The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Aphrodite Macbain: 's current display-name is "Aph".
druth Vlodovic: hieos
Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Eos
Eos Amaterasu: hi druth, hi aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Is this your time Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, it's my time space slot...
Eos Amaterasu: so to speak

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: this week's theme is stickyness
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: and getting unstuck
Eos Amaterasu: and sticky webs
Aphrodite Macbain: oh what a sticky web we weave...
Aphrodite Macbain: catching ourselves in it
Eos Amaterasu: when first we practice to fixate
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes it's done unawares
Eos Amaterasu: probably universes of unaware stickyness
Aphrodite Macbain: automatically accepting things rather than avoiding them
Eos Amaterasu: but also constant unstickyness
Aphrodite Macbain: then suddenly you are neck deep in sticky webs
Eos Amaterasu: constant losing it
Eos Amaterasu: which then gets papered over
Aphrodite Macbain: like attitudes, possessions
Aphrodite Macbain: papered over with more sticyness?
Aphrodite Macbain: *stickyness
Aphrodite Macbain: or *stickiness
Eos Amaterasu: all of the above
Eos Amaterasu: :-}
Aphrodite Macbain: what do you think needs to stay stuck?
Eos Amaterasu: what the diff 'tween appreciation and stickyness?
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe awareness
Eos Amaterasu: I think there's an immovable quality to space, which is steady but unstuck
Eos Amaterasu: yes the awareness quality
Eos Amaterasu: perhaps appreciation opens you up
Eos Amaterasu: whereas stickyness sticks you
Aphrodite Macbain: to seeing what needs to be kept
Aphrodite Macbain: stuck
Aphrodite Macbain: and what needs some aantistick lotion
Eos Amaterasu: mabye first appreciate the stuckness?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
druth Vlodovic: or it's causes
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: that comes next
Aphrodite Macbain: what is hard to unstick?
Eos Amaterasu: ignorance
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
druth Vlodovic: or fear of the effects of ignorance,which often leads to anxiety causing us to stop seeking
Aphrodite Macbain: or what?
Aphrodite Macbain: if we cant do anything about it
druth Vlodovic: I'm afraid my philosophy of humans gets tangled in biology :)
Eos Amaterasu: maybe we can play with something along those lines in the next 90 seconds pause
Aphrodite Macbain: we are out bodies
Aphrodite Macbain: kk
druth Vlodovic: appreciate stuckness?
Eos Amaterasu: observe what you stick to
Eos Amaterasu: how stickyness disappears
Aphrodite Macbain: not sure how to go about observing
Eos Amaterasu: good question
Eos Amaterasu: maybe ask, am I sticking
Eos Amaterasu: ?
Aphrodite Macbain: I with pat answers\/ come up
druth Vlodovic: I know of a few good (useful) reasons for stuckness
Eos Amaterasu: or , what does sticking or being stuck feel like
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Eos Amaterasu: not answers but feelings
Aphrodite Macbain: hmm
Aphrodite Macbain: but using words to describe those feelings
Eos Amaterasu: maybe use colors :-)
druth Vlodovic: feelings are the results of deeper thought chains and habits
Eos Amaterasu: colors map better to feelings
Aphrodite Macbain: brb
druth Vlodovic: sometimes an example of stickyness
Eos Amaterasu: and perhaps the thought chains are driven by feelings
Eos Amaterasu: creating sticky webs
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: back
druth Vlodovic: wb
Eos Amaterasu: so maybe also appreciating whatever glimpse of deeper thought chains
druth Vlodovic: are we stuck on the idea of unsticking?
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: we have just come from a discussion group
Aphrodite Macbain: and I found everyone got stuck in their attitude and belief system
druth Vlodovic: my philosophy muscles are still twitching, sorry
Eos Amaterasu: hard not to get stuck in your own attitude and belief system :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: being stuck is certainly not listening to others
druth Vlodovic: especially when opposed
druth Vlodovic: perhaps the value of "allowing"
Aphrodite Macbain: and wanting to know the truth of something without allowing that your truth may be wrong
Eos Amaterasu: opposition reinforces stickyness?
Eos Amaterasu: yes, "allowing"
druth Vlodovic: certainly
Eos Amaterasu: I think that's related to appreciating
Aphrodite Macbain: getting out of the way
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
druth Vlodovic: grab a cat and try to pull them away abruptly :)
Eos Amaterasu: and may be perhaps how appreciating the stuck points liberates them

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: appreciating how wrong the other person is!Aphrodite Macbain: *other
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Eos Amaterasu: the 90 second pause is a bubble of unstickyness
Aphrodite Macbain: I became aware how urgent it was for me to make a point
Eos Amaterasu: all the stickyness just floats
Eos Amaterasu: know that feeling well :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: like there's a part of space into which you want to stick your pin
Aphrodite Macbain: It is hard to simply watch and listen and remain unstuck
Aphrodite Macbain: uninvested in being right
Eos Amaterasu: the back and forth of sticky and not is also appreciatable....
Aphrodite Macbain: I am trying to use humour to unstick things
Eos Amaterasu: ! yes!
druth Vlodovic: lol, I spent it appreciating my stuckness, and it's positive effects
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Aphrodite Macbain: what are the positive effects?
druth Vlodovic: you get stuck to friends and thus have nice visits
druth Vlodovic: fir instance
druth Vlodovic: stuck to places you enjoy,things you like and so on
Aphrodite Macbain: ah- maybe thats the stuff we need to keep stuck
Eos Amaterasu: sweet stickyness
Eos Amaterasu: honey
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: a term of endearment
druth Vlodovic: as long as you remain stuck to a person or thing and not it's ideal
Aphrodite Macbain: but perhaps we become too stuck and
Aphrodite Macbain: are unwilling to allow more flexibility
Aphrodite Macbain: stretching that stickiness might be important
druth Vlodovic: we had a discussion about responding to an image of a person rather than the person,stuck on your past perception of them
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Eos Amaterasu: https://twitter.com/I_am_Ozma/status/419373655231967232
Aphrodite Macbain: your projection of them
Aphrodite Macbain: what are you saying Eos?
druth Vlodovic: cats and babies make the best cuddlers, since it is based on trust
Eos Amaterasu: stickyness as generous space
Aphrodite Macbain: mothers are a good place of stuckness
Aphrodite Macbain: my cats only like to cuddle if they're doing the cuddling
Eos Amaterasu: ?
druth Vlodovic: hmm,an anchor, which,being stuck to, you get to unstick from other concerns
Eos Amaterasu: yes, that's it!
Eos Amaterasu: trust, safety
druth Vlodovic: cats have their own personalities,and no embarrasment expressing it from moment to moment
Eos Amaterasu: and then you realize that your mother is space itself
Aphrodite Macbain: I notice when I get mad or anxious in a conversation I am feeling like I'm getting unstuck
Aphrodite Macbain: not a pleasant feeling
Eos Amaterasu: you mean out of comfort zone
Eos Amaterasu: ?
Aphrodite Macbain: so...
Aphrodite Macbain: no my assumptions are being challenged
Aphrodite Macbain: which can be scary
Aphrodite Macbain: if
Aphrodite Macbain: much of ones outlook is based on those assumptions
Eos Amaterasu: your sanity doesn't need your stuckness
druth Vlodovic: oh dear, that is the feeling i seek in discussions
Aphrodite Macbain: no
Aphrodite Macbain: you LIKE to feel challenged druth?
druth Vlodovic: new pause coming up,comfort vs stuckyness?
druth Vlodovic: challenged and changed
druth Vlodovic: refined in fire
Aphrodite Macbain: good for you
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe I've gathered more stickyness than you have
Eos Amaterasu: stuckyness could be seen/felt as a source of comfort?
druth Vlodovic: and discomfort
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps that is because I don't question or challenge things enough
druth Vlodovic: but unstuckness is for thrill seekers

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: and suddenly I find I believe things without knowing why.
Aphrodite Macbain: so when I am questioned about a belief
Aphrodite Macbain: I sometimes dont know why I believe it
Eos Amaterasu: that's pretty insightful :-)
druth Vlodovic: so it becomes personal
Aphrodite Macbain: I would call that unsticking
Aphrodite Macbain: but painfully
Eos Amaterasu: well, stickyness has a way of recurring
Aphrodite Macbain: with embarrassment
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: we can get re-stuck!
Eos Amaterasu: love potion #1, love potion #2.... love potion #9
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: tell me about it
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
druth Vlodovic: one of my definitions of the word "faith" is the determination to believe something you think is false, so to challenge that type of faith is to challenge the person, not the belief
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting
Aphrodite Macbain: It's hard to justify faith in any rational way
druth Vlodovic: not if you do the justifying ahead of time
Eos Amaterasu: well...
Aphrodite Macbain: that's why we need to leap into it rather than to walk carefully
Eos Amaterasu: rationality always has its agenda
Eos Amaterasu: beyond its ken
druth Vlodovic: faith in the truth of something you have studied extensively is easy to justify
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- if you have thought it through
druth Vlodovic: this is one of the stumbling blocks of scientific vs religious (notice I didn't say science versus religion)
Aphrodite Macbain: reason over passion?
Eos Amaterasu: well, it's often the other way around
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
druth Vlodovic: passion for your reasoned results
Aphrodite Macbain: passion is pretty had to resist
Eos Amaterasu: "faith seeking understanding", as the medievals said
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
druth Vlodovic: one can train one's passions and instincts
Aphrodite Macbain: reason's handmaiden as Hume said
Eos Amaterasu: agendas are usually not driven by pure reason
Aphrodite Macbain: no
Aphrodite Macbain: thank god
Aphrodite Macbain: someone...
druth Vlodovic: agendas are usually pushed by faith or advantage or peer pressure
Eos Amaterasu: or belief or hypothesis
druth Vlodovic: imho
druth Vlodovic: (cough)
Aphrodite Macbain: curiosity is a passionate motivator for scientists
Aphrodite Macbain: what would we know if we didn't care?
Eos Amaterasu: Richard Feynman said that the faith of the scientist is that nature is beautiful, and because she is beautiful she has fundamental simplicity
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting words for a scientist
Eos Amaterasu: and that drives the rational pursuit
Aphrodite Macbain: tell me more about him
Eos Amaterasu: A Very Curious Character
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Eos Amaterasu: (that's the title of his book)
druth Vlodovic: hmm, perhaps for certain values of beauty, a debate I have had fruitlessly many times :)
Aphrodite Macbain: oh!
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: smart man
Aphrodite Macbain: It's true- nature is beautiful in its perfection. That's why i paint plants
Aphrodite Macbain: to get close
Aphrodite Macbain: to that perfection
Eos Amaterasu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_feynman
Eos Amaterasu: & its imperfection :-)
Eos Amaterasu: nature seems like a busy little being
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks
Eos Amaterasu: evolving quivering noses in all directions
Aphrodite Macbain: quivering noses?
Aphrodite Macbain: nice image
Eos Amaterasu: sentient organs
Aphrodite Macbain: snuffling and sniffing
Eos Amaterasu: Ah, that's it: what Goethe said about any object sufficiently well contemplated generates a corresponding organ of perception
Eos Amaterasu: that's how relative stickyness opens you up
Aphrodite Macbain: an organ different from our existing 5 senses?
Eos Amaterasu: creates new adjacent possibles
Eos Amaterasu: sure!
Aphrodite Macbain: 6th for sure
druth Vlodovic: just thought, all the beauty and complexity of nature is (possibly) from trying stuff and seeing what happens
Eos Amaterasu: sure seems like that
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds darwinian to me!
Eos Amaterasu: play as being
Aphrodite Macbain: he he
Aphrodite Macbain: and evolving
druth Vlodovic: getting unstuck and restuck in endless succession
Aphrodite Macbain: that's why we need to unstick ourselves
Aphrodite Macbain: so we can grow and expand and develop new connectors to the world
Aphrodite Macbain sniffs the air

--BELL--

druth Vlodovic: the return ding is quieter than the start ding, that has caught me a few times
Aphrodite Macbain: I was thinking
Eos Amaterasu: !
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
druth Vlodovic: thinking...?
Aphrodite Macbain: how much I am attached to routine
Eos Amaterasu: hmm
druth Vlodovic: is that bad?
Aphrodite Macbain: and how uncomfortable I can get when something alternate presents itself. That I consider serious stickiness
Aphrodite Macbain: It keeps me from trying new things
Aphrodite Macbain: Like going to bed late
Aphrodite Macbain: or really early
Aphrodite Macbain: or eating breakfast at lunch time
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: or exercising more.......
Aphrodite Macbain: when I would normally stay home in the evening
Aphrodite Macbain: silly little things but they keep me stuck
Aphrodite Macbain: that's why I like to travel- it unsticks me
Eos Amaterasu: changing routine
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Eos Amaterasu: or appreciating the little routine things in your personal life
Eos Amaterasu: like how you lift your toothbrush
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, I suppose
Aphrodite Macbain: appreciating them rather than ungluing them
druth Vlodovic: beware of sticking to the perceived necessity of growth and change
Aphrodite Macbain: I really like my morning routine with coffee and cats and a book
druth Vlodovic: beware also of warnings
Eos Amaterasu: be aware
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
druth Vlodovic: sounds heavenly :)
Aphrodite Macbain: it is- but I get irritable if I dont have it
Aphrodite Macbain: especially the coffee!
druth Vlodovic: "away from home, need my catz!"
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: What about you two?
Aphrodite Macbain: what are you stuck with?
druth Vlodovic: homebodying
Eos Amaterasu: various necessities (or so they seem)
Aphrodite Macbain: like what?
Eos Amaterasu: like having to work
Aphrodite Macbain: do you have much choice there?
Eos Amaterasu: over my life there's been lots of choices there
Aphrodite Macbain: what's homebodying?
druth Vlodovic: not going out etc
Aphrodite Macbain: ah- you mean you could change your work?
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Aphrodite Macbain: it's easier not to change
druth Vlodovic: "do what you like and you'll never work and day in your life" and such sundry
Aphrodite Macbain: Hmm
druth Vlodovic: are we stuck to anxiety about "doing it wrong"
Aphrodite Macbain: whoever said that owns their home
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps
Aphrodite Macbain: it is fear of failure that keeps us stuck
druth Vlodovic: I suspect the lay version of xtianity has promoted the situation, but I doubt any culture has been without it
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
druth Vlodovic: not even failing so much as am I succeeding as much as (lets face it) other people expect?

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: who are those other people and do they really expect that?
Aphrodite Macbain: Time for dinner- speaking of habits
druth Vlodovic: oh you know, "them" the ones who say things
Aphrodite Macbain: right...
Eos Amaterasu: (Well, must go sleep..... thanks aph and druth for the time and conversation together)
druth Vlodovic: eat hearty :)
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks for staying up Eos
druth Vlodovic: sweet dreams eos
Aphrodite Macbain: take care