2010.01.05 13:00 – Circles within Circles

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: gday gaya
    Liza Deischer: hi Gaya
    Agatha Macbeth: I never saw you as a human being before!
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya gaa
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gaya
    Mickorod Renard: Gaya*
    Mickorod Renard: are we due to comence with wok again Gaya? soon?
    Agatha Macbeth: With wok? Cooking?
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Calvino
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Cal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Liza Deischer: hi Cal
    Vertigo Ethaniel: welcome, calvin
    Mickorod Renard: cooking something,,yea
    Agatha Macbeth: Or something cooking?
    Mickorod Renard: cooking up ,ways of knowing,
    Gaya Ethaniel: I sent a notice Mick through the SL group?
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel kicks SL ... yes it resumes this Thursday.
    Mickorod Renard: I dont seem to pick mine up as often as I should,,for some rreason,,most likely my incompetence
    Mickorod Renard: Thanks gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: [btw having a very bad chat lag ... 1 pm SLT monster is back for me it seems]
    Mickorod Renard: I dont know whether my rl is so busy that i dont find as much time as I need for sl,,,or whether I just need to be more industrious
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably somewhere in between Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Liza Deischer: What is your best guess :-)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Cor
    Agatha Macbeth: Did I miss someone?
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I nearly did too
    Agatha Macbeth: Woops!
    Mickorod Renard: I am going to pretend I did
    Agatha Macbeth: OK then :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: RL is stressful most ofthe time, mick
    Vertigo Ethaniel: liza, i will turn off my translator, sorry
    Liza Deischer: thanks
    Gaya Ethaniel: [don't mind me, relogging ...]
    Mickorod Renard: Rl is stressful for me at the moment
    Mickorod Renard: I am very concious of anxieties
    Mickorod Renard: and I am trying to suppress them
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, i too am suffering from anxiety at the present
    Liza Deischer: anxieties?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: its a nasty thing to live with
    Mickorod Renard: yes it is,,and I often feel that i am willing my life away wishing for a less stressful date in the future
    Vertigo Ethaniel nods
    Mickorod Renard: yet i know that i am a born worrier
    Vertigo Ethaniel: it is hard to sit content in the present when it is unpleasant
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Qt
    Agatha Macbeth: Why stressful Mick?
    Liza Deischer: hi QT
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Agatha Macbeth: Buona sera QT
    Liza Deischer: anxiety is very mean
    Qt Core: 'sera Agatha
    Vertigo Ethaniel: welcome QT
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I have some personal business to sort out,,its been pending a while now
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Mickorod Renard: selling a house in another country
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, tricky
    Mickorod Renard: and I cannot move on properly without the money from it
    Agatha Macbeth: Is that in France?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
    Mickorod Renard: its horrible
    Agatha Macbeth: What the house?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: where is the house, in the country? or urban?
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Liza Deischer: its not a good time to sell a house at the moment
    Mickorod Renard: its sort of semi rural
    Agatha Macbeth: At least it's another EU country, which should facilitate matters somewhat
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Bertie :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: that sounds like a nice place mick
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i wouldnt mind similar
    Bertram Jacobus: hello everybody ! ... :-)
    Liza Deischer: Hi Bert
    Mickorod Renard: should do,,,,,well, it could have been nice,,but i dont know,,I feel I wasted my tlife there
    Qt Core: i bert
    Agatha Macbeth: Aaaaw :(
    Mickorod Renard: I just want to move on
    Agatha Macbeth: Were you happy while you were there Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: not really
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Zen
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello there Zen
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Liza Deischer: yes, hi Zen, missed you
    Mickorod Renard: as usual, I think I went to escape bagage,,and then took the bagage with me
    Agatha Macbeth: Ooops ;-)
    Liza Deischer: there is no way to hide
    Zen Arado: baggage?
    Liza Deischer: Im afraid
    Mickorod Renard: I know..now I face it ,,and its much better
    Mickorod Renard: deal with things,,dont run
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Tis the only way Mick
    Liza Deischer: but anxiety still kicks in?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: anxiety kicks you in the butt when you least expect it
    Mickorod Renard: the anxiety is just me being impatient about wantin life back to normal
    Agatha Macbeth: nods
    Liza Deischer: not being where you are, not willing to
    Mickorod Renard: Hi zon
    Zon Quar: heya
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah guten Abend :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Zon, Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Wol,,nice dinner?
    Liza Deischer: hi Zon
    Zen Arado: Hi Wol
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
    Wol Euler: very nice, thanks
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Mickorod Renard: are you really here Wol?
    Wol Euler: yep
    Mickorod Renard: coooooool
    Zen Arado: are any of us :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: Zen,,thats a deep question
    Agatha Macbeth: Filled up and ready to rock :)
    Liza Deischer: you need to drop your tag :-)
    Zon Quar: who r we
    Mickorod Renard: I am me,,who are you?
    Zon Quar: i though i was me
    Zen Arado: no one here really
    Agatha Macbeth: Who is Number One?
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i am not a number
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i am a person
    Zon Quar: i must be the only me
    Zon Quar: u r all us
    Agatha Macbeth: You are a free...er...cat?
    Mickorod Renard: oh yes,,the prisoner starts again soon,,in uk at least
    Agatha Macbeth: It does?
    Zen Arado: I am ...not I am
    Wol Euler: I thought *I* was me. If you are "me", who am I?
    Mickorod Renard: a new mini series
    Agatha Macbeth: It's not that simple Wol
    Mickorod Renard: maybe we are all nothing?
    Agatha Macbeth: Not the original then?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: no, you are you, i am me
    Zen Arado: we are all each other
    Liza Deischer: or all I
    Wol Euler: aah, I see, ty
    Zon Quar: hey...i can only be me
    Vertigo Ethaniel: zen i do like that :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well that cleared *that* up!
    Agatha Macbeth: Not
    Zen Arado: we inter are
    Mickorod Renard: (I guess we have all be reading time space and knowledge)
    Zen Arado: as TNH says
    Zon Quar: tnh ?
    Wol Euler: I like that.
    Agatha Macbeth: Is that Irish Zen?
    Zen Arado: Thich Nhat Hanh
    Zon Quar: ah
    Agatha Macbeth: Is he not president of Viet Nam?
    Zen Arado: a Vietnamese Zen monk
    Liza Deischer: living in France
    Agatha Macbeth: Right country!
    Zen Arado: lives in France though
    Wol Euler: oh, the Plum Village guy?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Ok ok
    Zon Quar: no wonder he is buddhist
    Zon Quar: lol
    Agatha Macbeth: (Stickler for detail)
    Zen Arado: believes in socially engaged Buddhism
    Agatha Macbeth: Ooooh
    Agatha Macbeth: What's that?
    Zen Arado: led protests against Vietnam war
    Zen Arado: otherwise I don't know
    Agatha Macbeth: Good for him
    Liza Deischer: that's why he is living in France
    Mickorod Renard: and yet he still lives in france?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry to laggy ... good night!
    Mickorod Renard: nite Gaya
    Liza Deischer: nite Gaya
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Gaya :(
    Vertigo Ethaniel: see ya
    Zon Quar: nite G
    Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care
    Mickorod Renard: nite nite gaya
    Zon Quar: hm..we didnt respect the bell
    Zen Arado: have no idea why he lives in France
    Agatha Macbeth: I did :)
    Mickorod Renard: sorry, as guardian I must reprimand us all for chatting during the silent bit
    Agatha Macbeth: France was the colonial power that ruled Viet Nam originally
    Zen Arado: oh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
    Bertram Jacobus: brave action mick !
    Agatha Macbeth: Til about 1954 I think
    Zon Quar: yes in 1950 ies?
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I wud have thought he would have distanced himself after the trouble was over
    Agatha Macbeth: In the fifties anyway
    Zen Arado: funny he started an srticle in a magazine I read this morniing with this quote
    Zen Arado: “As I see it, there isn’t so much to do. Just be ordinary—put on your robes, eat your food, and pass the time doing nothing.” - Master Linji, Teaching 18
    Zen Arado: so have tp practice that :)
    Mickorod Renard: that sounds like a good suggestion
    Wol Euler: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Don't just do something: lie there
    Zon Quar: did he have small children
    Vertigo Ethaniel: sounds fantastic
    Mickorod Renard: lie there and think of your country?
    Agatha Macbeth: It's 'Lie back and think of England' I believe
    Zen Arado: it is hard to do nothing
    Agatha Macbeth: Sexist
    Zon Quar: and u need money
    Zon Quar: so u must do something
    Zen Arado: yes only works for Englishwomen
    Zen Arado: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: And racist too then :)
    Mickorod Renard: I was trying to be multi cultural
    Vertigo Ethaniel: society says you need money
    Vertigo Ethaniel: you really dont
    Agatha Macbeth: Stormy!
    Agatha Macbeth: WOW!
    Wol Euler: hello storm
    Zen Arado: Hi Storm
    Liza Deischer: Hi Storm
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Strom
    Vertigo Ethaniel: hiya storm
    Zon Quar: well i need to pay my bills
    Vertigo Ethaniel: you dont need bills
    Zon Quar: it only works with money
    Mickorod Renard: me too
    Wol Euler: ooh, a full circle. We all get bonus karma points now.
    Storm Nordwind whispers Hi to everyone
    Agatha Macbeth: Don't need Bill's what?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: what i mean is, you dont "need" the things that require paying bills
    Agatha Macbeth: Karma chameleons?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: in the grand scheme of things
    Mickorod Renard: food is expensive
    Wol Euler: health care
    Vertigo Ethaniel: food is free, if you grow it
    Agatha Macbeth: Sure is!
    Zon Quar: well is u live in cold climate u need
    Mickorod Renard: u need land to grow food,,thats expensive
    Vertigo Ethaniel: true
    Agatha Macbeth: yep
    Vertigo Ethaniel: most things in this world have been commoditized
    Zon Quar: ur children need clothes
    Vertigo Ethaniel: even life itself
    Mickorod Renard: could breed fat spiders,,and eat them
    Zon Quar: food
    Zen Arado: maybe 'doing nothing' has a deeper meaning
    Zon Quar: shelter
    Liza Deischer: I think so too Zen
    Mickorod Renard: if I didnt feed myself the hospital would put me on a drip,,for free
    Mickorod Renard: now then,,,I have a question
    Agatha Macbeth: Oooh
    Mickorod Renard: shall i ask it?
    Agatha Macbeth: No :)
    Zon Quar: please
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Liza Deischer: was that the question?
    Agatha Macbeth: No that was the answer
    Zen Arado: :)
    Mickorod Renard: why is it usually wrong for budhists to eat meat?
    Zon Quar: its not esthetic
    Zen Arado: precept says 'it is not good to kill
    Bertram Jacobus: because it´s nice not to cause suffering more then necessairy mick
    Storm Nordwind: It's wrong if they want it to be wrong
    Liza Deischer: in fact eating meat is not the problem
    Mickorod Renard: but are plants not living?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: eating meat is not right or wrong
    Vertigo Ethaniel: it just is
    Zon Quar: its unhealthy
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. but the animals eat many plants too before we eat them
    Zen Arado: but plants don't suffer as much as sentient beings
    Wol Euler: Liza, could you say more please?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: humans attribute moral consequences for a variety of reasons, but its not intrinsically bad
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice one Bert :)
    Zon Quar: try to kill a plant..it doesnt yell
    Vertigo Ethaniel: thats debatable
    Liza Deischer: I think it is more about the ability to get enlightend
    Liza Deischer: plants can't
    Mickorod Renard: I know there must be diferent idea's stemming from peoples preferences,,but from purley a budhist or spiritual point of view?
    Liza Deischer: But if you eat plants, you kill animals too
    Agatha Macbeth: Wasn't it Lyall Watson who said plants feel pain?
    Liza Deischer: small ones
    Zen Arado: try to avoid causing suffering is key as Liza said
    Vertigo Ethaniel: indeed. plants require dead animals to grow
    Mickorod Renard: I know its said vines feel the emotions of iminent death
    Vertigo Ethaniel: by eating plants, you are eating animals, and vice versa. the cycle doesnt stop.
    Liza Deischer: true
    Zen Arado: but they don't have pain receptors
    Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
    Mickorod Renard: I just wondered whether it was to do with reincarnation?
    Bertram Jacobus: but you can try to harm so few as possible
    Agatha Macbeth: Eh?
    Zon Quar: why dont we eat humans
    Liza Deischer: whatevr you do, if you move, drive your car, you are killing animals
    Agatha Macbeth: Hannibal Lecter did :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: zon, its socially unacceptable
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Zon Quar: what so bad about it
    Liza Deischer: its got to do with the inprint of killing
    Zen Arado: food tabbos
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i think there are genetic factors too
    Zen Arado: cultural
    Agatha Macbeth: Long pig
    Mickorod Renard: its suggested that we would inherit ill health by canibalism
    Zon Quar: it is socially acceptabel in kannibalistic cultures
    Zen Arado: we did back in our past I think
    Mickorod Renard: I read in science journal the other week that not all canibals inherit poor health from there practice
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Agatha Macbeth: Sssh!
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Zon Quar: ill health from eating piggs too
    Mickorod Renard: :(
    Vertigo Ethaniel: shh
    Zon Quar: sry
    Zen Arado: if you were starving and there was a dead human around....
    Zen Arado: would be such a waste
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,there are exceptions
    Mickorod Renard: thats another interesting topic
    Zen Arado: happened in air crashes
    Zon Quar: to me animals r more sentient beings...coarse vibrations..makes u duller
    Zon Quar: eating them
    Vertigo Ethaniel: cause?
    Zen Arado: so much cruelty in intensive farming
    Zon Quar: iv expereinced that
    Zon Quar: by testing
    Mickorod Renard: I have heard it said and even felt so,,that if you love someone very much that the desire to eat them ids strong
    Vertigo Ethaniel: oh yes, battery farming is awful
    Calvino Rabeni: yes mick, that happens
    Zen Arado: Hannibal Lecter again?
    Calvino Rabeni: there is a saying from paents to children "you look good enough to eat!"
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably
    Agatha Macbeth: Hansel and Gretel?
    Mickorod Renard: I think that there is a desire to be one
    Calvino Rabeni: And I've had that told to me as adult, in non-english speaking country
    Bertram Jacobus: the witch agatha ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Who's a witch?
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Samantha?
    Mickorod Renard: which witch?
    Zen Arado: there is a problem in philosopy called 'the cannibal's problem'
    Agatha Macbeth: Which witch is which?
    Bertram Jacobus: the witch with haensel and gretel agatha - or somebody else ? :o)
    Zon Quar: what is that problem zen ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh *that* witch
    Mickorod Renard: watz that Zen?
    Agatha Macbeth: Sorry, I know so many.....
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Aiden
    Zen Arado: what would happen to christian missionaries who had been eaten by cannibals
    Liza Deischer: hi Aiden
    Zon Quar: hm..
    Zen Arado: how would they be resurrected at judgement day?
    Agatha Macbeth: In what way Zen?
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh I see
    Mickorod Renard: I guess they would die
    Agatha Macbeth: Same as everyone else?
    Zon Quar: i dont believe in resurrection..so i dont have the problem
    Zen Arado: it is only a prob if you are a Christian :)
    Mickorod Renard: I dont either
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice hat Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: ty agatha :-)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: thats more a theological problem than philosophical :) philosophers arent responsible for a religions shortcomings
    Mickorod Renard: I am supposed to be a christian
    Zon Quar: or how many enagels can stans in the needle
    Wol Euler: surely it wouldn't be a problem, no more than having lost teeth or a leg is.
    Storm Nordwind: DId someone tell you to be, Mick?!
    Vertigo Ethaniel: youre supposed to be whatever youre comfortable with
    Agatha Macbeth: ;-)
    Zen Arado: resurrection is such a big idea to grasp
    Mickorod Renard: no, not at all Storm,,maybe I am not
    Vertigo Ethaniel: personally, i tend towards a shinto/pagan/agnostic bend
    Vertigo Ethaniel is weird
    Agatha Macbeth: Well that covers the field :)
    Storm Nordwind: Some very disparate things there Vertigo!
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yep i am conflicted
    Agatha Macbeth: Each-way bet?
    Mickorod Renard: I saw something on the television the other day(so must be true) that Jesus attended budhist lessons
    Zon Quar: i think os
    Vertigo Ethaniel: he was also a huge stoner
    Wol Euler chortles at the thought of finding truths on TV.
    Zon Quar: he wandered in india iv heard
    Zen Arado: could be or met some 'wise men' from the East
    Agatha Macbeth: Or finding anything on TV
    Agatha Macbeth: Worth watching
    Mickorod Renard: was he a vegitarian?
    Zon Quar: so many years without information of his moves
    Agatha Macbeth: They were Magi
    Zen Arado: yes
    Storm Nordwind: Reminds me of the Zen story: http://deoxy.org/koan/16
    Wol Euler nods. How true.
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice Storm :)
    Zon Quar: nods
    Vertigo Ethaniel has reached PLATINUM KARMA
    Agatha Macbeth: BONG!
    Zon Quar: wisdom is eternal
    Zen Arado: yes lots of Jesus's teaching like koans too
    Zon Quar: not possed by one person
    Mickorod Renard: yes super piece
    Calvino Rabeni: No one chooses their religion - it chooses them
    Zen Arado: means I don't understand them :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: interesting idea, i had not considered the thought of jesus travelling
    Zon Quar: he was an essean
    Mickorod Renard: well, i think there are very interesting things in many scriptures,,I like reading them all
    Agatha Macbeth: Well there is a school of thought that he died in Kashmir
    Wol Euler: thank you for that link, Storm, I'll have to bookmark that site :)
    Zen Arado: oh yes great teachings in the Bible
    Zen Arado: great wisdom stories
    Zon Quar: yes, the books of Moses
    Zon Quar: and new testament
    Vertigo Ethaniel: hiya arabella
    Zon Quar: but also
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Ara
    Zen Arado: Hi Ara
    Wol Euler: lots of Buddha in Ecclesiastes
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!!!
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Zon Quar: lots of trivial things
    Mickorod Renard: some open up to you and become very interesting,,just like any story if you get imersed
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I thought it was Tao in ecclesiastes
    Zen Arado: 'in much knowledge there is much grief' Wol
    Wol Euler grins.
    Agatha Macbeth: Or vice-versa :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, ecclesiastes is the most interesting book in the entire bible imo
    Liza Deischer: hi Ara
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Liza Deischer: getting wet Aiden?
    Mickorod Renard: shhhhh
    Aidan Spiritor: s/orry
    Agatha Macbeth: (Nice wet bum)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Aidan Spiritor: sorry
    Qt Core: have to go, bye all
    Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye Qt,,nice seein ya
    Zon Quar: the book of job is great
    Liza Deischer: bye QT
    Vertigo Ethaniel: the lesson that wisdom is the most important thing in the universe holds very true
    arabella Ella: notte Qt
    Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
    Vertigo Ethaniel: (might as well break silence)
    Zen Arado: bye Qt
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, now 90 seconds of silence?
    Zen Arado: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: or not,
    Mickorod Renard: we are past time///I think
    Agatha Macbeth: 90 secs of no typing?
    Zen Arado: of doing nothiing
    Bertram Jacobus: most important ? also love and light i think vertigo ...
    Zen Arado: you see how hard it is :)
    Calvino Rabeni: The interesting thing is we can all choose our religion on personal criteria, in this age
    Vertigo Ethaniel: perhaps, it depends on the person
    Mickorod Renard: love and light ,,very important
    Calvino Rabeni: that should occasion much grief
    Vertigo Ethaniel: they are certainly up there
    Calvino Rabeni: due to the burdenof knowledge involved
    Bertram Jacobus: may be it doesn´t depend always vertgo
    Mickorod Renard: some still have problems with freedom
    Zon Quar: some ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Reminds me of a song "freedom from choice... is what U want"
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Zen Arado: 'another word for nothig left to do
    Mickorod Renard: I also think..that 'many feel that it may be not cool to be linked to a religion
    Calvino Rabeni: can't help it though
    Zon Quar: it is natural i think
    Zon Quar: to start by doubting
    Aidan Spiritor: can't help it--why?
    Storm Nordwind: Doubt is a great purifier
    Zon Quar: yes
    arabella Ella: cant help ... what?
    Zon Quar: without doubt i u cant find
    Calvino Rabeni: one is born already human, becomes social already enculturated, both of these imply religion
    Mickorod Renard: the benefit of intersting notions that are written in holy booksbut many deny themselves
    Aidan Spiritor: Joining a religion, as said earlier by Calvino?
    arabella Ella: social and enculturated implies community not religion
    Vertigo Ethaniel: religion is an illusion, its what you believe and what you know which matters
    Calvino Rabeni: Joining is only a slight adjustment to what one had before
    Mickorod Renard: oops,,am I writting back to front?
    Agatha Macbeth: Arabic?
    Zon Quar: we should distinguish organised religions and religioisness
    Aidan Spiritor: Or perhaps spirituality?
    Calvino Rabeni: people have an important fantasy - that they choose culture
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and yes, critically thinking about your beliefs should be taught in school
    Zon Quar: nods
    arabella Ella: spirituality i think you mean Zon
    Calvino Rabeni: Probably more like the other way around
    Aidan Spiritor: Zon??
    Calvino Rabeni: and every culture has its own deep metaphysics
    Calvino Rabeni: so in that way, the religion has made the people
    Zon Quar: depends how we define words..spirituality or pure religiousness
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i am not religious, i am spiritual and i seek the truth
    Zon Quar: words,,
    Vertigo Ethaniel: not words
    Calvino Rabeni: buddhism is not understood in the west, except as a modification to an essentially christian world view
    Vertigo Ethaniel: reality
    Storm Nordwind: Yes words
    Bertram Jacobus: there are many various understanding of "relgion" ...
    Zen Arado: difficult ambiguous words...
    Storm Nordwind: Your choice of their meaning
    Mickorod Renard: most people that are religious only see themselves as spiritual
    Vertigo Ethaniel: religiousness by definition means you are indoctrinated by outside forces
    Mickorod Renard: religious is a label that others put on them
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, and that is true, vertigo
    Zon Quar: not to me
    Mickorod Renard: then I am not religious
    Calvino Rabeni: we are indoctrinated
    Liza Deischer: not to me either
    Zon Quar: we can choose what we mean
    arabella Ella: not all are indoctrinated Vertigo ... some make free choices too to join or adopt a new religion
    Calvino Rabeni: it only seems free
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i have no real religion, which is what i am getting at
    Liza Deischer: no it is free
    Vertigo Ethaniel: you dont have to believe what others say jsut for the sake of it
    arabella Ella: why 'real' religion Vertigo ... are there others not so real?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: make your own mind up
    Liza Deischer: youre taking on the not-freedom yourself
    Calvino Rabeni: eventually you may discover the real religion you had all along
    Zon Quar: nod..religion as an institution..a doctrine..is an idea
    Mickorod Renard: I dont have a real religion as such,,as all the christians I know seem crazy
    Vertigo Ethaniel: perhaps
    Liza Deischer: dont think your free if your not religious, but spiritual
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes Mick :)
    Zen Arado: 'men are born free but everywhere they are in chains' Rousseau
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i have been religious, and it led me down the wrong path
    Aidan Spiritor: Is athiesm a religion?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Mickorod Renard: I think even science is a religion
    Aidan Spiritor: How so?
    Zen Arado: I think science is the new religion
    Agatha Macbeth: Could be
    Zen Arado: :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: agnostism is debatable not a religion
    Vertigo Ethaniel: as is science
    arabella Ella: some people treat science in the same way as others treat a god
    Aidan Spiritor: Actually its bee around for quite awhile..
    Storm Nordwind: Religion derives from the Latin meaning "to link back". You can choose what you link back to. You don't need someone else choosing for you.
    Calvino Rabeni: Wol referenced a book quite a while back - "this is water"
    Agatha Macbeth: Knowing rather than believing?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: both are based on the assumption of "i dont know"
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and go from there
    Calvino Rabeni: It addresses some of these ideas
    Wol Euler smiles. You read it, Calvino?
    Zen Arado: it is a big teaching in Zen
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure, it took all day long :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Aidan Spiritor: If religion is about linking back or reconnecting why do so many create divisions?
    Calvino Rabeni: everyone worships
    Wol Euler: hello angelo
    Agatha Macbeth: (Did someone just walk on me?)
    Angelo Nerido: oooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    Mickorod Renard: but I feel,,in my innards,,that we all need something to ponder over,,something spiritual,,and where one finds that is there freedom
    Storm Nordwind: Because, Aidan, people make different choices
    Wol Euler: I'll give you an introduction in IM so as not to disturb the others
    Mickorod Renard: thanks wol
    Mickorod Renard: their*
    Aidan Spiritor: Not sure I get your point..
    Zen Arado: the problem is when you cling to beliefs i think
    Zon Quar: thinking..believing in ideas dont make on free
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes zen, especially under evidence to the contrary
    Vertigo Ethaniel: that is truely close-minded
    Aidan Spiritor: Ideas can be liberating as long as they are loosly held..
    Storm Nordwind: Aidan, there are many choices of things to link back to, and many choices of method. No wonder there is diversity!
    Calvino Rabeni: When people make divisions, probably from their point of view they think they are making clarifications and simplifications
    Aidan Spiritor: Diversity is great but the problem arises with dogma..
    Aidan Spiritor: I'm right and you're wrong for eg..
    Mickorod Renard: as it has been discovered during Pab sessions in the past,,there is much that we all share..regardless of our beliefs that have names
    Zen Arado: the Dalai Lama says you need the diversity of religions because of the difference in cultures
    Storm Nordwind: Dogma is separate, Aiden. Some methods have it. Some don't. You gets what you chooses.
    Zen Arado: there will never be a universal religion
    Vertigo Ethaniel: bahai is getting close, zen
    Mickorod Renard: maybe Pab is one?
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Only one Mick? ;)
    Aidan Spiritor: Yes that makes sense as long as the views are loosly held and open to new knowledge..
    Mickorod Renard: or many
    Zon Quar: the word religion is as Strom said..re joining..like yoga ..gome together..so its not so bad ..as insitutionalised religion which is different to me and is often dogmatic
    Calvino Rabeni: In making divisions, people create a "this but not that" distinction, then assume "that" will be discarded, improving life for all concerned.
    Aidan Spiritor: Most modern relirions are not so religious ..
    Calvino Rabeni: Religions are about making choices also, not just unification
    Aidan Spiritor: *religions
    Calvino Rabeni: Discrimination is part of it
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i disagree. i think that beliefs are one thing, but when you take it seriously without a critical mind, it becomes religion
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe bone ... :-))
    Mickorod Renard: even the bible is open to much personal interpretation,,anyone will tell you that it speaks to you individually,,in other words,,u take from it what you need
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
    Aidan Spiritor: Even the born agains?
    Storm Nordwind: There is a place of fuzzy logic Cal. One need not exclude all parts of the other
    Storm Nordwind: *for
    Calvino Rabeni: To the contrary of the modern "perennial" philosophy that says, all is one
    Mickorod Renard: Hi mikey
    Mikey673 Geesink: Hey
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that's my implication, but it looks like the middle is excluded
    Calvino Rabeni: This is "can" vs "is"
    Storm Nordwind: Not what I've found Cal. There are multitudes of eclectics out there
    arabella Ella nods to Storm
    Aidan Spiritor: And syncretics..
    Wol Euler: bye liza, takecare
    arabella Ella: what is a syncretic?
    Aidan Spiritor: syncretists..
    Zen Arado: bye Liza
    Mickorod Renard: bye liza
    Aidan Spiritor: bye Lisa
    Zon Quar: bye Lisa
    Agatha Macbeth: To't ziens Lisa
    Mickorod Renard: is Mikey still here?
    Liza Deischer: Im going
    Liza Deischer: nite everybody
    Storm Nordwind waves
    arabella Ella: nite Liza
    Mickorod Renard: nite Liza
    Vertigo Ethaniel: see ya liza
    Mickorod Renard: I have lost Mikey
    Aidan Spiritor: One who choses from various religions and philosophies to create their own world view or religion/philosophy..
    Agatha Macbeth: Careless Mick ;-)
    arabella Ella: oh like a recipe you mean?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, a big soup
    Aidan Spiritor: More lile a buffet..
    Calvino Rabeni: It all goes into the same stomach
    Aidan Spiritor: *like
    Agatha Macbeth: Pot pourri?
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure that anyone who searches...is ok with me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ngiht
    Storm Nordwind: Or a diet?
    Aidan Spiritor: You have the idea..
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i believe what i believe. why? i dont know, its just what feels right
    Agatha Macbeth: Schlaf gut Yaku
    Calvino Rabeni: could be like that too
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku
    Aidan Spiritor: Often looked down upon..
    Mickorod Renard: bye yaku
    Zon Quar: bye Yaku
    Zon Quar: one can only know what one knows
    Vertigo Ethaniel: the wiccan creed of believe what you will, so long as you harm none, is a great wisdom that should be taught at an early age
    Storm Nordwind: Institutions have no controls over eclectics or syncretics. No wonder they're unpopular!
    Aidan Spiritor: Feelings alone can be a dangerous guide..
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes! :)
    Calvino Rabeni: If one doesn't know why one believes something, it may be someone else's belief
    arabella Ella: i think most people are religious as a circumstance of the place where they were born but ... it is very difficult for intelligent people to toe a line ... and this applies to politics too
    Calvino Rabeni: Thinking alone is a dangerous guide also
    Storm Nordwind: You mean there are safe guides Cal?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,egotism is a scary realm
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Aidan Spiritor: Agree, heart and mind seem a better combination..
    Calvino Rabeni: No guide taken singly could be safe
    Vertigo Ethaniel: id agree with that
    Agatha Macbeth: Yup
    Aidan Spiritor: Much wisdom in feelings..
    Zon Quar: u can only think alone
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: no
    Agatha Macbeth: True Aidan :)
    Storm Nordwind: And your alternative - to dispanse with guides altogether? Or something else?
    Calvino Rabeni: u think with others
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i think differently with others, than i do alone
    arabella Ella: wisdom tho only comes with time age and experience
    Storm Nordwind nods to ara
    Zon Quar: only u can decide
    Zon Quar: what u beleive
    Mickorod Renard: I talk with myself,,he is so clever
    Zon Quar: not others
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Agatha Macbeth: Do you answer tho Mick? :)
    arabella Ella: and does Mick listen to 'myself'?
    Calvino Rabeni: Thinking with and beyond guides, is a kind of alternative to thinking within them simplistically
    Mickorod Renard: I cannot give away confidential stuff,,sorry
    Agatha Macbeth: Who is 'myself.?
    Mickorod Renard: isnt this where we strarted?
    Storm Nordwind whispers: "It's when Mick argues and then loses the argument that problems arise!"
    Mickorod Renard: I am me
    Zon Quar: no i am me
    Agatha Macbeth: (I've been listening to Pema too much)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: no wonder i talk to myself,,you guys are all crazy!
    Calvino Rabeni: Don't listen to that Pema guy - listen to the Pema "within" :)
    Agatha Macbeth: No Mick, it's *you* who's crazy!!!!
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Storm Nordwind: It's a show put on specially for you Mick
    Zon Quar: now u notice
    Mickorod Renard: you mean me?
    Agatha Macbeth: grins
    Calvino Rabeni: I beg your pardon - no one around here is crazy except myself :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Zon Quar: no me too¨
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m normal
    Zon Quar: and i like it
    Agatha Macbeth: What is 'normal' Bert?
    Bertram Jacobus: normal is what most do
    Bertram Jacobus: or are
    Zon Quar: me to cause im me totehger with Mick
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou,,I will try
    Agatha Macbeth: You think? :)
    Bertram Jacobus: beyond crazyness agatha :o)
    Wol Euler: bye zen, zon
    Vertigo Ethaniel: this has been a productive and long session
    Aidan Spiritor: Me too..
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Mickorod Renard: love to you all
    Agatha Macbeth: Zon zen zen zon....
    Agatha Macbeth: Where's Zin?
    Bertram Jacobus: may be with the teletubbies
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably :)
    Calvino Rabeni: O indeed, I am completely normal as well too Bert
    Calvino Rabeni: which is a big part of the issue
    Agatha Macbeth: (Not)
    Bertram Jacobus: completly is a big word ... ;-)
    arabella Ella: i must go too but what you bring to mind is ... how normal does SL allow us to be?
    Agatha Macbeth: So is completely :)
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Wol Euler: well, let us distinguish please between "normal" and "average"
    Wol Euler: average is what "most people do", but that is sometimes quite abnormal IMHO
    Bertram Jacobus: how would you describe the differences wol ? betwenn the both words ?
    Calvino Rabeni: May all beings be "normal" - and if they can't be nornal, then be as normal as they CAN be.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. there it is already ! :-)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: most people do what is socially acceptable, so normal can just mean exactly that
    Wol Euler: "normal" is a value judgement, "average" is just a quantity
    Bertram Jacobus: many people link normal with god or bad
    Agatha Macbeth: I guess
    Storm Nordwind: So "social norms" should be reworded "social averages"? ;)
    Agatha Macbeth: God?
    Agatha Macbeth: Freudian slip Bert :)
    Bertram Jacobus: god good yes
    Wol Euler: heeheheh
    Calvino Rabeni: Normal is a fictive state people use for criticism more often than aspiration
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Vertigo Ethaniel: thats very true calvino
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh right
    Storm Nordwind: In that sense, both are what other people apply to me, but neither is what I apply to myself
    Calvino Rabeni: The soup would be pretty bland, if all the ingredients were average
    Agatha Macbeth: :) Storm
    Wol Euler: yes, storm, they are both externals
    Wol Euler: like chasing after "cool", it's letting other people guide your life
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes!
    Bertram Jacobus: was / is a long session this time ! i´ll leave - ty all and have a nice time please ! :-)
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, stay normal Bert :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: see ya bertram, good chatting
    Agatha Macbeth: Auf wiedersehen Berti :)
    Wol Euler: ciao bert
    Bertram Jacobus: thx again :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Bone
    Bone Darkmatter: bye. that was nice to listen to you.
    Wol Euler: bye bone, take care
    Wol Euler: did someone give him the intro, btw?
    Agatha Macbeth: Good job his second name isn't 'Head'
    Calvino Rabeni: I think I have seen him here before
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Wol Euler: only eight days old, and already partnered. Interesting.
    Agatha Macbeth: And he came back? :)
    Storm Nordwind: An alt perhaps
    Wol Euler: probably
    Agatha Macbeth: No stoppin' some!
    Wol Euler: it costs money to be partnered, and he had no payment details :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Who knows "Flux Constantine"?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: my ex found a SL partner a week or so after breaking up with my in RL.. it happens
    Wol Euler: wow
    Agatha Macbeth: Ooooooops! ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: So it goes
    Vertigo Ethaniel: 5 years it was, what a nightmare
    Vertigo Ethaniel: not the time together, the afterwards
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmmm :(
    Wol Euler: I'm sorry to hear it, Vertigo
    Agatha Macbeth: Happens to us all mate
    Vertigo Ethaniel: mmm
    Storm Nordwind: Happened to me. Positively.
    Agatha Macbeth: (Some more than others)
    Wol Euler grins. That it did.
    Agatha Macbeth: Oooh dark past storm?
    Wol Euler: bright present :)
    Storm Nordwind grins
    Calvino Rabeni: That's where the name comes from storm?
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes! Lucky you :)
    Storm Nordwind: My name is Storm in RL as well as SL
    Calvino Rabeni: How interesting and somewhat inspiring
    Storm Nordwind: I broke up with my ex of 10 years 3 years ago. I met my now wife in SL almost immediately
    Calvino Rabeni: That is a bit heart-warming
    Vertigo Ethaniel: ouch storm, that must have been painful
    Vertigo Ethaniel: at the time
    Storm Nordwind: I could have chosen to spin out the pain if I'd wanted to. But perhaps "all things work together for good"
    Wol Euler nods
    Vertigo Ethaniel: mm
    Wol Euler: happy new year, gina. Haven't seen you in a while
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes Storm :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i find myself holding onto hope for a possible future for us, down the road
    Storm Nordwind: Know only that there is a future! :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: well yes
    Vertigo Ethaniel: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And there is hope
    Storm Nordwind: If anyone had suggested 3 years ago that I would be sitting here, 4300 miles away, having the happiest time of my life... I would have been incredulous
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: Such is life Storm
    Calvino Rabeni: :) I've had that sense at times
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i am happy for you storm
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and people tell me that there will be others, but right now that doesnt really help... as i want her
    Vertigo Ethaniel: time may tell that i may move on from her, but not right now
    Wol Euler nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Sometimes
    Storm Nordwind: Of course. No matter whose fault it is, no matter who leaves whom, it is like doing surgery on yourself without an anaesthetic
    Vertigo Ethaniel: oh yea.
    Agatha Macbeth: Ouch
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Agatha Macbeth: What's Colorado like then?
    Storm Nordwind: Colorado... 300 sunny days a year. Unlike my previous home with 300 dismal rainy days a year!
    Wol Euler: heheheheheh
    Wol Euler: go on, admit that you miss the rain.
    Agatha Macbeth: Improvement then ;-)
    Storm Nordwind: I get plenty of snow instead Wol! And who would miss interminable cloudbase of 500ft
    Agatha Macbeth: What's the altitude like where you are Storm?
    Calvino Rabeni: Colorado is 1/2 flat, and 1/2 very bumpy
    Storm Nordwind: About 5600ft Agatha
    Wol Euler: wow
    Calvino Rabeni: spring comes late
    Calvino Rabeni: winters are bright
    Agatha Macbeth: Near Denver?
    Storm Nordwind: Yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah yes
    Calvino Rabeni: summers have much electrical activity in the atmosphere
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i prefer rain tbh!
    Agatha Macbeth: I'm a Broncos Fan ;-)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, and thunderstorms
    Vertigo Ethaniel purrs
    Storm Nordwind: Someone has to be, Agatha!
    Wol Euler: rimshot.
    Agatha Macbeth: oi!
    Agatha Macbeth: remember John Elway!
    Storm Nordwind: We're never allowed to forget him
    Agatha Macbeth: Back to back Superbowls :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hee hee
    Agatha Macbeth: Shame they don't have him now :(
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you taken up any local customs, Storm?
    Storm Nordwind: Other than driving on the right, what do you have in mind Cal?
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Calvino Rabeni: Skiing, riding horses, panning for gold, hiking in mountains, elk watching
    Vertigo Ethaniel: hiking in the mountains
    Agatha Macbeth: You *do* drive on the right don't you?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: that, i could do my entire life
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i dont, agatha
    Storm Nordwind: Fending off cougars, arttlers and bears and avoiding brushing against Black Widow spiders
    Vertigo Ethaniel: but i live in new zealand
    Agatha Macbeth: Not you!
    Storm Nordwind: *rattlers
    Agatha Macbeth: Same 2 U
    Vertigo Ethaniel: just sayin :P
    Agatha Macbeth: Lots of sheep Vertigo?
    Storm Nordwind: Eating Nepalese cuisine in the second Land of the Snows. mmmmmmm
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i havent seen one for over a year
    Vertigo Ethaniel: but i do live in the biggest city in the country
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Calvino Rabeni: Re your list storm - all important colorado skills
    Calvino Rabeni: Especially the snakes
    Calvino Rabeni: And don't hike after 12pm in summer
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, the snakes
    Agatha Macbeth: loves herpetology
    Storm Nordwind: Fending off the rightwingers too
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, there too?
    Wol Euler: heh
    Storm Nordwind: Everything is at least a quarter spectrum over to the right here.
    Wol Euler nods
    Vertigo Ethaniel: someone mentioned earlier that humans are distinct in that they think
    Vertigo Ethaniel: http://vision02.com/birds-have-feelings/ <-- pure emotion there
    Calvino Rabeni: that is a human vanity
    Wol Euler: I think that#s only true for certain values of "thinking"
    Agatha Macbeth: Animals don't think?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: zon said so
    Storm Nordwind: Those at http://icanhascheezburger.com/ certainly do! ;-))
    Agatha Macbeth: They don't survive very long then :)
    Wol Euler: right
    Calvino Rabeni: Why valorize our own "values" of thinking...
    Agatha Macbeth: Animals probably think we're idiots
    Calvino Rabeni: Indeed they may
    Wol Euler: running around when we could be napping
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
    Calvino Rabeni: NOt eating locally
    Agatha Macbeth: That too
    Storm Nordwind: "For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons."
    Wol Euler smiles and nods
    Agatha Macbeth: So long and thanks for all the fish :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i agree with the not eating locally thing
    Agatha Macbeth: Well if you don't see any sheep you can't eat 'em
    Calvino Rabeni: GTG suddenly, thanks for the chat all, take care and be normal as you like. :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: hah hah
    Wol Euler: bye calvino, be non-average.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: see ya calvino
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Indeed
    Storm Nordwind: Bye Cal. Just be
    Vertigo Ethaniel: well, iots probably time that i got going today
    Agatha Macbeth: Is that one of Fael's flowers in the middle of the fountain?
    Wol Euler: it is, one of hte first in fact
    Vertigo Ethaniel: thank you all for the lovely chat
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, nice
    Wol Euler: bye vertigo, take care
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, bye Vert
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste
    Storm Nordwind: Tonight is 12th night. Must take down the decorations! :)
    Wol Euler: ah, yes.
    Agatha Macbeth: I already have!
    Wol Euler: well, for those of us wiht decorations
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice of you to drop by Shawn :)
    Wol Euler reads and gets all verklemmt: http://deoxy.org/koan/37
    Agatha Macbeth: (Or drop out)
    Wol Euler: yeah, I've given up greeting noobs until/unless they actually sit
    Agatha Macbeth: They probably think 'Who are these nutters'
    Wol Euler: heh
    Wol Euler: as do we, eh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Surely :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well is the listener behaving then?
    Wol Euler: it always behaves well as long as someone is here. The problem comes when everyone leaves and it *should* shut down.
    Agatha Macbeth: Does it not shut down properly?
    Wol Euler: aparently not
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Storm Nordwind: I can always send it a signal, unless it only looks for guardians
    Agatha Macbeth: I've noticed sometimes it detatches from me long after I left the Pavilion...
    Wol Euler: I've logged my alt in, and set the debugging to send its messages to her.
    Wol Euler: let's let it finish up normally and she will see what happens
    Storm Nordwind: That might be your client/netlink perhaps?
    Wol Euler: possibly, yes. I know that for a while I was getting "stale" IMs delivered to my email account
    Storm Nordwind: Well if you need to be part of the signal that resets everything around here when there's no one here, let me know. Those it's hardly special as you can imagine.
    Storm Nordwind: *though
    Wol Euler: oh, do you restart the sim?
    Storm Nordwind: Noooo!!!
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Storm Nordwind: I just force all the seating to default, and the pool and the counter on the noticeboard starts to count the minutes to the next session
    Wol Euler: hmmmmm
    Wol Euler: the autologger has its own scanner routine, I'd rather not try to rejig that
    Wol Euler: I think it's a logic bomb, but I just can't see it.
    Agatha Macbeth: (Soooooooo technical!)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Storm Nordwind: geekspeek
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Wol Euler: http://deoxy.org/koan/57
    Agatha Macbeth: When does it actually stop recording then?
    Storm Nordwind: I love them all!
    Wol Euler smiles a "thank you" at Storm
    Wol Euler: as soon as the last guardian leaves, Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah right
    Storm Nordwind: I got a book by Paul Reps 35 years ago called "Zen Flesh. Zen Bones." They're all in there Wol.
    Wol Euler: though if less than thirty minutes after the starting time, it goes into a "wait" mode in case people return
    Wol Euler makes a note. Ty
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh right
    Storm Nordwind: It has the Gateless Gate and the 10 Bulls in there too
    Agatha Macbeth: 10 bulls?
    Wol Euler: the oxen herding paintings?
    Storm Nordwind: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: What a load of bull ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Get a few beefburgers out of that lot
    Storm Nordwind: http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Flesh-Bone.../dp/0804831866
    Storm Nordwind: But I prefer the original cover! ;)
    Agatha Macbeth: What's the $ > £ rate now?
    Storm Nordwind: http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/pe...ooks/262-1.jpg
    Wol Euler: ty
    Storm Nordwind: It's time for Storm to go.
    Agatha Macbeth: Tatty bye Storm
    Wol Euler: bye storm, take care.
    Storm Nordwind: Get some sleep Wol!
    Wol Euler: I'll try
    Agatha Macbeth: Or should I say See ya!
    Wol Euler: agatha, 1$ = 0.63 Sterling
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah thanks
    Agatha Macbeth: And away he flies....
    Wol Euler: yep
    Agatha Macbeth: How's yer lip?
    Wol Euler: sore
    Wol Euler: shall we adjourn, so I can see what happens? we can go to my dance hallk
    Agatha Macbeth: Dance hallk?
    Wol Euler: -k
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh. The incredible hallk?
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: walk this way
    Agatha Macbeth: If I walk that way....

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