2009.08.09 19:00 - Tao

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

Doug Sosa joined me followed by Pila Mulligan

stevenaia Michinaga: hi doug

doug Sosa: hi indeed, sorry couldn't find my local chat button

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

--BELL--

doug Sosa: in my mind? no, on the computer screen ..:)

stevenaia Michinaga: was wondering what you were doing in the meadow before

doug Sosa: well, shy.

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, saw your hands move but no words appeared

doug Sosa: hm. and like the grass. what if this were grass in here?

stevenaia Michinaga: so what brought you back to PaB after such a long absence, someone planted some once, there an image on one of the wiki logs.. a few months back

stevenaia Michinaga: they were more like a field of wild flowers, quite nice

doug Sosa: the real reason is that i couldn't get on. My laptop was using an intel chip second life wasn't yet recognizing, so i was stuck. all well now. Also, the retreat. thought i should be more here.

doug Sosa: What was the reason to give up the wild flowers?

stevenaia Michinaga: awww, are you going?

doug Sosa: yes, its pretty close.

stevenaia Michinaga: nice

stevenaia Michinaga: not sure the reason for the flower appearance or disappearance, but it was an interesting change

doug Sosa: I'e always missed the intimacy of the old pavilion.

stevenaia Michinaga: the first tea house or the second?

doug Sosa: ah, second i thin, wit the openness to the stream.

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the square pavilion with the railings

doug Sosa: yes.

stevenaia Michinaga: I have never sen this one filled up

stevenaia Michinaga: *seen

doug Sosa: i think i have but maybe not.

stevenaia Michinaga: but Storm did a nice job on this one

doug Sosa: terrific, but a little too solid for my taste in meditation.

stevenaia Michinaga: I'm sure he received much input on the design (like from me)

doug Sosa: hi pila

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila

Pila Mulligan: hi Doug and Steve

doug Sosa: pila we are talking about the space, and the old pavilion.. steve, what kind of input?

Pila Mulligan: this pavilion?

doug Sosa: and the one before.

Pila Mulligan: ah, pre-Pila :)

stevenaia Michinaga: I can;t remember them all, but a low wall around for a sense of closure w/ opening to walk through but also for seating

stevenaia Michinaga: space can be defined and implies as it is by the paving

stevenaia Michinaga: implied

doug Sosa: small, only a low able separating us. felt more intimate.

doug Sosa: the plants were closer

stevenaia Michinaga: the pond could be flush but then the additional pillows would be exposed

stevenaia Michinaga: for instance (turns pool off)

doug Sosa: ah yes. I've seen this. i like it,

Pila Mulligan: voila

stevenaia Michinaga: all you had to do was ask

doug Sosa: feels more normal.

Pila Mulligan: how do you do it Steve?

doug Sosa: can there be a little water in the smaller fountain?

stevenaia Michinaga: type "/9help" for a list of controls

Pila Mulligan: /phelp

doug Sosa: /help

stevenaia Michinaga: not quite Pila

Pila Mulligan: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: don;t forget the "9"

doug Sosa: "/9help"

stevenaia Michinaga: with out the "

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

doug Sosa: 9help

Pila Mulligan: nice, thanks

doug Sosa: wow.

stevenaia Michinaga: personally I don;t like the tall fountain so I always make it low

Pila Mulligan: too bad it cannot sprinkle now, tho

stevenaia Michinaga: never seen it w/o the outer cushions

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: interesting how it affect the sense of the space w/o the outer cushions

Pila Mulligan: true

doug Sosa: better and better!

Pila Mulligan: much more open

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, for small groups, like this

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: I'm contemplating how to build a small open outdoor meditation facility here in the RL rainforest where I live -- probably with a pond nearby

stevenaia Michinaga: all it takes sometimes is a change in floor texture to define a space within an environment

doug Sosa: the 90 sec seems longer to me.

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: could be, relatively

stevenaia Michinaga: I'd be happy to help Pila, when can you fly me out .. grins

Pila Mulligan: any time except tomorrow

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Mary

Pila Mulligan: hi Mary

Mary Korpov: hi

doug Sosa: Pila, i've had a few chats with soprm about that.

Pila Mulligan: we have a tropical storm arriving tomorrow

Pila Mulligan: soprm?

stevenaia Michinaga: I saw that on the internet

doug Sosa: oh, bit RL wow. are you both in hawaii?

stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before Mary?

Mary Korpov: yes

doug Sosa: sporm = Storm

stevenaia Michinaga: no, I;m in on the east coast :)

Pila Mulligan: oh :)

stevenaia Michinaga: have the disitability to do a project in Hawaii

stevenaia Michinaga: desirability

Pila Mulligan: I wish it was Storm instead of tropical storm visiting

doug Sosa: well, wen you fly to hawaii you can pick me up here in northern cal.

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: you are always welcome

stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like a competing retreat

Pila Mulligan: Doug I was interested to read a chat log about your tai chi practice

Pila Mulligan: Steve also started doing tai chi recently

Pila Mulligan: I've done it for a while too

doug Sosa: yes?

Pila Mulligan: what style do you do, Doug?

Pila Mulligan: I do Wu style

doug Sosa: well, i think it is the short yang, but so dependent on teacher.

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I am on hiatus as my wife broke her ankle and I have little time for myself, so I do it in my back yard

Pila Mulligan: yes -- but yang is the most prevalent it seems

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, exactly Doug

Pila Mulligan: that counts Steve -- I hope your wife's ankle is healing well

stevenaia Michinaga: I hope so to... :)

doug Sosa: my wife tore a tendon in her ankle, on crutches after surgery. I too am the gofe, but she is so cute slowed down :)

stevenaia Michinaga: remind me never to run a household alone

Pila Mulligan: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: stairs are quite annoying

doug Sosa: gofe = gofer

Pila Mulligan: so two tai chier with ankle hobbled spouses

stevenaia Michinaga: but her office is upstairs

doug Sosa: we are on the edge of a rier and the tai chi seems part of the flow.

doug Sosa: river

stevenaia Michinaga: so I do tai chi more on my own, which is nice

Pila Mulligan: tai chi in low surf breaks is very fun

stevenaia Michinaga: I have a nice grassy yard

doug Sosa: we are all fortunate.

stevenaia Michinaga: or my cat get confused inside when I do it, and plays with my feet

Pila Mulligan: some people near here are interested in meditation so I was thinking of a small rl place for group practice

Pila Mulligan: like a gazebo

doug Sosa: animals sense that it something interesting. I used to lead a small group up on whdbey island, and a local cat used to come down and well, i can't say tried to do it, but certainly was present.

Pila Mulligan: cool

doug Sosa: The old pavilion too i think is available. i have some colleagues and would love to have a place to meet with them.

stevenaia Michinaga: when I was doing yoga it was nice to do instead of think about it, I;m still thinking about tai Chi as I do it

Pila Mulligan: that will pass Steve

stevenaia Michinaga: I know, I feel the transition now

stevenaia Michinaga: in the parts I know

doug Sosa: well, part of tai chi is awareness. i especially like the cross body dialog. like noticing how the left hand and right foot stay in touch, or any other two parts.

Pila Mulligan: yep

stevenaia Michinaga: the weight change, the breathing

Pila Mulligan: I was thinking about the earlier here during the discussion on observing thoughts

Pila Mulligan: thoughts are often associated with a simultaneous physical sensation

stevenaia Michinaga: and the little voice that says, now this move breaks the opponent;s arm

doug Sosa: when i was leading that group i would talk it a bit using the day's chapter from lao tzu which i was learning to read in Chinese.

Pila Mulligan: why Steve :)

Pila Mulligan: I never thought such thoughts

stevenaia Michinaga: she touches on the martial aspect of the practice a bit

doug Sosa: nor i. tai chi is to avoid having to hurt.

Pila Mulligan: Lao Tse: I would rather withdraw a foot than advance an inch

stevenaia Michinaga: there is an advance class in weapons she teaches

doug Sosa: smiles

Pila Mulligan: swords

stevenaia Michinaga: yes

Pila Mulligan: sword tai chi is cool

Pila Mulligan: I've never done it tyho

stevenaia Michinaga: my interest in not in that aspect at the moment

doug Sosa: yes, i would like that, even if a bit out of character.

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: [it mists!]

doug Sosa: friends, i must rise and go now...

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, nice that it does that w/o water

stevenaia Michinaga: nice talking to you Doug

Pila Mulligan: bye for now Doug, nice to see you

doug Sosa: bye.

stevenaia Michinaga: I've been slowly reading about aspects of Tao as time passes

stevenaia Michinaga: for me it;s a comforting as PaB :)

Pila Mulligan: it is appropriate to read about it slowly :)

Pila Mulligan: you've got the Tao Te Ching?

stevenaia Michinaga: like a warm sweater that fit

Pila Mulligan: yep

stevenaia Michinaga: mostly from internet sources

stevenaia Michinaga: seems there are many translations and much commentary

Pila Mulligan: yes indeed

Pila Mulligan: part of the beauty of it is the variety of interpretations

stevenaia Michinaga: but ti has been around a while

Pila Mulligan: yep

Pila Mulligan: here's another classic -- http://www.iep.utm.edu/z/zhuangzi.htm

Pila Mulligan: first grab from Google about Chaung Tze

stevenaia Michinaga: thanks

Pila Mulligan: I was introduced to tai chi by Gia Fu Feng who wrote a popular translation of the tao te ching and also translated chaung tze's inner chapters

Pila Mulligan: http://www.amazon.com/Chuang-Tsu-Inn...9871761&sr=8-4

Pila Mulligan: http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-2...9871761&sr=8-2

stevenaia Michinaga: nice light reading I see

Pila Mulligan: :0

Pila Mulligan: actually it is

Pila Mulligan: hi Corvi

Pila Mulligan: how are you?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Pila. I've missed you, good to see you.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm well.

Pila Mulligan: yes, same here, nice to see you

Corvuscorva Nightfire: How are you?

Pila Mulligan: I'm fine, if a little anxious about a tropical storm arriving here tomoroorw

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Pila Mulligan: but is looks like it will not be a big deal now

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm glad

Pila Mulligan: it was a category 4 hurricane last week

Pila Mulligan: me too

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Pila Mulligan: Steve was reflecting on the comforting aspect of taoist poetry

stevenaia Michinaga: there

Pila Mulligan: like the tao te ching

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

stevenaia Michinaga: I was frozen for a moment

Pila Mulligan: welcome back :0

stevenaia Michinaga: seems like a philosophy of balanced contradictions

Pila Mulligan: yin and yang maybe --probably comlementary more so than contradictory

Pila Mulligan: but not the balanced in opposition

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, more correct

Pila Mulligan: balanced in opposition*

Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks..I think...that balance..not opposition is the key.

stevenaia Michinaga: and the need for a complement to define the other

Pila Mulligan: yes, but the contrast is also part of the interest

stevenaia Michinaga: no light w/o dark

Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks..I think that may be more about "noticing"

Pila Mulligan: then there is the emphasis, or the lesson -- the yielding overcomes the firm, for example

stevenaia Michinaga: soft overcomes the strong

Pila Mulligan: [example: rock erosion by water]

stevenaia Michinaga: nods

stevenaia Michinaga: much of that appears to be unnoticed in most beliefs

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness. All can know good as good only because there is evil. Therefore having and not having arise together.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: this is about what "appears"

Pila Mulligan: in the PaB sense, yes

Corvuscorva Nightfire: contrast is required to have appearance.

Pila Mulligan: contrast is also satisfying to the mental appetite

Pila Mulligan: the minds desire to describe

Pila Mulligan: but behind it all is the idea of emptiness

Corvuscorva Nightfire: exactly.

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, hard to have no contrast even in appearance

Corvuscorva Nightfire: the uncontrasted state..

Pila Mulligan: wu chi, in Chinese

Corvuscorva Nightfire: is interesting in itself..if we are quiet enough?

stevenaia Michinaga: like bening

stevenaia Michinaga: Being

Pila Mulligan: quiet is the real nourishment for the mind, even if it seeks something else

Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about this.

stevenaia Michinaga: it does provide fertile ground for new thoughts to arise

Corvuscorva Nightfire: but what if we can be quiet truly quiet?

stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking about this earlier

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Pila Mulligan: imagine yourself in a room looking at beautiful paintings and poems about Paris ...

Pila Mulligan: then realizing that the room itself is in Paris

Pila Mulligan: so you can step outside

Pila Mulligan: part is like thoughts

Pila Mulligan: part b is like real

stevenaia Michinaga: and about the Salk Institute, being built to have the ability of researched to see the ocean as part of their work environment

Pila Mulligan: :)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmm......that's a fertile quiet imagining, Pila.

Pila Mulligan: another Chineses saying: All methods take their source in quietness. This marvelous magic cannot be fathomed

stevenaia Michinaga: as I believe it was when Salk was away from his research in a quiet environment when he came up with the polio vaccine

stevenaia Michinaga: from quiet comes great thinking

stevenaia Michinaga: which , of course, made me think of Pema and how all this interacts with science

stevenaia Michinaga: seemed to be a good example of science working outside the research environment and the appearance of solution (on vacation, for instance)

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: allowing creative energy to appear in thoughts

stevenaia Michinaga: seems insight is never scientific :)

Pila Mulligan: but is can be in the context of science

Pila Mulligan: I agree, it is not a technical process

stevenaia Michinaga: we just pretends it obvious after the fact, or everyone would have thought of it

Pila Mulligan: not push button get insight

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: change environment, change perspective

Pila Mulligan: we are having the calm before the storm now, here -- it is like an archetype in itself

Pila Mulligan: very familiar, even if fairly infrequent

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

stevenaia Michinaga: like the ironic eye of the storm, must be something other than physics at work

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: beauty in that

Pila Mulligan: yes

Pila Mulligan: Steve and Corvi, would you have time to visit the nice pavilion Nymf put on my PaB guardian plot?

Pila Mulligan: I'd like you to see it

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, would like that

Corvuscorva Nightfire: no..not yet..shall we repair there and check it out?

Pila Mulligan: I'll send you TPs

Corvuscorva Nightfire: grins

stevenaia Michinaga: ok