: and someday scientists will discover these energy fields maybe
    Moon Fargis: yes thats what i worry a bit
    Eden Haiku: Closing my eyes during the break, I noticed how excited I get by the action and all taking place in the pavilion this morning. A feeling of breaking new ground.
    Stargate Tone: since my childhood 'the walls have spoken to me'
    Moon Fargis: eden: try not to vreak trhought it :)
    Geoff Baily: the lady who looked after Anne Frak's diary has just died
    Moon Fargis: break
    Stargate Tone: and by time I've learned to understand more clearly, how people leave something of them to everything they touchd
    Eden Haiku: I do practice Balinese energy cleansing rituals everywhere I sleep. Walls do talk to me too ;)
    Zen Arado: well - if we store traumas in our bodies it is a short step to thinking memories can be stored in buildings
    Stargate Tone: ah yes
    Geoff Baily: spirit of place
    Eden Haiku: @Moon, what do you mean?
    Geoff Baily: can be very powerful sometimes
    Stargate Tone: and for example when I let my address for ppl to write me , I asked them to write by hand, that I dont reply to 'machine written' letters
    Eden Haiku: Oh! Interesting. Very European!
    Stargate Tone: cuz when one uses pen and paper, one leaves even such thougths that one dont realize in earthly mind
    Eden Haiku: Yes Geoff, sounds logical.
    Moon Fargis: well let me form like this, when discovering new grounds, see them as holy to protect them
    Eden Haiku: Oh, thank you. I will thread very carefully, on catlike paws...
    Stargate Tone: as I explaned them dreams, and often ppl dont notice to tell all , but when I make questions, but them questions 'disappear' when one has written the letter by hand
    Zen Arado: just wondering if handwriting will disappear in a few years
    Moon Fargis: well
    Zen Arado: everyone using keyboards
    Moon Fargis: since iburned all my handwritten stuff especially the math stuff.. i dont knwo :)


    Bleu Oleander: slipping out quietly .... rl calls ..... thanks for a very beautiful PaB!
    Moon Fargis: but highly depends on what you use
    TH Ordinary: bye..thanks for the conversation
    Eden Haiku: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/ny...on/12gies.html
    Zen Arado: bye Bleu
    Moon Fargis: see you
    Geoff Baily: bye Bleu
    Stargate Tone: _/!\_ ble
    Eden Haiku: Link to Miep Gies who wrote 'Anne Frank remembered.' Great book!
    Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu.
    Moon Fargis: ahyes nice, ive red the book when i worked for a year in a memorial concentration camp
    Eden Haiku: Widget, it was nice sitting with your quiet self this morning, ;-)
    Zen Arado: this place will seem bare when you go Moon!
    Widget Whiteberry: thank you, Eden
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Eden Haiku: Where was that Moon? Quite an experience.
    Widget Whiteberry: it will be a blank canvass - all possibility
    Eden Haiku: ;-) I like blank canvasses
    Moon Fargis: eden: Kz -gedenkstätte mittelbau dora
    Widget Whiteberry: I want to look at the new build
    Zen Arado: perhaps I should design my own personal background to bring with me
    Moon Fargis: near nordhausen , where they produced the V" weapons
    Moon Fargis: V2
    Eden Haiku: You have the link Widget?
    Widget Whiteberry: Oh Zen, don't we all bring our context?
    Widget Whiteberry: I could use it again, Eden
    Eden Haiku: It is close to the Village Hall to the left.
    Zen Arado: true
    Widget Whiteberry: ty
    Moon Fargis: ok i also should get up i guess
    Moon Fargis: was nice talking with you ^^
    Zen Arado: yes I have to make my dinner soon
    Geoff Baily: thankyou Moon
    Zen Arado: you too Moon
    Eden Haiku: Very nice Moon, thanks!
    Moon Fargis: ^^/
    Eden Haiku: Was pleased to meet you 
    Zen Arado: I am making a lentil stew
    Zen Arado: so i have to cut a lot of vegetables
    Geoff Baily: mm
    Eden Haiku: Yummmy!
    Zen Arado: takes me ages
    Geoff Baily: hello Susi
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ All
    Zen Arado: Hi Susi
    Eden Haiku: You should buy one of these miracle cutters they advertise on TV Zen! Hello Susi!
    Zen Arado: I bought a food processor
    Zen Arado: it wasn't much help
    Eden Haiku: But it still take ages...
    Zen Arado: and you have to wash it at the end
    Geoff Baily: takes an age to clean those
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eden Haiku: Yes, I see what you mean. So the only alternative is to get into the zen of cutting vegetables ;-)
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Zen Arado: yes - you do it mindfully :)
    Geoff Baily: good healthy food
    Eden Haiku: There is a special way to cut each vegetable. Learn that but forgot a lot...
    Zen Arado: or watch TV at the same time :)
    Geoff Baily: or good music
    Zen Arado: yes
    Stargate Tone: wishes also good time to all *
    Zen Arado: yes yoy too Star
    Eden Haiku: Yes. Did you watch the Golden Globes? (I'm glad to know Storm does not read the logs because he despises TV :)
    Zen Arado: I am going too
    Geoff Baily: thanks Stargate
    Eden Haiku: Bye Stargate. It was so nice meeting you@ Bye Zen!
    Zen Arado: bye all
    Eden Haiku: Enjoy your meal.
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Geoff Baily: bye Zen
    Geoff Baily: bye
    Geoff Baily: have you been here before Susi, don't think we have met before
    Susi Alcott: well; have been much away, but been in PaB meetings quite early it's beginning
    Eden Haiku: Are you aware that we record everything here Susi?
    Eden Haiku: Would you agree to be recorded in the log?
    Geoff Baily: oh you can remember the beginning, not the April though I think
    Geoff Baily: ah another Guardian,sorry did not pick that up
    Susi Alcott: well ; now U see that I'm the guardian
    Geoff Baily: yes i saw
    Susi Alcott: I can remember from two months from PaB's beginning
    Geoff Baily: good t meet you!
    Susi Alcott: but sadly I also now must go again
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Geoff Baily: you are so lucky
    Susi Alcott: ?
    Eden Haiku: Oh sorry Susi. You certainly do not need our notecard and recording permissions routine then...We are both new guardians here.
    Geoff Baily: bye Susi wouldlove to talk more
    Susi Alcott: hoping the same; was very nice to meet you two *
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Susi Alcott: starpower
    Eden Haiku: So Geoff how do you feel about hosting this slot for a while when I'm gone? Thank you for offering your time.
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Eden Haiku: Nice meeting you Susi.
    Geoff Baily: nice thanks for the flowers Susi
    Geoff Baily: I must go too Eden, bye
    Eden Haiku: See you at the pub Geoff ;-)


    Geoff and I walk to the Five Bells village pub

    (walking in the north direction to http://slurl.com/secondlife/bieup/71/192/100/), where we are soon joined by six other avatars in an ebb and flow of comings and goings that will last for more than one hour. There is some vocal chatting, darts playing, Guiness drinking and Moroccan tea sipping. The fireplace crackles happily as we spend time together in this cozy meeting place.

    As I find out later in an email, Pema suggests all of us to meet there in between sessions, for a half hour or so: 

      4:00 -  4:30 am SLT

      10:00 - 10:30 am SLT

       4:00 -  4:30 pm SLT

      10:00 - 10:30 pm SLT

    As he says: 'With four "happy (half) hour" times each day, it should be easy to find at least a few other thirsty souls there from time to time.'


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     Fairy dust by Geoff 33 ko).jpg
    Stargate dispensing fairy dust
    33.83 kB20:49, 9 Apr 2010edenActions
     Prairie by Eden-1.jpg
    Geoff, Eden and Widget lost in wild flowers
    147.76 kB20:49, 9 Apr 2010edenActions
     Wild flowers by Geoff (1).jpg
    Moon, Geoff, Eden, Widget, Zen, TH and Bleu
    121 kB20:49, 9 Apr 2010edenActions
    Viewing 2 of 2 comments: view all
    Originally written on 02:24, 21 Jan 2010
    Eden said, "I'm glad to know Storm does not read the logs..." :)
    Posted 13:49, 9 Apr 2010
    Originally written on 03:39, 21 Jan 2010
    I'm glad to know Storm does read the logs:)
    Posted 13:49, 9 Apr 2010
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