The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Akazilong Resident, Alf Kelberry, Korel Laloix, Naturespaw Bestijl, Wol Euler and myself

Wol and work:

Zen Arado: Hi Wol :)
Wol Euler: good morning, zen. happy boxing day
Zen Arado: you too :)
Wol Euler: I hope you are having a pleasant holiday?
Zen Arado: it's ok
Zen Arado: how is Canada?
Wol Euler: warm :( raining!
Wol Euler: it's at least 20°C too warm for the season
Zen Arado: it's mild here too
Zen Arado: wow
Wol Euler: this isn't unprecedented, but it is very unusual
Wol Euler: and disappointing
Zen Arado: 14 C here though
Zen Arado: but windy
Zen Arado: a bit bored today
Wol Euler: sorry to hear that
Zen Arado: stayed up until 2 am
Zen Arado: then couldn't sleep
Wol Euler: :(
Zen Arado: funny that
Zen Arado: longer I stay up the less I can sleep
Wol Euler: heh, funny how that works
Wol Euler: like one becomes too tired for sleeping
Zen Arado: too ...wound up or soemthing
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: greatto have a break when you are working
Zen Arado: but when you are retired not the same
Wol Euler: yes, I can see that
Wol Euler: do you miss your routine?
Zen Arado: I can' wait or them all to get back to work
Zen Arado: maybe I do
Wol Euler smiles
Wol Euler: I'll admit that there are aspects of my routine that I miss here
Zen Arado: I feel kind of lethargic or something at this time of year
Zen Arado: I haveplentyof things to do
Zen Arado: but I don't fel like doing them

Naturespaw's Coeur d'Or (Heart of Gold):

Zen Arado: I'm tring touse voice typing
Wol Euler: just a sec
Zen Arado: Hi Naturespaw:)
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hello :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: Merry Christmas, both of you :)
Zen Arado: you too :)
Zen Arado: do they have Boxin Day in the USA?
Zen Arado: I thouht the all wnt bac to work
Zen Arado: heart of gold :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: (Lol sorry not sure who that q is directed to)
Zen Arado: and I was searching for one :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hehe a friend made this group and I thought the title sounds really neat so, I wear it all the time :P
Zen Arado: Hi Alf
Naturespaw Bestijl: Oh, did you decide on a theme for your gallery, Zen?
Alfred Kelberry: wow-wee! woly girl! :)
Zen Arado: I assumed you were American Naturespaw
Alfred Kelberry: hi, folks :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hey Boxy
Zen Arado: yes I used your suggestion
Zen Arado: :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: past- present? Ah, def want to see it when it's up then :)
Alfred Kelberry: *strokes woly's hair*
Zen Arado: think Woly afk a sec
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: it's up now
Zen Arado: look at my picks
Alfred Kelberry: she's busy partying all day :)
Zen Arado: the one at Gualdo
Naturespaw Bestijl: Ah.. ok^_^
Alfred Kelberry: kori girl :)

French novels:

Zen Arado: I'm reading a French novel atm
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hey korel!
Alfred Kelberry: zen, in french?
Wol Euler: back
Zen Arado: yes but it has a translation alongside
Zen Arado: Hi Korel :)
Alfred Kelberry: *stops stroking woly's hair* :)
Wol Euler: hello korel, nature, boxy
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Naturespaw Bestijl: Welcome back wol!
Wol Euler: happy boxing day, I hope everyone is happy and well
Alfred Kelberry: oh yes, boxing day
Zen Arado: well I'm reading two actually but better not mention other one :)
Zen Arado: no I discovered it by accident looking for one to learn French
Wol Euler: I have to go, it looks like my father has a thrombus on his leg so we're going to take him to a clinic to check
Wol Euler: take care, be happy
Zen Arado: oh dear
Wol Euler: good health and much love to all
Naturespaw Bestijl: hope he's alright!!
Naturespaw Bestijl: Do take care wol
Zen Arado: hope it isn't serious
Zen Arado: byee
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, woly
Wol Euler: it's a surface vein, not immediately life-threatening; but thrombosis is never good news
Zen Arado: no
Wol Euler: bye for now
Naturespaw Bestijl nods was reading about them the other day
Alfred Kelberry: ouch, good luck there, woly
Naturespaw Bestijl: What's the book about, zen?
Zen Arado: it is the second of two
Zen Arado: first one was called La Vie Celebataire (the single life)
Zen Arado: and this one follows on and is called 'L'Homme de mes reves (the man of my dreams)
Alfred Kelberry: kori likes being clustered :)
Zen Arado: it is about a young woman looking for a man
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hehe it sounds sweet.
Naturespaw Bestijl: (And you're not alone in not knowing french korel)
Zen Arado: it is an easier way to learn
Alfred Kelberry: zen, would you rather read a french novel than watch a french movie?
Zen Arado: only need beginner's French
Zen Arado: well I wouldn't understand a French movie
Zen Arado: unless subtitled
Zen Arado: speech is more difficult
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hmm
Naturespaw Bestijl: songs are a good way to learn too I think
Zen Arado: would only get parts
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: French is a beautiful language
Alfred Kelberry: i find movies very helpful in learning languages and also cultural quirks
Alfred Kelberry: kori, you're biased :)
Zen Arado: I have a French woman friend in SL
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hehe I like it in a male voice.. esp if they're reading poems!
Zen Arado: now that is a great way to learn French
Zen Arado: :)

Akazilong arrives and talks about languages he has mastered:

Zen Arado: Hi Akazilong
akazilong Resident: hi zen
Zen Arado: we haven't met?
Zen Arado: have you been here before?
akazilong Resident: nope, first time in pavillion
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hi Akazilong! Welcome to pab :)
Alfred Kelberry: hi aka :)
Zen Arado: we post the conversation on a Wiki
Zen Arado: is it alright to use your contribution?
akazilong Resident: no problem
Zen Arado: great :)
Zen Arado: I've given you a notecrd to explain what we do
akazilong Resident: i like to hear
Zen Arado: we are just chatting atm
Zen Arado: about learning languages
akazilong Resident: I speak many languages
Zen Arado: maybe I will start Spanish the same way
Alfred Kelberry: aka, the topic was ways of learning languages. zen says that having a french friend helps :)
Zen Arado: great
Zen Arado: Europeans often can
Alfred Kelberry: aka, oh lovely! which ones?
akazilong Resident: german, english, russian, french (very little), japanese and chinese
Alfred Kelberry: cool
Zen Arado: gosh
Alfred Kelberry: and your mother tongue is?
Zen Arado: makes me feel so monolingual
Alfred Kelberry: zen :)
akazilong Resident: very good question, my thoughts and dreams are in english, but originally german long time ago
Alfred Kelberry: ah, how interesting
Zen Arado: ah
Zen Arado: have you been to the China legends place?
akazilong Resident: here on SL? yes, just a little, in RL more often
Naturespaw Bestijl: China legends?
Alfred Kelberry: aka, what language was the toughest to learn for you?
Zen Arado: Legend of China I think it is
akazilong Resident: japanese. the grammar is very difficult
akazilong Resident: after that I learned chinese, much easier
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i suppose so
Naturespaw Bestijl: *grinz* Japanese is so similar to Chinese
Alfred Kelberry: i wouldn't say that
akazilong Resident: haha, totally different
Alfred Kelberry: culturaly maybe, but not grammatically
Zen Arado: Chinese uses tones a lot
Zen Arado: same word means different things with different intonation
akazilong Resident: example: "I speak Japanese/Chinese" : Chinese: Wo shuo han yu, Japanese: Watashi wa nihongo o hanashi masu"
Zen Arado: like 'ma'
Naturespaw Bestijl: Not like that with Japanese?
Zen Arado: can be mother or horse and something else
Naturespaw Bestijl: Oh yea...
Zen Arado: forget
akazilong Resident: japenese have 2 tones, Mandarin has 4, Cantonese has 9
Zen Arado: ah interesting
Alfred Kelberry: aka, how do you switch the language context?
akazilong Resident: Yeah the old "ma"...
Zen Arado: I have a Chinese fiend who is an acupuncturist
akazilong Resident: having many chinese friends helps learning
Zen Arado: friend*
Naturespaw Bestijl: That is awesome!
akazilong Resident: I lived in China 5 years, that helped too
Naturespaw Bestijl: Aka, do you find that when you're using one language, you also "think" in that language?
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that's the best practice
Naturespaw Bestijl: Or do you have to translate it in your head to something more familiar?
akazilong Resident: after long practice, it is more thinking/speaking same. Sometimes I say the right things without even thining about
akazilong Resident: then I find myself asking: what did i just say? :)
Zen Arado: yeh I have heard that

Enrichment of languages:

Zen Arado: Hi Observerm
Alfred Kelberry: aka, i assume english was the first you learned? what was the second and why?
Zen Arado: don't you get confused between languages?
Zen Arado: I mix si in French with SI in Spanish for example
akazilong Resident: Russian at school, there was a pilot program, i liked to participate in
akazilong Resident: yes, sometimes i speak one language to people that dont understand it
Zen Arado: maybe it improves how we think
Zen Arado: if we think in words
Zen Arado: it is enriching anyway I think
Alfred Kelberry: certainly a good thing, if you ask me, zen :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: agree!
akazilong Resident: it is, also it helps learning other cultures, other thinking too
Zen Arado: so much culture is in a language too
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: I should learn Irish gaelic
Zen Arado: since I am Irish
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i think the cultural aspect is the most intriguing (on top of being able to converse to a much broader audience)
akazilong Resident: also the teacher often brings in cultural refences
akazilong Resident: some phrases can only be understood in cultural refences
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: I heard a roadio prog last week about etymology
akazilong Resident: for example "ma shang", the meaning is to do something immediately, but translated it means "mounting a horse"
Naturespaw Bestijl: LOL!!!
Zen Arado: it is fascinating where words come from
Naturespaw Bestijl: Good example, aka
Zen Arado: ho yes
Naturespaw Bestijl: etymology?
akazilong Resident: in the old warriors day, the warrior would mount the horse to go to battle immediately
Zen Arado: study of words
Zen Arado: I can chant a little Japanese :)
akazilong Resident: oh, thats good
Zen Arado: from Zen practice
Alfred Kelberry: or you can say "get your ass in gear" :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hehehe
Zen Arado: :)
akazilong Resident: lol
Naturespaw Bestijl: Is Zen big, in Ireland?

A little etymology:

Zen Arado: you know where the expression 'Hey Man' comes from?
Alfred Kelberry: do tell
Zen Arado: it's growing Naturespaw
Zen Arado: well..slaves in USA were called 'boy'
Zen Arado: whe they were freed some still called them 'boy' which they didn't like
Zen Arado: so they started calling each other 'man'
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: and that spread to hippie culture
Alfred Kelberry: interesting
Naturespaw Bestijl: Wicked!!
Naturespaw Bestijl: where did "dude" come from?
Zen Arado: don't know
Zen Arado: but probably another intersting story
Alfred Kelberry: nature, i suggest http://www.etymonline.com/
Zen Arado: mayby from howdy Dooody?
Alfred Kelberry: very good source
Naturespaw Bestijl: ty boxy
Zen Arado: ty Alf
Zen Arado: will consult
Zen Arado: lots from Latin
akazilong Resident: i just read about dude: "One of the earliest books to use the word was The Home and Farm Manual, written by Jonathan Periam in 1883. In that work, Periam used the term "dude" several times to denote an ill-bred and ignorant, but ostentatious, man from the city. The term was also used as a job description such as "bush hook dude" [6] as a position on a railroad in the 1880s."
Naturespaw Bestijl: hmmm
Zen Arado: interesting
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Naturespaw Bestijl: thanks^^
Zen Arado: lots from word for salt
akazilong Resident: np
Zen Arado: salary etc
Zen Arado: salsa
Zen Arado: celery

Zen Arado: cellar ( where salt was stored)
akazilong Resident: i need to go, this is a great group and place, just landmarked it
Naturespaw Bestijl: Thanks for joining us today, Aka!
Zen Arado: great Aka :)
akazilong Resident: see you all again
Zen Arado: hope so :)
Zen Arado: bye
akazilong Resident: bye
Alfred Kelberry: bye :)
Alfred Kelberry: i wonder when can you confidently say that you do speak a language?
Zen Arado: good questin Alf
Zen Arado: and such a dufference between being able to read it and speak it
Zen Arado: think you need to live in another country
Zen Arado: like Wol in Germany
Alfred Kelberry: yes, that was my thinking too
Zen Arado: you are forced to speak it then
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hmm yes full immersion
Zen Arado: though English in Spain get away with not learning Spanish
Alfred Kelberry: people usually modest though about their skills. unless it's on resume :)
Zen Arado: so many Spaniards speak English for tourists
Alfred Kelberry: if someone says he speaks a language, i assume a fluent level of proficiency
Naturespaw Bestijl: Hmmm being modest about a language r languages is useful too in business..
Zen Arado: well I wouldn't boast too much about my French :)
Zen Arado: it's funny how we expect peole in SL to speak English
Alfred Kelberry: or anywhere :)
Zen Arado: yeh that too :)
Alfred Kelberry: it is not a baseless expectation though. english is an international language.
Zen Arado: guess I better go
Zen Arado: have to come back for Original face meeting in 2 hours
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, zen
Alfred Kelberry: i'll scoot as well
Zen Arado: thanks to all for coming :)
Zen Arado: byee
Naturespaw Bestijl: Me too. Thanks for the meeting!
Alfred Kelberry: bye folks