2010.01.30 07:00 - Contra Dancing of Guardians

The Guardian for this meeting was sophia Placebo. The comments are by sophia Placebo.

It all started with the question "how are you today?"

sophia Placebo: Greetings Eliza !
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia :)
Eliza Madrigal: Pillows are rezzing....
Eliza Madrigal: If we were in RL you are definitely the friend I would ask for shopping tips!
sophia Placebo: lol
sophia Placebo: not easy shopper in rl life
sophia Placebo: lol
Eliza Madrigal: :) Maybe that's why you play in SL?
sophia Placebo: i like to draw cloths and dressing the ava is the nearest to that i guess
Eliza Madrigal: Ohh, nice :)
Eliza Madrigal: How have things been with you Sophia. It seems a long time since we've talked...
sophia Placebo: good so far , no disasters so i cant complain
Eliza Madrigal: :)
sophia Placebo: how about you ?
Eliza Madrigal: Just fine, thanks :) Lots of things falling into place with my children, and well... just plugging along
sophia Placebo: :) cool
Eliza Madrigal: It is funny that when people ask me about my 'goals' or 'successes' I have to get through three other people's to get to so-called 'mine'... but it really is how I experience the world I guess. Hah.
Eliza Madrigal: Not doing that, and learning to just answer for myself, is a challenge I'm working with :)
sophia Placebo nods
Eliza Madrigal: I read recently, the talk you had with Pema re :Five Ways of PaB. I liked your questions...
sophia Placebo: i just wanted to understand
Eliza Madrigal: Well its funny, because sometimes I'm thinking "Oh I get all this now.. am really working with it" then read a question or a comment and realize Oh! There's another angle....
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: something I couldn't have put into words.. so helpful
sophia Placebo nods , happens thats why discussions are more intersting than lectures
Eliza Madrigal: true
Riddle Sideways: Hi All
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle! :)
sophia Placebo: Hello Riddle :)
sophia Placebo: how are you ?
Riddle Sideways: 85%
Riddle Sideways: hwo are you?
Eliza Madrigal: hehe... unpredictable answer
sophia Placebo: brilliant ! even if it meant 85% not good , you still alive and hanging
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Riddle Sideways: ah yes, but please continue with the topic
sophia Placebo: do we have a topic ?
Eliza Madrigal: We didn't really have a topic yet... had just commented that I enjoyed reading the 'five ways of pab" log with Sophia and Pema :)
Eliza Madrigal: Then that discussions are more helpful than lectures.... allows for unpredictability I guess!
Riddle Sideways: never really did like being lectured to.
Eliza Madrigal: lectures allow one to be passive...
Eliza Madrigal: so seems a slow road
sophia Placebo: i did , but discussions give your brain a chance to have a race with others thoughts
sophia Placebo: lectures give you chance to read your mind or the other person mind
Riddle Sideways: hi wid
Widget Whiteberry: Good morning....
sophia Placebo: Hi Widget
Eliza Madrigal nods... and Hi Widget! :)
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Widget Whiteberry: sorry to be late
sophia Placebo: lovely sweater !
Riddle Sideways: ok, now we can begin?
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza made the link

Eliza Madrigal: Seems we are discussing lectures v discussions Widget... and hm, unpredictability...
Widget Whiteberry: as forms for learning?
Riddle Sideways: probably
Widget Whiteberry: ty, I'll read this now
Riddle Sideways: if there is one expert with a lot of material to dispense, a lecture might be good
Riddle Sideways: outside of university I don't get that so much anymore
Eliza Madrigal: true... but a lot of material takes time and others to sort out and work with, so then dicussion would be necessary...
Widget Whiteberry: At Virtually Speaking, we'll have a guest in interview format - voice
Widget Whiteberry: and then the discussion in text
Widget Whiteberry: a free for all back channel
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that seems to make the most sense in SL
Widget Whiteberry: it's not the best 'discussion'
Widget Whiteberry: but it's not set up to be
Eliza Madrigal: In a discussion we really get a chance to see what/how we are knowing something?
Widget Whiteberry: I think it's very challenging for a group to stay focused
Eliza Madrigal: yes
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza!!!!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey there
sophia Placebo: Hello Yack
Riddle Sideways: Hi Yak
Eliza Madrigal: You are not drinking tea!
sophia Placebo: hello bert !
Bertram Jacobus: hello all ... :-))
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, went to the pub before the retreat :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertram!
Riddle Sideways: Hi Bert
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey, bert, you found a good cafe ?
Eliza Madrigal: Are you both travelling now?
Yakuzza Lethecus: tomorrow mornng
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh :)
Bertram Jacobus: wonderful cafe - yes ! :-))
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just hijacked one of the plenty open wifi´s :P
Bertram Jacobus: tz tz tz ... ;o)
Bertram Jacobus: i have cappucino with my legal free wifi here ... ;o)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
sophia Placebo: Hi Magic
Eliza Madrigal wonders why it is hard to stay focused in a group... hehe
Bertram Jacobus: and such a nice view through the hughe window front here ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Magic :)
Riddle Sideways: hi Magic
Magic Leimes: Hi sophia
Widget Whiteberry: seems to me that if we could learn to have discussions around this pond, we would have mastered something important
Magic Leimes: Hi eliza
Bertram Jacobus: you really wonder eliza ? ... ;-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey magic
Eliza Madrigal: ;D
Magic Leimes: hi Yak
Riddle Sideways: what... oh yeah focus
Widget Whiteberry: Bert, I think we need to share what we understand .... to be the dynamics
Bertram Jacobus: it´s simply because there / here are many minds, no ? ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: We would need to embrace/learn from the very nature of unpredictability!
Yakuzza Lethecus: so dd you guys have a topc before ?
Widget Whiteberry: more than a matter of many minds
Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza... a little bit. :)

Widget played the music

Widget Whiteberry: I have an example, may I?
sophia Placebo: sure
Bertram Jacobus: okay. - only one element widget *agree*
Eliza Madrigal: yes, please :)
Widget Whiteberry: Contra dancing is a form that involves many people
sophia Placebo love it
Widget Whiteberry: there are only about 8-10 different 'steps'
Bertram Jacobus: contra dancing ? what is that, please ?
Bertram Jacobus: ah
Bertram Jacobus: ok
Widget Whiteberry: it's based on scottish - irish - english folk dancing
Widget Whiteberry: American square dance is a simple form
Widget Whiteberry: but this is done in long lines and groups of couples
Widget Whiteberry: while there are only 8-10 different steps
Widget Whiteberry: the combinations of steps can be anything
Widget Whiteberry: so it gets quite complex
Widget Whiteberry: in order for this to work
Widget Whiteberry: to have long lines of people dancing together
Widget Whiteberry: to form the pattern of the dance
Widget Whiteberry: you need music to stay in sync
Widget Whiteberry: and you need a caller, a leader of sorts
Widget Whiteberry: so we all know the sequence of steps
Widget Whiteberry: now
Widget Whiteberry: one more pt
Widget Whiteberry: I've long noticed the similarity
Widget Whiteberry: between the way this dance works
Widget Whiteberry: and the way campaigns work
Widget Whiteberry: or some conferences
Widget Whiteberry: we each need to know the steps
Widget Whiteberry: and we each need a way to be in sync
sophia Placebo scartchs her head
Widget Whiteberry: and we need to have someone (could be a rotating someone) to look to from time to time
Widget Whiteberry: who is calling out the changes
Widget Whiteberry pauses
Widget Whiteberry: does that make any sense to any of you?
Eliza Madrigal hears in the back of her mind in a lovely Irish accent "Are ya dancin?", "Are ya askin?"
Widget Whiteberry: It does to me
Bertram Jacobus: i may be know what you mean ...
Riddle Sideways: makes sense
Bertram Jacobus: - be
Eliza Madrigal: yes, a bit...
Widget Whiteberry: on a field of battle
sophia Placebo: half sense
Widget Whiteberry: you need to be able to see the field general
Bertram Jacobus: i think, there are various forms to handle that -
Widget Whiteberry nods
Widget Whiteberry: we comprise a kind of group mind
Bertram Jacobus: with and without a leading person (groups talks i mean)
Riddle Sideways wonders about the lag time of sight, voice, internet over distance
Bertram Jacobus: but some have preferences - acceptable !
Widget Whiteberry: we each have contributions to make to any discourse
Widget Whiteberry: knowing when to offer them, which to offer, is tricky
Widget Whiteberry: I wonder if we could learn to do that ...
Eliza Madrigal nods... and a diff rhythm each time... even with a predictable 4 beats
Bertram Jacobus agrees
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: over the years, I have tried to shutup, but can't
Eliza Madrigal does not want Riddle to shutup
Eliza Madrigal: (even in the bell-hah, sorry)
Bertram Jacobus: some tasks are lifetime tasks ...
Widget Whiteberry grins at the timing
Bertram Jacobus: and i know it from myself - in some affairs i only can go on very little and slowly step by step ...
sophia Placebo: so whats our music ?
Widget Whiteberry: good question
Bertram Jacobus: the one from the chaostheory may be ? ;-) (music) :o)
Riddle Sideways: in your mind you think of the greatest addition to the topic, but find no opening to share :(
Widget Whiteberry: music is the thing that keeps us in sync
Widget Whiteberry: knowing we are recording might be part of that
Eliza Madrigal: I do like the imagery of the contra dance for this... people stepping into the dance, stepping out... being attentive to the flow and rhythm...
Eliza Madrigal: difficult online to see if someone is standing to the side because they 'find no opening' or because they are actually in the kitchen!
Riddle Sideways: please don't notice I was just in the kitchen
Eliza Madrigal: heheeh
Widget Whiteberry: on conference calls, we sometimes 'stack'
Widget Whiteberry: to indicate we hae something to add
Bertram Jacobus: i also experience that sometimes riddle - but isn´t for that the hint to let drop ? -
Riddle Sideways: was watching synchonized swimming lst night (daugther) and finally saw the underwater speaker to sync them to the music
sophia Placebo: i guess we dont have music per say , we like to stream our ideas sometime and/or keep them to ourselves , we go off topic or we miss the point cuz we are slow typers:)
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and the more we listen the more will work i guess ...
Riddle Sideways: or we stay on the unpredictablity topic tooooo often
Bertram Jacobus: "the unpredictability topic" ? what is that, please ?
Riddle Sideways: sorry, just before you got here
Bertram Jacobus: ah - sorry too - may i ask which one it was ?
Eliza Madrigal nods... so we are often, each hearing, the music, in different ways... which is the gift... and also the complication....
sophia Placebo: intersting
Eliza Madrigal: (hope Riddle isn't stuck)
Riddle Sideways: yes, I seem to be stuck (how do I stop this typing movement)
Riddle Sideways: ah
Eliza Madrigal: Oh darn... was hoping for an unpredictably long response! hehe
Riddle Sideways: nope
sophia Placebo: we need steps and caller i guess Eliza
Bertram Jacobus: ty eliza ! :-) (for the notecard and friendship) ... :-))
Bertram Jacobus: acceptance
Eliza Madrigal: :) ya Bert, ty
Eliza Madrigal: (the note is the beginning of the conversation where unpredictability was brought up- well 85% brought up)
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Magic Leimes: thank you eliza

Caller power !!

Eliza Madrigal: Isn't the guardian the caller?
Bertram Jacobus: great - ty again - fast reading a bit ... :-)
Widget Whiteberry: the guardian seems an obvious choice
Widget Whiteberry: when Pema is here, he seems to do that, although lightly
sophia Placebo: alright
Eliza Madrigal: I think we all do that... but difficult not to try to be caller and musician sometimes...
sophia Placebo: yeah Pema has the caller power
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Bert, can you follow up on your 'chaos theory' thought?
Bertram Jacobus: perhaps i may say that for me such a caller is not neccessairy ... hm - but as i said : accept all people´s likes and dislikes
Widget Whiteberry: if we can learn to focus our group mind on a topic, our discussions will deepen
Bertram Jacobus: it says to me eliza that all is linked with all and so ... also talks can be seen from one standpoint, with all the fitting elements and even seemingly not fitting ones ...
Bertram Jacobus: for that, for example we already have the topic meetings ... (shall be no contradiction)
Eliza Madrigal: So what looks at first chaotic can actually be seen from a wider angle as having a pattern...
Bertram Jacobus: yes
Bertram Jacobus: and makes sense
Bertram Jacobus: and even give a good feeling
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: when we play more with the elements as being(s) ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: ahhh.... !
sophia Placebo: hmm
Bertram Jacobus: you may see : the retreat was quite inspiring ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: yes I see that :)))
sophia Placebo: more with wiget in micro level , more with bert on macro level
Bertram Jacobus: :-))
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes....
Bertram Jacobus: lol . so nicely said sophia ! (even if i don´t totally undeerstand lol - can we ever?) ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: on a practical level
Eliza Madrigal: the email group, seems one thing we could benefit from using more.... to deepen conversations?
Eliza Madrigal: like an underwater speaker?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Widget Whiteberry: macro and micro are different views of the same phenomena
sophia Placebo: exactly
Eliza Madrigal: I have to go. So nice to see everyone! Thank you :)
Riddle Sideways: all the same, but we just saw it from a different point of view - Bob Dylan
sophia Placebo: bye Eliza !
Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza ...
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, nice note. Thanks Riddle. Bye Sophia, Everyone
Riddle Sideways: bye
sophia Placebo: i have to leave too , good to see you all :) have brilliant weekend
Widget Whiteberry: bye!
Riddle Sideways: me too
Riddle Sideways: thanks all
Bertram Jacobus: bye all leaving beings ... :-)
Widget Whiteberry: I'm not quite ready to go
Widget Whiteberry: is there more that needs to be said?
Bertram Jacobus: don´t know ... what do you think widget ? ... :-)
Widget Whiteberry: hmm,
Widget Whiteberry: my experience around this pond
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: yes ?
Widget Whiteberry: is often more disjointed than I would like ... what with all the dispirit inputs
Bertram Jacobus: ah - chatlag sry
Widget Whiteberry: in 1:1 chats
Widget Whiteberry: I can experience a lot of continuity
Widget Whiteberry: also sometimes in 1:2 chats
Bertram Jacobus: ah i see. can be a challenge - my point of view only. at this very moment ... ;-)
Widget Whiteberry: and in some IM groups
Widget Whiteberry: quite a bit of continuity that lasts a while
Widget Whiteberry: it may be
Widget Whiteberry: that around this pool
Bertram Jacobus: for me it´s a very nice place to meet others . from here outgoing, much happens to me. not only here -
Widget Whiteberry: we do not mean the same thing by the words we use to name a topic
Widget Whiteberry: when we do* name a topic, which is not always
Bertram Jacobus: but always there are linkin and differing aspects - we can stress the ones or the others ... or both -
Widget Whiteberry: part of that is because we don't all share a common first language
Widget Whiteberry: well, yes, Bert
Widget Whiteberry: but let's take 'identity'
Widget Whiteberry: there is a word that has multiple shared meanings
Widget Whiteberry: depending on the group of people using it
Bertram Jacobus: yes. more or less
Widget Whiteberry: so if we say
Widget Whiteberry: 'let's talk about identity'
Widget Whiteberry: we might first define what we mean by the word
Bertram Jacobus: agree
Widget Whiteberry: perhaps that would be a good practice
Widget Whiteberry: to focus our minds
Bertram Jacobus: perhaps. i think : sometimes.
Bertram Jacobus: not always
Widget Whiteberry: might be worth a few trys
Widget Whiteberry: I think I'll ask next time
Bertram Jacobus: because situations are so various
Widget Whiteberry: since it matters to me
Bertram Jacobus: nice idea
Widget Whiteberry: situations being 'various' is part of the puzzle
Bertram Jacobus: a puzzle ... ;-)
Widget Whiteberry: a puzzle of being
Bertram Jacobus: so many ways to appreciate ! ... ;-)
Widget Whiteberry: well, that's a nice note for me to conclude
Widget Whiteberry: I need to finish writing something
Widget Whiteberry: for Sunday and Thursday programs
Bertram Jacobus: needs ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: programs ? which are they ? if i may ask that still ?
Widget Whiteberry: I can send you announcements if you are curious
Bertram Jacobus: yes please. do so :-)
Widget Whiteberry: I gave you 3 so you can see there is variety
Bertram Jacobus: ok. thanks ! ;-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye widget
Magic Leimes: Bye widget
Widget Whiteberry: I'll try to return at 1
Widget Whiteberry: bye
Bertram Jacobus: bye widget - thaks having talked with us ! :-)
Bertram Jacobus: have a great time !
Magic Leimes: Bye Yakuzza. have a good day .
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye