2010.01.19 19:00 - Looking inside

Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.

 

Eos Amaterasu: HI Cal

Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Eos

Eos Amaterasu: Have to check out the newly renovated Five Bells Pub

Calvino Rabeni: The last PaB group went there almost wholesale today

Eos Amaterasu: I've been overly busy in RL lately

Eos Amaterasu: so haven't been spending as much SL time as usual

Calvino Rabeni: Same here.

Calvino Rabeni: Life is full

Eos Amaterasu: Working, getting ready for Malta, taking care of a flood of details

Calvino Rabeni: What will the Malta accommodations be like?

Calvino Rabeni: Hello Bene

Eos Amaterasu: There's a "guesthouse", the Point de Vue, where we will all be staying

Eos Amaterasu: (was used as an RAF lookout during WW II)

Calvino Rabeni: Semi private rooms?

Eos Amaterasu: It's 10 minutes from the "meditation farmhouse" where the retreat itself will take place

Eos Amaterasu: on the more rural part of Malta

Eos Amaterasu: I think private rooms (I suppose I should know more definitely)

Eos Amaterasu: it helps to have a container for a retreat

Benedizione Vita: evening

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Benedizione

Eos Amaterasu: Any suggestions for approaching the upcoming 90 secs?

Calvino Rabeni: Consider some "belief" that seems "drop"-able ?

Calvino Rabeni: ...he said, sticking to basics :)

--BELL--

Benedizione Vita: phew

Benedizione Vita: stopping my hearbeat and breathing for 90 seconds sure is hard work

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza

Benedizione Vita: evening eliza

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, Bene, Cal

Eos Amaterasu: one heartbeat / one breath?

Benedizione Vita: well I figure being probably doesn't need to breathe, so when I play as being I usually stop all body functions

Eos Amaterasu: !

Calvino Rabeni: nods to Eliza familiarly

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal has spent entirely too much time in SL today, but the pub was fun :)

Benedizione Vita: big crowd?

Eliza Madrigal: a bit... 12 of us at some point I think...

Eos Amaterasu: wow

Eos Amaterasu: global happy hour

Eliza Madrigal smiles

Eos Amaterasu: Re stopping, stopping all body functions... how would you describe what you experience, Bene?

Benedizione Vita: I wonder if peoples behavior changes when they drink SL alcohol

Benedizione Vita: I bet it does

Benedizione Vita: well, eos, it usually damn well hurts when the heart stops beating, but I take this PaB thing so seriously I think it is worth the pain

Benedizione Vita: I have a defibrillator set up on a time to revive me at the end

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eos Amaterasu: Sounds like that movie about people pushing the envelope of near-death experiences

Eliza Madrigal: how so Eos?

Eos Amaterasu: idea was to have an NDE, so flatlined, with your friends standing by to revive you

Eos Amaterasu: so you could report on the experience

Eos Amaterasu: (sounds familiar?)

Eliza Madrigal: ahhhh yes flatliners

Benedizione Vita: that is really scary

Eos Amaterasu: indeed!

Eliza Madrigal: it was a neat film for the time

Eos Amaterasu: "Altered States"

Eliza Madrigal: interesting to consider too... friends as supports while exploring the edges...

Benedizione Vita: please excuse me for a moment; I must juice some oranges

Eos Amaterasu: There is that intention of letting go while dropping intention, including that of coming back

Eos Amaterasu: but then the solid reference point of where you're coming from also dissolves

Eliza Madrigal: and friends?

Eos Amaterasu: which doesn't mean you're elsewhere - you're just in the big here

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: you're no longer in the way maybe

Eos Amaterasu: no longer holding yourself back, but also no longer holding a solid place vs which you "deviate" or go crazy from

Eliza Madrigal: no platform

Eos Amaterasu: no parachute

Eliza Madrigal: no net

Eos Amaterasu: no hard landing

Eliza Madrigal: other landings?

Eos Amaterasu: we always seem to rig those up for ourselves

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eos Amaterasu: so humor those too

Eos Amaterasu: in oneself and others

Eliza Madrigal: we may only judge when we think we're over 'there' or 'here'

Calvino Rabeni: It seems common to me lately, that when people "look inside" they encounter stuff they don't want to handle.

Eliza Madrigal: Ins't that par for the course.. one thinking that they are supposed to 'handle' those things?

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)

stevenaia Michinaga: hello

Calvino Rabeni: That seems to leave a kind of thin zone of safety in which to hang out in.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Steve!

Calvino Rabeni: Hello Stevenaia

stevenaia Michinaga: hello all

Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, they think something like - handle it, or it will handle ME.

Eos Amaterasu: there is a discipline of staying with the rough edges, or the scary places - quality of mercy also to that

Calvino Rabeni: But the strange other is within, not ME, therefore a fear comes up

Eos Amaterasu: and avoidance happens

Calvino Rabeni: "ME" turns into a flatland between the scary out there and the scary IN there

Eliza Madrigal: or maybe they feel a duty to others to keep it contained.. hehe

Benedizione Vita: yes, I used to have that one a lot Eliza! ;)

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eos Amaterasu: so you remote yourself from the energy

Benedizione Vita: I think it is a good idea to let it out slowly

Calvino Rabeni: Try this experiment - sit with a couple of people, and ask them to tell everything that went really well during the last week.

Benedizione Vita: trying to let it out too fast can be not letting it out at all perhaps...

Calvino Rabeni: What happens?

Benedizione Vita: well, time for bene to say goodnight

Benedizione Vita: his eyelids are drooping

Eliza Madrigal: Even with the juice?

stevenaia Michinaga: night Bene

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eos Amaterasu: good nite, Bene!

Benedizione Vita: goodnight all :)

Eliza Madrigal: Night Bene

Eliza Madrigal: I would imagine everyone pours out stories, Cal?

Calvino Rabeni: What I observed is that they have a hard time sticking with the "goes well" stories and quickly switch to how badly things are going and stories of being unable

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Sounds like a crowd that needs 9 sec practice :)

Eliza Madrigal: but I do know what you encounter.. have friends I feel like that with... resist talking about the positives too much.. a kind of fear?

Calvino Rabeni: Yes they go into their fear

Eos Amaterasu: maybe there's less "you" in the good things

Eos Amaterasu: less about you

Calvino Rabeni: Does that seem true?

Eliza Madrigal: It seems true that there may be less self-consciousness...

Eliza Madrigal: but not that one can't share from that place

Eos Amaterasu: more what you're experiencing, especially with peak experiences

Eos Amaterasu: harder to describe

Calvino Rabeni: This is like saying - the ego is the "fall guy" who gets the blame whenever things go wrong, but not the credit when they go well?

Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure it is about blame/credit at all

Eliza Madrigal: if one notices 'ego' in the way...noticing it seems like blame.. but really more exposing?

Eos Amaterasu: "it's all about me" is prominent when me is not doing well, or struggling

Calvino Rabeni: I'm just saying, the doer of good results and the doer of problematical results, may be the same doer, but the attention somehow attaches to where it is problematical

Eliza Madrigal: exposing as freeing... offering... letting go

Eliza Madrigal: Hm, yes perhaps

Eos Amaterasu: that's part of the obstacle to exploring being, perhaps:

Eos Amaterasu: we don't know what to do when we let go

Eos Amaterasu: we think we might go crazy, but that's coming from a holding tight view (if we let go it will explode, so press it down!)

Calvino Rabeni: When those friends "look at" themselves, it seems to induce the same uncomfortable type of self consciousness as when as a small child, they were caught with negative parental attention

Eliza Madrigal: hm, like reinforcing each others obstacle mentality as a way of bonding :)

Calvino Rabeni: maybe sometimes :)

Calvino Rabeni: That sounds somewhat positive as an interpretation

Eos Amaterasu: attaining common identification

Calvino Rabeni: Another positive interpretation is that they are asking for help

Calvino Rabeni: by presenting the things they struggle with

Eliza Madrigal nods

Calvino Rabeni: which implies a trust plus a desire to go past those conceived limitations

Eliza Madrigal: I've seen wonderful moments of midwifery... when someone felt things very densely and was pushed through...

Eliza Madrigal: no formulas, but those moments are special

Calvino Rabeni: It is a witness / help role - you could witness a birth of something new, or a stillbirth

Eliza Madrigal: Re staying with discomfort... I actually had a powerful dream along those lines recently.. a friend and a hug and I'd try to stop but they'd continue... until i had no barrier left. I felt it carried over beyond the dream...

Eliza Madrigal: just very simple... someone staying with another in presence.. maybe not doing anything

Eliza Madrigal: but yes a trust

Eos Amaterasu: holding space

Eliza Madrigal: yes, holding space

Eos Amaterasu: presence is both there, pointed, and open

Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, I think I'm beginning to understand the resistance some have to meditation

Eliza Madrigal nods... yes sure...

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Seems I can better understand those who maybe don't hm... adventure in meditation... but just noticing breathing... short pauses... Seems harmless enough :)

Eliza Madrigal: Or maybe they see us and think it is a slippery slope... hahah

Calvino Rabeni: It can be a slippery slope for them

stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, see you tomarrow :) nice jsut listening sometimes, thank you Eliza

Calvino Rabeni: Bye steve

Eos Amaterasu: Ciao, Steve

Eliza Madrigal: Night Steve, good to see you :)

Eos Amaterasu: fear of space

Eos Amaterasu: reach for the clicker

Calvino Rabeni: Fear of shadows that hold demonic forces

Eos Amaterasu: fear of looking at the shadow(s)

Eos Amaterasu: so they grow stronger by not looking

Calvino Rabeni: I think I'm pretty comfortable with those spaces, for the main part

Calvino Rabeni: but I was at a retreat this last weekend,and saw others have trouble with it

Calvino Rabeni: a friend kind of "spun out" for a while

Eliza Madrigal: Ah

Calvino Rabeni: I must have found it a bit disturbing

Calvino Rabeni: I felt there's not much I can do for them

Eliza Madrigal: Hm, but they were at a retreat, so obviously trying to enjoy support... face something?

Eos Amaterasu: I think just "holding space", just being there, transcends trying to accomplish anything

Calvino Rabeni: SO I felt chastened somewhat about having a glib attitude to recommend people "look within"

Eliza Madrigal nods

Eliza Madrigal: yes I can understand that... feel that too from time to time...

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, a certain number of people use the retreat environment apparently to struggle with their shadows in a dramatic way

Calvino Rabeni: But kind of chance getting a little lost while doing it

Eliza Madrigal: it may be another double edged sword... for instance SL is a great tool... amazing communities... but I still have to see when I'm using it as escape... takes time

Calvino Rabeni: True, sometimes meditation is an escape too

Eliza Madrigal: yes, and people

Eliza Madrigal: maybe anything :)

Eos Amaterasu: we're very clever and resourceful

Eliza Madrigal: indeed

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, they throw themselves in a dark pit, then rescue themselves

Eos Amaterasu: in a light pit

Eos Amaterasu: pity

Calvino Rabeni: And having returned from "the underworld" hopefully with a wisdom tale or two

Eos Amaterasu: people go thru stuff, so offering space comes with the care of them and that process

Eos Amaterasu: but care doesn't mean you can save or rescue them

Calvino Rabeni: I think, the best I can do is help them recognize whatever they learned by doing that

Eliza Madrigal nods...

Eliza Madrigal: mirror perhaps

Calvino Rabeni: We talk about our "edges" a lot.

Eos Amaterasu: Paradise Tennant: and you expand from the edginess of finite to something softer .. without boundaries..

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Something softer :) Nice

Eliza Madrigal: (text is laggy) May I share one more dream story?... seems to apply a bit...

Eos Amaterasu listens

Calvino Rabeni: :)

Eliza Madrigal: I was trying to feed this woman, a drug addict, and she kept breaking the jars that the food was in, that I'd taken lot of time with. I felt angry, but not 'at' her... found myself scheming "How can I trick her into eating this?" It was compassionate scheming... seemed a different ethic

Eliza Madrigal: there may be times for that too :)

Eos Amaterasu: trickster ethic

Calvino Rabeni: you were thinking for her

Eliza Madrigal: Well she was there... at the place where I was giving food...

Eliza Madrigal: going to get it...

Eliza Madrigal: but unable

Calvino Rabeni: In dreams, it's a challenge to reverse the perspective and see the "other" as part of oneself

Eliza Madrigal: It made me think of some of the book discussion Eos and I had, about the context dictating action, etc

Eliza Madrigal: and yes I certainly wondered whether I was dreaming of myself at some point :)

Calvino Rabeni: I don't recall the discussion, but the idea makes sense

Eliza Madrigal: figuratively, etc

Eos Amaterasu: dreams are a bit like being, in that way (other / me are fluid)

Eliza Madrigal nods

Eliza Madrigal: It came to mind thinking about the helplessness we can feel to 'rescue' others

Calvino Rabeni: The retreat I went to included a lot of people involved in service- specifically hospice and bereavment

Eos Amaterasu: the help comes packaged

Calvino Rabeni: and the of course, wrestled with those issues

Calvino Rabeni: which in a way are dream-like

Eliza Madrigal: hmmm, yes

Eliza Madrigal: packaged, Eos?

Eos Amaterasu: in jars

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Calvino Rabeni: The "helpers" claimed the value of coming to terms with the possibility / inevitablilty of their own death

Eos Amaterasu: that seems also an aspect of tricksters, like animal tricksters

Calvino Rabeni: because if they hadn't, then seeing others was nothing but disturbing

Calvino Rabeni: and if they had, then the meeting was for those who needed the help, not about the helper

Calvino Rabeni: heh heh :)

Eliza Madrigal thinks of Stim saying, about the ego "The poor thing needs help"

Calvino Rabeni: right

Eos Amaterasu: perspective + mercy

Eliza Madrigal: ordinary mind actually, would be his phrasing...

Eliza Madrigal: Eye of Mercy, as Sophia would say perhaps :)

Calvino Rabeni: And actually it was a fun weekend, but no one seems to believe me :)

Eliza Madrigal is going to need help getting up tomorrow... hah

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: the trickster thing is not so much the edges, about one thing or another

Eos Amaterasu: but about the shiftiness of one thing turning into another

Eliza Madrigal: hmmm.. not sure I understand... would like to

Eos Amaterasu: the medium of trickery seems the bigger message

Eos Amaterasu: Trickster Fox shows you your mind

Eos Amaterasu: and how things are

Eliza Madrigal: I rarely feel anger... and felt it as very natural there.. very appropriate...

Eos Amaterasu: energy not in a jar

Calvino Rabeni: Haiti kind of loomed over the collective unconscious this last week

Calvino Rabeni: Eliza do you blog still?

Eliza Madrigal: I still write entries but I've taken it private for now

Calvino Rabeni: Like journaling then

Eliza Madrigal: trying to see if what I share is affected

Eliza Madrigal: basically I guess

Eliza Madrigal nods... yes have thought a bit about helplessness and distance .. about 'nearly' being able to touch/affect things...

Eliza Madrigal: watching haiti coverage... people right there but can't move the wreckage...

Eliza Madrigal: me seeing on tv

Eliza Madrigal: distance and yet there... and how connected we are

Eos Amaterasu: care and helplessness and complicity - big symbol

Calvino Rabeni: yes a symbol hard to see through to being

Eliza Madrigal nods... we are they, though... whatever it may look like on the surface

Eliza Madrigal: whatever it may seem like/sound like... at least thats my sense... that it matters to care

Calvino Rabeni: A friend of mine took on that challenge. I admired him for it.

Eliza Madrigal: which seems obvious...

Eliza Madrigal: but maybe I'm thinking about not shutting out our hearts

Calvino Rabeni: To look into the depth of another's suffering and not shut the heart

Calvino Rabeni: to let it break open

Eliza Madrigal pauses to think about these things...

Eos Amaterasu: Well, gentleman and lady, thank you for this - I must go

Eos Amaterasu: leaving it open....

Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Eos

Calvino Rabeni: YW Eos good night

Eos Amaterasu: Good night Eliza and Calvino!

Calvino Rabeni: :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Calvino.. a full and rich session

Eliza Madrigal: I'd better get to bed :)

Eliza Madrigal: These long SL days seem so indulgent !

Calvino Rabeni: I know what you mean!

Eliza Madrigal: Still, times and seasons for everything, right :)

Calvino Rabeni: I little multitasking to justify things, though :)

Calvino Rabeni: You won't see me around here much, come summer, in all probability :)

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, life changing?

Calvino Rabeni: Life is seasonal

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Calvino Rabeni: I mean, lifestyle :)

Calvino Rabeni: I don't try to level it out

Eliza Madrigal: Seems a good strategy, that

Calvino Rabeni: I'll send a message to PAB every now and then - "great view from this mountain top" or something :)

Eliza Madrigal: hahaha

Calvino Rabeni: Mobile phone missives :)

Calvino Rabeni: Ah, dinner calls!

Eliza Madrigal: and don't forget to twitter

Eliza Madrigal: Night :)

Calvino Rabeni: Got it all ready for pocket twitter :)

Calvino Rabeni: Bye ELiza

Eliza Madrigal: Bye Calvino