2009.08.01 01:00 - Retreats & Learning

The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

 Yakuzza and I had a short discussion about learning/education and were then joined by Bertram... 

Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning scath
Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Yakuzza!
Scathach Rhiadra: How are you this morning?
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s ok, j had my first coffee, but i have to cook new :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: by the way what are you doing in ireland ?
Scathach Rhiadra: how do yu mean?
Yakuzza Lethecus: what you studied
Yakuzza Lethecus: what ur working
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I working in Banking Operations
Yakuzza Lethecus: you attended college ?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, studied Maths and Physics
Yakuzza Lethecus is scared
Scathach Rhiadra: heehee
Scathach Rhiadra: have forgotten most of it now!
Yakuzza Lethecus: math prevented me from attending college
Yakuzza Lethecus: somehow i had only blackouts when it came to analysis
Yakuzza Lethecus: and i could have only studied computer science or electrical engineering with my school background by that time
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i had to do something and just became a metal worker...
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think much about the issue if i just thought in the wrong way or if i am just not born for that stuff because i spend even more time on those topics by that time then others who did well
Yakuzza Lethecus: did you learn any foreign languages ?
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, only some Dutch, and dis French at school, but have forgotten that too
Scathach Rhiadra: did*
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i had english and french, in fact i was pretty bad in both of them
Scathach Rhiadra: oh, your english is good:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: and right now only my conversational english improved very much
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, but don´t let my write something important where good orthography is a must :)
--BELL--
Scathach Rhiadra: can you not attend college as an adult, mature student now, without school qualifications?
Scathach Rhiadra: that is if you wanted to:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have at least the fachhochschulreife
Yakuzza Lethecus: na, the issue for me is confidence

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bertram
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: hello yakuza and scathatch :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think about the issue how to talk about issues and how i think i got my beliefs
Yakuzza Lethecus: how to just create a positive environment where i even have many kinds of contacts i can bother with questions sometimes :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have a job, i have money and i still work on those issues from the past without pressure, the money pressure was pretty bad when i was at school
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Scathach Rhiadra: and life is a learning experience too
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods

Yakuzza asks about Retreats, RL centres and practices.....

Yakuzza Lethecus: do you attend real life retreats ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: how far are you in buddism ?
Scathach Rhiadra: sometimes, but not many
Yakuzza Lethecus: thx to this place i noticed that there is even a rl retreat 15 km from here :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i haven´t been there yet
Bertram Jacobus: where is that ? may i ask ?
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, do you mean a centre?
Yakuzza Lethecus: in germany
Yakuzza Lethecus: right a center
Bertram Jacobus: oh. i´m in germany, too. where exactly ? :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: for retreats in the forest near sundern
Bertram Jacobus: ok
Yakuzza Lethecus: sauerland, nrw
Bertram Jacobus: in the forest ? that means, not in a house ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: sure a house second i search for the link :)
Bertram Jacobus: i heard about a project that will be without a house if i understood that right. therefor i asked ...
Bertram Jacobus: + e*
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.meditationshaus-sundern.de/
Bertram Jacobus: tyvm :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but no i haven´t seen that place so far
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just didn´t know about retreats in general
Yakuzza Lethecus: before some people in pab
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, some go on retreats regularly
Bertram Jacobus: what was the longest retreat you did scathatch ? more then a weekend ?
Scathach Rhiadra: a week
Bertram Jacobus: great. and in which tradition was that ?
Scathach Rhiadra: Tibetan Buddhism, Kagyu
Bertram Jacobus: same like me (!) ... :-)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertram Jacobus: but i´m not so close linked to them anymore ...
Scathach Rhiadra: there are very few centres in Irleand, the nearest one to me (and the biggest) is the Kagyu centre
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: i see. i often said to freind too, it´s also a question of availability what one can find ...
Bertram Jacobus: friends*
Bertram Jacobus: sorry. did not hear the bell. but now : put my sound on
Scathach Rhiadra: yes that is true, also they often host teachers from different traditions

...and the subject of splits and schisms in Buddhism arises as Stevenaia arrives.....

Bertram Jacobus: oh. that´s great ! so it won´t be a centre of ole nydal i guess ? because they don´t invite other teachers in germany ...
Scathach Rhiadra: oh, no very orthodox, no Ole Nydal:)
Scathach Rhiadra: wb Yakuzza:)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. i was also at a orthodox orientated circle. the scholars of gendune rinpoche. do you know his mandala ? (dhagpo-mandala sometimes called) ...
Bertram Jacobus: oh. i feared we woul bore you yakuza. (puh) wb :-)
Scathach Rhiadra: like Thrangu Rinpoche?
Bertram Jacobus: and hello stevenaia :-)
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Stevenaia
Bertram Jacobus: ah. yes. but - orientated to the other karmapa
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, all this differences and splits:)
Scathach Rhiadra: these*
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i take it as koans ... ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Scathach Rhiadra: unusual to see you here at this hour:)
stevenaia Michinaga: indeed, I was wondering the same thing about me and the time
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: rere that I would be awake now
stevenaia Michinaga: rare
stevenaia Michinaga: waiting for a deam-like topic to emerge

We get back to the topic of Retreats, the upcoming RL PaB retreat and the building of an SL model for the planned RL retreat centre.....

Scathach Rhiadra: ha, we were discussing retreats and teaching centres in RL
stevenaia Michinaga: listens
Bertram Jacobus: but yakuza started the topic and seems to have serious computer problems now (?) ... :-/
Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i don´t have a serious pc problem :)
Bertram Jacobus: oh. good ! :-)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i like to listen since i don´t have real experience on that topic
Scathach Rhiadra: you are not going to the PaB retreat then, in a few weeks time?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i like to listen as soon as a conversation started, i like to hear about those topics sind they are new to me
Yakuzza Lethecus: you mean me ?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, or anyone else
Yakuzza Lethecus: i never flew anywhere in my life :)
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I am not going
Bertram Jacobus: i didn´t hear about it yet and have no idea how such a retreat can work (?) but sounds very interesting ... can you explain a bit scathatch please perhaps ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: at least so far, and california is a bit far away
Scathach Rhiadra nods at Yakuzza
Scathach Rhiadra: it is for 5 days late August, in a centre in California
Bertram Jacobus: ah ok
Scathach Rhiadra: there are only a few people going, mostly who live in US, and Tarmel is going from Australia on way to Canada to visit family I think
Bertram Jacobus: great
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: i thougt about if a retraet could be held up on virtual bases in any way too perhaps .....
Bertram Jacobus: should be possible i guess ...
stevenaia Michinaga: I think RL encounters with the people in the group open wonderful new way to see the indiviuals we have all come to know
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I can't see an SL retreat would really work, you would need the RL meeting I think
Bertram Jacobus: but ... could be an experiment ? ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: isn´t there an experiment 4 times a day ? :)
Scathach Rhiadra: well, are you still building the retreat model Steve, could try it out
stevenaia Michinaga: when you meet in RL, it;s like an entirely new group of avators :)
stevenaia Michinaga: aww, the retreat models... perhaps once I begjn to build here
Bertram Jacobus: yes yakuzza, but we could have even more experiments - if we would like to have ... only some thoughts , until now ...
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: the 9 seconds when done regularly could be considered a micro-retreat, in the midst of living maybe?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i agree
Scathach Rhiadra: don't have to go anywhere special, just exactly where you are
stevenaia Michinaga: the 9 secs are not times to interact directly with others except in silence, the reast of the 15 minutes is more about learning abut the 9 seconds
Bertram Jacobus: you think, the 9 seconds are so also to "interact with others in silence" stevenaia ?
stevenaia Michinaga: I suppose, but I haven;t found that to be the case for me
Scathach Rhiadra nods
stevenaia Michinaga: thinking back
Bertram Jacobus: i ask myself if that would be already silence (?) ... hmm ... :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: no, it;s more a way to interact with me :)
Bertram Jacobus: no, not already. sorry - still ! *blush*
Scathach Rhiadra: yes just being
Bertram Jacobus: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a nice partner
Bertram Jacobus: or even less as interacting, with whom ever, even oneself. as scat said : just being
Scathach Rhiadra: could be considered interacting with our real self or nature
Bertram Jacobus: at the top, i wouldn´t see anything relative anymore. more the absolute area, region, state ...
stevenaia Michinaga: or reading a book,... you are the book
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders who wrote that book
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
--BELL--

.....which brings us to questions of 'self'.....

Bertram Jacobus: and i don´t see the difference between the so called "self" and "i" - what shall that be, please ?
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, true nature, natural state are not the same as the 'self' or 'I'' which are dependently arising
stevenaia Michinaga: There was an interesting conversation at my wednesday 7:00 pm session there Avastu explained it clearer than most
Scathach Rhiadra: ah will have to read that
Bertram Jacobus: ty for the hint steve
stevenaia Michinaga: but I cannot http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...a00_-_Fullness
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Bertram Jacobus: but also "nature" ... a sometimes more then suitable word if one takes regard to it´s source - it comes from latin and means as much as "born" (!) ...
Bertram Jacobus: not suitable i meant
Bertram Jacobus: sorry ... i write not precise enough yet
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertram Jacobus: and there is a very big difference between the born and the not born things, ideas or however one could try to express this
Bertram Jacobus: and very often people mean the unborn when they talk about natural aspects ...
Scathach Rhiadra nods, or the essence
Bertram Jacobus: i sthat confusion ? may be my confusion, too ?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. exactly scat :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if unborn and what preceeds being born is the same thing?
Bertram Jacobus: it is said, from an absolute view they are same, from a relative not
Scathach Rhiadra: unborn implies beginningless, endless withour cause
Scathach Rhiadra: without*
Bertram Jacobus: i "have to" leave ... ty for this very nice talk - and may all beings be happy please ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, cya everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: good to see you again
Scathach Rhiadra: good bye Bertram, have a good day:0
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Yakuzza, have a good day too:)
Bertram Jacobus: ty all. i enjoid this morning session very much :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: you staying? I have to stay, my cat just places himself on my lap
stevenaia Michinaga: so typing my be a bit fuzzy
stevenaia Michinaga: may
Scathach Rhiadra: :) no, time for me to leave too, nice to see you Steve, have a good evening, or is it night?
stevenaia Michinaga: 5 am
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: oh early morning:)
stevenaia Michinaga: still dark, birds are waking up
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Scathach
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Steve, Namasté