2010.01.02 13:00 - Anger Unpacked.

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

In several ways, this session seems to be a completely spontaneous thought-stream continuation of the session2009.12.26 13:00 - Unpacking Anger.  As Arabella points out at the end, talking about stressful situation does tend to raise the stress level of the individuals engaged in discussing stressful situations. As is usually the case when having an intense conversation in text-form, words and their meaning can be interpreted at face value without further explaination or body language to aid in their understanding.

I arrived late to the pavilion, and Eden, Liza, Tallin, Aubergine, Storm, Aidan and Yakuzza were there just beginning the discussion about anger. Arabella and Mickorod arrived soon after...

Eden Haiku: You look different!
Liza Deischer: hi both
Eden Haiku: Hello liza!
Tallin Dezno: hi liza - sry - i´m bertram - yes eden - it´s another ava from me - and - somebody of you has that fliptitle tool for me perhaps ?
Liza Deischer: hi Tallin
Eden Haiku: Fliptitle?
Tallin Dezno: yes to write titles over the ava ...
Liza Deischer: no, sorry
Tallin Dezno: ok i´ll search ...
Eden Haiku: I have one. I do not know if it is transferable , let me see...
Eden Haiku: Yep! Here it is!
Tallin Dezno: normally they are i think ... (ty) :-)
Eden Haiku: Would you like a copy Liza?
Tallin Dezno: title red bertram
Aubergine Mint: hi everyone
Liza Deischer: yes, can you flip that fliptitle to me :-)
Tallin Dezno: hi aubergine
Eden Haiku: hello Aubergine!
Liza Deischer: hi Aubergine
Tallin Dezno: but ... how th change the text ?
Tallin Dezno: to*
Liza Deischer: thanks Eden
Eden Haiku: Just write /8 than whatever you want
Tallin Dezno: ah ! /8 ! ty ! :-)
Eden Haiku: Welcome Liza!
Eden Haiku: Would you like a fliptitle too Aubergine?
Aubergine Mint: yes
Liza Deischer: hi bert
Tallin Dezno: and can i stop the flash ?
Tallin Dezno: hey liza again ... :-)
Liza Deischer: it is called colour changing
Eden Haiku: No this one is flashing, not so discreet hey!
Tallin Dezno: okay ;-)
Aubergine Mint: so how are you doing that?
Liza Deischer: but yours and mine arent
Eden Haiku: Sophia Sharon seems to be late... Should I claim the log?
Tallin Dezno: if it doesn´t disturb you all too much ...
Liza Deischer: right-click on it, and chose: wear
Eden Haiku: I will send it to you Aubergine
Tallin Dezno: why not eden - it can be taken over bye sophia if she arrives ... or ? isn´t that so ? :-)
Aubergine Mint: thanks Eden
Eden Haiku: yes, let us wait a bit. She might be late. I just want to make sure someone does claim it. No one is her replacement here today?
Tallin Dezno: not me -
Liza Deischer: I am glad I wear something on my left-eye :-)
Liza Deischer: eyeball
Tallin Dezno: hehe liza ;-)
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Liza Deischer: Im afraid I cant answer that Eden
Liza Deischer: it starts to flash when you change the text
Tallin Dezno: shortly away - sry -
Eden Haiku: How was your New Year celebration? Anyone had time for 9 seconds? ;-)
Aubergine Mint: i had quite a few 9 seconds
Aubergine Mint: tried to be more conscious of that
Eden Haiku: And how did it feel Aubergine?
Liza Deischer: I've tried to be more aware this day
Aubergine Mint: very nice, I think it's starting to have an effect on me
Liza Deischer: great
Eden Haiku: Yes, the fact that we are going into a new year, makes us more vigilant maybe. New ground!
Aubergine Mint: yes, i think so
Eden Haiku: Tell us more Aubergine?
Aubergine Mint: i notice more times now that i'm preoccupied with routine
Aubergine Mint: and i try to catch myself
Aubergine Mint: and be less routine in my thinking
Eden Haiku: You mean automatic responses you give to RL situations?
Aubergine Mint: yes
Eden Haiku: Very interesting, would you mind sharing an example?

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: hi Storm, Aiden
Tallin Dezno: hi aidan and storm ! ... :-))
Storm Nordwind: Hello everyone
Aubergine Mint: hi Aidan and Storm
Eden Haiku: We are talking about experimenting with the 9 secs. HI Storm, Aidan ;-)
Aidan Spiritor: hello all
Eden Haiku: Everybody made a resolution to be silent in 2010?
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Tallin Dezno: what does it men "to travel light of heart" eden, please ? ... :-)
Tallin Dezno: mean*
Eden Haiku: I must say I forgot the 9 secs a lot...
Eden Haiku: It means to travel with less stuff and no emotional burdens.
Tallin Dezno: oh. nice ! :-)
Eden Haiku: I have to work on that ;-)
Tallin Dezno: who not ? ;-)
Storm Nordwind: Better than traveling heavy of heart, I would suggest!
Eden Haiku: It feels better!
Aidan Spiritor: No emotions at all??
Tallin Dezno: often i have the impression, my english is not good enough to understand some jokes ... ;-)
Eden Haiku: No, no. All emotions that I have to go through. Just to let go of the useless stuff...
Aidan Spiritor: I see
Eden Haiku: English is not my mother tongue either Bertram, I may speak a bit weird sometimes...
Aidan Spiritor: In my experience there is wisdom in all emotions. The trick may be to not let them terrorize us?
Eden Haiku: Yes, exactly. I had this interesting experince during the family New Year party I was hosting. Seeing the emotion rushing at me, and stepping aside so I wouldn't be damaged and loose my focus on having the party go well for everyone.
Aidan Spiritor: That is , notice the essential wisdom and send the remaining noise on its way..
Eden Haiku: Yes.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Liza Deischer: Hi Yaku
Aubergine Mint: hi Yakuzza
Aidan Spiritor: Hey..
Tallin Dezno: hey yaku ! ... ;-)
Eden Haiku: Hello Yakuzza and his hot cup of tea!
Storm Nordwind: What is the essential wisdom of emotions? Can you give us an example?
Eden Haiku: Yes Aidan? ;-)

--BELL--

Aidan Spiritor: Say you are angry with someone. There may be a good underlying reason. for example they may be doing something harmful that they need to stop. Noticing the harmful action is useful but the energy of anger is not healthy for you.
Liza Deischer: getting angry, without getting angry?
Storm Nordwind: So you are perhaps suggesting mindfulness, rather than emotion?
Aidan Spiritor: So, accept the wisdom of asking them to stop and redirect the energy of your anger into something constructive ..
Eden Haiku: The wisdom is then retaining the lesson and discarding the energy that is eating you up? Not easy to do though.
Aidan Spiritor: Not easy at all but potentiallly very liberating..
Liza Deischer: or transform the energy?
Aidan Spiritor: Even better...
Eden Haiku: Transform sounds good.
Eden Haiku: Breathing it out?
Eden Haiku: Punching bagging it?
Aidan Spiritor: Yes this is a way to deal with conflict withiout aggression
Aidan Spiritor: *without
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Everyone :) sorry to be late!!
Storm Nordwind: Why not aspire to deeper wisdom, see why the anger arose in the first place, and address the cause within yourself?
Liza Deischer: hi Sophia
Aidan Spiritor: Hi
Liza Deischer: Sophia
Aubergine Mint: hi Sophia
Eden Haiku: HI Sophia.
SophiaSharon Larnia: (did someone grab the log????)
Eden Haiku: yes, but you can take it again I think?
Tallin Dezno: hey sophia ! ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I overslept
Eden Haiku: No problem...
Aidan Spiritor: Even better still. But the anger is still likely to arise sooner or later so it is helpful to have a strategy for transforming it once the wisdom is noticed..
Eden Haiku: Thank you Sophia ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps if you fully address the cause, the likelihood that anger will arise again will recede?
Eden Haiku: How would you do that: fully address the cause?
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Bertram <grins>
Liza Deischer: what is the root of anger?
Tallin Dezno: :-))
Aidan Spiritor: Now snowing here in RL as well...
Tallin Dezno: may be greed liza ... (?)
Aidan Spiritor: I find anger often arises when a person is feeling hurt..
Aidan Spiritor: Or threatened..
Tallin Dezno: hi ara ! ... :-)
Liza Deischer: losing valuable things
Eden Haiku: I feel angry when someone trespasses my boundaries.
Liza Deischer: not just meaning material things
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ara
Liza Deischer: hi Ara
Aubergine Mint: hi
Aidan Spiritor: Hello...:-)
Eden Haiku: Hello Arabella!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabella
Aidan Spiritor: Often people get angry when their 'hot buttons' are pressed..usually ego related defense..
Liza Deischer: hi Mick
Tallin Dezno: hello mick ! ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mickorod
Liza Deischer: no desert today, I hope :-)
Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone,,happy new year
Aubergine Mint: happy new year!
Tallin Dezno: same to you mick - ty ! ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)) Happy New Year
Aidan Spiritor: H N Y to you as welll...
Eden Haiku: Happy New Year Mickorod!
Mickorod Renard: well,,funny u should ask,,I have just had the same as last night
Liza Deischer: darn :-)
arabella Ella: Hiya Mick
Mickorod Renard: crumble and ice cream
Eden Haiku: Hummm...
Liza Deischer: This time I brought it on myself, stupid :-)
Mickorod Renard: brought what on?
Liza Deischer: the hunger
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Mickorod Renard: yes, the hunger..can be hunger for anything too
Mickorod Renard: food,,happiness
Liza Deischer: yes, we were talking about anger
Liza Deischer: and what it means
Eden Haiku: And how to <deal,>
Liza Deischer: that's no hunger, but defene
Storm Nordwind: I have never found anger to have any positive effects. I do believe there are ways one can train oneself to pacify anger long term. However, i also suspect that many people cling to the notion of anger being potentially something useful or even virtuous.</grins><grins><deal,>
</grins>

<grins><deal,>--BELL--</grins>

<grins><deal,>Eden Haiku: I agree with you Storm: anger is poisonous and dangerous. I would like to be able to neutralize it but I have never been able to do so in the long run.
Aidan Spiritor: I believe there is wisdom in anger. The problem arises when we strike out in anger, I believe...
Liza Deischer: I agree with you Storm, but there is something in the energy that you can use
Storm Nordwind: The energy is already there Liza! You do not have to get angry to access it. :)
Eden Haiku: The acting out could be something we refrain from you mean Aidan?
Liza Deischer: true
Aidan Spiritor: There are practices that lead to transforming the energy of anger into constructive power to make things happen
Liza Deischer: but when you get angry, you get to that energy very quickly
Storm Nordwind: Why not go to the source of constructive power directly, without having to go through anger?
Eden Haiku: Could you share about one of theses practices Aidan?
Aidan Spiritor: Good things..
Liza Deischer: I think that's the answer to me
Liza Deischer: need to find the constructive power, without the anger
Aidan Spiritor: I believe you could access the anger in another way as suggested..
Eden Haiku: Where is the source of constructive power Storm?
Liza Deischer: what makes constructive power into anger?
Liza Deischer: whats the difference
Aidan Spiritor: So many Q's i'm not sure which to address...
Eden Haiku: ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles...thanks for asking though, was thinking the same things
arabella Ella: me too :)
Eden Haiku: I guess the same could be said of sadness and fear. Same problem.
Liza Deischer: the attachment?
Storm Nordwind: I find the source of the power is always within me. It can turn to anger if I see the illusion of separation between things... or losing the trust that I have
Eden Haiku: delusions?
Aidan Spiritor: Very few people will succeed in never feeling anger, so a question arises as to how to deal with it and not be destructive...
Storm Nordwind: I disagree Aidan.
Aidan Spiritor: Please say more..
Storm Nordwind: I think everyone can be trained to work with the source of anger. They will still be able to tap the source of creative energy.
Tallin Dezno: sry. i´ll leave ... have a nice time all ! ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Tallin :))
Liza Deischer: bye bert
Storm Nordwind: That way it becomes a creative strategy and not a coping strategy
Aidan Spiritor: Bye..
Storm Nordwind waves
Eden Haiku: Bye Bertram! Happy new Year!
Tallin Dezno: and ty all ... :-)
Aubergine Mint: bye
Liza Deischer: experimental?
arabella Ella: bye Talin / Bert HNY
Storm Nordwind must excuse himself from this interesting discussion, but he has to disappear!
arabella Ella: :(
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Storm
Liza Deischer: bye storm
arabella Ella: bye Storm HNY
Liza Deischer: thanks for being here
Mickorod Renard: bye storm
Storm Nordwind: See you all again soon!
arabella Ella: wb Mick
Eden Haiku: Bye Storm! Thank you!
Storm Nordwind waves
Aubergine Mint: bye
Mickorod Renard: sorry,,crashed
Liza Deischer: i think it is not experimental
Eden Haiku: Wb Mick!
Liza Deischer: that is still dualism
Liza Deischer: creative strategy....pondering
Aubergine Mint: bye everyone, happy new year wishes
Eden Haiku: I agree that anger is destructive. I know it.
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Aubergine
arabella Ella: bye Aygergine HNY
Liza Deischer: bye Aubergine
Eden Haiku: Bye Aubergine! Happy New year!
Aidan Spiritor: Bye..
Mickorod Renard: bye aub</grins>
<grins><deal,></grins>

<grins><deal,>The following part of this session discusses the tricky word 'Aggression'. As was explained to me by one of the participants, an idea that may have been 'lost in translation' is: 'Aggression used in a mindful way means that you know when, where and how to use it'. I have likened this concept to that of reflecting behavior like a mirror --- people can be confronted on their behavior by showing how they are hurting others, although the person directing these behaviors may not want to be confronted and may perceive this action or nonaction as aggressive. An important point of this also is the idea that anger can be seen as a form of attachment, and the concept of reflection can be unrelated to attachment to anger. I hope I have explain this well enough for now, and I'm not sure if I have understood all of the nuances of this (maybe another word that can be used is Assertiveness), but maybe that can be a discussion for another session...</grins>

<grins><deal,>
</grins>

<grins><deal,><grins><deal,>

<grins><deal,>Mickorod Renard: yea,,i am finding anger serves little purpose
Aidan Spiritor: It certainly can be , but is it always?
Mickorod Renard: a bit of wrath seems ok
Liza Deischer: how so mick?
Eden Haiku: In the New Testament, Jesus says: I do not come for peace but for bringing the sword. I will look it up...
Aidan Spiritor: I was suggesting that there is wisdom in the anger that may not be available any other way..
Liza Deischer: please do Eden
Mickorod Renard: well..i think people need to know you are not happy in some cases
Liza Deischer: the question is if you need anger to make your point
Mickorod Renard: but anger usually involves something destructive,,even in ones self
Aidan Spiritor: My other point is that however we evolved anger has shown up and probably has served some useful purpose..
Mickorod Renard: wrath is over and done with quickly
Aidan Spiritor: My point is not to judge anger but to notice it as part of our nature..
Eden Haiku: Matthew 10:34 - "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword"
Mickorod Renard: I think a good analysis of ones anger usually discovers something inately not nice
Aidan Spiritor: And then to see how we can work constructively with it..</grins><grins><deal,>
</grins>

<grins><deal,>--BELL--</grins>

<grins><deal,>Liza Deischer: we dont need to be powerless, like little sweet kittens, to make our point
Liza Deischer: but anger is something different I think
Mickorod Renard: I think so too
Liza Deischer: defending yourself doesnt need to be a bad thing
Aidan Spiritor: "not nice" is to judge anger. I suggest anger 'just is'...
Mickorod Renard: maybe anger is something that we have allowed to evolve,it doesnt mean its constructive
Liza Deischer: I see your point Aiden
Eden Haiku: Yes, I see what you are pointing to Liza and Mick. Anger can be a sharp cutting through or some emotional turmoil we linger into...Is that any close to what you mean?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive felt anger as a need to change something that is going on, as a signal that something is wrong
Aidan Spiritor: I am not saying it is constructive in all instances.
Liza Deischer: And without being freed of anger, I suppose I need to except the situation
Liza Deischer: but only to make anger subside and go away
Aidan Spiritor: Yes, as a signal
Mickorod Renard: I think so, in my thoughts on anger,,usually it lasts too long and one often looses sight of what is real
Eden Haiku: I feel something similar Sophia Sharon. Something has to be done sometimes. The situation calls for some energetic action.
Aidan Spiritor: When you notice it non judgementally somehow that causes it to have less power over us..
Liza Deischer: but must it be anger
SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes, though, the thing you are angry about can not be changed, and acceptance seems the only way to bring peace, and this brings more anger
Liza Deischer: or can you substitute it for something different
SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Mickorod Renard: perhaps anger is something we dont harness properly when our system raises its energetic level to cope with some threat?
Aidan Spiritor: I believe anger has its own unique wisdom..
Eden Haiku: From the limbic system? very archaic?
SophiaSharon Larnia: rage against the machine
Liza Deischer: rising to an energetic level to cope with stress is not the same as anger
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Liza Deischer: maybe we are mistaken sometimes in what we feel
Mickorod Renard: I dont agree eden, although I am no expert,,but in my opinion when in anger we do not see clearly
Aidan Spiritor: Primordial just like consciousness
Liza Deischer: and turn it into anger
Liza Deischer: because we think that that energy is connected with anger
Aidan Spiritor: Agree, unless we are trained to transform it and be mindful in the moment..
SophiaSharon Larnia: a different kind of anger management :)
Mickorod Renard: that, aiden is the way we need to go with anger,,get some anger management
Eden Haiku: Yes Mick, we do not see clearly. But maybe some archaic instinct in us knows better?
Liza Deischer: the problem i think is that we even dont notice that we turn a certain energy into anger
Liza Deischer: thats how fast it goes
Liza Deischer: we only feel the anger
Aidan Spiritor: To judge anger harshly is to judge ourselves harshly as well..
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Liza Deischer: but being on your gaurd, is not a bad thing
Mickorod Renard: well, I guess it could be argued that anger and doing things instinctly may have a purpose
Liza Deischer: youre right there Aiden
Aidan Spiritor: I would refer to it as being vigilent, being mindful..
Liza Deischer: but I think that has got something to do with the way we judge ourselves
Liza Deischer: and think we need to be perfect
Liza Deischer: that doesnt mean anger is a good thing
Mickorod Renard: but I think the wires have been crossed somewhere,,where we use that available to ourselves in dangerous conditions to breed into anger and so forth
Eden Haiku: Aidan, I agree that anger seems to have its own wisdom but I also feels it disastrous consequences. I guess that is why I judge my anger, I do not like it, I try to repress it, I feel guilty about it.
Aidan Spiritor: I believe judging anger as good or bad is not the point..
Liza Deischer: but we may be mindful and compassionate with ourselves when we feel anger
Liza Deischer: the moment we notice it, something different happens,
Liza Deischer: and that is a good thing
Aidan Spiritor: suppressing emotions usually creates other problems...
Mickorod Renard: maybe we can just observe that the consequeces of acting foolishly in anger are not the most effective way to resolve things
arabella Ella: one problem i guess is that some of us may be brought up to repress anger
Liza Deischer: true, but I dont mean suppressing
Aidan Spiritor: The trick is to not act out the anger and catch it before we do...
arabella Ella: although i consider anger to be a waste of energy which could so much be used elsewhere
Mickorod Renard: I aggree with that Aiden
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Arabella
Eden Haiku: Mindfullness then.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Raysa
Liza Deischer: yes, I agree Aiden, notice it
Mickorod Renard: hi raysa
arabella Ella: one problem I find though is that when others (as Satre said 'Evil is the Other' ...
Liza Deischer: and it most likely turns in something different
arabella Ella: when others persist in attempting to make us angry
Aidan Spiritor: The trick is to capture the energy of the anger and use it for good deeds..
Eden Haiku: ;-)
arabella Ella: then it becomes difficult to harness or ignore
Liza Deischer: true Ara, it isnt easy
arabella Ella: it isnt easy for me when the attempts made by others are persistent and repeated
Aidan Spiritor: BTW is any one getting angry wwith this dialogue.. :-)
Mickorod Renard: I think there are a wide range of issues that may need questioning re suppression of our animal instincts
arabella Ella: :)
Mickorod Renard: like for me I think we are tamed
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles @ Aidan ....
arabella Ella growls with anger ... he he
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eden Haiku: Angry no, sad yes Aidan.
Mickorod Renard: so that we can be treated like slaves
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Eden
Aidan Spiritor: Sad?
Eden Haiku: Yes, tears welling in my eyes.
SophiaSharon Larnia: my issue with anger is not with a particular person but general situation
SophiaSharon Larnia: or situations
Liza Deischer: but I think that is a mistake we make
Aidan Spiritor: More of a slave when we don't recognize and then act out our anger ...
Liza Deischer: we think we need to get angry to make sure people dont get over our bounderies
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Nully
arabella Ella: but Liza this is a bit like the difference between being assertive and being aggressive i guess
Liza Deischer: but I think you are allowed to defense yourself
Eden Haiku: I never thought that I need to get angry. And then I did.
Mickorod Renard: there are times that I wonder why I should suppress my anger..
arabella Ella: harness Mick ... not suppress ... in a positive way
Liza Deischer: not neccesarily ara
Mickorod Renard: was it kennedy who said,,,'dont get angry,,get even?
Eden Haiku: ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh boy
Mickorod Renard: he he
Liza Deischer: I even think you sometimes need aggression, but is that the same as being angry
Aidan Spiritor: Again, I believe the trick is to notice the anger, extract the essential message or wisdom it contains , don't act it out . extract its energy and move on..
Eden Haiku: Intresting point Liza.
arabella Ella: i did not say aggression is the same as anger, I tried to find a similar analogy</grins><grins><deal,>
</grins>

<grins><deal,>--BELL--</grins>

<grins><deal,>Liza Deischer: do we need to get angry and get carried away, or do we now how much energy we can use
Mickorod Renard: yes aiden,,and then get even
Liza Deischer: okay Ara, then I misunderstood you
Aidan Spiritor: Get even? With who?
SophiaSharon Larnia: will look into these practices to extract the essential message
Mickorod Renard: who caused the anger
Eden Haiku: Some people seem to do anything to trigger your anger so they become the center of your attention.
Liza Deischer: what caused the anger
Mickorod Renard: well, i have noticed that some can use ones own anger as a tool against oneself
arabella Ella: Aiden I am interested to learn more about building up what you seem to describe as a skill which I guess one gains with practice?
Aidan Spiritor: Anger is our response to a situation. I don't believe others make us angry.
Mickorod Renard: anger is for sure,,best harnessed
Eden Haiku: I do not beleive that either Aidan.
arabella Ella: But others do make us angry ... with for example lies or half truths etc
arabella Ella: or when they sling mud
Aidan Spiritor: Yes It is a skill and does take much practice..
arabella Ella: when they try to create grief
Eden Haiku: But that some use their own anger as a tool againt themselves as Mick said.
Mickorod Renard: I find it helps that some wrath is ok,,then one can stop it there,,quickly
Aidan Spiritor: Its you reaction not their action that makes you angry
arabella Ella: does their action not intend to provoke a reaction?
Mickorod Renard: some can press buttons
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Arabella, but most of the time I can see the psychological pathologies that cause them to do so, and feel some kind of compassion for that, although my anger over their behavior is still there
arabella Ella: especially if repeated over and over?
Aidan Spiritor: It may but they can't make you angry. Only you can do that..
arabella Ella: ah .... beginning to see the light ...
Mickorod Renard: being able to react more productively when someone tries to press ur anger button is a great skill to have
Aidan Spiritor: That would be a great opportunity to practice not getting angry..
Aidan Spiritor: Exactly..
Liza Deischer: right Mick
Mickorod Renard: have you all seen 'faulty towers on the tv before?
Aidan Spiritor: Yes
arabella Ella: yes
Eden Haiku: No
Liza Deischer: you have a teacher Ara
Liza Deischer: not a very nice one
Liza Deischer: I agree
Mickorod Renard: I love the sketch where Basil beats his car up
arabella Ella: what do you mean Liza?
Liza Deischer: when someone tries to make you angry
Aidan Spiritor: great example...
Liza Deischer: and we see that it is not the other one that makes us angry
Liza Deischer: but that anger comes from inside
arabella Ella: yes
Mickorod Renard: sometimes I wish I could be like Basil,,and be honest to my emotions
Aidan Spiritor: Isn't this fun now?
Liza Deischer: then the other person helps you to cope and deal with these kind of situations
Liza Deischer: it is not easy though
arabella Ella: yes ... that is an interesting way of looking at it Liza, thanks!
Aidan Spiritor: No it isn't easy.
Mickorod Renard: the anger does come from within,,but people can be very manipulating to get ones anger out
Aidan Spiritor: So we could say that anger has at least two sides, one destructive and the other potentially helpful..?
Liza Deischer: I still disagree Aiden :-)
Liza Deischer: but I think I see what you mean
Mickorod Renard: yes, very helpful if you want to trash your car
arabella Ella still struggles to understand more ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
Aidan Spiritor: When you get angry you literally lose your mind..why let soneone do that to you?
arabella Ella: nite Yaku!
Mickorod Renard: nite yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: night Yakuzza
Liza Deischer: nite Yaku
Eden Haiku: Night Yaku. take care ;-)
Aidan Spiritor: Nite...
Mickorod Renard: yes Aiden, i am managing well now to circumnavigate others attempts to anger me
Aidan Spiritor: Lisa--disagree with what please...
Eden Haiku: I avoid them.
Mickorod Renard: its a rewarding skill
Liza Deischer: lets put it this way, that I dont like the word 'anger'
Mickorod Renard: in fact,,I now see that i anger them
Liza Deischer: but we have described it in so many ways
Mickorod Renard: by not responding angrily
Liza Deischer: that I think you might mean something different
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Mick that does seem to do it sometimes :)
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Liza Deischer: something that you would call anger and I dont
Aidan Spiritor: I see what about the word anger don't you like?
Liza Deischer: I dont like to use it, in the same way as using the word God
Aidan Spiritor: ???
SophiaSharon Larnia: unfortunately, it is easy to play with that Mick, too, instead of dealing with it
Liza Deischer: there are a lot of emotions involved
Liza Deischer: so I would rather like to describe it then call it by its name
Liza Deischer: it is better to define it
Aidan Spiritor: Would you care to say more Liza?
Liza Deischer: then talking about anger, that might be used in so many ways
Mickorod Renard: maybe we can invent a new name for it?
Liza Deischer: maybe :-)
Mickorod Renard: Basil syndrome?
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Aidan Spiritor: Good one :-)
Liza Deischer: well I think Storms approach with the (how did he say that)
Liza Deischer: the powerful, constructive way, is a good description for me
Liza Deischer: knowing that it includes (in my vies) aggression when needed
Liza Deischer: but without the attachement of anger
Liza Deischer: to me anger is attachement
Liza Deischer: I think that is my real problem
Liza Deischer: it took a while :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i understand that
Aidan Spiritor: Anger arises from attachment?
SophiaSharon Larnia: the idea
Mickorod Renard: I think that is interesting liza
Liza Deischer: i think so Aiden
Liza Deischer: we get angry because somebody want to hurt us
Liza Deischer: or others
Liza Deischer: for example that is
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: or attached to how you think something should be or how it was
Mickorod Renard: also maybe if we dont get our way?
Aidan Spiritor: Or because we feel hurt..
Liza Deischer: yes
arabella Ella: or because they prevent us from achieving our goals or aims
Liza Deischer: all those things
Mickorod Renard: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Aidan Spiritor: All very well said..
Liza Deischer: Im sorry, but it was an intensive discussion
Liza Deischer: and I have a headache now
Liza Deischer: so Im going
Aidan Spiritor: And you helped us think much more deeply..
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry Liza, hope you feel better :)
Mickorod Renard: owww..chill liza
Liza Deischer: even though i would like to stay
Mickorod Renard: all is well
Liza Deischer: jst a bit of rest
Aidan Spiritor: Sorry, Hope you are well soon..
arabella Ella: take care Liza, good night
Liza Deischer: bye
arabella Ella: sleep tight
Mickorod Renard: bye liza,,go well
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye all, must go play a little after this discussion... :))
Aidan Spiritor: Hmmm..maybe I was too intense?
arabella Ella: :)
Mickorod Renard: bye sophia
arabella Ella: bye SophiaS
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Mickorod Renard: grin
Aidan Spiritor: bye
arabella Ella: you have been very enlightening Aiden believe me!
arabella Ella: thanks for your input to this discussion :)
Mickorod Renard: its nice to bring anger out,,and then trap it in a box and throw it in the sea
Aidan Spiritor: I don't like to see people get upset..
Mickorod Renard: are you going aiden?
arabella Ella: i dont think it is 'upset'
Mickorod Renard: noo
arabella Ella: it is more the case that when we have worries and speak about them repeatedly it may be stressful
Mickorod Renard: and anyway, its through these discussions we get to understand better
Aidan Spiritor: Well, it was very nice to spend time with you..
Mickorod Renard: and likewise aiden
arabella Ella: discussing a stressful situation may have the tendency to increase the stress sometimes
arabella Ella: especially since each situation contains so many variables which only the individual is aware of
Mickorod Renard: yes, I could feel the energy raising in myself,,but more like a game of squash
Mickorod Renard: playing life like a game is more fun
Mickorod Renard: and maybe thats why we are here
Aidan Spiritor: Anger is a difficult subject fo many people It loses some of its power to scare us if we get closer to it and try to understand it better..
arabella Ella: if we were to do this like playing squash Mick we would lose all the calories we need to lose this time of the year
arabella Ella: could you say more Aiden please
arabella Ella: how can we get closer to it?
Mickorod Renard: I think I understand you aiden
Aidan Spiritor: Just by sitting with it when it arises, examining it in all its forms, noticing where we fel it etc...
Mickorod Renard: I find that it is easier to manage anger when you have nothing to lose
arabella Ella: even though it tends to put us somewhat off balance when it arises?
arabella Ella: like we lose our even keel
Aidan Spiritor: That's a very good point and points the way to how one can safely practice dealing with and transforming anger..
arabella Ella: are there some questions we could ask ourselves when that happens Aiden which you may suggest?
Aidan Spiritor: Practice when it is safe so as to stay balanced when we are caught off guard..
arabella Ella: ah
Aidan Spiritor: The sooner you notice the anger the quicker you can transform it before it escalates...
Mickorod Renard: I like to ask myself how much harm I am doing myself when I am angry,,that could be health,,ie heart attack,,also image,,and also productiveness
arabella Ella: and ... waste of otherwise useful energy too
Mickorod Renard: at first one needs not to react
Aidan Spiritor: Yes untransformed or recognized, or suppressed anger can have all those conseqquences...
Mickorod Renard: react in a silly way at least
Aidan Spiritor: The trick is to not react out of anger...
Mickorod Renard: yes
Aidan Spiritor: It takes much practice...
Mickorod Renard: I am learning,,at first the older I get the more cantankorous I am,,yet thankfully i am becoming more thoughtful too
Aidan Spiritor: As we get more practiced we can shorten the time it takes to notice it and transform its energy into positive outcomes...
Aidan Spiritor: I notice it has gotten dark out...
Mickorod Renard: pab is a huge help in these matters
Mickorod Renard: and wok
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I have to go home
arabella Ella: i must go too
Mickorod Renard: thanks for the fun,,be well
arabella Ella: bye Mick bye Aiden
Aidan Spiritor: Yes it is a safe place to exchange touchy ideas..
Mickorod Renard: and to learn too
Aidan Spiritor: Bye Yes..
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