2010.06.04 01:00 - Language is taken for granted

Wol Euler was guardian for this session. Comments will be added later.

 

Wol Euler: hello calvino

Calvino Rabeni: Hi Wol

Wol Euler: I was going to ask how you were, because for me it's a new day since we last met, but realized that for you it's just "later the same day"

Wol Euler: of course, one might ask the question anyway...

--BELL--

Wol Euler: good morning, gaya

Gaya Ethaniel: Good morning :)

Calvino Rabeni: Yes; True; OK

Calvino Rabeni: Hi Gaya

Wol Euler smiles for the camera

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Wol Euler: hello cosmicflower

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Cosmicflower :)

Calvino Rabeni: Hi Cosmic :))

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello ;)

Gaya Ethaniel wonders Wol's appearance changes in SL and RL ... :)

Wol Euler grins

Wol Euler: perhaps they are related?

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Wol Euler: I am wearing fancy shoes in RL too :)

Calvino Rabeni: Is it possible, wol, to have a script that causes avatar A (e.g. Wol) to see exactly the view that avatar B (e.g. Calvino) sees?

Wol Euler: mmmmmmmm, I'm going with "no"

Wol Euler: because B's camera is not tied to his body

Wol Euler: you could work out what B's body is facing towards, but not necessarily where his cam is looking

Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni can just imagine Wol's RL shoes

Wol Euler: heheheh

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Wol Euler: I'll post them on facebook perhaps

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;D

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Calvino Rabeni: Howabout in the Log :) ?

Wol Euler: mmmmmm, I'm going with "no" :)

Wol Euler: crossing the worlds, y'see

Calvino Rabeni: That can cause a short circuit, then?

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yaku :)

Calvino Rabeni: "Don't cross the beams"

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Good Morning Yaku

Wol Euler: oh yes, all kinds of oddness might leak out, or in

Wol Euler: hello yaku

Calvino Rabeni: My concern too - maybe even a strange loop

Wol Euler: heavens forfend!

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Wol Euler: what shall we talk about, this fine moment?

Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking, PaB topics that start with F, G, or U?

Calvino Rabeni: Any nominations? I'm a little stuck

Gaya Ethaniel thinks.

Wol Euler: for your glossary?

Calvino Rabeni: Yes

Wol Euler: F is for Free, as in "are we ever truly"

Calvino Rabeni: OR - As we wish to be... :) good one

Gaya Ethaniel listens now for G and U ... :)

Wol Euler: we've debated so many ideas here...

Wol Euler: God?

Wol Euler: Goodness?

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Wol Euler: Gratitude!

Wol Euler: much better

Calvino Rabeni: Ooooo Kayyy - I like that one

Gaya Ethaniel: And generosity :)

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Calvino Rabeni: Yes nice too

Wol Euler: U is for ... Understanding?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello Dylan

Gaya Ethaniel: And union :)

Dylan Caedmon: hello

Wol Euler: hello dylan

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Dylan :)

Calvino Rabeni: I thought of that - is it Peace, Love and Understanding type understanding? Or insight? Grokking....

Wol Euler: G is for Grok! that has to be in there

Calvino Rabeni: Universe -...

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Calvino Rabeni: hehe

Wol Euler: Universe*s*

Wol Euler: dylan, have a seat, join us

Wol Euler: I'll give you a notecard to tell you something about hte group

Calvino Rabeni: Good idea, the plural

Dylan Caedmon: its kind of you toinvite me, but I am afk a lot

Wol Euler: fair enough :)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: that ding at the end is so cheerful

Wol Euler: I'd thought of understanding in the sense of "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni is illiterate in whatever language that is :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Translate please :)

Wol Euler: "to understand is to forgive"

Wol Euler: understanding -> acceptance (or at least tolerance)

Gaya Ethaniel ponders.

Calvino Rabeni: Thanks :)

Wol Euler: but there is clearly a lot of searching for factual knowledge that happens here too

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Are You Wol from France?

Wol Euler: no, I'm canadian. we learned english at home and french in school

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, isn't there also used french in language, is it country with two languages?

Wol Euler: yes, in theory.

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but in practice..

Wol Euler: the country has two official languages, and you can do government business and go to court in either language anywhere in Canada

Wol Euler: in practice, almost all the Francophones are in Quebec

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, okey ;)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: we have also two languages, swedish and finnish

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but there are area of swidish languaged people, mostly spoken finnish

Wol Euler: are both "official" languages?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and in school "had to" study swedish

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: these days they are planning replace swedish to some other language

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: more use in the world

Wol Euler nods.

Gaya Ethaniel: Chinese would be a good choice :P

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Darren :)

Wol Euler: the US cheats its children by not encouraging them to learn other languages IMHO

Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning darren

Wol Euler: hello darren

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;) heh

Darren Islar: morning

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hi Darren

Gaya Ethaniel: Actually a choice of second language taught at schools in Korea often reflect history, politics and economics.

Gaya Ethaniel: English is a fixed subject of course. European languages were common but these days, Chinese or Japanese are much more popular.

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I considered maybe, Chinese as the next one to learn

Wol Euler: English is compulsory in German schools too, you cannot get into university (for any subject) without it

Darren Islar: same in Holland

Yakuzza Lethecus: at least from my experience most ppl in the netherlands are at least able to speak english, which doesn't apply for germany as an example

Yakuzza Lethecus: but even worse in france and spain

Wol Euler: the dutch are almost annoyingly multilingual :) Most speak four languages or more

Darren Islar: most 'young' people does yes

Yakuzza Lethecus: most of the ppl i talked to from poland and alike were able to speak english as an interesting impression, but maybe i wouldn't have talk to them if they didn't :D

Darren Islar: tha'ts not true Wol, but get your drift :-)

Wol Euler: perhaps I meet a specific subset of them, then :)

Darren Islar: probably

Darren Islar: butit is not quite untrue alos

Darren Islar: sorry for my typos, just got up :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: darren: when you listen to afrikaans do you understand them ?

Wol Euler: E is for Extrapolation

Wol Euler: meeting one Dutchman and thinking that he represents a culture

Darren Islar: I can read it, not understand it

Darren Islar: but it almost reads like Dutch

Darren Islar: a bit of a weird Dutch though

Gaya Ethaniel: To speak a language is to immerse in a culture I think.

--BELL--

Wol Euler nods emphatically

Darren Islar: but there accent is quite different, so if they start talking it, i'm clueless

Darren Islar: but most people in South Africa speak English anyway

Gaya Ethaniel: Each word has a cultural reference point. To think of a word, one brings up a whole world with it. Much like 'self' in a specific world view.

Darren Islar: English has quite a different feeling to me then Dutch

Gaya Ethaniel: They co-exist :)

Wol Euler: I believe that there's a movement to have Spanish declared an official language of the US?

Darren Islar: nice way to put it Gaya

Gaya Ethaniel: That makes sense :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Darren :)

Calvino Rabeni: I had not heard that movement

Gaya Ethaniel: So I have a question ... when you speak English, do you feel your sense of self is different to when speaking in Dutch Darren?

Wol Euler: well, perhaps it's just a nice idea

Calvino Rabeni: but... one thing I notice lately, is more products in supermarkets, that are labeled ONLY in spanish

Darren Islar: well, it brings up another feeling

Darren Islar: english is more smooth

Wol Euler: (let's open that question to anyone who speaks two languages regularly)

Wol Euler: "smooth" is an interesting word

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Darren Islar: English might even be more close to me then Dutch

Wol Euler: wow

Darren Islar: as a feeling that is

Yakuzza Lethecus: i often wonder how thinking in another language is shifting when you use one language only for hobbies and personal interests and the other for work and real life

Gaya Ethaniel: I also feel quite comfortable in English.

Darren Islar: yes, it is a 'comfortable' language

Calvino Rabeni: I don't hear English as smooth; and as it being my native language, it is hard to hear it as having a "quality". So I often thought it as boring....

Darren Islar: :)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is one language I have taken to be beautifull since little girl, its frenc

Calvino Rabeni: .. but then one day I started to hear its sound qualities, as if newly

Wol Euler: "what the hell is water?"

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ..h

Calvino Rabeni: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me :)

Darren Islar: well I think when your mothertongue is Spanisch, English doesn't sounds smooth

Gaya Ethaniel: That makes sense :)

Darren Islar: I don't like French

Wol Euler: I loved learning French, I think htat was one of the things that made me a word nerd

Gaya Ethaniel: English has smoother intonation, rising and falling compared to many Asian languages.

Wol Euler: realizing that the map was not the territory :) that D-O-G designates a canine but is not thing itself

Gaya Ethaniel: ?

Darren Islar: :)

Wol Euler: a monoglot might think (I did) that there is only one correct way to label a thing-in-the-world

Darren Islar: but that would be the opposit of a word nerd :)

Wol Euler: that the only correct word for small domesticated meat-eating animal that barks and wags its tail is "dog"

Wol Euler: learning that there were other words, equally valid, opened a box that I didn't know I was in

Darren Islar: (nice description :-))

Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)

Darren Islar: (small domesticated meateatin animal that barks and wags its tail: I need to remember that one :))

Wol Euler: to put it in extremely geeky language: words are pointers, not variables :)

Darren Islar: but doesn't that bring you closer to the meaning Wol, instead of the word itself?

Calvino Rabeni: English has an interesting variety of possible rhythms, compared to some other languages, and freedom from using tones for word encoding, which frees them for some expressive variation

Wol Euler: yes, but until I learned that dogs are also chien, I didn't know that the word wasn't the meaning

Darren Islar: wow

--BELL--

Darren Islar: nice way to describe 'smooth' Cal

Wol Euler: intonation, yes, that is an interesting point

Calvino Rabeni: I like hearing the tonal languages like Thai

Darren Islar: I don;t think I can imagine the word being the meaning, pondering about it

Wol Euler: hello sartre

Calvino Rabeni: The sounds of words are not empty - they have meanings also, as in mantras

Darren Islar: hi Sartre

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Satre :)

Darren Islar: quite right

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hi Satre

Wol Euler nods.

Calvino Rabeni: Have you ever heard of the Librivox project?

Wol Euler: not yet :)

Calvino Rabeni: It is a project with volunteers creating audio recordings of public domain literature

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: noup

Darren Islar: I think I will in the near future :)

Wol Euler: http://librivox.org/

Calvino Rabeni: So, there are *lots* of voice recordings by amateurs

Calvino Rabeni: And you can hear the same poem read, maybe 10 ways some times

Wol Euler: wow

Calvino Rabeni: Listening like that, gives a feeling for the sound meaning as different from the content meaning

Darren Islar: like you're playing a piece of music in different ways

Calvino Rabeni: and how it may help it or detract from it

Wol Euler nods.

Calvino Rabeni: Yes llike that, different interpretations and expressive qualities

Calvino Rabeni: And so I started doing some of those poems

Calvino Rabeni: and then listening to the sound

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Calvino Rabeni: it is a "little experiment"

Darren Islar: music has a language of its own, which shows that sounds can speak for themselves

Wol Euler: ah

Wol Euler: what a great idea. I love the internets.

Calvino Rabeni: I started listening a lot more consciously to common public vocal speech acts

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;D

Calvino Rabeni: Like the TV announcers, who say things like "PREVIOUSLY, on Lost"

Darren Islar: :)

Calvino Rabeni: or "THis program is brought to you by ... "

Gaya Ethaniel nods. Or one can choose to hear either Fsharp or Gflat depending :)

Gaya Ethaniel: lol

Wol Euler: :)

Darren Islar: right Gaya

Calvino Rabeni: All those commonplaces - become unconscious

Calvino Rabeni: but have a lot of depth, potentially

Wol Euler: aural landscape

Calvino Rabeni: it is qualitative, not semantic

Gaya Ethaniel: It's amazing isn't it? At the point of hearing F#, the whole structure that pinpoints the note comes up.

Gaya Ethaniel: One doesn't see the structure but hearing the note as F# points to the fact.

Wol Euler nods.

Gaya Ethaniel: Then play again, hear Gflat instead!

Wol Euler: can you hear an absolute difference, or does it depend on context?

Gaya Ethaniel: I think it implies that I'm hearing in each context.

Darren Islar: well, to me it is context

Darren Islar: the build up and the dissolving

Gaya Ethaniel: To make a similar example, this may mean also that when I think 'I', I bring up a whole world with it and look through it rather than experience with openness.

Gaya Ethaniel: But then, I do wonder if living in that openness all the time is possible.

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: for the kind of living we do, perhaps not.

Gaya Ethaniel nods.

Darren Islar: we learn to speak when we are very little

Darren Islar: can't remember myself when that happened

Darren Islar: so language is taken for granted

Darren Islar: not really listened at any more

Wol Euler nods.

Wol Euler: like the foundations of a building, invisible

Darren Islar: right

Wol Euler: it's always interested me that amnesiacs don't forget how to speak

Darren Islar: only when you start to understand another language, you start to listen better

Calvino Rabeni: One thing I like is - as when meditating in public place - not being able to understand the meaning of people speaking my language, just hearing the sounds

Calvino Rabeni: It's a little like being the "little one" again

Wol Euler: mmhmm, nice image

--BELL--

Gaya Ethaniel: Time to go. Thanks everyone :)

Darren Islar: yes, some kind of murmour

Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care

Yakuzza Lethecus: take care gaya

Darren Islar: bye Gaya

Wol Euler: I must go too, work calls :/

Wol Euler: enjoy the day

Darren Islar: bye Wol

Calvino Rabeni: BYE Wol

Calvino Rabeni: ALso reminder, the WIKI changes today

Darren Islar: don't I need a new password?

Darren Islar: because I still need to post a log

Calvino Rabeni: I think so, Darren. I am IM-ing Fael

Darren Islar: okay

Darren Islar: hi Zaldaan

Zaldaan Sirnah: Hi.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zaldaan

Zaldaan Sirnah: Hi hi

Sartre Placebo: hello zaldaan

Zaldaan Sirnah: Why do you post logs?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hi zaldaan

Darren Islar: those are the recordings of the meeting

Zaldaan Sirnah: Good morning, Sartre and Cosmicflower

Darren Islar: we post them on the wiki, so others of the group can read it

Zaldaan Sirnah: Do you hope the wisdom of the visitors here is helpful enough that it must be propagated?

Darren Islar: it is about staying in contact

Darren Islar: to me that is

Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense to me

Darren Islar: and sometimes yes, we do have discussions bringing insight

Zaldaan Sirnah: That makes sense -- for those who feel the need, whenever, to see what's going on in the rest of the group's "body"

Calvino Rabeni: As far as propagation, it kind of amplifies the babble at least as much as any wisdom that might be there :))

Calvino Rabeni: But there are other interesting effects - it gives mental continuity

Zaldaan Sirnah: Oh I thought it would reduce the babble

Calvino Rabeni: No, because people are used to written things being quite filtered and condensed

Darren Islar: I'm afraid it doesn't

Calvino Rabeni: the standards of "writing" require that

Darren Islar: and there is contact in babbling

Calvino Rabeni: but these are raw chat logs

Calvino Rabeni: So people read them and might think - not much there

Calvino Rabeni: however, were you to make a transcript of a recording of nearly any group, it would seem pretty sparse, compared to composed writing

Calvino Rabeni: It is an understandible expectation

Calvino Rabeni: Also sometimes it makes possible, for topics to be spread out over many sessions

Calvino Rabeni: and picked up from before

Zaldaan Sirnah: sounds like a lot of good reasons

Calvino Rabeni: just the fact that it is there in the log, can invite people to use their real memory for continuity, using the record as backup

Zaldaan Sirnah: My consciousness forgets that it's being recorded, being new here, and I probably therefore leak incredible excesses in wisdom right?

Calvino Rabeni: You might want to be a little careful then... :)

Calvino Rabeni: I found it hard to adapt to that prospect

Calvino Rabeni: Especially in the beginning

Calvino Rabeni: and to know what not to say

Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm very practiced, with many many years of experience, in expression of pertinence, and yet I have adapted myself to let go a tiny bit and relax in chat -- and here that goes out the window -- but it's just a desire, to feel an inappropriate responsibility.

Zaldaan Sirnah: So, anything of importance in your lives at the moment? Perhaps we can help, if necessary.

--BELL--

Zaldaan Sirnah: where do the bird noises come from?

Calvino Rabeni: I think they are standard second life background sounds

Calvino Rabeni: Or maybe installed by the builder of the sim

Darren Islar: I think the latter

Zaldaan Sirnah: For years I have wanted an environment simulation system, but much more developed than the environment-sound generating softwares I found.

Zaldaan Sirnah: One which has many recordings of animals and environments, settable to a particular environment

Calvino Rabeni: It could be "mocked up" in second life

Calvino Rabeni: great depth of sound would be harder

Zaldaan Sirnah: For example, you could pick the salt-water marshes of Southern California, and it would have a bit of knowledge put into it.

Calvino Rabeni: The other day I was hiking with my camera, but actually wanted a high quality sound recorder instead

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, red-wing black bird

Zaldaan Sirnah: Biologists, bird watchers, etc. would contribute. "This is the sound the whatever-sparrow makes when the so-and-so-hawk is nearby."

Calvino Rabeni: right, and the birds that pretend to be other birds

Darren Islar: :)

Calvino Rabeni: One fakes the sound of the hawk, then when some birds flee, it raids their nest

Zaldaan Sirnah: Here in secondlife, we could make bird objects which actually make their noises, and they can scan the objects around them.

Darren Islar: need to go

Darren Islar: bye all :)

Zaldaan Sirnah: Hey you guys, a griefer! Everyone leave [so I have extra space in the fountain].

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Darren

Zaldaan Sirnah: Just thinking about it worked to scare Darren off.

Darren Islar: what do you mean Zaldaan?

Zaldaan Sirnah: just a joke, ttyl :)

Zaldaan Sirnah: I was joking about an SL predator which might scare people

Darren Islar: and who might that predator be?

Zaldaan Sirnah: You haven't heard the term "griefer"?

Darren Islar: of course

Darren Islar: so who is the griefer here?

Darren Islar: who is scaring me off in your opinion?

Zaldaan Sirnah: It's pretend, like the bird mimicking the predatory bird

Zaldaan Sirnah: the bird doesn't exist

Darren Islar: I met you today Zaldaan, you just might have said 'bye'

Darren Islar: and maybe you are the one that scared me off

Darren Islar: didn't feel like a discussion like this

Darren Islar: feeling that it was coming up

Zaldaan Sirnah: Some monkeys are also known to fake the monkey warning-call of a snake being present, then they go and get the food in the water

Darren Islar: bye everyone

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: bye

Yakuzza Lethecus: bye darren

Darren Islar: oops, sorry cosmic

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: don`t worry

Zaldaan Sirnah: I don't like goodbyes :(

Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, this group meets often enough

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, there are actually no goodbyes

Yakuzza Lethecus: not the same ppl tho

Yakuzza Lethecus: but 4 times a day does not really mean a long goodbye :)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: we all are existing

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: anyway

Zaldaan Sirnah: I will see you later, Darren :)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: somewhere

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: on space and time, on earth

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: can find them people from our hearts

Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, bye for now everyone

Zaldaan Sirnah: find them "from" our hearts?

--BELL--

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;) yes Zal

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: How someone can be "missing" if that One is existing

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is no truly goodbyes

Zaldaan Sirnah: It feels like love, in a relationship, implies a sharing, such that that person becomes a part of you, and you them. Then when they die, part of you has died.

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmmm, no

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is no death

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: only a portal to another dimension

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: eaven deaths are very near

Zaldaan Sirnah: Many of the actions and reactions within your system can no longer function the same, and also everything you've done to contribute to their pains in life still exist in your own memory.

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: pain existing that long that its kept, not let go

Zaldaan Sirnah: what have you read or experienced that gives you the understanding that it is not death, but a portal to another dimension?

Zaldaan Sirnah: or what is your explanation of that

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its my own life experience and remembering

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I do not need to "prove" my self

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: life experience is my explanation

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: remembering

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and seeing

Zaldaan Sirnah: it's okay if you don't want to expand on you understanding of it -- I am not asking you to prove yourself.

Zaldaan Sirnah: I appreciate the bit you have shared, thank you.

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah ;) I can not "explain"

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I do share

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: with hmm

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: joy

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but its something I do not know words

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: to explain

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I just know it

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: seen them "ghosts" also, and helped them

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: spirits

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I take death to be same kind of portal to another dimension

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: than birth is

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: from one place to another

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its been since I was a little girl

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: felt them spirits already then

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is no such "thing" what I have done or experienced

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but there is been growth

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: to be more aware

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: to expand mind and soul

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: with others help

Zaldaan Sirnah: Interesting. I haven't recognized experiencing ghosts, except silly things happening and scaring me as a child, with readily available explanations.

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Cosmic un-crashed

Calvino Rabeni: I saw you return before arriving here

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)

Zaldaan Sirnah: How did you see?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its a vision inside the head

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: of feel

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: strong feel

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or knowledge

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: knowing of something

Zaldaan Sirnah: Is that how it is for you too, Calvino?

Zaldaan Sirnah: or, for everyone, rather

Calvino Rabeni: I'm not qualified to speak of everyone

Zaldaan Sirnah: well, that question was to you, and the second (about everyone) to Cosmic

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: for everyone? Sorry, can you explain, not understand

Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the question can be rephrased?

Zaldaan Sirnah: Calvino said he saw... I wanted to know how he saw.

Zaldaan Sirnah: Flower answered, so I wondered if her experience was the same as Calvino's

Zaldaan Sirnah: and figured, if the knowledge was there, if it's true with everyone's "vision" of things in this regard.

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, "our-Kind" do experience much same way I think

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but truly any of us I think can not speak about everyone, because all have own experience

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but some things might be same "kind"

--BELL--

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: goes to pick up some trees to fire place from warehouse on backyard

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: (planning barbeque sausage)

Zaldaan Sirnah: :)

Zaldaan Sirnah: afk, tea and helping someone

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: back

Calvino Rabeni: WB Cos :)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thanks Dear

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh, this fire do warm up in rainy day like this

--BELL--

Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm curious where you are

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: where?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how come?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: in rl?

Zaldaan Sirnah: country

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Finnland

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: And You?

Calvino Rabeni: USA

Calvino Rabeni: and you Zal?

Zaldaan Sirnah: Where in U.S. Calvino?

Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm in Los Angeles

Calvino Rabeni: Oregon

Zaldaan Sirnah: Beautiful

Calvino Rabeni: Yeah true

Zaldaan Sirnah: I was recently thinking of an old friend of mine who was Finnish :)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)

Zaldaan Sirnah: Glass grandma

Zaldaan Sirnah: Oops, we weren't very quiet

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: why need to be quiet?

Zaldaan Sirnah: well I wasn't even practicing anything abnormal, and my normal state is not peaceful

Calvino Rabeni: Oh, the bell pause - yeah, it scrolled off my window, didn't see it

Calvino Rabeni: sound turned off

Zaldaan Sirnah: Is the bell 24/7?

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the bell is every 15 minutes, regardless whether there is anyone here or a recorded chat session

Zaldaan Sirnah: I might leave myself here all day then.. or setup alerts on my system.

Zaldaan Sirnah: to help me and my family

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: just a sec

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Need to help son to barbeque sausage

Calvino Rabeni: How would that help, Zal?

Calvino Rabeni: There are bell timer apps for smart phones also

Zaldaan Sirnah: It would help similar to the way the bell helps here

Zaldaan Sirnah: Reminders of something to practice or implement

Zaldaan Sirnah: We get lost here in our work, and another member of our family in other things.. and this would help I think.

Zaldaan Sirnah: I had one set for 5 times a day before.

Zaldaan Sirnah: But I like every 15 minutes for this repeated... return to self.

Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking of using one during the day for that purpose

Calvino Rabeni: Usually I don't but, Iwant to focus on that "Return" for a while

Zaldaan Sirnah: http://www.paterico.com/windows-cron

Zaldaan Sirnah: I won't put cron there, but will make use of the scheduler. In Unix I'd use cron

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what web page this is?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: is it Yours Zal?

Zaldaan Sirnah: No, just from a search for "windows 7 cron"

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah okey

Zaldaan Sirnah: cron is a program used in almost all unix (including linux) systems for scheduling events

Zaldaan Sirnah: in Windows you use this thing called the "Scheduler". I may have mine play an mp3 every 15 minutes

Zaldaan Sirnah: maybe a John Denver song ;)

Zaldaan Sirnah: most likely a gong.mp3 :)

--BELL--

Zaldaan Sirnah: I had the sound on my computer all the way up, to hear the birds here

Calvino Rabeni: ah

Zaldaan Sirnah: Then I played this: http://www.freesound.org/samplesView...e.php?id=59239

Calvino Rabeni: I know that site

Zaldaan Sirnah: with two people sleeping

Calvino Rabeni: night owl :)

Zaldaan Sirnah: Freesound is wonderful :) I have some beautiful Nightingale song, and morning birds, going for hours in a few of these recordings.

Calvino Rabeni: Is there a nature school in southern CA?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I would be interested about mystery chool ;)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: those kind what we had in egypt many thousands years ago ;)

Zaldaan Sirnah: I don't like that Freesound disables my account so quickly

Zaldaan Sirnah: nature school. There used to be a zoo-magnet highschool near the LA Zoo

Zaldaan Sirnah: Cosmic, mysticism school?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes ;)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: it would be interesting

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm

Zaldaan Sirnah: I go to one.

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, there are still existing those???

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Life-Itself is one, but

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: the school

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ?

Zaldaan Sirnah: There are lots of teachers who try to teach mysticism

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, new age folks

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I know

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but hmm. feeling in egypt many thousands ears back there were different kind of school

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: for priests and priestesses

Zaldaan Sirnah: I like this school because it has such intense focus, for a long long time, on teaching the truth of things

Calvino Rabeni: Coming back to yourself then?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I want to share with You something I got some time ago, just a sec

Zaldaan Sirnah: It seems so -- if getting rid of falsehood and becoming closer to true principles, as well as many other practices which guide to stability... if that's "coming back to yourself", then yes.

Zaldaan Sirnah: the teaching clarifies thoughts

Zaldaan Sirnah: aside from the practices (which of course clarify thoughts too)

Zaldaan Sirnah: It's hard to explain in a few words

--BELL--

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: This came to my mind when talking about mystery schools and egypt

Zaldaan Sirnah: k

Zaldaan Sirnah: thanks

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: felt to share ;)

Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm not sure if it's a good thing to make too much fiction out of history

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: too much?

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: fiction?

Calvino Rabeni: Zal and I are likely in the same time zone

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: sleepy time ;)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: I'm going offline, goodby Cosmic and Zal

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye <3<3<3

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I will go too, rl calls

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Was nice to see You Zal, Enjoy ;)