The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.

Archmage Atlantis and oO0Oo (Samud) Resident were in the pavillion. We talked about crises, connecting with other, and filters to reality.

oO0Oo Resident: Hi Arch!, Hi Westor !
Wester Kiranov: hi arch, oO0
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Sam,,, West
Archmage Atlantis: The police came to my rl house yesterday
oO0Oo Resident: @@
Wester Kiranov: what for?
oO0Oo Resident: Nothing too dramatic hope Arch..
Archmage Atlantis: I made a mistake........my friends were tired of being there for me.......I called 911
Archmage Atlantis: I was thinking there would be a social service that I could speak with
Archmage Atlantis: But the way the system here works
Archmage Atlantis: is that that the assumption of being dangerous trumphs the assumption of physical or mental difficulty
oO0Oo Resident: Were you able to eventually connect with the help you needed Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Archmage Atlantis: I connected with the help I needed
Archmage Atlantis: Faith and Belief
Archmage Atlantis: that things are still getting better
Archmage Atlantis: I took a taxi
Archmage Atlantis: the driver was helping a solider who came back from Iraq
Archmage Atlantis: It reminded me of my Dad
Archmage Atlantis: Who was a sargeant in the WW@ war
Archmage Atlantis: Invasion of Normandy
Archmage Atlantis: He was never able to reconcile what he had to do
oO0Oo Resident: you took a taxi, in order to get home Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Archmage Atlantis: My friends are tired of my vision of this reality
Archmage Atlantis: They prefer to look through rose colored glasses
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: Your friendmight think you look through black glasses.
Wester Kiranov: they might even wonder how they can reach you.
Archmage Atlantis: Every fiber of my being says "run".........not safe
Archmage Atlantis: like when I was a kid
Archmage Atlantis: Odd how getting old brings back the difficulties of being a young person who does not fit in
Archmage Atlantis: Anyway, the guy the taxi driver was trying to help
Archmage Atlantis: was ordered
Archmage Atlantis: to kill a group of Iraqis
Archmage Atlantis: some of them were children
Archmage Atlantis: He followed orders
Archmage Atlantis: but was broken in his soul
oO0Oo Resident: Can be hard to encounter extreme situations when one is oneself going through a crisis
Archmage Atlantis: And yes, Wester......some glasses are black......to see what is real
Wester Kiranov: any kind of gasses make you see a different part of reality. Sometimes it is hard to reconcile all the differences.
Archmage Atlantis: Agree, Wester
Wester Kiranov: but i'm not sure any color glasses give more reality than others
Archmage Atlantis: Agree with that also, Wester
Archmage Atlantis: After all
Archmage Atlantis: we are here in a pavilion that most ppl
Archmage Atlantis: would say is just an illusion
Wester Kiranov: It can be pretty hard to acknowledge what you see as real, and at the same time as just a tiny part of reality.
Wester Kiranov: It is so much easier to say "what I see is real, and what you see is different, so you must be wrong"
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: If there is something about me I would wish to have remembered it is this .......He did not choose the easy pth
Archmage Atlantis: *path
Wester Kiranov: But to see you, and the soldier, and your friends with the rose-tinted glasses, and try to reconcile it, that is a challenge. but worth it
Archmage Atlantis: That and he couldn't type :)
Wester Kiranov: :)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
oO0Oo Resident: how might one go about reconciling such wester? Through trying on ideas of others' points of view or?
Archmage Atlantis: gotta go.....Blessings and Namaste
Wester Kiranov: see you arch. good to have talked to you
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Arch
Wester Kiranov: I think that would be a good starting point o0
Wester Kiranov: Try to really see hwere those ideas come from
Wester Kiranov: try to be open to other points of view without losing sight of your own
oO0Oo Resident: that is challenging
Wester Kiranov: and try not to get lost too much in factual content
oO0Oo Resident: can you say more about that last point please?
Wester Kiranov: because the views are below that, and tey will determine a lot of what facts we can see and accept
Wester Kiranov: it is absurdly easy to get lost in a "Is so"/"Is not" argument
Wester Kiranov: but mentioning facts is always used to argue some point
Wester Kiranov: and below that point is a world view
oO0Oo Resident: What we construct as facts, or the facts we choose to draw out.. are based on a personal bias of how we understand our world?
Wester Kiranov: I think so, yes. Largely but not completely
--BELL--
oO0Oo Resident: So, in the analysis for reconciliation, willingness to seek the views we hold? And work with those layers? Or layers further ?
Wester Kiranov: Yes, I think that would be very helpful
Wester Kiranov: And respect our differences, also in the style of talking
Wester Kiranov: I talk to you differently than I do to Arch, because I can see different interests, different filters to "reality"
oO0Oo Resident: we are in a sense.. different people, with different people?
Wester Kiranov: yes, we find different parts of ourselves to connect with different people
Wester Kiranov: and with some people you feel you can show a lot, and let yourself be touched, and with other people you feel you have to hide more, or at least now show as much
Wester Kiranov: and that makes you feel you are "more yourself" with the former kind
Wester Kiranov: Deborah Tannen gave this example of a girl who goes to live on her own for the first time, and to her friends she will tell all examples of how hard it is, and to her mother she will tell all examples of how easy it is
Wester Kiranov: And both pictures are equally true, and quite irreconcilable
oO0Oo Resident: that rings true.. and wonder if the parts add up to any kind of real whole, the kind of integrated whole that could be ideally open fully with another.. ideally
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: I think the whole is too big to really talk about, we always have to point at a part of it, and maybe see how the whole reflects in that part
oO0Oo Resident: this is really interesting
oO0Oo Resident: the way that you describe things, I find very helpful, but I have to work at understanding. I just sense that you have such good discernments, and it makes me want to understand more and more.
Wester Kiranov: thank you *blushes*
Wester Kiranov: I think that if we get in touch with the things that really interest us, the things that make us tick, we can show a bit of the bigness and amazingness of all of being
Wester Kiranov: did the lights in the pool change colors like that before? I only just noticed
oO0Oo Resident: These parts of what we think of as our self in any given instance, that resonate with others styles and views.. they perhaps just tendencies which do not really comprise any self at all, but are our only reference points. The bigness.. is reletive to the scope of these reference points? But in an absolute sense, maybe no real scale? And what about the amazing quality? Is that likehmm transcendence of a kind, or realisation?
oO0Oo Resident: RE: the lights.. yes i think have always cycled through colours
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: I personally feel the conversation s about whether there really is a self are not that interesting. A naive denial of the self is a bad as a naive reification. I don't think we need to do more than let go of the self as a coherent whole, and then we can see what (and possibly if) it "really" is
Wester Kiranov: sorry, RL is calling. It was very nice talking to you
oO0Oo Resident: read that about six times
oO0Oo Resident: oh OK Wester
oO0Oo Resident: gosh thanks a lot
Wester Kiranov: namaste
oO0Oo Resident: namste
oO0Oo Resident: Wow.. really appreciate where this talk lead me... really inspiring somehow.