Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.
Eos Amaterasu: HI Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Have to check out the newly renovated Five Bells Pub
Calvino Rabeni: The last PaB group went there almost wholesale today
Eos Amaterasu: I've been overly busy in RL lately
Eos Amaterasu: so haven't been spending as much SL time as usual
Calvino Rabeni: Same here.
Calvino Rabeni: Life is full
Eos Amaterasu: Working, getting ready for Malta, taking care of a flood of details
Calvino Rabeni: What will the Malta accommodations be like?
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Bene
Eos Amaterasu: There's a "guesthouse", the Point de Vue, where we will all be staying
Eos Amaterasu: (was used as an RAF lookout during WW II)
Calvino Rabeni: Semi private rooms?
Eos Amaterasu: It's 10 minutes from the "meditation farmhouse" where the retreat itself will take place
Eos Amaterasu: on the more rural part of Malta
Eos Amaterasu: I think private rooms (I suppose I should know more definitely)
Eos Amaterasu: it helps to have a container for a retreat
Benedizione Vita: evening
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Benedizione
Eos Amaterasu: Any suggestions for approaching the upcoming 90 secs?
Calvino Rabeni: Consider some "belief" that seems "drop"-able ?
Calvino Rabeni: ...he said, sticking to basics :)
--BELL--
Benedizione Vita: phew
Benedizione Vita: stopping my hearbeat and breathing for 90 seconds sure is hard work
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza
Benedizione Vita: evening eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, Bene, Cal
Eos Amaterasu: one heartbeat / one breath?
Benedizione Vita: well I figure being probably doesn't need to breathe, so when I play as being I usually stop all body functions
Eos Amaterasu: !
Calvino Rabeni: nods to Eliza familiarly
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal has spent entirely too much time in SL today, but the pub was fun :)
Benedizione Vita: big crowd?
Eliza Madrigal: a bit... 12 of us at some point I think...
Eos Amaterasu: wow
Eos Amaterasu: global happy hour
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eos Amaterasu: Re stopping, stopping all body functions... how would you describe what you experience, Bene?
Benedizione Vita: I wonder if peoples behavior changes when they drink SL alcohol
Benedizione Vita: I bet it does
Benedizione Vita: well, eos, it usually damn well hurts when the heart stops beating, but I take this PaB thing so seriously I think it is worth the pain
Benedizione Vita: I have a defibrillator set up on a time to revive me at the end
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Sounds like that movie about people pushing the envelope of near-death experiences
Eliza Madrigal: how so Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: idea was to have an NDE, so flatlined, with your friends standing by to revive you
Eos Amaterasu: so you could report on the experience
Eos Amaterasu: (sounds familiar?)
Eliza Madrigal: ahhhh yes flatliners
Benedizione Vita: that is really scary
Eos Amaterasu: indeed!
Eliza Madrigal: it was a neat film for the time
Eos Amaterasu: "Altered States"
Eliza Madrigal: interesting to consider too... friends as supports while exploring the edges...
Benedizione Vita: please excuse me for a moment; I must juice some oranges
Eos Amaterasu: There is that intention of letting go while dropping intention, including that of coming back
Eos Amaterasu: but then the solid reference point of where you're coming from also dissolves
Eliza Madrigal: and friends?
Eos Amaterasu: which doesn't mean you're elsewhere - you're just in the big here
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: you're no longer in the way maybe
Eos Amaterasu: no longer holding yourself back, but also no longer holding a solid place vs which you "deviate" or go crazy from
Eliza Madrigal: no platform
Eos Amaterasu: no parachute
Eliza Madrigal: no net
Eos Amaterasu: no hard landing
Eliza Madrigal: other landings?
Eos Amaterasu: we always seem to rig those up for ourselves
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: so humor those too
Eos Amaterasu: in oneself and others
Eliza Madrigal: we may only judge when we think we're over 'there' or 'here'
Calvino Rabeni: It seems common to me lately, that when people "look inside" they encounter stuff they don't want to handle.
Eliza Madrigal: Ins't that par for the course.. one thinking that they are supposed to 'handle' those things?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Calvino Rabeni: That seems to leave a kind of thin zone of safety in which to hang out in.
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Steve!
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, they think something like - handle it, or it will handle ME.
Eos Amaterasu: there is a discipline of staying with the rough edges, or the scary places - quality of mercy also to that
Calvino Rabeni: But the strange other is within, not ME, therefore a fear comes up
Eos Amaterasu: and avoidance happens
Calvino Rabeni: "ME" turns into a flatland between the scary out there and the scary IN there
Eliza Madrigal: or maybe they feel a duty to others to keep it contained.. hehe
Benedizione Vita: yes, I used to have that one a lot Eliza! ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: so you remote yourself from the energy
Benedizione Vita: I think it is a good idea to let it out slowly
Calvino Rabeni: Try this experiment - sit with a couple of people, and ask them to tell everything that went really well during the last week.
Benedizione Vita: trying to let it out too fast can be not letting it out at all perhaps...
Calvino Rabeni: What happens?
Benedizione Vita: well, time for bene to say goodnight
Benedizione Vita: his eyelids are drooping
Eliza Madrigal: Even with the juice?
stevenaia Michinaga: night Bene
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: good nite, Bene!
Benedizione Vita: goodnight all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Night Bene
Eliza Madrigal: I would imagine everyone pours out stories, Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: What I observed is that they have a hard time sticking with the "goes well" stories and quickly switch to how badly things are going and stories of being unable
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Sounds like a crowd that needs 9 sec practice :)
Eliza Madrigal: but I do know what you encounter.. have friends I feel like that with... resist talking about the positives too much.. a kind of fear?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes they go into their fear
Eos Amaterasu: maybe there's less "you" in the good things
Eos Amaterasu: less about you
Calvino Rabeni: Does that seem true?
Eliza Madrigal: It seems true that there may be less self-consciousness...
Eliza Madrigal: but not that one can't share from that place
Eos Amaterasu: more what you're experiencing, especially with peak experiences
Eos Amaterasu: harder to describe
Calvino Rabeni: This is like saying - the ego is the "fall guy" who gets the blame whenever things go wrong, but not the credit when they go well?
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure it is about blame/credit at all
Eliza Madrigal: if one notices 'ego' in the way...noticing it seems like blame.. but really more exposing?
Eos Amaterasu: "it's all about me" is prominent when me is not doing well, or struggling
Calvino Rabeni: I'm just saying, the doer of good results and the doer of problematical results, may be the same doer, but the attention somehow attaches to where it is problematical
Eliza Madrigal: exposing as freeing... offering... letting go
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, yes perhaps
Eos Amaterasu: that's part of the obstacle to exploring being, perhaps:
Eos Amaterasu: we don't know what to do when we let go
Eos Amaterasu: we think we might go crazy, but that's coming from a holding tight view (if we let go it will explode, so press it down!)
Calvino Rabeni: When those friends "look at" themselves, it seems to induce the same uncomfortable type of self consciousness as when as a small child, they were caught with negative parental attention
Eliza Madrigal: hm, like reinforcing each others obstacle mentality as a way of bonding :)
Calvino Rabeni: maybe sometimes :)
Calvino Rabeni: That sounds somewhat positive as an interpretation
Eos Amaterasu: attaining common identification
Calvino Rabeni: Another positive interpretation is that they are asking for help
Calvino Rabeni: by presenting the things they struggle with
Eliza Madrigal nods
Calvino Rabeni: which implies a trust plus a desire to go past those conceived limitations
Eliza Madrigal: I've seen wonderful moments of midwifery... when someone felt things very densely and was pushed through...
Eliza Madrigal: no formulas, but those moments are special
Calvino Rabeni: It is a witness / help role - you could witness a birth of something new, or a stillbirth
Eliza Madrigal: Re staying with discomfort... I actually had a powerful dream along those lines recently.. a friend and a hug and I'd try to stop but they'd continue... until i had no barrier left. I felt it carried over beyond the dream...
Eliza Madrigal: just very simple... someone staying with another in presence.. maybe not doing anything
Eliza Madrigal: but yes a trust
Eos Amaterasu: holding space
Eliza Madrigal: yes, holding space
Eos Amaterasu: presence is both there, pointed, and open
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, I think I'm beginning to understand the resistance some have to meditation
Eliza Madrigal nods... yes sure...
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Seems I can better understand those who maybe don't hm... adventure in meditation... but just noticing breathing... short pauses... Seems harmless enough :)
Eliza Madrigal: Or maybe they see us and think it is a slippery slope... hahah
Calvino Rabeni: It can be a slippery slope for them
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, see you tomarrow :) nice jsut listening sometimes, thank you Eliza
Calvino Rabeni: Bye steve
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao, Steve
Eliza Madrigal: Night Steve, good to see you :)
Eos Amaterasu: fear of space
Eos Amaterasu: reach for the clicker
Calvino Rabeni: Fear of shadows that hold demonic forces
Eos Amaterasu: fear of looking at the shadow(s)
Eos Amaterasu: so they grow stronger by not looking
Calvino Rabeni: I think I'm pretty comfortable with those spaces, for the main part
Calvino Rabeni: but I was at a retreat this last weekend,and saw others have trouble with it
Calvino Rabeni: a friend kind of "spun out" for a while
Eliza Madrigal: Ah
Calvino Rabeni: I must have found it a bit disturbing
Calvino Rabeni: I felt there's not much I can do for them
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, but they were at a retreat, so obviously trying to enjoy support... face something?
Eos Amaterasu: I think just "holding space", just being there, transcends trying to accomplish anything
Calvino Rabeni: SO I felt chastened somewhat about having a glib attitude to recommend people "look within"
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes I can understand that... feel that too from time to time...
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, a certain number of people use the retreat environment apparently to struggle with their shadows in a dramatic way
Calvino Rabeni: But kind of chance getting a little lost while doing it
Eliza Madrigal: it may be another double edged sword... for instance SL is a great tool... amazing communities... but I still have to see when I'm using it as escape... takes time
Calvino Rabeni: True, sometimes meditation is an escape too
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and people
Eliza Madrigal: maybe anything :)
Eos Amaterasu: we're very clever and resourceful
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, they throw themselves in a dark pit, then rescue themselves
Eos Amaterasu: in a light pit
Eos Amaterasu: pity
Calvino Rabeni: And having returned from "the underworld" hopefully with a wisdom tale or two
Eos Amaterasu: people go thru stuff, so offering space comes with the care of them and that process
Eos Amaterasu: but care doesn't mean you can save or rescue them
Calvino Rabeni: I think, the best I can do is help them recognize whatever they learned by doing that
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Eliza Madrigal: mirror perhaps
Calvino Rabeni: We talk about our "edges" a lot.
Eos Amaterasu: Paradise Tennant: and you expand from the edginess of finite to something softer .. without boundaries..
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Something softer :) Nice
Eliza Madrigal: (text is laggy) May I share one more dream story?... seems to apply a bit...
Eos Amaterasu listens
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I was trying to feed this woman, a drug addict, and she kept breaking the jars that the food was in, that I'd taken lot of time with. I felt angry, but not 'at' her... found myself scheming "How can I trick her into eating this?" It was compassionate scheming... seemed a different ethic
Eliza Madrigal: there may be times for that too :)
Eos Amaterasu: trickster ethic
Calvino Rabeni: you were thinking for her
Eliza Madrigal: Well she was there... at the place where I was giving food...
Eliza Madrigal: going to get it...
Eliza Madrigal: but unable
Calvino Rabeni: In dreams, it's a challenge to reverse the perspective and see the "other" as part of oneself
Eliza Madrigal: It made me think of some of the book discussion Eos and I had, about the context dictating action, etc
Eliza Madrigal: and yes I certainly wondered whether I was dreaming of myself at some point :)
Calvino Rabeni: I don't recall the discussion, but the idea makes sense
Eliza Madrigal: figuratively, etc
Eos Amaterasu: dreams are a bit like being, in that way (other / me are fluid)
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: It came to mind thinking about the helplessness we can feel to 'rescue' others
Calvino Rabeni: The retreat I went to included a lot of people involved in service- specifically hospice and bereavment
Eos Amaterasu: the help comes packaged
Calvino Rabeni: and the of course, wrestled with those issues
Calvino Rabeni: which in a way are dream-like
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm, yes
Eliza Madrigal: packaged, Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: in jars
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: The "helpers" claimed the value of coming to terms with the possibility / inevitablilty of their own death
Eos Amaterasu: that seems also an aspect of tricksters, like animal tricksters
Calvino Rabeni: because if they hadn't, then seeing others was nothing but disturbing
Calvino Rabeni: and if they had, then the meeting was for those who needed the help, not about the helper
Calvino Rabeni: heh heh :)
Eliza Madrigal thinks of Stim saying, about the ego "The poor thing needs help"
Calvino Rabeni: right
Eos Amaterasu: perspective + mercy
Eliza Madrigal: ordinary mind actually, would be his phrasing...
Eliza Madrigal: Eye of Mercy, as Sophia would say perhaps :)
Calvino Rabeni: And actually it was a fun weekend, but no one seems to believe me :)
Eliza Madrigal is going to need help getting up tomorrow... hah
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: the trickster thing is not so much the edges, about one thing or another
Eos Amaterasu: but about the shiftiness of one thing turning into another
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm.. not sure I understand... would like to
Eos Amaterasu: the medium of trickery seems the bigger message
Eos Amaterasu: Trickster Fox shows you your mind
Eos Amaterasu: and how things are
Eliza Madrigal: I rarely feel anger... and felt it as very natural there.. very appropriate...
Eos Amaterasu: energy not in a jar
Calvino Rabeni: Haiti kind of loomed over the collective unconscious this last week
Calvino Rabeni: Eliza do you blog still?
Eliza Madrigal: I still write entries but I've taken it private for now
Calvino Rabeni: Like journaling then
Eliza Madrigal: trying to see if what I share is affected
Eliza Madrigal: basically I guess
Eliza Madrigal nods... yes have thought a bit about helplessness and distance .. about 'nearly' being able to touch/affect things...
Eliza Madrigal: watching haiti coverage... people right there but can't move the wreckage...
Eliza Madrigal: me seeing on tv
Eliza Madrigal: distance and yet there... and how connected we are
Eos Amaterasu: care and helplessness and complicity - big symbol
Calvino Rabeni: yes a symbol hard to see through to being
Eliza Madrigal nods... we are they, though... whatever it may look like on the surface
Eliza Madrigal: whatever it may seem like/sound like... at least thats my sense... that it matters to care
Calvino Rabeni: A friend of mine took on that challenge. I admired him for it.
Eliza Madrigal: which seems obvious...
Eliza Madrigal: but maybe I'm thinking about not shutting out our hearts
Calvino Rabeni: To look into the depth of another's suffering and not shut the heart
Calvino Rabeni: to let it break open
Eliza Madrigal pauses to think about these things...
Eos Amaterasu: Well, gentleman and lady, thank you for this - I must go
Eos Amaterasu: leaving it open....
Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Eos
Calvino Rabeni: YW Eos good night
Eos Amaterasu: Good night Eliza and Calvino!
Calvino Rabeni: :)
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Calvino.. a full and rich session
Eliza Madrigal: I'd better get to bed :)
Eliza Madrigal: These long SL days seem so indulgent !
Calvino Rabeni: I know what you mean!
Eliza Madrigal: Still, times and seasons for everything, right :)
Calvino Rabeni: I little multitasking to justify things, though :)
Calvino Rabeni: You won't see me around here much, come summer, in all probability :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, life changing?
Calvino Rabeni: Life is seasonal
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I mean, lifestyle :)
Calvino Rabeni: I don't try to level it out
Eliza Madrigal: Seems a good strategy, that
Calvino Rabeni: I'll send a message to PAB every now and then - "great view from this mountain top" or something :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Calvino Rabeni: Mobile phone missives :)
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, dinner calls!
Eliza Madrigal: and don't forget to twitter
Eliza Madrigal: Night :)
Calvino Rabeni: Got it all ready for pocket twitter :)
Calvino Rabeni: Bye ELiza
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Calvino
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