2009.08.07 13:00 - thinking slowly

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

    I will give only a few comments since it is very late already and tomorrow morning I am leaving for vacation, sorry :)

    welcoming our new visitor Johny

    Lia Rikugun: hello solbill
    Lia Rikugun: solobill
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Lia :)
    Lia Rikugun: hello johny
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Johny :)
    Johny Weissberg: hi solobill
    Lia Rikugun: Johny have you been here before?
    Lia Rikugun: have we met?
    Johny Weissberg: no i dot think so
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Doug :)
    Lia Rikugun: so welcome to the Play as Being Pavillion
    Johny Weissberg: ty :)
    Lia Rikugun: hello doug
    Lia Rikugun: we are talking about meditation and well a lot of things
    Johny Weissberg: ah thats interesting
    Johny Weissberg: where does the name come ?
    Johny Weissberg: play as being
    Lia Rikugun: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Lia Rikugun: this is our wiki
    Lia Rikugun: pema pera came up with the whole idea
    Lia Rikugun: he is a professor in princeton
    Johny Weissberg: professor of ?
    Lia Rikugun: well the institute of advanced study
    Lia Rikugun: astrophysics
    Lia Rikugun: play as being as I see it is to take life a little lighter
    Lia Rikugun: play
    Lia Rikugun: and see things like appearances thangs that happen
    Lia Rikugun: and appreciate them as they are
    Johny Weissberg: i agree with that
    doug Sosa: hi, sorry to be slow, 'puter problem.
    Lia Rikugun: (my computer seems to be laggy too)


    the 9 seconds meditation

    Lia Rikugun: so what we try to do every day Johny is to take 9 seconds every 15minutes
    Lia Rikugun: and just drop everything
    doug Sosa: more than laggy, i removed laptop from large screen and the SL window didn't resixe so i couln't grab the corners
    Lia Rikugun: hm maybe this has something to do with the new version?
    doug Sosa: part of extreme meditation :)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Johny Weissberg: 9 sec meditation ?
    Lia Rikugun: Johny we are recording the chat log and saving it on the wiki, is this ok with you?
    doug Sosa: i moved because i couldn't see solobill
    Johny Weissberg: yes.. itry not to speak dirty
    Lia Rikugun: i see it as dropping all the layers
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: hello wol
    Lia Rikugun: nice to see you!
    Wol Euler: hello solo, lia, doug, johnny
    Wol Euler: lovely to see you all again.
    Solobill Laville: Ms. Euler :)
    Johny Weissberg: hi wol
    Lia Rikugun: I was just telling Johny alittle bit about PaB
    Wol Euler smiles
    Lia Rikugun: and the 9 sec meditation
    Johny Weissberg: sounds interesting idea..9 sec meditation
    Lia Rikugun: it is something you can do every day
    Lia Rikugun: without too much effort
    Wol Euler: that's only half of hte idea though: do it every fifteen minutes.
    Lia Rikugun: everybody has 9 seconds ;)
    Wol Euler: making it a constant part of your life, not a special event
    Lia Rikugun: yes wol :)
    Johny Weissberg: its eays the 9 sec..but to rember the interval..lol
    doug Sosa: i don't think many of us are precise about the when.
    Wol Euler nods
    Johny Weissberg: ok..i try i t tomorrow..lwrts see how it goes
    Wol Euler: try it now, in about sixty seconds :)
    Lia Rikugun: and well here we talk about our experiences
    Wol Euler: when the bell goes, we pause for 90 seconds of silence
    Johny Weissberg: i thought it was 9 only


    Johnys impression after pausing for 90seconds

    doug Sosa: so there is here practice and out there practice.
    Lia Rikugun: in SL it is more
    Wol Euler smiles and nods. Yes, it is; but we decided on a turbo version here
    Johny Weissberg: wow..i was really sharp
    Wol Euler: How was that, Johnny?
    Lia Rikugun: so how do you feel :) ?
    Johny Weissberg: lol
    Johny Weissberg: good vibes
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Wol Euler: very good :)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Johny Weissberg: real good idea
    Johny Weissberg: do u have special topics to discuss ?
    Lia Rikugun: no anything you would like
    doug Sosa: best to report on what happened in the 9 sec experiments, but we hardly make that a rule.
    doug Sosa: fir example, i have never been able to cntain the 9 sec. the mood of it spils over into the rest of the day.
    Wol Euler smiles
    Johny Weissberg: thats natural i guess
    Johny Weissberg: if u do it regurlarly
    Solobill Laville: Quite regularly, I would think, or other practices too :)
    Johny Weissberg: what kind of practises may i ask
    Solobill Laville: I don't know, I was only being speculative about Doug's practice, that is a sign of a pretty cultivated practice, imo :)


    Doug tells us about his meditation experience with tai chi

    doug Sosa: ah, well, in that case. i do tai chi, which afects the way i take dishes out of dishwasher and lace o shelves.
    Johny Weissberg: tai chi..i like that
    Lia Rikugun: interesting how so?
    doug Sosa: but need to careful not to do 9sec when driving in lots of traffic :)
    Lia Rikugun: i never tried tai chi
    Wol Euler: hehehehe
    Johny Weissberg: motion and silence together
    Johny Weissberg: neither have i, but id like to
    Lia Rikugun: does it make you more aware? i would guess
    doug Sosa: tai chi is like being a slow elevator.
    Johny Weissberg: the movements r very beautiful
    doug Sosa: actually, the moves are complex and you can explore how say the right foot remains in consant dialog with the left hand.
    Lia Rikugun: wow
    Lia Rikugun: i need to try :)
    doug Sosa: even if you are sitting and move your left hand aup and away a bi, your right foot must adjust to the shift in weight.
    Johny Weissberg: have u practised long tai chi, doug ?
    doug Sosa: up and away..a bit..
    doug Sosa: fifteen years..
    Johny Weissberg: wow
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Lia Rikugun: !
    doug Sosa: no big deal, look at how much you practice walking..
    Johny Weissberg: and how long did it take to start to feel like u r able to do it rightly ?
    doug Sosa: ah, the illusion.. after a few sessions it felt "right" but of course I was missing 96 percent of it.
    Johny Weissberg: lol
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: many things worth learning are like that.
    Johny Weissberg: do u need a techer or can u parctise it by urself ?
    Wol Euler: easy to start but fiendishly difficult to become really good at
    doug Sosa: A week ago I cam across a kind of blobby out of shape fellow apparently talking to a guy who was doing the tai chi with amazing physicality. I stopped to talk. Turned out the blobby guy was the teacher! Then he did a few moves. just amazing, like taking a porsche out of your pocket.
    Wol Euler: :)
    doug Sosa: you might use a tape, but most are really bad. I was fortunate to have a really good teacher, a cainet maker.
    doug Sosa: please do sit.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good evening
    doug Sosa: yes!
    doug Sosa: yaku, we are in the end of a 90 sec quiet period.
    doug Sosa: ok, done.
    Lia Rikugun: hello yakuzza
    Johny Weissberg: hi yaku
    Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
    Solobill Laville must quietly excuse himself...bye all
    Wol Euler: awwwwwww
    Lia Rikugun: byebye solo
    Johny Weissberg: bye solo
    Wol Euler: bye solo, take care, be happy.
    Wol Euler: come back sometime :)
    Solobill Laville: :) WIll do
    doug Sosa: yes, me too, half an hour and then back to....
    Wol Euler: /m smiles.
    Lia Rikugun: byebye doug
    Wol Euler: bye doug, enjoy the weekend
    Johny Weissberg: byy doug
    Lia Rikugun: so its the 4 of us ;)
    Johny Weissberg: four is stabel number
    Wol Euler: one of these days I'll figure out a way to follow Doug and see where he goes :)
    Wol Euler: he only ever stays for a half-hour
    Lia Rikugun: but its good he told us about taichi now i will try out!
    Wol Euler: mhmm
    Johny Weissberg: iv seen some lectures here in sl too
    Johny Weissberg: and its quite easy
    Lia Rikugun: lectures about what?
    Wol Euler: I was thinking this evening, walking home from work, that I must start doing the tango again
    Lia Rikugun: oh ok
    Johny Weissberg: just jump on the ball
    Wol Euler: hello bertram
    Lia Rikugun: hello bertram
    Johny Weissberg: hi bert
    Bertram Jacobus: hello, good evening all or what time ever is in your area ... :-)
    Lia Rikugun: yes evening :) for me at least
    Wol Euler: same here.
    Johny Weissberg: yup
    Wol Euler: a euro-meeting :)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Lia Rikugun: hehe
    Bertram Jacobus: plaese, don't feel interupted in your talk (!)
    Johny Weissberg: we just had a creative pause
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. great ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: but ... you talked about tango ? ;-)
    Johny Weissberg: and tai chi
    Wol Euler: I did :)
    Bertram Jacobus: okay ... :-)
    Wol Euler: physicality, movement, control, expression ...
    Bertram Jacobus: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: i see


    Wol is telling us about her experience slowing down while walking to the printer

    Wol Euler: I've been doing something unusual at work lately, while waitng for the printer. I've started walking very very slowly, one foot in front of hte other,
    Wol Euler: trying to take a full minute to cross a room.
    Wol Euler: it's amazingly difficult.
    Wol Euler: or perhaps that's just me :)
    Johny Weissberg: that sounds fun
    Bertram Jacobus: so some people practise "walking meditation" ...
    Wol Euler: yes, that's where I got the idea :)
    Lia Rikugun: yes will do that too but i dont know what my collegues will say ;)


    Johny is slowing down his thoughts

    Johny Weissberg: i try to do same with thoughts
    Bertram Jacobus: very nice. i did it already now and then
    Johny Weissberg: if i must work under preassure
    Johny Weissberg: i slow down
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Lia Rikugun: thinking slowly.. to get it clearer?
    Johny Weissberg: deliberately
    Johny Weissberg: to get it
    Johny Weissberg: lol
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: thats true you might jump obver some thoughts
    Lia Rikugun: otherwise
    Wol Euler: skipping over weak links in the chain of logic
    Johny Weissberg: nods
    Bertram Jacobus: and wol - you did not fear that collegues could see you ? :-)
    Johny Weissberg: and if u slow down..thoughts open up for u naturally
    Wol Euler: no, the printer is in the basement :)
    Bertram Jacobus: great :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: the thing with the thoughts - i nearly can't imagine that ...
    Bertram Jacobus: i had the impression, i would surpress something - no ?
    Johny Weissberg: i found tha if i rush with thougths, im repressing imortant tihigs..just to get rid of the process
    Johny Weissberg: and not enjoying it
    Wol Euler nods
    Lia Rikugun: i just tried to do it
    Lia Rikugun: but i imagined myself doing things slower and not the thinking was slower :)
    Lia Rikugun: maybe i need to practice
    Johny Weissberg: thats too result oriented mind i guess
    Lia Rikugun: or is there a difference? :)
    Lia Rikugun: what do you mean johny?
    Johny Weissberg: i mean when i hurry with my thoughts...
    Johny Weissberg: i forget the process
    Johny Weissberg: of thinking
    Lia Rikugun: ah ok
    Johny Weissberg: and want a result
    Lia Rikugun: and you think it is important to think you are thinking
    Johny Weissberg: no...
    Lia Rikugun: to realize you are thinking
    Johny Weissberg: just to let thinking happen
    Johny Weissberg: bu its own weight
    Johny Weissberg: by
    Johny Weissberg: like tai chi
    Lia Rikugun: so you are not pressing the thinking
    Lia Rikugun: it comes to you?
    Johny Weissberg: noo
    Johny Weissberg: yes
    Lia Rikugun: haha
    Lia Rikugun: no -yes -no yes
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Johny Weissberg: not pressing


    the thinking is coming, happening...

    Johny Weissberg: yes it comes to me
    Lia Rikugun: yes exactly
    Johny Weissberg: or through me
    Lia Rikugun: this is what would happen if you were thinking fast
    Lia Rikugun: the pressing
    Johny Weissberg: nods
    Lia Rikugun: (is this a corect english word)
    Wol Euler: "pressing"? yes.
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Wol Euler: drücken
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: which one ? pressing ? i would think : yes :-)
    Wol Euler: oder drängen
    Lia Rikugun: i was just confused avter saying it so often :)
    Wol Euler smiles. That happens to me too :)
    Lia Rikugun: ok i like this idea johny
    Lia Rikugun: and i believe this goes into the PaB direction as well
    Wol Euler nods
    Bertram Jacobus: to slow down ?
    Lia Rikugun: where appearances are happening
    Wol Euler: and to let things happen
    Wol Euler: rathe than trying to force them
    Bertram Jacobus: which is the idea ? to slow down ?
    Lia Rikugun: to let the thinking happen
    Lia Rikugun: and to let things happen
    Bertram Jacobus: oh. ah. i see :-)
    Johny Weissberg: yes..its like tai chi
    Bertram Jacobus: like here ?
    Johny Weissberg: u r active
    Johny Weissberg: but passive alos
    Johny Weissberg: also
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Johny Weissberg: seeking the rythm
    Johny Weissberg: or tango
    Lia Rikugun: I think it is a very interesting perspective and i will try this out too
    Bertram Jacobus: what exactly lia ?
    Lia Rikugun: to slow down the thoughts
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: ah okay :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a bit off topic, does anybody know a good text to speech program for 2nd life ? i am curious if i might listen to a conversation when i fall asleep so i could close my eyes :)
    Wol Euler: huh
    Lia Rikugun: i dont know i am sorry
    Johny Weissberg: speech program ?
    Bertram Jacobus: no idea yakuzza - sry
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nevermind :)
    Bertram Jacobus: but - lia and johny - i'm thinkin about the point, wheather slowing down thoughts couldn't be a step away from just being aware. and if we would do that : just being aware - may be that the thoughts slow down then now and then ... (?)
    Johny Weissberg: nods..u can do it botw ways
    Johny Weissberg: if u know u must do a work
    Johny Weissberg: u must think
    Johny Weissberg: the thinkin process is in ur mind...so i tend to let it happen..perhaps its a kind of watching..or meditation on thinking
    Bertram Jacobus: interesting ... :-)
    Lia Rikugun: i am sorry i will have to leave now too need to pack for vacation :)
    Wol Euler: oooh, nice :)
    Lia Rikugun: yeay! :)
    Wol Euler: are you covered for next week?
    Bertram Jacobus: bye lia then :-)
    Lia Rikugun: i still need to ask
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye lia
    Wol Euler: I'll take it :)
    Johny Weissberg: bya, have a nice holiday Lia
    Lia Rikugun: oh ok great thank you!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i will fall asleep during the law session now
    Wol Euler: yw :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: also bye everyone
    Wol Euler: have a great time, Lia.
    Lia Rikugun: so have a good night everybody
    Wol Euler: bye yaku, take care
    Bertram Jacobus: bye yakuzza ... :-)
    Lia Rikugun: thank you wol
    Wol Euler: yw :)
    Lia Rikugun: (i am invited to a wedding :))
    Wol Euler: ooh :)
    Lia Rikugun: so looking forward to it
    Lia Rikugun: hehe
    Lia Rikugun: ok good night you all
    Wol Euler: 'night Lia


    I had to leave at this moment and will not try to comment the rest of the session

    Johny Weissberg: ah late here
    Wol Euler: for us all, I guess. 11pm
    Johny Weissberg: goodnight wol, bert
    Bertram Jacobus: right here :-)
    Wol Euler: goodnight johnny, take care.
    Bertram Jacobus: good night wol
    Bertram Jacobus: sry johny i meant lol
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: so - you are not tired yet wol ? :-)
    Wol Euler: yes, but used to it :)
    Wol Euler: been working hard and long for the last two weeks, tomorrow will be my first day off since my holiday
    Bertram Jacobus: i see - and - do you do also other things in sl or only the pab related ones ? ... :-)
    Wol Euler: oh, I have many friends and activities here :)
    Bertram Jacobus: uh. so very busy most of the times ?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, my SL and RL look increasingly alike :)
    Bertram Jacobus: and you like that in this way ? :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: never too much ? ;-)
    Wol Euler: well I guess I do, else I would change it.
    Wol Euler: I do try to note my feelings, and back away if it gets too intense
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, we don't have all in our hands normally
    Bertram Jacobus: sometimes things run in anotherw ay as we would like it
    Wol Euler nods
    Bertram Jacobus: and ... "first day off" ? you had no free days even at the weekends ?
    Wol Euler: yep.
    Bertram Jacobus: uh. that's heavy !
    Wol Euler: spent both weekends moving the office.
    Bertram Jacobus: so you are very resilient (?) ;-)
    Wol Euler: we did the static stuff (old records, library etc) on the first weekend, and the active stuff (our desks, computers) the second
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - thats heavy ...
    Wol Euler: yeah.
    Wol Euler: most things worked properly right away, getting the internet and phones sorted took 3 days
    Bertram Jacobus: that's great - i sometimes think, that had to be like this :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: and when it's not - i'm unhappy lol
    Wol Euler nods
    Bertram Jacobus: when things go easy and fast - i like that very much ...
    Wol Euler: indeed.
    Bertram Jacobus: and in the times of internet and videoclips and all that stuff - the times to get things work always seems to shrink ... ;-)
    Wol Euler: well ...
    Wol Euler: things that work, do work faster.
    Wol Euler: but if something goes wrong, it takes much longer to fix than analog systems
    Bertram Jacobus: yes . and one gets used to smaller kind of time limits or "portions" (sorry - have not the right word ...
    Bertram Jacobus: oh. yes. thats true
    Bertram Jacobus: and do you do things in sl sometimes even after the meetings here ? (so late) ? ;-)
    Wol Euler: quite often, actually. It's the best time to meet people in American timezones.
    Wol Euler: I often don't get to bed before 1am
    Bertram Jacobus: ah yes. that's true again ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: okay, but that is still not "too heavy" ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: astonishing, how much one can do in 24 hours : work, sleep, play, eat, drink, doing household ...
    Wol Euler: heh
    Bertram Jacobus: and - if i don't hold you too long : do you do also some spiritual practices in daily life ? :-)
    Wol Euler: or: sleeping, reading, lazing about, taking a nap, sleeping again
    Bertram Jacobus: lol yes :-)
    Wol Euler: mmmmm, I find that question hard to answer.
    Bertram Jacobus: i LIKE to sleep ! :-)
    Wol Euler: I'm inclined to say "yes, but none that would be recognized by any formal religion"
    Wol Euler: that bit about walking very slowly, deliberately and awarely, was an example
    Bertram Jacobus: nice
    Bertram Jacobus: and the known forms of meditation - not interesting or fitting for you ? did you try them or practice already some of them ? :-)
    Wol Euler: I do Nines irregularly, mostly as centering and grounding exercises when I am feeling stressed
    Bertram Jacobus: i see. nice again :-)
    Wol Euler: I meditate irregularly, at least not in formal meditation
    Bertram Jacobus: at the moment i'm happy : my work starts late enough so that is time and a nice feeling to meditate in a open way nearly everay morning
    Wol Euler: I try to do the Appreciation exercises that Pema suggested in the course of normal life, seeing what there is to appreciate while walking to work
    Wol Euler: and while sitting on the bus :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i see :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: i'm also happy that here are people which with one can talk about all these topics ... :-)
    Wol Euler: it's hard to explain, but one thing I try is simply to say "yes" (inwardly) to everything I see.
    Bertram Jacobus: that's absolute not hard to explain ! ;-))
    Wol Euler: rather than thinking "that shirt fits badly" or whatever, just to see it and appreciate it without judgement.
    Wol Euler: and then, to say "yes" to/about it, and then to ask myself what that yes might mean. To look again, closely, to see if I can find beauty in it
    Bertram Jacobus: and that sounds wonderful to me ! :-)
    Wol Euler smiles. thank you.
    Bertram Jacobus: great ... so many ways ... i like that ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and the linking part in all these ways is for my understanding - simply love ...
    Wol Euler: mmhmm.
    Wol Euler: Love is the key.
    Wol Euler: it took me decades to undersatnd that.
    Bertram Jacobus: already the beatles knew that :-)
    Wol Euler: and it is still a struggle to live it.
    Bertram Jacobus: sure. i agree :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: but good even to know at least, at first ... :-)
    Wol Euler: oh yes :)
    Wol Euler: everything happens at the right time, at the time it can happen.
    Wol Euler: the teacher cannot appear before the pupil is ready.
    Bertram Jacobus: the tibetan buddhism says one way would say to get to know, to deepen it and then to realize, at the end stabile ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: not say, be sorry
    Bertram Jacobus: a bit confused ... (TZ) (me) :o)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: it is late, bertram.
    Bertram Jacobus: ("one way would ne") ...
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. very kind :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: but i think, that's not the reason
    Bertram Jacobus: it's more unawareness ...
    Wol Euler: mmm?
    Bertram Jacobus: lack of precision or something like that
    Bertram Jacobus: to much hurry -
    Wol Euler: ah, yes.
    Wol Euler: hurry is the enemy of appreciatoin
    Bertram Jacobus: then i write not exactly - thinking and writing are not well coordinated ...
    Bertram Jacobus: agree
    Bertram Jacobus: how long are you already interested in "topics like this" ? :-)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Wol Euler: well, all ym life really.
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - i like to hear that ! ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ups. the ninety seconds were not done before :o)
    Wol Euler: actually that is not entirely accurate. I was always vaguely aware of an unfilled need, but it was only in the last ten years or so that I figured out what to do about it.
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow. and what was the first you "did about it" ? :-)
    Wol Euler: I've always been appreciative of nature and appearance, but didn't really think anything about it. Certainly didn't think that it was worth valuing as an activity or a way to organize thoughts.
    Wol Euler: I spent a lot of time resisting my own desires, thinking that all this spiritual stuff was just malarkey
    Wol Euler: crutches for weak people.
    Wol Euler: the turning point was when I got low enough to admit that I needed therapy. My therapist gave me suggestions for breathing and centering exercises, meditation
    Wol Euler: and to my surprise I found that it works.
    Bertram Jacobus: :-))
    Wol Euler: It's hard to say that something is crap once you have felt it working in your own life.
    Bertram Jacobus: yes -
    Bertram Jacobus: and did you find other sources for these interests before pab ? :-)
    Wol Euler: not really, but then I wasn't actually looking either so perhaps it isn't a fair question.
    Bertram Jacobus: i see ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and how long do you already participate at pab ? :-)
    Wol Euler: I read a lot, and in retrospect it is clear that I was lookiing for something like what I found here.
    Bertram Jacobus: that was what i meant too - books can be a source -
    Wol Euler: Books like "The Magus" by John Fowles are explicitly about a kind of awareness and intense appreciation, similar to PaB
    Wol Euler: "Eyeless in Gaza" by ... ummm ... damn, what was his name? The Brave New World guy.
    Wol Euler: Aldous Huxley
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - i read it too and never had this perspective with this book (!) ... :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: Eleutheria!
    Bertram Jacobus: the magus
    Bertram Jacobus: lo. don't know that ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: but huxley "for sure" ... :-)
    Wol Euler: ah :) read it again, I bet it'll feel different after your experiences here.
    Bertram Jacobus: yes - i can imagine that ...
    Wol Euler: we should start a PaB book club!
    Wol Euler: so many books that one might recommend, tie in to our journey.
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. i have already now seldom enough time (!) ;-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: one could say it was a pity, but in an infinity - one MUST miss an unfinite amount of things - if i don´t fail ... :-)
    Wol Euler: oh yes :)
    Wol Euler: realizing that is a terrible and painful moment
    Wol Euler: but getting through it is a relief :)
    Bertram Jacobus: so if one doesn't worry - it would be better ... ?
    Wol Euler: one of the joys of getting older is that you are able to let things go.
    Wol Euler: to say "I won't have to do that again"
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ! i feel that, too ! :-)
    Wol Euler: or even "no, thanks, I don't want to do that"
    Bertram Jacobus: yes - getting more relaxed ... :-)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler: Bertram, I must go. I hve some errands to run before I log off (just like RL :-)
    Wol Euler: thanks for het conversation, I enjoyed it.
    Bertram Jacobus: okay. was very nice to talk to you and so i can learn also a bit more english ... ;o))
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: your english is fine, don't worry :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight, take care. enjoy the weekend.
    Bertram Jacobus: ty same same :-)

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