2009.08.09 07:00 - Watching, Hearing and Smelling

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

I sat for a brief time by  myself but was soon joined by Pema, Beltram, Wol and Claire and soon after, Eliza

Adams Rubble: Good morning Pema :)
Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
Adams Rubble: How are you this fine morning?
Adams Rubble: Hello Bertram :)
Pema Pera: fine! Had an early breakfast in San Francisco
Pema Pera: Hi Bert
Bertram Jacobus: hi adams and pema :-)
Adams Rubble: How nice :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Claire :)
Bertram Jacobus: hi claire :-)
Pema Pera: it's so nice to be on SL time in RL -- one more advantage of being in California, besides the weather!
Pema Pera: HI Claire
Pema Pera: and hi Wol!
Adams Rubble: Yes, the times match nicely :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
Wol Euler: hello claire, adams, pema, bertram
Adams Rubble: Claire, have you been here before?
Bertram Jacobus: hello wol ... :-)
Claire Maskelyne: Yes, I have.
Adams Rubble: Great! Nice to meet you :)

Pema mentions the email about watching thoughts to the group

Pema Pera: Adams, as you can see in my email yesterday, i've now suggested to the whole group what I suggested to you a few days ago, to watch the arising of thoughts :-)
Adams Rubble: yes :)
Bertram Jacobus: it´s funny : the seat position, which is here offered between others and which i choosed for the moment is one I practise in rl quite often for meditation ... :-)
Adams Rubble: Good morning Eliza :)
Bertram Jacobus: and it´s not so often to be seen at others normally ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: hello eliza ... :-)
Claire Maskelyne: Yes, I remember... the writing you had suggested to me about a year ago didn't seem to be helping much. :(
Wol Euler: hello Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Mornings and Hellos ! :)
Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: (Hi Claire, nice to meet you )
Eliza Madrigal: Hello, please don't let me interrupt :)
Wol Euler: we're probably all reading e-mail :)
Pema Pera: writing is an interesting addition to meditative/contemplative explorations, some like it, some don't . . . .
Wol Euler: pema's latest 100 days post
Bertram Jacobus: not me ;-) - claire ? did adams suggest you to write ? :-)

Pema then asks me about my experience with the exploration and keeps asking for more information :)

Pema Pera: how about you, Adams, how did the writing connect with your explorations the last five days or so?
Pema Pera: Bertram, did you not get the emails from the group?
Bertram Jacobus: sry. yes, i got and read it already ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: hello doug
Adams Rubble: Some of the things that seem to be appearing are quite personal

Doug appears

Adams Rubble: Hello Doug
Pema Pera: hi Doug
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Doug :)
Adams Rubble: In some ways they are interfering with my looking
Adams Rubble: I am in an interesting place
doug Sosa: (hi)
Adams Rubble: I haven't written back yet this morning but I will
Claire Maskelyne: Hello, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: But yes, I think it is helping Pema :)
Pema Pera: can you say more, Adams?
Claire Maskelyne: I write in a different venue now, but it's nerve-wracking sometimes.
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: hello doug
Wol Euler: claire, one change since you were last here is that we take a 90 second pause for silent contemplation every 15 minutes
Adams Rubble: Maybe when we are faced with new challenges, it takes a while to see them?
Adams Rubble: but my thoughts are rather hidden when I look now
Adams Rubble: not as clear cut as before
Adams Rubble: kind of fuzzy
Pema Pera: when you look do you see thoughts appearing?
Pema Pera: how would you describe it?
Adams Rubble: all wrapped together in a big ball of enrgy
Pema Pera: can you be more specific?
Adams Rubble: with things shooting out very quickly
Adams Rubble: so fast I can not see them...just flashes of light
Pema Pera: you sit there, you watch, and what happens? directly a ball of energy?
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: No pema
Adams Rubble: First just darkness...it emerges slowly
Adams Rubble: not all the time...just sometimes
Bertram Jacobus: i experience my thoughts only when they are already in my mind. they don´t seem to "come" from anywhere. suddenly i experience them. they disappear in the same way : suddenly. that´s all i experience. and between them sometimes : nothing
Pema Pera: so when you relax, after a while there is a whole barrage of mental events, like thoughts or feelings, that take on the shape of a ball of energy, from which the events appear as flashes? Sorry, Adams, I'm just trying to picture-- is that close to correct?
Claire Maskelyne: I feel something like invisible walls in my mind.
Adams Rubble: It is morre when I concentrate; I see it is there out of my reach

I bring in a dream from the night before

Adams Rubble: I had a dream last night
Adams Rubble: In my dream I was taking people from different areas in my real life and putting them together on a prject
Adams Rubble: You were there Pema :)
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Rubble: and we were all working together harmoniously
Wol Euler: just out of curiosity, were you "Adams" or ***?
Adams Rubble: I was my RL self and so was pema :)
doug Sosa: This sense f thoughts coming of their own mostof us feel. Yet i notice when i am realy involved with something, lets ay the dsign of a path in the garden, and i am in it so to speak much of the time, that the thoughts that come "fit" what i've been strugging with, and while they stil come , it feels like more a partnership than just random.
Pema Pera: what happened in your dream, Adams?
Adams Rubble: The group was putting together shards of pottery and recreating the vases
Adams Rubble: You got a big grant so we could do it
Adams Rubble: I created a database and was starting to catalog the shards
Adams Rubble: everyone was working together harmoniously
Claire Maskelyne only wishes her dreams were that interesting.
Pema Pera: (yes, Bert and Doug, we may not be able to actually spot how thoughts arise, but trying to watch them arising is an interesting exploration, one recommended in various traditions)
Pema Pera: how did you feel after waking up, looking back on the dream, Adams?
Adams Rubble: I thought, so that is what I am trying to do. hehe
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: :)
Adams Rubble: put together the pieces

Doug adds another twist which I missed at the time. This may or may not be relevant to my dream since it is sugggested by an exhibition I saw a week ago

doug Sosa: something was whole that was then broken,then put together. It seems like a restore.
Pema Pera: How nice to get a little help from your friends :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler hums a certain Beatles song.
Adams Rubble: in this case trying to put together the people
Bertram Jacobus: do you experience that differently Pema ? do you (or somebody else) see thoughts arise different to suddenly ?

Pema looks for a connection between my dream and my thoughts

Pema Pera: what is the connection between the dream and trying to see the appearing of your throughts, if I may ask, Adams?
Pema Pera: hard to put in words, Bert . . . .
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Well...
Pema Pera: I find that trying to watch arising of thoughts does change awareness, especially when you do it for a long time, over the years

I miss a bell completely

--BELL--
Pema Pera: but already also when you do it just for a few days
Adams Rubble: I have been thinking about my own appearances
Adams Rubble: Another thing I am trying to put together. hehe
Adams Rubble: whoops
Bertram Jacobus: shhh ? ;-)
Adams Rubble: sorry evryone
Pema Pera: :)
Adams Rubble: I was looking at my keyboard
Pema Pera: as you can see, it happens to the best of us!
Bertram Jacobus: so it changes awareness. very interesting and promising. but do you experience thougts appear in a different way as suddenly Pema ? ;-)
Pema Pera: but if you don't mind, can we go back and go really really slowly, Adams
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: can you really describe, slowly, in detail
Adams Rubble: which part?
Pema Pera: sharing with us what happens when you sit down, you relax
Pema Pera: and then what, what happens?
Pema Pera: perhaps
Adams Rubble: oh my

Pema asks for more specifics

Pema Pera: start by describing even the relaxing, from the very beginning
Wol Euler smiles encouragingly
Adams Rubble: I get the best result if I close my eyes (unless I am tired in which case I fall asleep)I
Adams Rubble: zzzz
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: so you sit down, on a chair?
Pema Pera: and then close your eyes?
Pema Pera: and then what happens?
Adams Rubble: Yes, I usually am already seated
Adams Rubble: I close my eyes and there is darkness there
Adams Rubble: I often see images
Adams Rubble: especially if I am at work and have been looking at images
Adams Rubble: Or of not, I see a thought related to what i have been doing
Adams Rubble: and then nothing
Adams Rubble: in the evening I have been doing this during the 20 minute meditation time at zazen here at the zen retreat
Pema Pera: great time to do it!
Adams Rubble: it is during this longer period when the ball of energy appears
Pema Pera: "then nothing" -- nothing for how long? 3 seconds? 5 seconds? longer?
Adams Rubble: I have been observant enough to think of times
Adams Rubble: the ball of enrgy lasts for a bit
Adams Rubble: enough to notice the light shooting from it, one every few seconds or so
Adams Rubble: like a flash of light shooting out of my vision rfeference point
Pema Pera: ah, so it appears like an actual image, not only a sense or association
Adams Rubble: I can picture it
Adams Rubble: not describe it
Pema Pera: and no words associated with it?
Adams Rubble: no
Pema Pera: you're doing pretty well describing it, Adams :)
Pema Pera: can you still with the image indefinitely?
Pema Pera: what happens if you try to relax and stay with it?
Adams Rubble: I haven't tried because I was expecting something else to emerge so I don't know. I can picture it now
Pema Pera: ah, expectations - THOSE you have to drop
Adams Rubble giggles
Wol Euler nods
Pema Pera: remember, you're like an old person on a bench in a park, just watching what passes by
Pema Pera: no interference, no hope no fear no judgments just watch

Oh, and I felt sooo young....

Pema Pera: it really would be good to keep watching the image, without any sense of manipulation or interpretation
Pema Pera: like in Tilopa's six words of advice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilopa#...ords_of_Advice

Pema takes the exercise to the group and some very good descriptions come up.  Some of the words woudl explain what I has been unable to explain or notice

Pema Pera: I suggest we all try this for 90 seconds, when the next bell goes off
Wol Euler smiles. good idea.
Pema Pera: it is *very* unlikely that you won't have any thoughts coming up to watch during 90 seconds :-)
Adams Rubble: ah yes, was looking at those the other day but did not relate them
Bertram Jacobus: (took them to my favourites) (ty) ...
Pema Pera: we are SO used to watching thoughts for their meaning, milking them like a cow to get the meaning out . . .
Pema Pera: . . . we barely knows what it means to just watch them
Pema Pera: without milking . . . .
Bertram Jacobus: but pema ... sry - did you read my last question ? ...
Pema Pera: can you repeat it Bert?
Bertram Jacobus: i try to find it (scrolling) ...
Pema Pera: meanwhile, do we all know what to do in the next 90 seconds break?
Pema Pera: just watching the arising of thoughts?
Wol Euler nods
Bertram Jacobus: o it changes awareness. very interesting and promising. but do you experience thougts appear in a different way as suddenly pema ? ;-)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: to answer Bert briefly: many ways, like also what Doug said -- but for now, I'd like to hear what you all experienced

Wol goes first

Wol Euler grins. That was interesting.
Bertram Jacobus: i hope that is not to insisting ? ...
Pema Pera: how so, Wol?
Pema Pera: and others?
Pema Pera: feel free to all type your responses to the exploration, don't be shy!
Bertram Jacobus: i only feel a kind of being relaxed ...
Wol Euler: well, I realized that there are always thoughts going on, it's a constant stream or the surface of a lake of thought
Wol Euler: when I believe that I am not thinking, I realized that here is a thought of "now I am not thinking at all"
Eliza Madrigal nods!!
Pema Pera: !!!
Wol Euler: and then "me" thinking about that thought about not thinking...
Pema Pera: isn't it fun, to have fun playing with your own mind, watching your own mind play -- always at hand!
Wol Euler: but the thoughts come _down_ to me, like flakes of snow or rather like letters on torn paper
Claire Maskelyne: Oh...
Claire Maskelyne: I wish it were like that for me.
Wol Euler: tell us more?
Pema Pera: to whom, Wol?
Wol Euler: claire
Adams Rubble: nicely put Wol :)

Claire describes how her thoughts appear

Claire Maskelyne: Mine just seem to swirl sullenly, like dark, stagnant water.
Claire Maskelyne: And they follow a prgression from left to right, like a book, which only makes me fearful of the storiy's termination.
Claire Maskelyne: Anything that goes in that direction does.
Bertram Jacobus: and i´m a bit bored ...
Wol Euler: hmmmm
Adams Rubble: A few months ago I saw something similar Claire
Adams Rubble: I saw a big stage
Adams Rubble: the thoughts came from behind the curtain on the right
Adams Rubble: danced on the dtage for a bit
Adams Rubble: and then moved off the front of the dtage on the left

Paradise joins us here

Pema Pera: Hi Paradise!
Bertram Jacobus: hello paradise ... :-)
Adams Rubble: Hello Paradise
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :)
Wol Euler: Bertram, would you like to tell us abou your thoughts?
Wol Euler: hello paradise
Paradise Tennant: hello pema bertram adams wol eliza :))
Bertram Jacobus: tyvm for your compassion wol. they are not very intersting. they are very usual and everyday orientated. and then they are not active as it seems. only a relaxed feeling then - nothing more
Claire Maskelyne: But I meant they do that all the time.
Pema Pera: (Paradise: we're talking about an exploration we all did during the last 90 seconds break: watching how thoughts arise)

Then Eliza describes what she saw

Eliza Madrigal: My heart is fluttering a bit this morning, and what I saw was little light flashes which I thought I needed to get comfortable with. When I did there was a stillness which makes way for another kind of thought... more inward up..but that didn't really come yet. The fluttering has continued... prob. due to vitamin C I had this morning :)
Paradise Tennant: thank you
Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, that's a beautiful description of what begins to happen when you switch from the content of thoughts to the sheer appearing of thought
Pema Pera: and no need to interpret
Pema Pera: vitamin C or not :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: and Eliza's description is an answer to Bert's question
Pema Pera: of what can happen
Pema Pera: but each time is different
Pema Pera: it seems boring as long as you focus on content
Wol Euler: Claire, that image fits well to things you've said about feeling trapped socially
Claire Maskelyne: I feel stifled... it's very hard to talk about this because I begin to feel panic... and remember the bad things...
Pema Pera: but focus on texture, everything gets interesting
Claire Maskelyne: I feel like I need to go.
Eliza Madrigal: Anxiety has been a real issue in my life also Claire. This helps :)
Wol Euler nods
Adams Rubble: No need to feel you have to talk about them Claire
Pema Pera: Bert, does it make sense, to watch the thoughts, like pages in a book that you don't have to read, just admire the color, the shape, the texture?
Adams Rubble: yes, many of us have felt anxiety here too
Bertram Jacobus: takes a deep breath ...
Pema Pera: the shape of the letters?
Pema Pera: the smell, the feel?
Pema Pera: the way the light reflects off it?
Wol Euler smiles
Paradise Tennant: :)) focus always brings you to your senses :)
Pema Pera: !!!
Wol Euler: in many senses :)
Bertram Jacobus: i´m not sure, i don´t know - what is sense ? may be - i always aim to the ultimate, the only real sense i know - if there is something like that. i don´t know. but it feels nice
Pema Pera: in more than one way
Wol Euler: (pause coming up :)
Pema Pera: the "ultimate" is a thought, Bert, just drop that thought and you may finally have room for what really is ulltimate!
Pema Pera: so let's all do it again, during the next 90 seconds break!
Bertram Jacobus: i know : words must fail here
Pema Pera: watching the arising of thoughts, without judging them
--BELL--

Bertram's turn

Bertram Jacobus: i don´t feel any arising. only thoughts or no thoughts
Adams Rubble nods to Bertram
Pema Pera: any gaps between thoughts, Bert?
Pema Pera: do you see the beginning and end of a thought?
Bertram Jacobus: sure. i already wrote it a few times today
Pema Pera: how does that feel, that gap?
Bertram Jacobus: i only see beginning and end of words or contents of the thoughts
Bertram Jacobus: the gap is nice. relaxed
Wol Euler: good :)
Pema Pera: great!
Claire Maskelyne: Now if I try to think of it, I start to panic...
Pema Pera: those gaps can be enormous sources of energy and creativity, but we can't make them happen
Wol Euler: do you think that you might hold on to thte gap, get its flavour?
Claire Maskelyne: I'm sorry... but I've come to associate this excercise only with the pain I desperately try to allivate with it.
Wol Euler: I'm sorry to hear it, Claire.
Claire Maskelyne: And now is the worst time for me...
Pema Pera: you don't have to do this kind of exploration if it makes you feel pain, Claire
Bertram Jacobus: may it be better very soon claire
Eliza Madrigal: It can be very difficult to sit with 'everything' at first, yes
Claire Maskelyne: Then what else can I do?
Claire Maskelyne: Sitting with it? No. I've had my fill of that long ago.
Pema Pera: if possible, Claire, just watch the pain . . . if you can
Pema Pera: you are among friends
Pema Pera: not alone
Wol Euler nods
Paradise Tennant: well simple works best on all fronts ..you do not ignore the pain but try to shift your focus to your breath
Paradise Tennant: breath is relazing neutral .. easy
Paradise Tennant: the pain is perception just like everything else
Pema Pera: yes, phenomena, appearances . . . .
Adams Rubble: Nicley put, paradise :)
Pema Pera: the base level "stuff" of everything, so-called inner and so-called outer
Pema Pera: in any situation we can stop trying to prop ourselves up, and instead rest on the basic level of phenomena, our ground; and then we can recognize Being as the ground of our ground, the ground of what appears
Claire Maskelyne: Please... just stop talking.
Claire Maskelyne: I feel like it's getting worse.
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Claire Maskelyne: I'm so sorry...
Bertram Jacobus: i understand that claire
Wol Euler: take that LM, claire, I'll meet you there.
Claire Maskelyne: Okay...
Wol Euler: bye for now, friends.
Paradise Tennant: take care
Adams Rubble: bye Wol :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Wol (and Claire)
Pema Pera: thanks for stopping by again, Claire!
Bertram Jacobus: bye much success !
Bertram Jacobus: i know that - some persons experience first heavy bad feelings ...
Eliza Madrigal: yes, sometimes good to have someone in physical presence to help with that level of anxiety
Bertram Jacobus: or even for a long time

Gaya pops in

Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
Eliza Madrigal: panic attacks, etc
Bertram Jacobus: hello gaya ... :-)
Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya gaya
Paradise Tennant: :))
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :) A little bird told me you all are still at PaB.
Bertram Jacobus: yes eliza. would be fine ...
Pema Pera: Gaya, we've been doing a little exploration, each time during the 90-sec breaks: very simple, just watching thoughts arising, without judging, without looking at the contents of thoughts, only just watching them appear and disappear
Pema Pera: we'll do it again in a couple minutes
Eliza Madrigal: May I throw out the thoughts I wrote out the last experiment ?
Pema Pera: please!
Gaya Ethaniel nods ok :) I read your email.

Eliza gives a more poetic description

Eliza Madrigal: bell, bird, "Am I watching", eyes fluttering, swaying, thoughts 'feel' so different than they 'used to', "should let that idea of used to go"
Paradise Tennant: :))
Paradise Tennant: poetic
Paradise Tennant: lovely
Pema Pera: direct!
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: The directness is something I notice more and more
Pema Pera: simple -> direct
Gaya Ethaniel: You mean simpler?
Gaya Ethaniel: Snap :)
Pema Pera: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: Gaya, how did you go, if I may ask?
Bertram Jacobus: i ask myself, wheather that also can be a quality of time, because ... i experience this too in the last month - getting more and more simple, in one way
Bertram Jacobus: and thoughts - sry - like before ;-)
Pema Pera: sry?

Paradise paints us a vivid image

Paradise Tennant: what I notice most is how i slow down .. become aware of sensations ..my breath how my chest moves in and out .. with each inhalation .. smells become more intense .. the fragrance of the coffee sitting warm on my desk .. it is away of touching right now
Bertram Jacobus: because of the other topic. was still from before the pause
Pema Pera: beautiful, Paradise, yes, simple and direct!
Eliza Madrigal: :) Nice, Paradise. I smell your coffee..hehe
Paradise Tennant: and sadly I must go ..I have a small dog .. who is very much in the now .. and needs to go outside :)) big wave from toronto :)
Adams Rubble: bye Paradise :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Paradise :)

..and Gaya describes what she saw

Gaya Ethaniel: My 'thoughts' were mainly about body awareness, breathing, posture etc. I think it's because I am a little tired [husband getting over swine flu].
Pema Pera: bye Paradise!
Bertram Jacobus: bye paradise ! ... :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Paradise :)
Paradise Tennant: bye everyone and thank you as always :))
Pema Pera: can you say more, Gaya, how it appeared?
Bertram Jacobus: your husband has to work with it i hope ? he is not ill with it, no gaya ?
Pema Pera: wb Wol!
Eliza Madrigal: WB Wol :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I notice sounds ie computer running more than what I see on the screen.
Wol Euler: hello gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Almost over it I think thank you :)
Adams Rubble: wb Wol :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Mum!
Wol Euler smile
Wol Euler: +s
Bertram Jacobus: uh. okay (!) ...
Gaya Ethaniel gathers words to describe more ...
Bertram Jacobus: and wb wol also :-)
Wol Euler: ty
Pema Pera: yes, Gaya?

Yakuzza fills out the group while Gaya continues

Pema Pera: Hi Yak!
Bertram Jacobus: hello yakuzza ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Yakuzza :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Yakussa :)
Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hiya
Gaya Ethaniel: As I notice breathing, I feel my heart beathing and that also slows down ... feel my posture out of balance ... realising myself being a little tired. I don't force to correct it ... just continue breathing pulling up then letting it go down.
Yakuzza Lethecus: you guys are in overtime :)
Gaya Ethaniel: heart beating*
Gaya Ethaniel: And all the while awareness of sound around me increased.
Gaya Ethaniel: [end :) ]
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Lazy summer afternoon for some

Pema Pera: Yak, we're having a longish lazy Sunday morning session, in which we spend the 90-sec break by watching our thoughts appear -- not looking at what they mean, but just watching their way of appearing, like looking at the shape of a letter or word, rather than its meaning -- we'll do it again in 7 minutes
Bertram Jacobus: sunday afternoon here ... :o)
Pema Pera: thanks, Gaya, the not-forcing is essential!
Pema Pera: lazy sunday summer afternoon . . . . .
Wol Euler: got no mind to worry ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes :) Not forcing and not feeling bad about it too.
Gaya Ethaniel: Why not Wol?
Adams Rubble: brb
Bertram Jacobus: yes. song from the kings i guess (?) ... ;-)
Wol Euler: yep!
Eliza Madrigal: lazing on a sunday afternoon..in the summertime
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
Bertram Jacobus: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: brb
Pema Pera: http://www.lyrics007.com/The%20Small...%20Lyrics.html
Bertram Jacobus: take many deep breathes today and here ... :-)
Wol Euler: yeah, that#s the one :)
Pema Pera: oops, wrong song !
Wol Euler: well, that's the one I was thinking of :)
Gaya Ethaniel: back

The real link and memories....

Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1oRP7FfBw
Pema Pera: yes, that's it :-)
Wol Euler: ah :)
Adams Rubble: back
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: wow, that brings back memories . . . . early high school
Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
Wol Euler laughs. Ah the good old days.
Pema Pera: before email !
Pema Pera: easier to be lazy
Wol Euler: mmhmm, no internet
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: so let's do one more exploration: watching thoughts appear, at the next break!
Wol Euler: one minute warning :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: (the song will have just finished!)
Bertram Jacobus: live this life of luxury *sing* ... ;o)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
--BELL--

Another round of watching:

Pema Pera: feel free to share your impressions!
Eliza Madrigal: you too!
Pema Pera: :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bertram Jacobus: it´s nice to do that in the group and with inspiring people. alone, I sometimes think : what should it be good for. now - not.
Gaya Ethaniel nods :)
Wol Euler: but the goodness of it is internal in either case, bert

Pema watching

Pema Pera: I noticed how difficult it was to separate thoughts from feelings and images . . . and I just watched them all
Wol Euler: it might be easier to ignore the skeptical inner voice when in a group all doing the same
Eliza Madrigal nods
Adams Rubble: I have learned from each of you today :)
Pema Pera: the song helped -- a somewhat lazy state of mind is much better for watching than a more tense or intense state of mind
Bertram Jacobus: yes wol. i agree. but it´s more "heavy to do" in the one case ...
Pema Pera: that's just a thought, Bert
Pema Pera: perhaps it's not even true
Pema Pera: though it might have been true earlier :-)
Eliza Madrigal: it took me a few moments for the thought that I should take a picture subside... then noticed I corrected my posture but didn't 'think' to do so
Eliza Madrigal: and wondered if that's a thought
Eliza Madrigal: I certainly noticed doing it
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: (also noticed a pattern of 'shoulds' this morning)
Pema Pera: :)
Gaya Ethaniel is still thinking Pema's experiences again ... :)
Gaya Ethaniel: So Pema thoughts, emotions and images how did they appear? In a series triggering each other?
Bertram Jacobus: ayya khema gives that hint, that one could catogerize the various experiences in for example thoughts, feelings, images, and then easier let them go she said
Pema Pera: sometimes more serial, sometimes together, quickly changing between those two modes, every few seconds, Gaya
Wol Euler: unless the effort of categorization is a second layer of thinking-about-thinking?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
Eliza Madrigal: Hm
Pema Pera: yes, categorizing is an interesting exploration, but that's a different one from what we're doing here -- what we're now doing is more simple & direct :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Bertram, I don't think I categorise during explorations as this. Could you say more?
Bertram Jacobus: two modes ? sorry i missed that - which two modes please pema ?
Wol Euler nods

Pema left us here but we continued first with awarenss of different kind of thought

Pema Pera: (and I have to go now, thanks for exploring together -- what fun!)
Pema Pera: [8:36] Gaya Ethaniel: So Pema thoughts, emotions and images how did they appear? In a series triggering each other?
Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day Pema :)
Bertram Jacobus: ty for the great guidance pema
Wol Euler: either serial or together, I thik, bertram
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema, thank you ... very nice
Pema Pera: we all guide each other, Bert, by sharing!
Wol Euler: bye pema, take care, enjoy the day
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay. ty again :-)
Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
Pema Pera: bye for now!
Bertram Jacobus: yes wol. ty2 :-)
Eliza Madrigal: It seems to take awareness to, in just a 'little' space to notice a difference beween a 'feeling' thought, or a 'mental' thought, etc

Memories...

Wol Euler nods. And then there is the question of what to do about memories :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, 'the past'
Wol Euler: is the memory of the sting of blades of dried grass in the palm of my hand, a "thought"?
Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: if it arises while I am considering my thoughts arising
Bertram Jacobus: gaya - i understood this catogorize in a way to sort the experiences one makes to go away from the contents and let them go in this way more easy. but as pema said , that is another method ...
Eliza Madrigal: so interesting... tactile... like it helps you to consider
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
Gaya Ethaniel: Wol, please say more :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes

Hearing

Wol Euler: well, my memories are usually immersive. I hear the birdsong in SL, and it reminds me of a garden in Italy where I sat one summer more than 30 years ago :)
Wol Euler: and I feel the sun and the breeeze and the grasss in my palm, and see the view and smell thte trees
Eliza Madrigal: MMM
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: for that X-th fraction of a second it blots out RL and SL entirely.
Bertram Jacobus: i think, feelings are thoughts also, but more intense ...
Gaya Ethaniel: I went back to one hot summer day in a park with the song too :)
Eliza Madrigal: you appreciated that moment in a very full way
Wol Euler: oh yes :) twice now
Wol Euler: it´'s odd how some things stick and othesr don't. That was one second out of a day, in a month in Italy.
Wol Euler: Why did I remember that instant in the garden, and not what I ate for lunch on the same day?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, one wonders if it was the 'quality' of your attention in that moment... or...
--BELL--
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm inclined to say more than what I think stuck.
Bertram Jacobus: may be some experiences fit better to our patterns in any way and so they stay longer with us ?
Wol Euler nods
Eliza Madrigal: It plays with one's notion of time as well
Eliza Madrigal: So 'much' happened/happens in a blip... then permeates the rest of life..
Bertram Jacobus: yes ..
Eliza Madrigal: like a weightiness or lightness
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Bertram Jacobus: time ... related to speed (!) really strange ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: Wol can live that moment anywhere... is a wonderous thing
Wol Euler smiles and nods.
Wol Euler: the garden is in me now
Bertram Jacobus: ya ... :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Is you now... in a way
Gaya Ethaniel: Positive past experiences don't hold back ... it does something opposite I think.
Wol Euler: oh yes, definitely.

the Appearance of the presence of Acronyms (can't imagine Being presenting acronyms but not up to me to judge that)

Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: OITMACTTA
Bertram Jacobus: this "mechanism" i said, leads to the (wrong, but healthy in the end) impression, that "former times always were better" ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: as said
Gaya Ethaniel: What's OITMACTTA?
Eliza Madrigal: It can, if you try to capture and recreate...but if you just appreciate them... just let them come up ...
Wol Euler chuckles. "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear."
Bertram Jacobus: yes please, what is it ? ;-)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah lol
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Wol Euler: a truism, but also a great philosophical insight.
Wol Euler: perception is not reality.
Bertram Jacobus: but they appear more far away ! much more dangerous ! isn´t it !?
Gaya Ethaniel: Rather than 'always better', it presents a particular impression each time I think.
Gaya Ethaniel: With different effects as discussed.
Eliza Madrigal: Sigh, must sign off for a bit... Such a nice session. Thanks everyone
Bertram Jacobus: ah - they ARE closer ! i did not read correctly ...
Adams Rubble: bye Eliza :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Eliza :)
Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza
Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care, enjoy the day
Eliza Madrigal: See everyone later probably :) Tis Sunday .. hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bfn
Bertram Jacobus: ty 2 and have a nice day nevertheless ! :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Bertram Jacobus: and what is YMMV ? :-)
Wol Euler: "your mileage may vary", i.e. what pleases me might not work for you
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah. ty :-))
Bertram Jacobus: i learn a lot again here ... :-)

I try an accronym of my own

Adams Rubble: TWNMA
Wol Euler laughs
Bertram Jacobus: noooo :o)
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow
Bertram Jacobus: what does THAT mean ? :o)
Adams Rubble: The World needs more acronyms :)
Gaya Ethaniel picks up a lot of new phrases at PaB too :)
Wol Euler laughs!
Gaya Ethaniel guffaws.
Wol Euler: that sounds like a title to me.
Gaya Ethaniel: I need to log off a bit before another meeting. Enjoy your day :)
Adams Rubble: bye Gaya :)
Bertram Jacobus: ty. you too gaya :-)
Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care
Wol Euler: ah, mmissed her.
--BELL--
Wol Euler: would anyone like to say anything about their thoughts during htat pause?
Bertram Jacobus: sorry : i was dealing with thoughts, did not practise this pause ...
Wol Euler smiles nd shakes her head. Thoughts are thoughts.
Adams Rubble: Thinking this will be a long log
Wol Euler: arising is arising
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Rubble giggles
Wol Euler: but you're not afraid of a little hard work on a Sunday?
Adams Rubble raises an eyebrow
Bertram Jacobus: who ? me ?
Wol Euler: Adams, she is guardian and must post the log.
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay :o)
Bertram Jacobus: i have no ideas how much work such things can be (?) ... :-)
Wol Euler: well, for certain values of "hard"...
Adams Rubble: Not all that much to post it; a little longer if one tries to add thoughtful comments
Bertram Jacobus: okay ... :-)
Adams Rubble: or correct spellings :)
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Rubble: root out acronyms (giggles)
Wol Euler: I only make changes that people themselves put into the text
Wol Euler snorts
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Adams Rubble: Wol and others' hard work on the autologeer makes the tas much easier
Wol Euler smiles and nods appreciatively.
Adams Rubble: we used to have to root out all the hud talk

Smelling

Wol Euler: the old days weren't always better ;-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Depends how much  one liked horse manure :)
Wol Euler: it has its uses.
Wol Euler: my mother has a friend who regularly gives her a quarter-ton of horse manure for her birthday
Wol Euler: for the garden :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Bertram Jacobus: lol what a birthday gift ! :-)
Adams Rubble: It must have been nice in the cities on a 90 degree day 200 years ago :)
Wol Euler laughs. But it's a wonderful gift, to a gardener.
Adams Rubble nods
Bertram Jacobus: sure, but a bit ... unusual - and without some explanations that could be good for some nice jokes ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: or even with some "wrong explanations" (!) ;-)
Adams Rubble giggles
Adams Rubble: It will be fun showing the progression of this session
Wol Euler smiles
Bertram Jacobus: how does one do that ? may be i can find it on the website ?
Adams Rubble: from watching thoughts to the smell of...well you know what
Wol Euler: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Bertram Jacobus: sometimes i´m a bit dull with all these english web activities and gimmicks and whatever
Adams Rubble: all appearances
Bertram Jacobus: ok. i´ll try to try ... ;-)
Wol Euler: :)

Reading chat logs

Adams Rubble: It is useful to read chat logs :)
Adams Rubble: see things one missed when one was there
Wol Euler: mmhmm
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: and feels like you are there when you weren't
Wol Euler: thought being here has a diferent quality than just reading logs, I find.
Wol Euler: being present is more real, more involving

and finally goodbyes...

Bertram Jacobus: i think, i could appreciate a pause now ... :-)
Wol Euler smiles
Wol Euler: bye for now, bertram, take care
Bertram Jacobus: so have a nice time, ty all - was a very nice meeting again ! :-)
Adams Rubble: bye Bertram :)
Wol Euler: I should go too, it's dinner time.
Wol Euler: bye adams, yakuzza. take care, be happy, see you in four hours :)
Adams Rubble: bye Wol :)
Adams Rubble: It has been a long session
Adams Rubble: I be off too :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm, and good one.
Adams Rubble: Bye Yakuzza :)
Wol Euler: bfn
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
Yakuzza Lethecus: everyone