2009.08.16 19:00 - Children and Dolphins

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

doug Sosa: hi steve

stevenaia Michinaga: hi Doug,

stevenaia Michinaga: brb, delivery needed upstairs

doug Sosa: just finished dinner, some new green tea, and the light is beautiful. content.

stevenaia Michinaga: back, I was cooking all day for guests, more of a cooking party

doug Sosa: ah paradise!

Paradise Tennant: hiya doug .. steve :))

stevenaia Michinaga: Hello aradise

stevenaia Michinaga: P

Paradise Tennant: how are you two tonight ?

doug Sosa: i had just written, finished dinner, some new green tea, content.

doug Sosa: Self?

Paradise Tennant: nice :)) very well too . enjoyed a nice lazy day :)

stevenaia Michinaga: I had a busy day cooking tomato sauce with friends

doug Sosa: secret ingredient?

Paradise Tennant: fun .!

stevenaia Michinaga: as little effort as possible, and fresh ingredient

doug Sosa: and what does lazy look like Par?

Paradise Tennant: breakfast out .. mostly around a nice antique market ..nap .. 5 mile run .. a little cleaning . make a stew .. long bath . all good

Paradise Tennant: went to a jason mraz concert last night

Paradise Tennant: wonderful .. concert if he is playing in your town .. I would go

doug Sosa: five miles, that's why you look so good :)

Paradise Tennant: hmm what you get use ..not running fast .. but listen to great music and it really fun

Paradise Tennant: *is

doug Sosa: i like to put on jazz at night and dance a bit before sleep.

Paradise Tennant: simply a great idea !

--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: what was our topic tonight ?

stevenaia Michinaga: we both just got here, I am listening to some interesting Australian music as I enjoy didgeridoo, listening and playing

doug Sosa: ?

stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.indijika.com/

doug Sosa: I am thinking about my being here a bit more this week, getting ready for the retreat. What being here feels like.

doug Sosa: I notice the feeling of the space here between us. it feel much larger than when there are four or five people.

Paradise Tennant: thanks for the music link steve ..

Paradise Tennant: shall we banish the fountain again

Paradise Tennant: :)

doug Sosa: sure.

stevenaia Michinaga: yes

stevenaia Michinaga: if I can just remember the command

doug Sosa: ?9help

stevenaia Michinaga: ".9help"

stevenaia Michinaga: "/9help"

doug Sosa: feels better.

Paradise Tennant: :)

doug Sosa: I've been reading a french philosopher, not well known, who says that all things are equally real: countries, clouds, cats, smiles, atoms. non are privileged except through their connections.

Paradise Tennant: our subjective connections to them ?

stevenaia Michinaga: interesting way of putting it, never considered what is and what isn;t privileged

doug Sosa: no. just connections among us all, people cats pillows...

doug Sosa: and there is no subjectivity objectivity split. totally artificial.

stevenaia Michinaga: connections sounds like consciousness, even to a pillow

stevenaia Michinaga: awareness

Paradise Tennant: ok what is a connection

doug Sosa: yes, but things have connections that are not conscious.

doug Sosa: a connection is just some interaction, any kind.

doug Sosa: It seems to me to very supportive of PaB. Appreciating appearance.

stevenaia Michinaga: wonders how things are or aren't privileged

stevenaia Michinaga: not sure I understand how the term is used

doug Sosa: well, usually people think people are somehow intrinsically more important.

doug Sosa: the two people i am reading are souriau and bruno latour.

stevenaia Michinaga: they certainly become more important when noticed

doug Sosa: right and PaB has us noticing more.

stevenaia Michinaga: certainly what;s on each other's minds in new ways

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Amira

Paradise Tennant: so there is no real subjective or objective difference between a gum wrapper and a person in terms of real importance

doug Sosa: I am reading that stuff to see if i can think about economy in some new way, to get us out of the money trap.

Paradise Tennant: blinking not sure I understand

doug Sosa: well the person and the gum wrapper have different connections, many. think of the people that have touched the gum for it to get to us.

--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: , who says that all things are equally real: countries, clouds, cats, smiles, atoms. non are privileged except through their connections.

Paradise Tennant: so our importance rises with our connections and I would guess our awareness of those connections

stevenaia Michinaga: or.. the appearance of connections

doug Sosa: bruno latour, interesting fellow, son of the LaTour vineyads in france, and the world's most influential sociologist of science.

Paradise Tennant: jots down the name .. sorry I have never heard of him

doug Sosa: wow, the light!

stevenaia Michinaga: sunset? Doug

doug Sosa: no need for sorrow. he has a web page you can google. french and english.

stevenaia Michinaga: feel free to send me a pic for the log

doug Sosa: hm, won't let me save it to inventory without paying $10 !!

Paradise Tennant: smart philosopher !

stevenaia Michinaga: thought it was a rl sunset, use my email

stevenaia Michinaga: once things go into my inventory they are lost forever

stevenaia Michinaga: lost

doug Sosa: well, by the time i figured it out, it wouldn't let me do the first one which was glorious, so sent the second. not as good.

doug Sosa: which makes you say smart, Par?

Paradise Tennant: lol

Paradise Tennant: well . oft times philosophers are not monetarily oriented .. :)

doug Sosa: And times when the rest of us aren't either.

doug Sosa: Very interesting article in the New York Times this morning by Alison Gopnik. She has a new book out on the amazing intelligence of babies.

Paradise Tennant: jots down another name :)

doug Sosa: Way beyond that of adults in many dimensions, such as awareness of probabilities.

stevenaia Michinaga: should be the same for dolphins

doug Sosa: and psyching out the adults around them.

Paradise Tennant: how so

stevenaia Michinaga: we presume much abut others until we become "smart" enough to realize we are not smart enough

Paradise Tennant: ;) it is a great realization !

doug Sosa: well, i'd need to describe, so i leave it to the article. Sweet read, it will make you feel googer about humans. Especially young ones.

doug Sosa: googer=gooder

doug Sosa: confused with goo-goo.. :)

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Paradise Tennant: ;)

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/op.../16gopnik.html

doug Sosa: magic.

stevenaia Michinaga: if it's there it's here too

Paradise Tennant: :)

Paradise Tennant: thanks steve

Paradise Tennant: often wonder about the intelligence of animals .. I think they are so much smarter than we understand .. temple grandin wrote a great book called animals in translation

doug Sosa: yes, i've got it right here. Amazing that people thought animals had no soul, no feeling, were just machines (descartes). The reaction to eating them?

stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.littletownmart.com/dolphins/

stevenaia Michinaga: if we are just understanding children, how can we possibly presume we know about other warm blooded mammals

doug Sosa: another, animal dialogues by Craig Childs.

doug Sosa: steve we can understand them both the same way, we notice their reactions, feel their worlds.

doug Sosa: maybe badly, but the affect us profoundly.

stevenaia Michinaga: but we tend to anthopomorphsize

stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacean_intelligence

stevenaia Michinaga: if that;s a word

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

doug Sosa: its ok, we do that even with ourselves :)

stevenaia Michinaga: agreed it is the "same world"

stevenaia Michinaga: but reactions can mean the same or different things, there was an article abut whales in the NYT a few weeks ago and how they approach human in new and almost gentle ways

Paradise Tennant: :))

stevenaia Michinaga: lifting boats on their backs and placing them back in the water

stevenaia Michinaga: boats

stevenaia Michinaga: what we might do to a bug in hand

stevenaia Michinaga: but does the bug notice

Paradise Tennant: there is a great deal of gentleness in nature .. once watch a family of duck grow up .when they are young they play hide and seek ..they made up a little hopping game on some steps .. they have a sense of humor have not been able to eat duck since

doug Sosa: i read that, the mothers were leading their young over to the boats.

doug Sosa: whales that is.

stevenaia Michinaga: wonders of the impact of communications of this type

stevenaia Michinaga: on us

doug Sosa: we are so much more wonderful than we give ourselves credit for, us and the ducks and the whales and the insects.

doug Sosa: which one of us is providing adult supervision for the other two?

Paradise Tennant: ;)

stevenaia Michinaga: time will tell

stevenaia Michinaga: when they hand us a computer and tell us to log on to their SL

doug Sosa: no, time is mum.

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, May be back in a bit if you remain

Paradise Tennant: nite nite steve :))

doug Sosa: night!

doug Sosa: either going to the retreat?

doug Sosa: going

Paradise Tennant: was thinking about it .. but just took two weeks holidays so may wait for the next one

doug Sosa: where was holiday?

Paradise Tennant: pema mentioned there would be another one this year

doug Sosa: i like this cause its close.

Paradise Tennant: ahh kk

doug Sosa: ?

Paradise Tennant: I am in toronto .. so a bit of a jaunt for me

doug Sosa: at mcgill?

Paradise Tennant: Mcgill is in montreal

Paradise Tennant: :)

doug Sosa: if mcgill is in toronto.

doug Sosa: right. been a long time since eitgher.

Paradise Tennant: but it should be a really interesting experience

doug Sosa: i think like our sessions, on the surface and then suddenly..

doug Sosa: but par, i need to go weed some in the garden before dark. i've enjoyed being with you.

Paradise Tennant: hmm i find the conversation very good at these sessions.. usually always come away with something

Paradise Tennant: kk doug

doug Sosa: oh yes. always useful.

doug Sosa: bye.

Paradise Tennant: I hope you have a nice night

doug Sosa: wave wave!