2011.12.19 19:00 - APAPB: Uninhabiting the Concept of Presence

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza, joined by Korel, Eden, Fox, Rhiannon, Stevie, and oO0Oo. The comments for this unique and in many ways delightful session, are by Eliza ...

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel :)
Korel Laloix: Heya'
Eliza Madrigal: Good to see you, over the cold?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: wb Korel :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden :))
Eliza Madrigal: wow, most festive

Eden Haiku: Hi Eliza:)
Korel Laloix: Silly laggy
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sam :)
Eden Haiku: oOOOo, so nice to see you :)
oO0Oo Resident: Osiyo Eden, Eliza, korel :)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to be together
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Eden Haiku: Osiyo Korel :)
Eliza Madrigal puts glue on korel's cushion for when she comes back
Eden Haiku: yep, she seems dissapeared for now ;(
Eliza Madrigal: I was hoping tonight to continue with the theme of APAPB...
oO0Oo Resident: yay
Eden Haiku: Appreciating thne presence of appearance yes :)

Eden Haiku: How did you experiment that today Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm.. napping :)
Eden Haiku: ha!
Eden Haiku: And you O?
Eden Haiku: It's appreciation of appearance as presentation of Being? APAPB ?
oO0Oo Resident: Not sure.. I think perhaps Wester's 0100 session brought me in proximity...

2011.12.19 01:00 - Colored glasses   <--1 am session

Eliza Madrigal: close :) Appreciate the Presence of appearance as a presentation by Being

Eden Haiku: Ah yes, read that: wonderful!
Eden Haiku: As a presentation by Being. Important nuance, yes:)
Eliza Madrigal: read that as well, so helpful
oO0Oo Resident: wb Korel
Eden Haiku: Wb Korel :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya... wow... very odd crash.'
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Samud
Eden Haiku: hello Rhiannon.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Rhiannon :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Eliza

Rhiannon Dragoone: So you've bgeen talking about appearance as the presentation of Being, huh?

Eliza Madrigal: We are sharing explorations of Appreciation, today...
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: A good topic; I don't think we stop and appreciate all that we have; especially in times of trouble
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hii Fox
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fox :)
oO0Oo Resident: Fox :)
Fox Monacular: Hello everyone:))!
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Eden
Rhiannon Dragoone thinks Eden is ignoring her.
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you Fox, been a while :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, there you are Fox.
oO0Oo Resident: [19:11] Eden Haiku: hello Rhiannon.
Fox Monacular: yeah, it's not easy for me to get to SL these days:)
Fox Monacular: good to see you all)))
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Rhiannon Dragoone: Good to see you Fox
Eliza Madrigal: we have much to appreciate, yes
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eliza Madrigal: pause approaching
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, hi Korel
Eden Haiku: hello Fox :)

Eliza Madrigal: *presence* may be a nice focus

--BELL--

Fox Monacular: presence, great, I'm obsessed with presence
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, it's Christmas, Fox; most of us are obsessed with presents.
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, you meant *presence* heh
Eden Haiku: So strange to see you in SL after seeing you in RL Fox. ..:)))
Rhiannon Dragoone: Eden Nightclub
Rhiannon Dragoone: oops, wrong window
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fox Monacular: :))
Eliza Madrigal: 'obsessed with presence' :))
Eden Haiku: Sorry, talking on the bell...oh my manners...
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: we roll...
Eliza Madrigal giggles
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Fox Monacular: presence, yes, but can be understood in 2 ways (at least) being present, or feeling others present (there)
Eliza Madrigal: I threw out presence as a focus because Pema describes that every word of the longer sentence is *enough* on its own... maybe for a lifetime of exploration
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, even the notion of presence comes under that rubric.

Eden Haiku: I'm being present, I feel you are too :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Rhiannon Dragoone: I mean, the presence of what? Is there anything other than presence.

oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/Z2ryoD

From Email re a thread on metaphor:

In fact, you could say that everything is Being, and when not
recognized as such, becomes hidden as a metaphor.

Something glorious appears, and hits us in an instant, in its naked thereness.
Then we call it a bird, thereby dressing it up in a concept, a kind of metaphor.
We shift from the Isness of the situation to the packaging.

Appreciating the Presence of Appearance as such is an exploration of what
it can be like to live without (i.e. see through the spell of) metaphors.

-Pema

Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, SL allows us to see the concept in a wholly different way.
Eden Haiku: Sometimes, I'm out of it. Not present. Does it happen to you Rhi?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, appreciate your posting that Sam

Eliza Madrigal: Eden what was your exploration today?
Eden Haiku: "It's naked thereness" seems very appropriate for Rhiannon :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: today humm...
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Eden Haiku: My Dad came up to see the Christmas tree. Had to discuss the holdidays comings and goings and celebratiuons with him.
Eden Haiku: He's a bit confused with calendar...
Eden Haiku: He's still undecipherable for me. Presentation 
Eden Haiku: of Being :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Eden, how touching
Eden Haiku: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Fox, would love for you to expound a bit on what you were sharing before, re ? being of presence and presence of being...
Eliza Madrigal: or do I mangle your musing with my phrasing?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Korel Laloix: Fun way to ask that... yes.... please say more as I really don't have a feeling for what you are getting at.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fox Monacular: sorry everyone, lag
Fox Monacular: just got those last messages
Eliza Madrigal: no worries :)
Fox Monacular: some of my work has to do with feeling of presence in the sense of feeling someone there
Fox Monacular: when there isn't anyone
Eden Haiku: how so?
Fox Monacular: like when you are alone at home and hear sounds

--BELL--

Eden Haiku: ah...
Fox Monacular: or when you're touched by somehting (like a doorknob) and for a moment really really feel that there was someone
Rhiannon Dragoone: Eden, naked thereness? lol. Sorry, it took mu so long to respond; I was ona Skype call.
Korel Laloix: YOu mean like ghosts?
Fox Monacular: like a spatial sense
Fox Monacular: aliveness of space

Eden Haiku: Ah Rhiannon, it's in the link for APAB : http://is.gd/Z2ryoD

Rhiannon Dragoone: And Eden, yes, sometimes I am not present; and soetimes present but not fully present
Fox Monacular: ghosts too, sure, but doesn't have to be that intense necessarily
Eden Haiku: Etheric presences Fox?
Eliza Madrigal: aliveness of space... could one say receptiveness as well?
Fox Monacular: and that space is always affective and intersubjective
Fox Monacular: I'm working on a paper about how we perceive the world, as moving bodies in space
Rhiannon Dragoone: Once you expand your awareness, through Hakulau, to sense energy, you can feel the presence of spirits. I was at a dojo, and many dead masters were there too; I wasn't the only one to see them.
Fox Monacular: so whenever there's amboguity, there's also alivenenss
Eden Haiku: A lively spaciousness :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Fox Monacular: I've beedn intensively studying phenomenology these last few months, so that's why:))
Fox Monacular: intentionality and intent as inherent to our relational way of being in the world

Korel Laloix: I dislike ambiguity... just not my style.

Fox Monacular: but it only makes sense as long as we are moving sensing bodies in a space (somewhere)
Eden Haiku: Had a dream about a friend in Paris the other night: felt her presence in a very intense way. Wanted to write her an email but didn't :(
Rhiannon Dragoone: I disagree with that, though, Fox. I don't then we need intent to relate to the world; sometimes, the relations is just there
Eliza Madrigal: ambiguity as openness to possibilities and options perhaps
Rhiannon Dragoone: Eden, I thought you should write her an email, after that.

Korel Laloix: But I don't like the idea that abiguity is required for aliveness.

Rhiannon Dragoone: Her presense was telling you something.
Eden Haiku: I know, I will :)))
Fox Monacular: :)))
Eliza Madrigal: :)Eden
Korel Laloix: I think it is the oppostie, when things are lined up, you sense things that are not the norm.
Rhiannon Dragoone: :) @ Eden
Fox Monacular: I mean, sure, that extends (without explaining) into mystical domain too
Fox Monacular: that too, Korel, I agree
Fox Monacular: that's the kind of experiments I'm trying to work out
Eden Haiku: She's a dear friend: she puts up with my absences :)
Fox Monacular: not isolating the phenomenon, but starting with messy dense environment, and then changing something small
Fox Monacular: (so that's, in a nutshell, what I was thinking about for the last 3 months:)))

Eden Haiku: What's rhe name of this tribe, in New Guinea maybe, where they tell each other dreams first thing in the morning?
Fox Monacular: that's my household, Eden:))))
Eliza Madrigal: OOOh yes I've heard about them...
Rhiannon Dragoone: It's a Polynesian tribe, not sure where it is,or their name, but they believe that we dream a whole other life.
Eden Haiku: Nice Fox :)
Eliza Madrigal: dream culture
Rhiannon Dragoone: Dreams are just as real
Rhiannon Dragoone: As waking life

Eden Haiku: I feel it is sometimes.
Korel Laloix: I have probably remembered five dreams in my life... wish I could remember more.
Eden Haiku: Presentation of Being in other worlds :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Dreams have real components and some of those are from remote viewing
Rhiannon Dragoone: The Old Testament said that God communicates to us in dreams.
Eden Haiku: Joseph...
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, Pharoh's dreams.
Eden Haiku: Do tell us about the 5 dreams Korel !
Korel Laloix: All nightmares.
Eden Haiku: oh :((
Korel Laloix: Mostly about being isolated.
Rhiannon Dragoone: When I was a little girl, I had heard about nightmares, but hadn't had one. My first was of an enormous horse coming to get me--the Night Mare.
Fox Monacular: wow
Eden Haiku: wow!
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, still remembr it like I had had it yesterday.
Eden Haiku: Do tell us Rhi!
Rhiannon Dragoone: I just did; that was the dream. The Night Mare coming to get me.
Rhiannon Dragoone: I woke up really scared.
Eden Haiku: Ah! A dark mare?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Actually, I think it was pale white.
Eliza Madrigal: ghostly :)
Eden Haiku: Ah, yes, I see...
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, or perhaps like the horse the pale rider will be on...
Eliza Madrigal: I used to hold a lot of anger with my mom... and one day she shared that she hadn't remembered a dream since childhood... somehow that brought up deep sadness realizing she had never 'rested' perhaps...
Korel Laloix: Sorta Revelationish.
Eliza Madrigal: that there was much not integrated perhaps...
Eliza Madrigal: so it was hard for her to be 'present'

Eden Haiku: I had a recurring dream when I was about 10, of rowing with my family in Louisiana...

Rhiannon Dragoone: Eliza, yeah; it's amazing how we can see clearer what our parents were going through when we're adults. I used to hate my mother, but I now realize she was as scared of my father as I was.

Korel Laloix: I know I dream... I just think I don't remember them as a defense mechanism.
Eliza Madrigal nods possibly Korel...
Eliza Madrigal: bit by bit :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Stevenaia!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevenaia :)
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eden Haiku: Good night Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: hiya
Fox Monacular: hi steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Eliza Madrigal: rowing, Eden?
stevenaia Michinaga: awww, people rezzing slowly tonight

--BELL--

Eden Haiku: In these "bayous" you know?
Eliza Madrigal: swamp lands?
Eden Haiku: Sorry, talked on the bell again, almost forgot the protocol :)
oO0Oo Resident: Hi stevenaia
Eliza Madrigal: gentle guide :)
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Eliza Madrigal: *invitation* :)
Eden Haiku: Yes, swamps. I didn,t know anything about them as a child, learnt about them later. But "saw" them in dreams.
Eliza Madrigal: oooo
Rhiannon Dragoone: boxy, where are you? I see you on my radar but not here
Eliza Madrigal: did something happen in the dream Eden, or it was just the setting that came up again and again?
stevenaia Michinaga: boxy is 86 lindin meters west
Eden Haiku: Only the setting yes :)

Eliza Madrigal: Stevie we've been appreciating presence of beings dreamings :)

Eden Haiku: Presentation of Being at the back of the Oratory, a worship place in Montreal I used to go with my grandmother.
Fox Monacular: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: been there too :)
Eden Haiku: :)))

Eden Haiku: Did you like the crypt will the red candles Steve? I still remember the smell.
Fox Monacular: i pass by it every morning dropping my daughter off at daycare
stevenaia Michinaga: all the people on their knees moving up the steps struck me most
Eliza Madrigal: oh my
stevenaia Michinaga: many steps

Eden Haiku: Yep! Did go on my knees once, on a LSD trip with a friend :))
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: (((((((Eden))))))
Eden Haiku: years later :)
Eden Haiku: My greand mother would have been appalled :)
Eliza Madrigal: I hope so!
Eliza Madrigal giggles
stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.aviewoncities.com/montrea...restjoseph.htm
Rhiannon Dragoone: My grandmother was a hippie; I don't think there was a drug she didn't like
Eliza Madrigal: ty Stevie
stevenaia Michinaga: "Visitors must climb more than 280 steps to get to the basilica's main entrance. However, there is a separate staircase of 99 steps which is set aside for pilgrims who wish to climb on their knees."

Eliza Madrigal: my goodness, many many steps...
Eden Haiku: My father's Dad was healed from the saint there when he was a kid...He sufferd from strabism...
Fox Monacular: :)))))) Eden!
Eden Haiku: Crooked yes you know :)
Korel Laloix: Looks a lovely place.
oO0Oo Resident: Korel :)
Eden Haiku: A good place to have a LSD trip Korel: overlooking Blue Bonnets (horse races). Gives you a lucky strike :)
Korel Laloix: I do love the feel of some large Churches.
Korel Laloix: A real presence there.
Eden Haiku: Yes, me too :)
Eliza Madrigal: ... stained glass, grandeur
oO0Oo Resident: Starting sound like a place for a meetup.. tripping up the 99 steps
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eden Haiku: :)))
stevenaia Michinaga: I;m sure there is much meditation taking place on those steps

Rhiannon Dragoone: 99 steps? Sounds like a Hitchcock movie.
Korel Laloix: Sounds cold though... Can we fin a similare place on the equator?
Korel Laloix: Or a really long AA meeting.
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
oO0Oo Resident: lol

Eden Haiku: Yes, Steve, I have seen pilgrims very moving on these steps.
Rhiannon Dragoone doesn't like cold places to meditate; her chattering teeth tends to be distraacting
Fox Monacular: sorry everyone, i need to go now... was wonderful being here with you all
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, Fox!
Eliza Madrigal: so nice to see you Fox..
Eden Haiku: Yes, nice seeinsg you Fox :)
Eliza Madrigal: *seeing
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, I should be off too.
stevenaia Michinaga: night Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, steve
Eliza Madrigal: Night, Rhi :) Be well and happy :)
Eden Haiku: Also have to go. Thanks Eliza for this lovely presentation of Being.

--BELL--

oO0Oo Resident: Bye Fox :) Rhi :)
Eden Haiku: Good night everyone :))
stevenaia Michinaga: night Eden
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, ty, Eliza
Rhiannon Dragoone: bye, Samud
Korel Laloix: My problem with trying to meditate when cold is that I find I cna't think about good things I am plotting how to murder people for the warm clothes and not get caught.
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs
Eliza Madrigal: Night Eden ((((( )))))
Rhiannon Dragoone: me, too, Korel. lol
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Taelyer
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Eliza Madrigal: cold group meditation is done under blankets and snuggled with friends
Eliza Madrigal: or so I hear from the Malta crew :)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: can;t imagine a cold Malta
Eliza Madrigal: they were so cold... even so, eating ice cream mountaintop
Korel Laloix: As long as there is hotchocolate involved and sleeping bags, I should be OK>
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
oO0Oo Resident: {for the log: Bye Eden :) good to see you]
Eliza Madrigal: btw....

Eliza Madrigal: I happened upon an updated Chronicles tonight...
Eliza Madrigal: Adams interviewed Aphrodite...
stevenaia Michinaga: recently?
stevenaia Michinaga: nice
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful pictures... yes, one sec...
Korel Laloix: I get really cranky when cold, it is not a pretty sight.

Eliza Madrigal: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chronicles/The_Chapter_25:_Fall_2011/d._Aphrodite_Macbain

stevenaia Michinaga: crankie is such an intense state, you jut can;t help yourself when it takes you
Eliza Madrigal: :)
oO0Oo Resident: ty Eliza.. looking ::makes mental note... Korel ~ hot chocolate::
Korel Laloix: A lot of poeple that know me know that.
Eliza Madrigal: emergency hot chocolate at all times for korel in case temp drops when we all go to Montreal
Korel Laloix: Drops below 70
oO0Oo Resident: [do not buy at famous widespread coffee chain]
Korel Laloix: Crashing
stevenaia Michinaga: more like Minus 40
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: once when I was there
Eliza Madrigal: all about the company for me :)
Korel Laloix: OK, you just convinced me not to come.
Eliza Madrigal: =p~
Eliza Madrigal: ((((Korel)))))
stevenaia Michinaga: you go there in the summer
Eliza Madrigal: you're just afraid of my hugs
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: with Sam there with chocolate, blankets...
Eliza Madrigal: maybe portable sun lamp...
stevenaia Michinaga: I'm off to read the chronical, thanks ELiza
stevenaia Michinaga: night all
Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Stevie
oO0Oo Resident: Night Stevenaia
Eliza Madrigal: aw poofed once more
Eliza Madrigal: nice to drop structure when seems appropriate... fun session

oO0Oo Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci
Lucinda Lavender: HI:)

Eliza Madrigal: you're on late
Eliza Madrigal: how are holiday festivities and such?
Lucinda Lavender: everything is calming down
Lucinda Lavender: concert done etc
Eliza Madrigal: we just finished a session on APAPB... turned out dreamy :) 
Lucinda Lavender: dreamy yes...
Lucinda Lavender: can you say more? [
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, well Fox was here tonight...
Eliza Madrigal: have a seat?
Samúð (oo0oo): Hi Luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: HI Sam
Eliza Madrigal: and we were discussing *presence*
Samúð (oo0oo): Being present seems to invite uninhabiting the concept of presence.. senses come to the fore for me
Eliza Madrigal: I love that phrasing Sam
Eliza Madrigal: 'uninhabiting the concept of presence'.. but hm... does that mean not talking 'about'?
Lucinda Lavender: ...interesting
Samúð (oo0oo): no... I mean
Samúð (oo0oo): there is a practice or state of being present.. and there is talking about that... and I imagine one can be present in talking about presence too..
Eliza Madrigal: so not rejecting one in favor of other... sharing need not diminish...

Samúð (oo0oo): Well.. I like the explorations.. that call to being..
Samúð (oo0oo): and the vocabulary for talking about that...
Samúð (oo0oo):that's interesting too

Eliza Madrigal: agree so much...
Eliza Madrigal: why beginning at the end of that sentence, with Being, makes such sense...
Eliza Madrigal: invitation rather than appreciation as a doing or add on
Samúð (oo0oo): <-- what she said lol
Eliza Madrigal: invitation to presence, rest, from which appreciation then might be natural expression

Eliza Madrigal hopes Luci is getting to rest :)
Lucinda Lavender: yes...just after coming in here...my husband came to talk about menus for christmaseve/day/then boxing day

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Samúð (oo0oo): :)
Lucinda Lavender: I have come to keep a notebook pf the lists of past years

--BELL--

Lucinda Lavender: three eating days
Lucinda Lavender: sorry I have to go...:) will be resting tomorrow too:)

Eliza Madrigal: Night Luci
Samúð (oo0oo): Nice to see ya just for a little while Luci.. Nice dress btw
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you too O

Samúð (oo0oo): Likewise Eliza.. tc :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves :) and poufs :)
Eliza Madrigal: OOps... missed Paradise 

Eliza Madrigal: (retroactively smiles and waves)
Samúð (oo0oo): para.. come back!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: probably just rezzed here on the way to a music event
Samúð (oo0oo) wormholes, waves, smiles, hugs, sessions, APAPBs and sips a green tea
Eliza Madrigal waves