2009.08.10 19:00 - Gruntled

Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database. Maxine appears to have been the guardian.

doug Sosa: hi maxine.

Maxine Walden: hi, doug

Maxine Walden: nice to see you again

doug Sosa: yes, you too. i seem to always sit on your left side, this is different.

Maxine Walden: ah, I had not noticed, sorry. I was just going to move a bit closer, feeling just a bit distant, if that does not seem too 'forward'

--BELL--

doug Sosa: just fine, please.

doug Sosa: better.

Maxine Walden: yes, better

doug Sosa: we were talking last night about the old pavillion, and someone made the pond dissapear, etc.

Maxine Walden: oh?

Maxine Walden: the old pavilion with the river around it?

doug Sosa: like that.

Maxine Walden: well, look what you did?

Maxine Walden: did!

Maxine Walden: how did you do that?

doug Sosa: did indeed.

doug Sosa: the trick is typ esactly /9help for a menu of things you can do.

Maxine Walden: hi Paradise

Maxine Walden: ah, yes, thanks

doug Sosa: wow paradise.

Paradise Tennant: hiya doug .. maxine :))

doug Sosa: hi

Maxine Walden: hi Fox

Fox Monacular: hi everyone

Paradise Tennant: hiya fox

doug Sosa: i am still naive enough i am spooked by such a presence.

Maxine Walden: Fox does have an other worldly outfit...and with no face showing...feels a bit like Halloween

Fox Monacular: yes, it's a "no face" character from an animation 'spirited away'

Maxine Walden: ah, thanks for the explanation

Maxine Walden: hi, 3D

doug Sosa: hi three

Fox Monacular: hi Threedee

Paradise Tennant: hiya 3d :)

Threedee Shepherd: Hi Folks, sorry I'm late

Maxine Walden: hi, Adelene

Fox Monacular: hi Adelene

doug Sosa: hi ade

Paradise Tennant: hello adelene :)

Fox Monacular: what happened to the pond?

Threedee Shepherd: It's optional

Maxine Walden: it got canceled; doug was showing me tricks

doug Sosa: doug made it dissapeare, but i shouldn't bring it back

Adelene Dawner: Hi, folks :)

doug Sosa: with you guys in it :)

Threedee Shepherd: hehe

Maxine Walden: doug is tempting the big cats' wrath?

doug Sosa: can't be an intent cause he did it before they arrived.

Maxine Walden: right...

doug Sosa: the little wall that holds the water always feels to me like a barrier.

Threedee Shepherd: True, but changing back would be intent :>

doug Sosa: splash yes.

doug Sosa: i am really a 12 year old girl.

Paradise Tennant: ;)

Maxine Walden: lots of guises today...

doug Sosa: if these are guises, what are dis-guises?

Maxine Walden: hmmm

Threedee Shepherd: doug, I was thinking the same question ;D

Maxine Walden: is that like the word 'sanction' which means opposites at the same time?

doug Sosa: sanction?

Threedee Shepherd: hmm, allow and censure

Maxine Walden: yes, 3D. Sorry for the leap in thought

doug Sosa: hey three that was quick!

Threedee Shepherd: I have always wondered what the word gruntled means, if one can be disgruntled?

Maxine Walden: yes, puzzling

doug Sosa: i love those words that makes sense but taking off a part the remains seem never to be used.

Maxine Walden: or dismayed

doug Sosa: I am a 12 year old mayed

Maxine Walden: hahah

Maxine Walden: (about to go on with that word play, but restraining myself).

doug Sosa: display as being

Maxine Walden: hehehe, yes

Fox Monacular: i play my avatar sometimes

Maxine Walden: like a musical instrument?

--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: * Main Entry: grun·tle * Pronunciation: \ˈgrÉ™n-tÉ™l\ * Function: transitive verb * Inflected Form(s): grun·tled; grun·tling \ˈgrÉ™nt-liÅ‹, ˈgrÉ™n-tÉ™l-iÅ‹\ * Etymology: back-formation from disgruntle * Date: 1926 : to put in a good humor 

Paradise Tennant: :)

Fox Monacular: :)

doug Sosa: wow.

Threedee Shepherd: I believe the red herring here is "dis", which in not a prefix root in some other languages from which English has borroweed.

Paradise Tennant: love words that sound like what they mean :)) gruntled sounds "well - satisfied"

Paradise Tennant: :)

doug Sosa: whnce comes it? Isn't it working as in dis-gusting, gust as in gustatory?

doug Sosa: or dis-harmony.

Maxine Walden: word detectives

Threedee Shepherd: No, the statement that it is a back-formation means disgruntled existed before the word gruntled was coined

Paradise Tennant: :) yes

doug Sosa: right, but that can't be for dis-harmony.

Paradise Tennant: disgruntled took off .. and sadly left its positive behind :)

doug Sosa: we are about to get anatomical.

Paradise Tennant: * Main Entry: dis·har·mo·ny * Pronunciation: \-nē\ * Function: noun * Date: circa 1602 : lack of harmony : discord — dis·har·mon·ic \-här-ˈmä-nik\ adjective

Paradise Tennant: so what was our topic tonight ?

Maxine Walden: seems we are meandering so far

doug Sosa: the pond, but we dis'ed it.

Fox Monacular: i like to ponder on the pond

Fox Monacular: it was nice

doug Sosa: dry spell.

Paradise Tennant: water as a reflection ... of ...

Fox Monacular: or a repository of...

doug Sosa: those sit onthe other side, but that's the problem, this pond has no refletions!!

Fox Monacular: but there might be something inside...

Maxine Walden: this may be an interesting example of the pond having different meanings/impacts on different individuals

Threedee Shepherd: I think it may be a pool, not a pond

Maxine Walden: to doug I believe it seems at times a barrier, to others a lovely water feature

Paradise Tennant: life is perception

doug Sosa: to me both.

Threedee Shepherd: or, perception is life

Fox Monacular: ouch, a pool is a whole other thing

Paradise Tennant: :)

Threedee Shepherd: Thoreau may have swum in a pool near Walden, but he lived at Walden Pond

Hana Furlough: hi everyone

doug Sosa: hi hana

Fox Monacular: Hi Hana

Paradise Tennant: hello hana

Paradise Tennant: ;)

Threedee Shepherd: hello, Is this your first time here, Hana?

Hana Furlough: oh no i just don't usually make it to the 7 p.m.

Hana Furlough: it's very nice to meet you

Threedee Shepherd: Bad spelling though

doug Sosa: the subject this evening was my anxiety at sitting with beautiful women, a spirit and two very large carnivors.

Threedee Shepherd: and you

Hana Furlough: the lions are pretty incredible

Fox Monacular: yes, I'm staring at the lions too

Maxine Walden: lol, doug

Fox Monacular: nice sound

Adelene Dawner: ^.^

Paradise Tennant: smiles not sure I would be too worried about two large carnivores who come complete with a cozy kitty bed :)

doug Sosa: the lions are credible and i am edible

Hana Furlough: lol both is good

Maxine Walden: doug, great comeback!

--BELL--

doug Sosa: i am just bytes of bits.

Paradise Tennant: in an earlier session .. we were trying to observe .. how physical senses and how thought arose and dissipated in the 90 seconds of silence .. anyone interested in trying that tonight ?

Paradise Tennant: *our

doug Sosa: yes

Hana Furlough: yeah let's do it

Paradise Tennant: okies

Paradise Tennant: so on the next round of silence .. we just try to be aware .. :)

Fox Monacular: so like in meditation?

Paradise Tennant: hmm yes

Paradise Tennant: what happens when you try to be still .. quiet

Threedee Shepherd: I do not regularly meditate beyond the 9-sec. Thus, for me to be "meditative" for 90 second is not yet achievable

doug Sosa: its just ten 9 sec in a row.

Paradise Tennant: hmm if you take in a long very slow breath and let it out equally slowly . .that is mediation . usually longer than 9 secs

Hana Furlough: do you think you can just watch your thoughts?

Threedee Shepherd: but not 90

Paradise Tennant: hmmyep

Paradise Tennant: ::))

Paradise Tennant: not attach to them

doug Sosa: or have th thoghts watch you. Pema does tht with paintings and other objects.

Paradise Tennant: just watch them like clouds

Threedee Shepherd: You can watch or think, but not both truly simultaneously, I suggest

Paradise Tennant: hmm

Paradise Tennant: think a better term is experience ..

Fox Monacular: I think that we often think without volitional control, that's why this excercise can be so revealing

Hana Furlough: why don't yo experiment a little and see

Threedee Shepherd: what IS thinking?

Paradise Tennant: because it is not just cognitive .. but very much tied to your senses

doug Sosa: so lie the first tging hat came to mind ws the reflection of the light everyone. i hadn't "seen" it before.

doug Sosa: thing that.

doug Sosa: then i think, itsnot reflection, its the setting sun.

doug Sosa: or rising moon?

Hana Furlough: what do you mean by the reflection of the light?

Paradise Tennant: hm labeling .. identifying is cognition .. feeling the warm of the sun on your skin is experience

doug Sosa: you can see it on the edges of us, we are lit on one side but not the other.

Paradise Tennant: we are so .. cognitively oriented .. we often lose the experiential .. side of just being

Fox Monacular: it is difficult to separate cognition and sensation or perception...

Hana Furlough: do you mean like an aura or energy?

Fox Monacular: you feel the warmth, and then in no time you think "how nice, i'm experiencing now'

Paradise Tennant: hmm think there are layers .. and you can focus on the thoughts and you can focus on the experience without labeling or subjective judgement ..and not hard to do

Paradise Tennant: end up with thoughts still ..just really really simple ones !

Paradise Tennant: like warm sun

Hana Furlough: that's okay

Paradise Tennant: ;)

Hana Furlough: me too

Hana Furlough: and i just keep going

Hana Furlough: for me, warm sun is part of the process of appreciation

Hana Furlough: it's not a judgement, just an expression of what i'm experiencing

Paradise Tennant: yes

--BELL--

Threedee Shepherd: Every consciously perceived external input starts as a pure experience, and I think it becomes the subject of thought and cognition almost instantly thereafter

Paradise Tennant: :)

Paradise Tennant: it is a big almost :)

doug Sosa: maybe it is thought reacing out for something to latch onto and make something of.. maybe the thoughtis in action first.

Threedee Shepherd: Interesting thought Doug. I see no reason that could not happen.

doug Sosa: thought is a witing tiger and sensations naive chickens.

Fox Monacular: yes, it is perhaps what buddhists often refer to as 'wild mind'

doug Sosa: waiting.

Paradise Tennant: monkey mind

Paradise Tennant: :)

Fox Monacular: yes, i heard both

Fox Monacular: :)

Fox Monacular: one teacher talked about mind as a wild elephant even:)

Paradise Tennant: then there is the calm abiding ... the sensation everyone can get for a few seconds with the slow focused release of one's breath

Paradise Tennant: a deep deep calm feeling

Maxine Walden: dear friends, RL is calling so I had better go. Thanks for the good discussion. Hope to see you again soon.

Paradise Tennant: good nite maxine :)

Threedee Shepherd: bye Maxine

Maxine Walden: bye all

Fox Monacular: bye Maxine

doug Sosa: yes, bye. I'll sit for a few more minues.

Hana Furlough: bye maxine

Hana Furlough: so do you think there comes a point when we can completely get past monkey mind?

Fox Monacular: that's enlightenment

Paradise Tennant: yes

Fox Monacular: :)

doug Sosa: not without being dead.

Paradise Tennant: :)

Hana Furlough: lol

Hana Furlough: but is enlightenment a practice or a continuous state?

Paradise Tennant: hmmm kind of a portal of perception that once your really see .. forever changes your perception would be my guess

Fox Monacular: roshi Joan Halifax said that enlightenment is a state of absolune unselfishness

Paradise Tennant: but very easy to take monkey mind breaks

Paradise Tennant: :)

Paradise Tennant: very restful too

Fox Monacular: yes, definitely

Hana Furlough: good point

doug Sosa: i think - controversial - that enlightenment is pure mind without feelings. It is devloid of humanity or compassion. It is isness without anything else. it is a computer waiting to wait.

Paradise Tennant: hmm

Hana Furlough: or just absolute compassion

Paradise Tennant: absolute connectedness

Hana Furlough: yeah

Hana Furlough: connectedness because you are everything and everything is you

Threedee Shepherd: Is it pure mind without feelings, or pure experience without mind?

Paradise Tennant: yes

doug Sosa: and that is the universe and it is itself.

Paradise Tennant: you are everything and everything is you .. such powerful words hana

Hana Furlough: its thusness

Fox Monacular: my monkey mind needs to rest... I've got to go sleep now, nice talking to you all

Hana Furlough: haha nice!

Paradise Tennant: good nite fox .. sleep well

Threedee Shepherd: night, fox

doug Sosa: bye.

Fox Monacular: good night everyone

Hana Furlough: good night fox!

--BELL--

doug Sosa: The wonderful mystery of play and seriousness among friends here.

Paradise Tennant: :)

Hana Furlough: that's it, that's it

doug Sosa: i think I'll rise and go now.

Paradise Tennant: :) good nite doug

Hana Furlough: have a great night, doug

doug Sosa: thanks!

Paradise Tennant: I have a little dog who is of like mind :))

Paradise Tennant: Thank you all .. as always :))

Threedee Shepherd: nite

Hana Furlough: thanks everyone!

Hana Furlough: bye~

Threedee Shepherd: bye

Paradise Tennant: good night all big wave from toronto :)

Adelene Dawner: 'night :)