The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

DR42 Resident: hi
DR42 Resident: hi druth
druth Vlodovic: hey marjorie
druth Vlodovic: are you the guardian today?
DR42 Resident: Nope.

--BELL--

 
DR42 Resident: ηαмαѕтє
Bruce Mowbray: Namaste! and I am still rezzing.
druth Vlodovic: hi bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, druth and Maude!
Bruce Mowbray wonders why it's taking so long to rez.
DR42 Resident: you look fine to me...
druth Vlodovic: lazy day
druth Vlodovic: good chance to relax
Bruce Mowbray: All I can see of myself is an orange cloud....
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh, yes! relax. 
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, san!
DR42 Resident: Hi San
Bruce Mowbray: I'm going to relog -- see if that helps.
Bruce Mowbray: brb.
Santoshima Resident: hello
Santoshima Resident: how're you Maude?
druth Vlodovic: hi san
DR42 Resident: OK, quiet weekend.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! THERE I am!
Santoshima Resident: nice, hi Druth, and Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: (but now druth is a cloud... oh dear).

druth Vlodovic: really?
druth Vlodovic: darn
Bruce Mowbray: Is the SL program getting "creative" with us?
Bruce Mowbray: I think it's just my connection, druth.
Bruce Mowbray: The others can probably see you just fine.
Santoshima Resident: nope, cloud
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
Bruce Mowbray: well, relogging seems to have helped me.
druth Vlodovic: I must be having trouble holding it together
Santoshima Resident: it's an intact cloud
druth Vlodovic: :)
DR42 Resident: Went from fine to a cloud when bruce came back
Bruce Mowbray: :))
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh, so, maybe if I re-relogged, . . .
DR42 Resident: Being a cloud is fine with me.
Santoshima Resident: sure
Bruce Mowbray: You're not a cloud, Maude, only druth.

Bruce Mowbray: So, what could make something like a Sunday school lesson about a 2,000 year-old text "creative"?
Bruce Mowbray: I want to present it creatively.
druth Vlodovic: what is the text
Bruce Mowbray: The Gospel of John.
Santoshima Resident: the whole text?
Bruce Mowbray: I think there has to be some stepping outside the box....
Santoshima Resident: who is the audience?
DR42 Resident: Have people act out various parts, by what they think the people should do, then talk about what the bible actually says.
Bruce Mowbray: outside the "normal" and accepted ways of viewing the material....
Santoshima Resident: why are they learning this text?
Bruce Mowbray: What the "Bible actually says" depends on the lenses through which one views it, doesn't it?
DR42 Resident: That's one of the points...
DR42 Resident: John 13:36
Bruce Mowbray: They are not really "learning" it. This is what I chose to present, when it came my turn to sign up to teach two lessons (for the class).
Santoshima Resident: i see
druth Vlodovic: careful of being too "innovative" about teaching kids old knowledge
Bruce Mowbray: These are not kids.
Bruce Mowbray: Most of them are older than I am.
Bruce Mowbray: (and I am almost 71).
Santoshima Resident: seasoned
druth Vlodovic: oops
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Bruce Mowbray: well done!
Bruce Mowbray: I do want to stress the importance of seeing our own lenses....
Bruce Mowbray: and how our "lenses" might alter what we see.
Bruce Mowbray: If I might give a rather esoteric example?
Bruce Mowbray: Last Sunday, we studied Bonhoffer...
Bruce Mowbray: and I read his "The Price of Discipleship" . . .
Bruce Mowbray: He was executed by the Nazis, btw...
Bruce Mowbray: only a few weeks before the German surrender...
Bruce Mowbray: so, he's thought of as a Christian martyr
Bruce Mowbray: who walked his talk, so to speak.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: But I think he got it "wrong" with the Gospel of John. . .
Bruce Mowbray: (waits).
DR42 Resident: The coffee shop I go to is named Bonhoeffer's, after the Lutheran pastor. A church runs it to raise money. http://www.Bonhoefferscafe.com

[only saw what you wrote later, Maude, when I edited this.  THANKS for the link!]

Bruce Mowbray: Actually, I don't think that Bonhoffer got it "wrong" -- only that he was more or less "locked" into his lens ...
Bruce Mowbray: that the "lens" of the Church was "the right way" to see scripture.
druth Vlodovic: what was his view?
Santoshima Resident: ^ see above
druth Vlodovic: sry :/
Santoshima Resident: np :)
Bruce Mowbray: So, he makes a BIG DEAL about the importance of Baptism and Eucharist (Communion) and the Lord's Prayer -- but NONE of those happen in John's Gospel.
Bruce Mowbray: He (Bonhoffer) sees the text through the lens of the Church. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and its institutionalized rituals.
Bruce Mowbray: but I feel - and I do NOT insist that anyone else feel this way -- that John is actually criticizing the early churches...
Bruce Mowbray: for having fetishized the so-called sacraments and prayers.
Bruce Mowbray: so, John is giving another "lens" -- a more mystical one...
Bruce Mowbray: anyway, I'd like to present several approaches (lenses) to scripture... and see how the class responds to those.
Bruce Mowbray: I have only 20 minutes each Sunday-
Bruce Mowbray: and only two Sundays,
Bruce Mowbray: so I'll not be able to present a whole lot.
druth Vlodovic: maybe tell them "this is one view to consider"
Bruce Mowbray: Now, what would be required to make ANYTHING a creative presentation -- not just my lessons?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, this is one of an infinity of possible views to consider...
Bruce Mowbray: excellent point, druth.
druth Vlodovic: I was more thinking that presenting too much makes for sound-bites instead of consideration
Bruce Mowbray: John has probably been given a larger variety of interpretations than any other gospel.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: kk, I need to consider how to condense without dis-honoring the material (the text).
Bruce Mowbray: The most important thing for me is to honor the text.
Bruce Mowbray: Does creativity touch deeper roots?
Bruce Mowbray: Is it required that some deeper connections be made?
Bruce Mowbray: not just that we do something differently and uniquely?
DR42 Resident: Why cover all of John? Why not a smaller part?
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes. There is no way I could cover all of it.
Bruce Mowbray: That would take many years, I think, and even then . . .
Bruce Mowbray: I will probably focus on just a few things....
Bruce Mowbray: The assignment is "The Uniquenesses of John's Gospel"
Bruce Mowbray: so, I will present a few pages of differences - and different types of differences.
druth Vlodovic: a difficulty with honouring the text is that it is a translation (correct me if I'm wrong) and from a culture that has changed a lot and unlikely not the native one of the audience
Bruce Mowbray: but I have no expectation of being able to cover all of that.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, translations are problematic, sometimes - and cultural/sociological differences.
Bruce Mowbray: I'm interested in the original contexts -- and responses of the first communities to "hearing" the original text.
DR42 Resident: What about picking, say, John 15, and talk to it in depth.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, good suggestion. I would rather take the ninth chapter...
Bruce Mowbray: because I think it is a sort of micro-text of the entire gospel....
Bruce Mowbray: and it also demonstrates many of the uniquenesses of the gospel - when contrasted with the synoptics...
Bruce Mowbray: It will be a challenge to bring all of this material together, but I'm up for it and feeling good about it.
Bruce Mowbray: What I was trying to get at here, though, was whether John's Gospel is an example of creativity.
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that it is, and a profound one.
Bruce Mowbray: (not because I "believe" whatever it says, but because I am so impressed with its literary style(s).
DR42 Resident: Or the style of those who translated it?
Bruce Mowbray: sry, I didn't really mean "styles" -- I meant to type "literary devices."
Bruce Mowbray: metaphor, allegory, repetition, etc.
Santoshima Resident: please excuse me ~ need to go ~ best wishes for the talk, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, San!

--BELL--

DR42 Resident: druth, you rezzed!
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! There you are!
druth Vlodovic: I was using a mist avatar,
druth Vlodovic: but by the time I tricked him it seemed flat lol
DR42 Resident: That is fine...

druth Vlodovic: so John is a good storyteller, or is he a good teacher?
Bruce Mowbray: I took photos of both appearances. . . and will post them on the wiki.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. Well, he teaches through his stories....
Bruce Mowbray: but that's really a GOOD question, druth.
Bruce Mowbray: I'd like to ask the class that one!
Bruce Mowbray: There are points where I feel that John gets carried away with telling his stories...
Bruce Mowbray: (or was that the folks who rewrote the text afterwards?)
Bruce Mowbray: John was certainly an excellent story-teller, in my humble opinion.
DR42 Resident: I worry that many of the texts people accept as the absolute literal text are tainted by the translators.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, one cannot interpret John both literally and intelligently.
Bruce Mowbray: The text itself tells us that!
Bruce Mowbray: and that's part of the fun in sorting out John's uniquenesses from the other gospels.
druth Vlodovic: ??
Bruce Mowbray: The text has the disciples pleading with Jesus to PLEASE STOP TALKING IN FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE.....
Bruce Mowbray: stop using all these metaphors, dude!
Bruce Mowbray: We can't understand your meanings!
druth Vlodovic: I've heard that done with other people
Bruce Mowbray: "other people," druth?
druth Vlodovic: they have experiences or understandings that are delicate or hard to relate
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes.
druth Vlodovic: so they get accused of obfuscating
Bruce Mowbray: I agree.
Bruce Mowbray: In fact, sometimes i find it amazing that humans can connect with each other at all.
Bruce Mowbray: given the varieties of their individual experience.
Bruce Mowbray: and the varieties of interpretation(s) of those experiences.
Bruce Mowbray: I find Second Life to be an amazement, actually.
druth Vlodovic: the more important it is for the audience to get it "right" the harder it gets
Bruce Mowbray: not just the technological aspects, but how we can connect around the globe -- through images...
Bruce Mowbray: and somehow it works!
Bruce Mowbray: and it works sometimes on very deep levels.
Bruce Mowbray: (I'm sure you'll get my meaning.)
druth Vlodovic: it is funny how much easier it has been for me to communicate since I stopped worrying about being misinterpreted
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, and the 'audience' is varied, to be sure.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh!
Bruce Mowbray: THAT is a brilliant point, druth!
druth Vlodovic: but then nobody is likely to be burned at a stake from anything I say
Bruce Mowbray: I need to embody that understanding.
Bruce Mowbray: I should stop worrying about how people "interpret" (or judge) me -- and just be myself.
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you!
Bruce Mowbray: Worrying about being misunderstood means that you might continually be revising yourself - or even second-guessing yourself.
druth Vlodovic: using too many words :)
Bruce Mowbray: "Will the real me please stand up?"
Bruce Mowbray: Are you still here, therealsuspectishere?
Bruce Mowbray: sry, got the name wrong..
Bruce Mowbray: thesuspectishere
Bruce Mowbray: (That's hard to type without spaces.)
DR42 Resident: In and out of chat range.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Maude!
Bruce Mowbray: I got my telescope!
DR42 Resident: Cool. Been up all night yet?
Bruce Mowbray: It is an Orion Skyquest XT8. . .
Bruce Mowbray: Nope, it has to be cleaned up and probably mirrors re-centered....
Bruce Mowbray: It's in my livin groom waiting for me to get it ready.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/Orion-8945-SkyQuest-Dobsonian-Telescope/dp/B001DDW9V6
DR42 Resident: Thing looks like a cannon.
Bruce Mowbray: wb, thesuspectishere
druth Vlodovic: odd, the train is within chat distance
Bruce Mowbray: I need to get some other things settled in my life before going into astronomy.
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh!
Bruce Mowbray: So, maybe thesuspect is riding the train. . . and just comes around at intervals.
druth Vlodovic: he seems asleep
Bruce Mowbray: (I hope his dreams are creative.)
DR42 Resident: Not on the train.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
DR42 Resident: I take that back, he appears to be...

Bruce Mowbray: Then I shall rephrase my point: I hope his dreams are creative and non-dual.
Bruce Mowbray: his/her dreams....
druth Vlodovic: is duality a bad thing?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he's definitely sleeping -- I got a photo of him in his top hat.
Bruce Mowbray: No, duality is part of experience. . .
druth Vlodovic: makes it easy to define things
Bruce Mowbray: but the railroad is named the Non-dual Railroad, so I was hoping that his dreams would be consistent with the railroad's name.
druth Vlodovic: as long as they aren't monotonous
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: I guess I'm assuming that environment plays some part in dream formation - and perhaps content.
druth Vlodovic: since moving to my new place I don't really have one bed
druth Vlodovic: I sleep wherever I feel like it that night
DR42 Resident: Maybe since it is a monorail...
druth Vlodovic: brb
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Bruce Mowbray: When I walked across America in 1977, I slept in a different place every night..
Bruce Mowbray: mostly under bridges, or off in fields...
Bruce Mowbray: At first it was scary - not knowing where I'd be sleeping the next night,
Bruce Mowbray: but after about a week,
Bruce Mowbray: it got to be an adventure.
Bruce Mowbray: Will I find a dark, quiet space, away from traffic, etc etc....?
Bruce Mowbray: He's back -- and still sleeping.
DR42 Resident: I used to hitch hike all the time. Never knew when I would get where I was going, Or even where I was going.
Bruce Mowbray: yes!
Bruce Mowbray: I never hitch-hiked....
Bruce Mowbray: but walking is sort of like that.
Bruce Mowbray: not knowing...
Bruce Mowbray: always wondering "What's coming next?"
Bruce Mowbray: and letting it come.
Bruce Mowbray: Alas, the hour is done -- and I have other promises to keep.

--BELL--

DR42 Resident: Time for me to run. Hope your class goes well.
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, druth, and Maude!
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks!