The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Alf Kelberry, Bleu Oleander, Storm Nordwind, Xirana Oximoxi, Yaku Lethecus and myself.

Music Streaming:

Alfred Kelberry: mr zen :)
Zen Arado: Hi Alf:)
Alfred Kelberry: where did mr storm go?
Zen Arado: haven't seen him today
Zen Arado: he's a busy man
Alfred Kelberry: he's usually here at 7 am
Alfred Kelberry: we're all busy men :)
Zen Arado: he'sbeen here lately at this time
Zen Arado: but not today
Alfred Kelberry: how are you today?
Zen Arado: I'm only as busy as I want to be :)
Zen Arado: fine TY
Zen Arado: I could sit and meditate all ady if I wanted to
Alfred Kelberry: setting up the voice?
Zen Arado: haven't managed to yet
Alfred Kelberry: then you'd be busy meditating :)
Zen Arado: ha meditation is a rest from busyness
Zen Arado: I can get voice into stream
Alfred Kelberry: um, well... yes :)
Zen Arado: and plays music into stream from computer
Alfred Kelberry: ah, cool
Zen Arado: but not both at the same time
Alfred Kelberry: which stream is it? on your plot?
Zen Arado: can be anywhere
Zen Arado: just need someone to put URL of stream into sound in land details
Alfred Kelberry: mr storm? :)
Zen Arado: if I played into it you could listen to stream on web too
Zen Arado: yes for here
Zen Arado: http://shoutcast.tekstuff.net:7950
Alfred Kelberry: awesome! time to play your guitar for real :)
Zen Arado: that's the URL
Zen Arado: nah
Zen Arado: I'm not good enough
Zen Arado: not a great singer either
Zen Arado: it's easy, you just rent a stream
Alfred Kelberry: the stream is down
Zen Arado: and put details into player
Zen Arado: yes not playing into it atm
Zen Arado: have to set it upeach time for winamp
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Alfred Kelberry: why?
Zen Arado: was trying Virtual DJ

Zen Arado: Hi Storm :)
Storm Nordwind whispers Hi
Alfred Kelberry: mr storm
Zen Arado: Winamp doesn't remember the details
Alfred Kelberry: mr zen was talking about audio streams on sl
Zen Arado: have to fill in each time
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... particle mania...
Zen Arado: that right Storm?
Alfred Kelberry: what details?
Alfred Kelberry: you simply paste an url
Zen Arado: Virtual DJ does remember but have to pay for it
Zen Arado: no you have to put a password etc in
Storm Nordwind does not know what is being talked about here. But does use Winamp and SHoutcast.
Zen Arado: local host and set MP3 and bit rate
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that
Alfred Kelberry: i use icecast for it
Zen Arado: I got Virtual DJ to work well but I think it cuts you off after 10 mins
Alfred Kelberry: winamp for playing
Zen Arado: unless you take subscription
Zen Arado: haven't tried Icecast
Zen Arado: have to pay for it?
Alfred Kelberry: open source :)
Alfred Kelberry: have to fiddle with the configs :)
Zen Arado: must try
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: it's fun doing that
Zen Arado: don'treally know what I am doing though :)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: exploration
Alfred Kelberry: fun stuff
Zen Arado: might need a little audio mixer
Alfred Kelberry: i wouldn't do it in a cockpit of a flying plane, but otherwise, it's cool :)
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: I get winamp to work quite reliably

Flying:

Alfred Kelberry: mr storm strikes me as a man who could pilot an airplane
Zen Arado: yeh he had practice ;)
Storm Nordwind: Pilots licenses do that for you
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: ok, so not only the flying carpets :)
Zen Arado: did you have to take one to design training software Storm?
Zen Arado: a pilots licence I mean
Storm Nordwind: No. But it made me for attractive for getting contract renewals.
Storm Nordwind: *more attractive
Zen Arado: yeh
Alfred Kelberry: cool
Zen Arado: strikes me you would need knowledge of flying for that
Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to try
Storm Nordwind: Not necessarily. But it helps.
Zen Arado: if you had to design software to simulate engine failure
Storm Nordwind: I recommend not doing it
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: why?
Storm Nordwind: It's addictive
Alfred Kelberry: oh
Storm Nordwind: and expensive
Storm Nordwind: You get to know your bank manager rather well
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: yeh lots of lessons and flying hours needed
Alfred Kelberry: how much is for one hour?
Storm Nordwind: In the UK in 1989 it was GBP 80 an hour
Zen Arado: wow
Alfred Kelberry: um, a lot, i guess
Alfred Kelberry: what's the inflation ratio? :)
Zen Arado: I always fancied gliding
Storm Nordwind: 2.5 maybe
Alfred Kelberry: oh
Alfred Kelberry: a lot :)
Storm Nordwind: Tried gliding too
Zen Arado: more peaceful
Alfred Kelberry: flying is better?
Storm Nordwind: Gliding is more stressful
Zen Arado: kind of like difference between power boat and sailing
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, danger of facepalming?
Zen Arado: it is?
Zen Arado: facepalming?
Storm Nordwind: Sure it is. Will you find enough lift to get back? Or make it to that field? Will the farmer be friendly? Will I damage his crop? Or my glider?
Alfred Kelberry: oh, monkey brain :)
Storm Nordwind: No. Survival.
Zen Arado: you have to go close to hills to find thermals?
Storm Nordwind: No. You stay away from hills unless you're ridge soaring
Alfred Kelberry: *imagines a farmer with a pitchfork chasing mr storm around the cornfield*
Zen Arado: wonder how you would get glider back to airfield

Storm Nordwind: With the expense of a lot of effort. You take the wings off, put it all on a trailer, and tow it back to the airfield.
Zen Arado: I See
Alfred Kelberry: mr yaku :)
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone

Viewer Issues:

Yakuzza Lethecus: got viewer issues somehow
Yakuzza Lethecus: had to fall back to phoenix
Alfred Kelberry: from?
Zen Arado: I'm doing ok with Firestorm
Storm Nordwind: By the way Alfred, are the particles your doing? And when can we turn them off? (particles were my fault - I still was wearing from previous night but forgot)
Alfred Kelberry: no particles here
Alfred Kelberry: you mean those on the south?
Storm Nordwind: They are all around the pavilion.
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Alfred Kelberry: oh, true
Storm Nordwind: Sign - I guess that means I have to hunt for the generator and return it
Storm Nordwind: *Sigh
Alfred Kelberry: hunt the particle and find the owner :)
Zen Arado: I found how to put an AO into Firestorm
Zen Arado: without using a hud
Storm Nordwind: Yes I used that for a while. Not anymore
Alfred Kelberry: not using ao's
Zen Arado: handy cuz mine kept disappearing back into inventory
Alfred Kelberry: i actually prefer the original sl walk :)
Zen Arado: why not Storm?
Storm Nordwind: Because my animations were non-copy. That meant I couldn't use them outside Firestorm
Zen Arado: ah yes
Storm Nordwind: And v1 is still the most reliable.
Alfred Kelberry: note: on old computers :)
Storm Nordwind: On any computer. Check the stats.
Zen Arado: I find all of them reliable
Alfred Kelberry: what stats?
Storm Nordwind: LL published reliability stats
Alfred Kelberry: ah
Alfred Kelberry: never seen those
Storm Nordwind: v1 still comes top
Zen Arado: but some new things don't work on V 1 now?
Alfred Kelberry: i wonder how they calculate it
Storm Nordwind: Sure. But that's OK
Alfred Kelberry: v1 does way less than v3 for example
Storm Nordwind: less to go wrong.
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i guess that´s right :P

Innovation vs conservatism:

Zen Arado: I like new innovations though
Zen Arado: that's fun for me
Yakuzza Lethecus: but never had issues with previous firestorm versions, even the felt performance wasn´t bad either
Zen Arado: trying new things
Zen Arado: funny how people complain every time they change Facebook layout
Zen Arado: they always want to keep old layout
Zen Arado: is it a kind of conservatism?
Storm Nordwind notices that the evil LL people have recently removed v1 from the reliability listings, presumably because it keeps making everything else look bad.
Zen Arado: resistance to change?
Alfred Kelberry: safe environment and attachment
Zen Arado: but don't new viewers have bugs that have to be sorted?
Zen Arado: then they become reliable too?
Storm Nordwind: It's not necessarily resistance to change. When a product does what you want and you invest a lot of time in learning it and use it professionally, it's a waste of your productivity to have to learn something new. Time is too precious when advantage is doubtful.
Zen Arado: manufacturers of computer equipment don't seem to believe that
Yakuzza Lethecus: i recently stumbled upon a techi term that i didn´t know, which might even be partially true with v3 ,,bloatware" the sl viewer often just has too many features and is propably a bit overloaded
Zen Arado: innovation seems to drive the market
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bleu
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
Storm Nordwind: And innovators get it wrong too. They go out of business when they innovate as a mantra and don't pay attention to what their customers want.
Zen Arado: we're very 'techie' today
Zen Arado: yes
Alfred Kelberry: yaku, most big software is. take ms word or excel for example. 20/80 rule applies here as well.
Alfred Kelberry: ms bleu :)

Bleu Oleander: :)
Alfred Kelberry: good pause
Zen Arado: I find MS Word 2010 has too many features
Zen Arado: Word 97 does all I need really
Alfred Kelberry: i shifted from a tech debate to creativity of bleu :)
Zen Arado: ha ok
Alfred Kelberry: zen, for me that would be plain text :)
Bleu Oleander: boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: ms blue, how is your day?
Zen Arado: but you waste time trying to figure new software out
Bleu Oleander: so far so good boxy, you?
Zen Arado: and unneecessary features
Alfred Kelberry: zen, a perspective. either waste or play :)
Zen Arado: oh yes
Zen Arado: all perspective
Alfred Kelberry: i'm good. been enjoying the company of these 3 gentlemen.
Storm Nordwind looks around
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: must try to play with Word
Zen Arado: but usually it is for serious business
Yakuzza Lethecus: and he´s enlightening me about the pareto principle :)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: ms xiri :)
Zen Arado: forget what that is
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey xirana
Zen Arado: Hi Xirana :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Xirana
Yakuzza Lethecus: the 80:20 rule that boxy just mentioned
Xirana Oximoxi: hi everuone:)
Zen Arado: how does it work?
Yakuzza Lethecus: that 80precent of features come from like 20 percent of the users
Yakuzza Lethecus: The Pareto principle (also known as the 80–20 rule, the law of the vital few, and the principle of factor sparsity) states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.[1][2]
Yakuzza Lethecus: *wikipedia
Alfred Kelberry: in essence, 20% of useful and 80% of junk
Zen Arado: there are peole who buy new tech stuff immediately
Zen Arado: others wait a while
Alfred Kelberry: they're called apple fans
Zen Arado: ha ha
Yakuzza Lethecus: haha :)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Zen Arado: was waiting for Apple to surface
Zen Arado: new Ipad not so venerated as previous versions
Alfred Kelberry: i recall when i was resisting a camera on my phone. i had a much superior canon camera for that. then i came to appreciate and enjoy it.
Zen Arado: but still great gadget
Zen Arado: must be a balance somewhere
Zen Arado: abiut buying new tech stuff
Alfred Kelberry: money is a good balance :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: gosh, only for the ppl who got to work for a living :P
Zen Arado: well I'm not wealthy but I don't spend on cars or travel
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Xirana Oximoxi: yes:))
Zen Arado: so I can afford to have good tech stuff
Zen Arado: tech stuff only cost hundreds
Zen Arado: cars cost thousands
Zen Arado: or travel
Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i was lately thinking in a way that pple forces ppl to less freedom but more organization and what´s actually really needed
Bleu Oleander drives an old truck so I can have my Apples :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, it's rather cheap now. except for the new and shiny devices where you pay an extra bonus to be that cool guy.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i agree, my audi will turn 20 this year
Alfred Kelberry: oh! forgot about your audi, yaku :)
Zen Arado: so how long to keep a cellphone?
Alfred Kelberry: it works! and it's awesome :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i just bought a samsung cellphone since dislike apple´s warrenty and pricing policy
Zen Arado: also tempted to change to Android
Storm Nordwind: My Subaru is 16 years old. Still better than many more modern cars in the cold.
Alfred Kelberry: yaku, good for you. samsung is the new apple.
Alfred Kelberry: cheaper too
Zen Arado: Samsung nexus
Storm Nordwind doesn't need fancy phones anymore
Zen Arado: I don't need either
Zen Arado: but like
Zen Arado: :)
Storm Nordwind: And I eschew anything with a touchscreen
Alfred Kelberry: i can't imagine mr storm without a samsung nexus in his hand

Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i had to get one to finally use the "pab app"
Alfred Kelberry: mr riddle wrote it
Zen Arado: pab app?
Alfred Kelberry: android app
Zen Arado: what does it do?
Alfred Kelberry: counts the bell
Zen Arado: ah ok
Yakuzza Lethecus: and informs about the group
Zen Arado: planty of timers out there though
Zen Arado: ah ok
Alfred Kelberry: ms xiri, how is your day? :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.androidpit.com/en/android...d.pab/PaB-Gong
Zen Arado: ty Yaku
Zen Arado: only have iPhone though
Alfred Kelberry: nice picture there
Alfred Kelberry: i can recognize yaku and riddle
Alfred Kelberry: stev
Alfred Kelberry: woly
Alfred Kelberry: that's it
Xirana Oximoxi: wow an special app forPaB !!! I will have to buy a new phone:)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: yes, you must!
Alfred Kelberry: otherwise you won't be as cool as we are
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Zen Arado: not an iPhone though
Xirana Oximoxi: this one is so fun...my sister has it http://www.androidpit.com/en/android...king-Tom-Cat-2
Zen Arado: Android only
Xirana Oximoxi: haha... ok.. I want to be as cool as all of you!! :)
Storm Nordwind: Remind me when uncool is the new cool.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: maybe it always is
Bleu Oleander: :)
Alfred Kelberry: xiri, there's a rule on my phone - no games :)
Zen Arado: yeh I dson't like games
Zen Arado: only Svrabble
Zen Arado: Scrabble
Zen Arado: that;s why I lose :)
Xirana Oximoxi: ok:)... just work...:) .. she uses it to make some children laugh :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: xiri, not work, another kind of fun
Xirana Oximoxi: (in a hospital)
Zen Arado: I download cool apps then never use them
Alfred Kelberry: i.e. i have 2 very cool camera apps
Bleu Oleander: I like my night sky app
Alfred Kelberry: yes, that too
Xirana Oximoxi: what kind of fun, boxy?? if it's ok to ask?
Zen Arado: I find camera difficult to use on iPhone
Zen Arado: my left hand too weak
Alfred Kelberry: camera apps, gps tracker, irc, barcode reader, dictionary, google reader
Bleu Oleander: my camera works great on the iPhone
Zen Arado: need a better button
Xirana Oximoxi: ahh yes... a lot of interesting tools:)
Zen Arado: camera is good just using it
Alfred Kelberry: yes, iphone has a good one
Yakuzza Lethecus: ebook reader, skype
Zen Arado: Kindle
Zen Arado: I use Dragon voice typing for texts
Zen Arado: works well
Alfred Kelberry: neat
Alfred Kelberry: i suppose it's getting better after the new installation?
Zen Arado: thinking about what I 'need' hmm
Alfred Kelberry: a dslr camera? :)
Zen Arado: seemed good from getgo

What do we actually need?

Bleu Oleander: how do we determine what we "need"?
Zen Arado: yeh
Bleu Oleander: are we incharge of our needs?
Zen Arado: don't nedd computer either
Zen Arado: not really I think
Zen Arado: driven by urges and desires

Bleu Oleander: marketing?
Xirana Oximoxi: I don't know Bleu... but I am sure that I don't need an iphone... but maybe, if I was used to it, I could not live without... or at least I would feel like I needed it...
Zen Arado: 'what's one more cookie in the grand scheme of things?' somebody said
Zen Arado: maybe we just are driven and then rationalise choices
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t think i need a smartphone, but i think i also became pretty dependend on the ,,internet" so somekind of smart device big pc or small pocket computer is needed for my now
Alfred Kelberry: bleu, for me, it's how useful is the item i'm considering buying in a long term
Storm Nordwind: I don't need a smartphone. So I don't have one.
Alfred Kelberry: marketing dictates what kind of item you're going to buy
Zen Arado: my iPhone was so useful when I had to go in hospital couple of years ago
Bleu Oleander: also exposes you to different items .. items you didn't even know about
Zen Arado: we follow the herd in our choices too
Alfred Kelberry: mostly we follow the ads
Storm Nordwind: if you know what you need to accomplish, it's fairly easy to see what helps that and what distracts from it.
Zen Arado: if all our friends have smartphones they influence us that way
Xirana Oximoxi: I think the most important is to evaluate if the new tools bring positive possibilities to you
Zen Arado: yeh but how much is rational?
Zen Arado: choices are emotional too
Alfred Kelberry: if you have 2 choices: item made by a and b and you never heard of a, you'll opt for b
Alfred Kelberry: even if the b is superior
Alfred Kelberry: er, the other way :)
Zen Arado: you don't know until you buy how useful something can be
Storm Nordwind: If a has problems, and b helps you achieve what you need to achieve, you'd research b
Alfred Kelberry: storm, yes, if you're mr storm :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: he he
Xirana Oximoxi: :))
Alfred Kelberry: but most people aren't that particular
Zen Arado: want it and I want it now !
Alfred Kelberry: in many cases we buy an image, not a product
Zen Arado: :)
Alfred Kelberry: when you buy apple - you see yourself as creative
Zen Arado: yeh a lifestyle dream
Alfred Kelberry: when you buy prius - you care for nature
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Zen Arado: disppointed when beautiful girl doesn't appear with new car :)
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Xirana Oximoxi: haha
Yakuzza Lethecus: i never saw myself as creative when i bought my ipod, but it was simply the device that fit my interests most and back then all ,,the apps i was interested in" wheren´t on android but are availible now
Zen Arado: yes sgree Yaku
Zen Arado: Android in 'in' now
Zen Arado: Android is cool
Zen Arado: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: it was even fancy back then, but i think there is more paying cusomers on apple
Yakuzza Lethecus: more ppl actually buying bigger apps
Zen Arado: same for Windows software
Zen Arado: has to fit more varied hardware
Xirana Oximoxi: i must go now... have a nice day and see you soon!! :-)
Zen Arado: yes me too
Zen Arado: thanks for coming everyone
Bleu Oleander: me three :)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye :)
Bleu Oleander: bye everyone :)
Zen Arado: byee