2010.01.07 19:00 - Hearing the Silence of Sound

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. 

Paradise Tennant: so far only a session of one I am afraid...
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Paradise Tennant: hello cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello
Paradise Tennant: very quiet tonight ...it seems not one is online :) but that can be good too :)
Paradise Tennant: *no
Paradise Tennant: how are you
Calvino Rabeni: good - very busy day, lots of calls and online stuff and meeting at my house, etc.
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Luckily I got my sit in, earlier
Calvino Rabeni: The anchor
Paradise Tennant: how long do you sit for ?
Calvino Rabeni: 1/2 hour first, then maybe again right after
Paradise Tennant: fixed point meditation ?
Calvino Rabeni: Not sure what that is exactly, can you describe it a bit?
Paradise Tennant: hmm focusing you mind on one thing .. a candle flame .. picture of a buddha .. flower and trying to slow down the general distraction by dropping everything else
Paradise Tennant: *your
Paradise Tennant: sometimes I just focus on being internally still
Paradise Tennant: see a quiet space inside
Calvino Rabeni: I don't do that, don't make any attempt whatsoever at stillness
Paradise Tennant: what do you do
Calvino Rabeni: It is open space awareness, no focus, only awareness of the pure openness around whatever else happens
Calvino Rabeni: for half hour
Paradise Tennant: interesting
Calvino Rabeni: after that, I switch to subtle body energy stuff, maybe a little tantric
Paradise Tennant: hiya steve we are talking about the different ways of sitting
Calvino Rabeni: Two different styles, usually I keep them separate
stevenaia Michinaga: never formerly sat, will be interesting reading
Paradise Tennant: subtle body energy stuff .. becoming aware of your body ?
stevenaia Michinaga: mainly stand while dong tai chi
Paradise Tennant: smiles at steve I remember you standing :)
stevenaia Michinaga: waiting for chi
Calvino Rabeni: body and body energy and any subtle movement, vibration feeling, etc, against the pure space I contacted in the first state
Calvino Rabeni: THis second stage is also chi-gung like. I do it nearly standing
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, that too
Calvino Rabeni: very altert and energetic
Calvino Rabeni: but has nondual awareness mixed at that stage
Paradise Tennant: so becoming aware of openess .. then focusing on the bodily sensation of it ?
Calvino Rabeni: More or less yes
Calvino Rabeni: Except that the focus doesn't create "objects" of perception
Paradise Tennant: what does it create
Calvino Rabeni: So it isn't necessarily a "sensation"
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: It takes normal "sensations" apart - might or might not change them, doesn't actually matter
Paradise Tennant: what do you mean by pure space ...?
Calvino Rabeni: It is useful as a folloup if I have some kind of creative project, then I can use the results of the first two activities
Calvino Rabeni: But I don't do that regularly
Paradise Tennant: seeking stillness .. creates an opening .. too
Calvino Rabeni: I think, when people talk about "pure consciousness" they might mean the same thing I mean by pure space
Calvino Rabeni: But it has no interference with activity
Paradise Tennant: so nondual .. beyond self ?
Calvino Rabeni: one night Ithink it was bolo and I were talking about listening deeply into sound
Calvino Rabeni: and an experience of hearingthe deep silence inside the sould
Paradise Tennant: ok what is bolo ?
Calvino Rabeni: Bolonath, a PAB guardian
Calvino Rabeni: Or maybe I misremember - you can search it in the log keywords sound and silence
Paradise Tennant: ok
Calvino Rabeni: Even inside the crudest sound, there is deepsilence
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. sound has a resonance .. that dissipates into silence .. yes..
Calvino Rabeni: Loud, you could meditate on the bus stop, doesn't matter, the background is there
Paradise Tennant: yes often meditate in all kinds of places
Calvino Rabeni: It doesn't dissipate into it, it coexists
Paradise Tennant: standing in line .. sitting on a bus .. what ever
Calvino Rabeni: But in one practice in a school I went to,we would use a bell
Paradise Tennant: or a singing bowl ?
Calvino Rabeni: and follow it into infinitely quiet after each time the bell rang.
Calvino Rabeni: It was a zen martial arts dojo practice
Paradise Tennant: to hear the silence within sound ?
Calvino Rabeni: But that was like using a mantra to get a taste - it seems later the bell sound isn't needed any more
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Paradise Tennant: the tibetan has a sort of symbol which they think can part reality .. it has a beautiful sound
Calvino Rabeni: I like the singing bowl - it is fun to have a group meditation with those
Paradise Tennant: yes bought one this summer .. they are beautiful to look at as well
Paradise Tennant: *tibetans have
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I'd like to have a big quartz one
Paradise Tennant: lol hmm not sure you would get the sound .. the resonance or frequency comes from the comingling of seven or eight types of metal
Paradise Tennant: I have an explanation somewhere of how they are crafted
Calvino Rabeni: There is a tibetan guy teaching with different bowls made of mineral - i just saw it on youtube - don't know if he's good
Paradise Tennant: I am going to have to try to listen for the silence within the sound though
Calvino Rabeni: RIght there's an ancient art to it
Calvino Rabeni: One thing I really liked about temples in asia is some have lots of bells
Paradise Tennant: yes and they are works of art and love
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe dozens or hundreds, with scriptures etc, on them
Paradise Tennant: yes each symbol with a meaning
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the bells speak them
Calvino Rabeni: I recently started a group that meets at my house for meditation - it is rather sweet to have them there, as a contrast to the normal solo sits
Paradise Tennant: I am going to use voice for a moment and let my new bowl sing .. are you ok with that ?
Calvino Rabeni: Got to hook up, hold in
Calvino Rabeni: on
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: Hearing it
stevenaia Michinaga: nice
Paradise Tennant: wow it takes a lot to make it go that loud ....
Paradise Tennant: enough to be able to be picked up by the mike
Paradise Tennant: you started a meditation group in rl
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I didn't start it, it was co-op, but we meet at my house
Paradise Tennant: nice
Calvino Rabeni: It is naturalized - no religion involved
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: But by now, many people know how, don't need instructions
Paradise Tennant: I find group meditation often much stronger .. like it is amplified somehow...
Calvino Rabeni: It is a practice support group- some people find that helpful
Paradise Tennant: just found my self playing the lyrics to sounds of silence in my head . .only it woudl silence of sounds :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, there is somethign special about the group sit
Paradise Tennant: a oractice support group to help people sit
Paradise Tennant: *would be
Calvino Rabeni: Yes but not just. To help them put together a whole set of whatever practices would benefit their lifes
Paradise Tennant: yes alot of that relates to disciplines though often I find thought discipline the most effective
Calvino Rabeni: an awareness discipline goes along with any other activity
Paradise Tennant: training yourself out of having negative or judgemental thoughts .. focusing on the present moment ..
Paradise Tennant: builidng awareness that is based more in the present and less in abstraction
Calvino Rabeni: It varies a lot with different people, their character and how long they've practiced
Calvino Rabeni: Some struggle with the psychological, e.g. the inner critics or whatever
Calvino Rabeni: but that isn't a universal thing
Calvino Rabeni: And there are some who wouldn't even want to be part of that group, because their stuggles while valid, are of a different type
Calvino Rabeni: for instance, they need to work hard on not being alcoholic
Calvino Rabeni: so it is their main concern for a while, maybe a long time
Calvino Rabeni: however long it takes
Calvino Rabeni: And there is the stage of struggling with personal history, family, etc.
Paradise Tennant: addiction is a very heavy word ..
Calvino Rabeni: This is served by therap,
Calvino Rabeni: therapy
Calvino Rabeni: I was talkign about 12-step addiction programs
Calvino Rabeni: the members identify themselves as being alcholic and want help with it
Paradise Tennant: and it works
Calvino Rabeni: Yes it works for them
Calvino Rabeni: Many of them have issues and habits of blame and judgment
Calvino Rabeni: Which were part of the culture of an addicted family
Paradise Tennant: yes
Calvino Rabeni: But some famiilies don't have that, they have other ways in which their "being" is hidden
Paradise Tennant: such as
Calvino Rabeni: attachment to achievement... compulsive behavours they don't want ... workaholic ... eating disorders ... depression ...
Calvino Rabeni: There are lots of ways to get lost, all pretty distinct
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: and equally lost
Calvino Rabeni: Or things like oppression
stevenaia Michinaga: time to depart
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy
Paradise Tennant: nite nite steve :) thanks for coming
Calvino Rabeni: Not that it isn't real in the world as a social pattern, but the identity is an interalized thing
Calvino Rabeni: Bye steve
Paradise Tennant: well it is morphing .. kind of delusion .. really
Calvino Rabeni: health issues that are insome degree psychosomatic
Paradise Tennant: how do you see identify ..
Paradise Tennant: *identity
Calvino Rabeni: I resist the idea that there should be a generally accepted model of the "healthy, happy human being" however
Paradise Tennant: hmm lol we would not be human if we were ..all we could be :)
Calvino Rabeni: Because if you assume that, then no one measures up, and the drug companies can have a field day with their marketing
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Paradise Tennant: well I am glad I am human .. more fun than being a wood chuck
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, I'm glad too,but quite biased, never tried being a wood chuck :)
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: never know maybe you have but have forgotten :)
Calvino Rabeni: Human is "the way to be" in my humble opinion :
Paradise Tennant: I wonder sometimes about memory if not on some level it is a resonance too .. seems so tragic that the only you really have ..your memories snuff like a candle
Calvino Rabeni: However, if we could be both at the same time, it might be tempting :)
Paradise Tennant: rather than shared on some level
Calvino Rabeni: And they may be like you say - I think that a lot
Paradise Tennant: is picturing a woodchuckish human
Calvino Rabeni: Or on alternate times, with complete memory
Calvino Rabeni: I think every human has a deep memory of what it is like to be other animals
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: I agree
Calvino Rabeni: A memory more like a resonance
Paradise Tennant: we are all part of the same fabric ..
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes I think, if a UFO abducted a human and took them to another planet, with beings made only of glass, for instance, except for a dog or woodchuck, the human would then be able to feel kinship with those earth creatures
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: And a different kinship with the glass entities however
Paradise Tennant: well can feel kinship .. strong attunement .. here and now ..
Paradise Tennant: to all manner of animals
Paradise Tennant: if we allow ourselves to know them
Calvino Rabeni: But there is a great dal to resonate with, about being embodied in this way, whth warm blood, skin, all that
Calvino Rabeni: it is a common experience
Paradise Tennant: yes
Calvino Rabeni: as in - we have it in common with mammals -
Paradise Tennant: common joys .. fears .. intellligence ..animals are much smarter than we percieve
Calvino Rabeni: We all have the same bones and body plan, more or less
Calvino Rabeni: emotions, hunger, gravity, ways of moving
Paradise Tennant: nods .. 99% same DNA as apes
Calvino Rabeni: Agree with what you said about intelligence etc.
Calvino Rabeni: Of course to some minds, only the differences really matter
Paradise Tennant: do you have a pet ?
Calvino Rabeni: because those are the points around which competitive advantages can be gained.
Calvino Rabeni: Pet, not right now, I had a cat a while back
Calvino Rabeni: Smart animal
Calvino Rabeni: Good relater
Paradise Tennant: my dog packed me lunch a few weeks back
Paradise Tennant: seriously .. I take a gym bag to work every day run at lunch .. found two mouthfuls of kibble in my gymbag .. one day .. only entity in the apartment who could have done that was the dog :)
Calvino Rabeni: I was waiting for the story - nice :)
Calvino Rabeni: Very considerate
Paradise Tennant: found alittle pile of kibble by my pillow one night too .. maybe he thinks I don't eat enough
Paradise Tennant: lol
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Paradise Tennant: yes very considerate
Calvino Rabeni: My cat brought me things I didn't actually want to eat
Paradise Tennant: lol
Calvino Rabeni: A bat, for instance
Calvino Rabeni: But I appreciated the difficulty involved in catching it
Paradise Tennant: poor bat
Calvino Rabeni: The bat was OK, as was the oppossum
Paradise Tennant: wow
Paradise Tennant: an oppossum!
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: They are tough
Calvino Rabeni: The lizard was OK too
Calvino Rabeni: the birds usually didn't make it - they are fragile
Paradise Tennant: ;(
Paradise Tennant: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Although he would eat the whole thing bones feathers beak and all
Calvino Rabeni: What a stomach
Paradise Tennant: was watching a pigeon swoop and dive from my office today .. wondering how that must feel being able to dive into to space plummet down and then just spread your wings and curve back up into the sky
Paradise Tennant: pretty cool being a bird I would bet
Calvino Rabeni: Sounds fun
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: And apparently you know where your food stashes are, all over town
Calvino Rabeni: If a bird
Paradise Tennant: yes who will feed you
Paradise Tennant: and when
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Some birds hide their seeds for the winter, in hundreds or thousands of places, and remember where
Paradise Tennant: :) they are very smart
Calvino Rabeni: "Bird Brain" is quite good at doing certain things.
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: :) i am going to have scoot .. getting sleepy .. almost midnight here
Paradise Tennant: thank you so much for coming
Calvino Rabeni: Of course that ability evolved quite a bit into humans
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Paradise, good talking to you
Paradise Tennant: was really quiet tonight .. feels very odd to be sitting here alone for so long ..usually it is a place of company ;)
Calvino Rabeni: sleep well
Paradise Tennant: good night cal :) lol dog must know we are about to go for a walk . he just got up and walked over and started wagging his tail I swear he can read my mind ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Midnight stroll
Paradise Tennant: you too sleep well :)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Paradise Tennant: yes .. very chilly one .. last walk of the day I scurry out with a coat of my pj and we do not go far in this weather lol :)