2010.06.19 07:00 - From Soccer via Time to Emotions

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Fael Illyar: Hi Darren, Steve :)
Darren Islar: hi Fael, Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Fael, Darren
Darren Islar: hey Pema :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pema
Pema Pera: hello everybody!
Fael Innovia: meep! :)
Pema Pera: (sorry, tel. ; brb)
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: are Fael and Fael related?
Fael Innovia: maybe :)
Fael Illyar: yes :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Darren Islar is wondering if they always agree with each other
Fael Innovia: nope :P
Pema Pera: (back)
Darren Islar: wb
Fael Illyar: wb Pema :)
stevenaia Michinaga: is yes and maybe agreement?
Fael Innovia: maybe :)
Darren Islar is looking at Fael Illyar for a yes?
Fael Illyar: yes :P
Darren Islar: :)

I asked whether both Fael's speak Japanese:

Pema Pera: 両方は日本語話すの？
Darren Islar: right Pema!!
Fael Innovia: yes, we both speak Japanese ... but the IME doesn't work for this one
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: hi Eos!
Fael Innovia: あ、違います。書ける
Pema Pera: よかった！
Darren Islar: hie Eos :)
Fael Innovia: Hi Eos :)
Pema Pera: 久しぶり、ファエルさんたちと日本語を喋る。^^
Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
Pema Pera: btw, I just watched the Holland-Japan soccer game
Eos Amaterasu: Hi gang
Darren Islar: I only now 'we' won :)
Pema Pera: it was fun to watch -- yes, 1-0
Darren Islar: but I don't know which part of you won and lost :))
Pema Pera: but the Japanese put up a good fight, and they had quite a few chances to make a goal (almost)

I described my ambiguous situation, being in Japan right now.

Pema Pera: and I was in a very good position: I would have been happy for either side to win :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Eos
Fael Innovia: oh no... football again :)
Darren Islar: :))
Pema Pera: depending whether I felt more Dutch Japanese or more Japanese Dutch :)
Darren Islar: I guess that depended on who won :)
Pema Pera: well, yes, of course :-)
Pema Pera: I bought some beer in advance, knowing that at least I would have reason to celebrate
Darren Islar: heheheh
Fael Illyar smiles 'Definitely.'
Pema Pera: and the timing was perfect: it started at 8:30 pm
Pema Pera: good time zone to watch!
Darren Islar: yes
Darren Islar: and to have a beer afterwards
Pema Pera: yes!
Pema Pera: (a Japanese wheat beer, Yebisu)
Darren Islar: never tried that
Darren Islar: does that taste well?
Pema Pera: (( with a curious name: "milk beer" instead of white/wheat beer ))
Darren Islar: :)
Pema Pera: excellent, Darren :)
Pema Pera: fortunately it does not taste milky . . .
Pema Pera: hi Ewan!
Darren Islar: so far I never went much further then belgium and england if it comes to beer :)
Darren Islar: normally he crashes
Pema Pera: Ewan?
Darren Islar: don't know why
Darren Islar: yes

It was nice to see Ewan again.

Fael Innovia: Hi Ewan :)
Pema Pera: wb Ewan
Darren Islar: sure Ewan
Pema Pera: any time, Ewan!
Darren Islar: I already informed you about this group
Darren Islar: but I do't know if you know that those meetings are recorded
Pema Pera: yes, we met a few days ago
Darren Islar: ok
Darren Islar: so he knows?
Ewan Bonham: Yes, I am aware of the recording
Darren Islar: okay :)
Darren Islar: you met him in a session Pema?
Pema Pera: we were just chatting, Ewan, about soccer and such
Pema Pera: yes, Darren
Darren Islar: ah, okay :)
Ewan Bonham: Soccer as a spiritual discipline?
Pema Pera: perhaps :-)
Darren Islar: :))
Pema Pera: we were actually talking about drinking beer while watching soccer :)
Eos Amaterasu: "it's just a ball", my wife says :-)
Pema Pera: spirits more than spiritual
Darren Islar: heheh
--BELL--
Pema Pera: as opposed to zen: "it's just a cushion" ? :-)
Darren Islar: sometimes we chitchat

Steve brought up the topic of time.

stevenaia Michinaga: Since the photo exhibit some thoughts have popped into my head
stevenaia Michinaga: I've been thinking... a dangerous thing so early in my morning, about time and conciousness and Being, morso about time and why , for so many people looking for so many things in physics, no one looks for "time"
Darren Islar: that is part of the bonding-practice :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it just is accepted as "IS"
Pema Pera: time is the most difficult thing to tackle . . . and people are looking for it, and trying new ideas
stevenaia Michinaga: one of those IS" things
Ewan Bonham: in order for us to experience timelessness, do we have to know the experience of time first?
Pema Pera: in the 20th century a lot of progress was made with the program of "spatializing" time, treating it like a kind of space, part of spacetime
Pema Pera: but in this century the challenge is to go beyond that
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it is experienced, but not defined in a thing
Ewan Bonham: ?
Pema Pera: the question of how time is experienced is a big question indeed -- as a flow? as a force? as something outside us? or inside us? . . . ?
stevenaia Michinaga: do you mean like calling it just anouther dimention Pema, so it ahs a "place"
Darren Islar: time is passing by, so we do have an expercience of it
Ewan Bonham: Yes
Pema Pera: but we are also always in the now, so "passing" is a tricky notion . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: but it passes (things happen) even if we don;t experience it
Pema Pera: we never get past the now :)
Ewan Bonham: i think for me, a lot has to do with my state of mind
Pema Pera: (and yes, Steve)
Ewan Bonham: If i am anxious, time can go on forever
Darren Islar: :) @ pema
Pema Pera: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: conciousness also needs time but is equally hard to define
Ewan Bonham: Five minutes can be like 5 hours
Pema Pera: yes
Darren Islar: but we do have a past, or experience as such
Ewan Bonham: but like today, time passes slowly and peacefully
Pema Pera: do we?
Pema Pera: we think we do, in the present we think that . . . .
Fael Innovia: the past, present and future are all included in the now.

So many questions come up when we start wondering about what time really is . . .

Darren Islar: well I realized that we do not experience time in a clock gradually ticking the minutes away
Ewan Bonham: Past...debateable becaause it must be interpreted from the present looking at it
Pema Pera: yes
Darren Islar: true Pema, but that si not how we mostly experience it
Pema Pera: that's not how we tell ourselves to experience it . . . .
Darren Islar: we tend to act on what we have 'learned'
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: but when we really look at how we actually experience time, we might be surprised
Darren Islar: if I look at my experience, I do experience a past
Darren Islar: though I know as a concept that it is 'now'
Ewan Bonham: But can you really experience a 'past' now?
stevenaia Michinaga: we never experience the past in "REAL time" it;s always summerised or abridged
stevenaia Michinaga: ..subective view
stevenaia Michinaga: *Subjective
Ewan Bonham: And is the 'past' different if you look at it from the perspective of several 'nows'
Darren Islar: in that case the only answer Ewan can be that past doesn't exist
Darren Islar: but it is strange
Ewan Bonham: ㋡
stevenaia Michinaga: what IS an even that is loked at by many people and each of us can see a diffrent thing, yet it only happened once one way
stevenaia Michinaga: *event
Darren Islar: I have been wondering what the difference is between people who are suffering for instance in the concentrationcamps and the ones that are walking the grounds as a free person at the moment
Darren Islar: or what the difference is between someone in the concentration camp and someone standing outside it, just 20 meters away
stevenaia Michinaga: a remarkable human ability Darren
Darren Islar: yes, but the experience is quite different
Darren Islar: and the suffering someone is experiencing in the concentrationcamp is very real
Darren Islar: and inevitable
Darren Islar: it is a question that is on my mind for years now
Darren Islar: time and space: weird 'things' :))
Fael Innovia: meep! :)
Darren Islar: and I only came her to show off with my new skin :))))
Darren Islar: just joking
Fael Innovia smiles 'Looks great.'
Darren Islar: thanks
Pema Pera: :)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: Ewan, may I ask, do you follow a particular kind of meditation practice?

We were all silent for a few minutes, and then Dream dropped in.

Fael Innovia: Hi Dream :)
Pema Pera: Hi Dream!
Darren Islar: hi Dream
Dream Wrexan: hi :-)
Pema Pera: Good to see you again, Dream!
Dream Wrexan: Thanks, Pema
Pema Pera: I enjoyed our discussion a week ago, Drexen, about liberation and such :)
Pema Pera: *Dream I mean
Pema Pera: getting dislexic here :)
Dream Wrexan: yes, I did too, pema
Pema Pera: it's such a big question, whether to try to gain more freedom, and if so, in what way it makes sense to try . . . .
Pema Pera: have you thought more about that in the mean time?
Dream Wrexan: Im afraid not, Pema - it's been a very hectic RL week
Ewan Bonham: more freedom? In what way?
stevenaia Michinaga: "gain freedom?
Pema Pera: RL tends to do that, yes :-) -- for me too it is a relief to just sit here for an hour, quietly :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: as in letting go?
Pema Pera: most forms of inquiry, whether philosophical or spiritual, are aimed at gaining some kind of freedom, I think, Ewan
stevenaia Michinaga: .... time to go play, the day is bright and sunny, see you soon
Pema Pera: bye Steven!
Darren Islar: bye Steve
Dream Wrexan: bye, stevenaia
Ewan Bonham: Bye, Stephan
--BELL--

Dream reminded us of the discussion we had a week ago.

Dream Wrexan: as I remember, we were discussing freedom from the aspect of going into our emotions
Dream Wrexan: becoming one with them
Dream Wrexan: rather than allowing them to take over
Pema Pera: yes!
Ewan Bonham: A bit like in mindfulness?
Dream Wrexan: yes, I think so Ewan
Pema Pera: yes indeed -- we were contracting two ways: stepping back to observe them, and stepping further into them
Pema Pera: interestingly, either way can give a clearer awareness of emotions
Ewan Bonham: i think the only way beyond is through them
Dream Wrexan: and how do we approach that?
Ewan Bonham: Make friends with the emotion
Fael Innovia: maybe those two ways are just one way expressed in two ways?
Ewan Bonham: Allow it to speak to us
Dream Wrexan: as in acceptance, ewan?
Dream Wrexan: Can you say more, Fael?
Ewan Bonham: Yes, accept what it has to give us
Fael Innovia: it depends on how you interpret stepping back and stepping into.
Fael Innovia: it's not something so concrete that it'd be easy to make sure everyone gets them the same way
Fael Innovia: so, one person saying stepping back could actually be what another means by stepping into
Dream Wrexan: sorry, afk (phone)
Fael Innovia: Hi Bleu :)
Pema Pera: hi Bleu! Good to see you again
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Darren Islar: hi Bleu
Darren Islar: I'm already late, need to go

Bleu entered, Darren left, and soon it was time for all of us to leave.

Pema Pera: we were just talking about emotions, Bleu -- whether to step out or in (short summary :-)
Pema Pera: bye Darren!
Fael Innovia: Have fun Darren :)
Darren Islar: bye all :)
Bleu Oleander: bye darren
Bleu Oleander: will read the log .... sounds interesting
Pema Pera: oh, only the last few minutes :)
Pema Pera: we meandered through "time" and other topics
Bleu Oleander: it comes down to emotions?
Bleu Oleander: emotions as driving being?
Pema Pera: we talked about the question of, when caught in an emotion, whether to step back and watch or to step further in
Bleu Oleander: ah
Pema Pera: become one with it, more familiar with it
Bleu Oleander: recognize it
Pema Pera: or watch it intentily to get more famliar with it
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: well, I don't know whether getting sleepy is technically considered an emotion, but it's midnight here, so I think I'll sign off
Fael Innovia: good night Pema :)
Bleu Oleander: nite Pema
Pema Pera: bye everybody!
Eos Amaterasu: 'night.... will also go, bye all!
Bleu Oleander: bye Eos
Fael Innovia: good night ... oh he's gone already