2013.01.06 07:00 - What are values?

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Bleu Oleander: hiya Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Morning :)
Bleu Oleander: how was your sl week?
Catrinamonblue Resident: good :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi adoro ... come join us :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: have you been here before adoro?
adoro Rhapsody: hi
Bleu Oleander: hiya :)
adoro Rhapsody: yes maybe a year ago

--BELL--
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hello Adoro gsty again
adoro Rhapsody: but yesterday i was here back
Catrinamonblue Resident: gtsy*
adoro Rhapsody: tnhx
Bleu Oleander: so you know that we record our conversations ... it's ok with you?
adoro Rhapsody: sure
adoro Rhapsody: i like it
Bleu Oleander: nice to have you back :)
Bleu Oleander: what are your interests in sl?
adoro Rhapsody: the exange of ideas
adoro Rhapsody: in a respectful way
adoro Rhapsody: like discussions here
Bleu Oleander: ah nice
adoro Rhapsody: a bit philisophical
adoro Rhapsody: philosophical
adoro Rhapsody: talk items from different points of view
adoro Rhapsody: i like that
Bleu Oleander: me too
adoro Rhapsody: i know
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
adoro Rhapsody: u was here some years ago too
Bleu Oleander: do you know about our 90 second breaks?
adoro Rhapsody: sure
adoro Rhapsody: and its still going on
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: I will be here almost 3 yrs now :)
adoro Rhapsody: i saw some artworks of you Blue
Bleu Oleander: oh yes
Bleu Oleander: we have a show up now
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Bleu Oleander: in the PaB Dome
adoro Rhapsody: nice
adoro Rhapsody: i walked around yesterday
Bleu Oleander: we have a special session today at noon slt
Bleu Oleander: to talk about it
Bleu Oleander: you're welcome to come
adoro Rhapsody: oh
adoro Rhapsody: what time ?
Bleu Oleander: noon slt
Bleu Oleander: 12pm
adoro Rhapsody: because here its afternoon already
adoro Rhapsody: i am in Holland
Bleu Oleander: where are you?
adoro Rhapsody: europe
Bleu Oleander: :)
adoro Rhapsody: and its here 16.05
adoro Rhapsody: afternoon
adoro Rhapsody: tea time
Bleu Oleander: so when it's noon in sl what time is it there?
adoro Rhapsody: over 5 hours or so ?
Bleu Oleander: late evening?
adoro Rhapsody: now is 7.06 am here in sl
adoro Rhapsody: or over 17 hours ?
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zon
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon
Zon Kwan: heya
adoro Rhapsody: hi zon
Bleu Oleander: so the session is 5 hours from now adoro
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: maybe i can watch
Bleu Oleander: sure
Zon Kwan: what session ?
adoro Rhapsody: when i have time here
Bleu Oleander: special session on Art of Being Clarity
adoro Rhapsody: i mean
Zon Kwan: today ?
Bleu Oleander: today at noon slt
Zon Kwan: cool
Bleu Oleander: have you seen the art in the dome Zon?
Bleu Oleander: lots of great pieces
Zon Kwan: dont think so
Zon Kwan: is it here or in the dome ?
Bleu Oleander: some of the artists will be there today
adoro Rhapsody: its just here in the neighberhood
Bleu Oleander: in the dome
Bleu Oleander: yes in the Play as Being Village
Bleu Oleander: several times a year we have a conversation using art
Bleu Oleander: to express our ideas
Bleu Oleander: we also get together to learn how to build
adoro Rhapsody: i have been to some sessions
adoro Rhapsody: about art
Bleu Oleander: ah great
adoro Rhapsody: with Zen Arado
adoro Rhapsody: and others
Bleu Oleander: Zen is very talented
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Bleu Oleander: wonderful rl artist
adoro Rhapsody: i saw art of him in the micro molecule art lab
adoro Rhapsody: museum
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: me too
Bleu Oleander: nice
Bleu Oleander: do any of you make sl art?
adoro Rhapsody: when i flew with the balloon yesrtday
adoro Rhapsody: no
Catrinamonblue Resident: no
adoro Rhapsody: i dont make anything
adoro Rhapsody: in sl
Bleu Oleander: :)
adoro Rhapsody: i just watch
Bleu Oleander: I like to create things in sl
Bleu Oleander: build structures
Bleu Oleander: design textures
Bleu Oleander: it's fun
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm just learning in Sun's classes and am having fun with it
adoro Rhapsody: i admire creators like Storm nordwind
Bleu Oleander: Sun is a good teacher
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: I learned something last week!
adoro Rhapsody: oh
Bleu Oleander: even after 4 years i'm still learning
Bleu Oleander: yes Storm is also a great teacher
adoro Rhapsody: never too old for learning
Bleu Oleander: :)

--BELL--
adoro Rhapsody: how old are we now ?
adoro Rhapsody: i am 57
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza
Catrinamonblue Resident: Morning Eliza :)
adoro Rhapsody: afternoon eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi everyone (sorry to land over you Catrina)
Catrinamonblue Resident: that's ok :)
Bleu Oleander: I will be 4 in sl years :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
adoro Rhapsody: me too
Zon Kwan: hi eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: wow Bleu we are just a few days from one another re SL entry
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: we all grew up together in sl hehe
Eliza Madrigal smiles
adoro Rhapsody: wow
Bleu Oleander: we should have a session comparing why we are still here, what have we learned ... etc.
Eliza Madrigal: would enjoy that
adoro Rhapsody: me too
Zon Kwan: why are we here...hm
adoro Rhapsody: and why are we still ?
adoro Rhapsody: or still here ?
Zon Kwan: lol
adoro Rhapsody: sound of silence i mean
Eliza Madrigal: it is sort of funny that we ask that existential question without questioning why we ask it really... as though it is just so obvious to ask
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Zon Kwan: obviously we get something form this
Bleu Oleander: seems natural tendency to ask "why"
Eliza Madrigal: it does
Bleu Oleander: hard to accept "because"
adoro Rhapsody: and "how"comes later
Eliza Madrigal: :)
adoro Rhapsody: i am here because i have some spare time
Bleu Oleander: "how" seems like a question I can make some progress with
Eliza Madrigal: why is connected to how we do whatever we do I guess
Bleu Oleander: spare time ... another interesting concept
adoro Rhapsody: nothingness
Eliza Madrigal: time you keep in the trunk of your car
adoro Rhapsody: is space for new changes
Bleu Oleander: ha!
adoro Rhapsody: is it possible to reuse time ?
Bleu Oleander: hmmm
Bleu Oleander: once it passes it passes?
Eliza Madrigal: we recycle all the time... making memories into something new
Bleu Oleander: can reflect on used time
adoro Rhapsody: when we save time with computers
adoro Rhapsody: we have spare time we can use for other things
Bleu Oleander: memories get saves as new every time we remember them
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Eliza Madrigal: memory 2.0
Bleu Oleander: :)
adoro Rhapsody: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: this is related to something I was pondering yesterday... the idea of having priorities
adoro Rhapsody: i like the sum going down here
adoro Rhapsody: sun
Bleu Oleander: priorities ... say more
Eliza Madrigal: most organizational books and self help schemes try to get a person to concentrate on the core why... the main priority of their life
Catrinamonblue Resident: listens
Arisia Vita: 's current display-name is "Ari".
Arisia Vita: greetings all...
Bleu Oleander: hi Ari :)
Zon Kwan: hi ari
Eliza Madrigal: Greetings Ari :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Ari
Eliza Madrigal: for me, thinking that way is a lie (re one main priority)
adoro Rhapsody: hi ari
Zon Kwan: good point..to find proporities
Bleu Oleander: so many priorities?
Zon Kwan: otherwise time may be wasted
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't true to say that "friends" are more important, or creative work, or work work, etc
Catrinamonblue Resident: but to have a dream a goal something to work towards helps to give focus to everyday life
adoro Rhapsody: even if that point on horizons slips away when u near it
Bleu Oleander: so many important ideas ... depends on the context?
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Catrinamonblue Resident: the goal is a focus but the journey is the joy
adoro Rhapsody: well stated
Zon Kwan: yes but

--BELL--
adoro Rhapsody: thnx
Zon Kwan: with a goal the journey could be more interesting than just wandering around
Catrinamonblue Resident: that is what I think too
Bleu Oleander: sometimes wandering around leads to fun surprises
Bleu Oleander: I used to love to wander around NYC
Catrinamonblue Resident: so does any journey focused or not
Bleu Oleander: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: you never know what is around the corner
adoro Rhapsody: and also some unpleasant surprises
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: that's life
adoro Rhapsody: when the last bus is gone
adoro Rhapsody: or metro
Catrinamonblue Resident: you can't have to good without the bad
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: its always a balance
Eliza Madrigal: it is just that everything contains everything else... so when working on one thing all the others matter
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: well..if i play football and my goal is to win the game. i enjoy it more than just kicking the ball
adoro Rhapsody: thats not for everybody
adoro Rhapsody: some dont like competition
Eliza Madrigal: if you don't have a goal I guess those that do don't let you in the game
Bleu Oleander: some structure helps in different contexts
Zon Kwan: that was not my point
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Bleu Oleander: :) Eliza
Zon Kwan: but that goal amd walking are two sides of the being
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: many ways to be
Catrinamonblue Resident: many journeys to take
adoro Rhapsody: even SL is a way to be away from rl
Bleu Oleander: all of them different ... so fun to compare
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: understand Zon... it is a bit like having spiritual disciplines yet ultimately no path
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Zon Kwan: what is the difference between values and priorities ?
Eliza Madrigal: hm, maybe not much
Zon Kwan: one must makes ones own path anyway
adoro Rhapsody: priorities is more political and values are more economic ? maybe

Bleu Oleander: what are values?

Zon Kwan: what is important to oneself
Zon Kwan: that is a value
adoro Rhapsody: or what is important for other ppl
Zon Kwan: one must decide ones own values
Eliza Madrigal: where they intersect is interesting to me
Bleu Oleander: are values individual or cultural?
Zon Kwan: both
adoro Rhapsody: yes but it can be own value to give priority for other ppl values
Catrinamonblue Resident: priorities - list of things to be accomplished Values - traits desirable in oneself (honesty)
adoro Rhapsody: but i see the danger now
Zon Kwan: but if one is nor aware one tends automatically adopt cultural values
adoro Rhapsody: wow
adoro Rhapsody: well stated zon
Eliza Madrigal nods, or automatically be contrary to them in reactiveness
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: to some extent do we have a choice in the values we grow up with?
adoro Rhapsody: so maybe culture made a part of our priorities
Zon Kwan: so ones values should dictate ones priorities ?
Bleu Oleander: how big an influence is culture?
adoro Rhapsody: can be very big
adoro Rhapsody: in youth
Bleu Oleander: I think it is
adoro Rhapsody: i was educated Roman catholic
Eliza Madrigal: me too... even more by what we don't notice than what we do
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zon Kwan: it is automatic if we dont take responsibility of our own thinking
adoro Rhapsody: it made much of my values
Bleu Oleander: "our own thinking" ... to what extent is that influenced by culture too?
adoro Rhapsody: now i see other values
Mellie McMinnar: 's current display-name is "Mellie".
adoro Rhapsody: hi mellie
Bleu Oleander: it's interesting to think about
Mellie McMinnar: Hello :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Mellie
Bleu Oleander: we're talking about values
Bleu Oleander: and culture
Bleu Oleander: and priorities
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mellie
Mellie McMinnar: values in general?
Zon Kwan: i think the main point is to be responsible for the values one adopts, to be aware and question them
Bleu Oleander: individual vs cultural

--BELL--
Mellie McMinnar: I think, as long as you don't hurt others, do whatever makes your life better... screw society if they want to stop you doing that
Bleu Oleander: question and re-evaluate ... generally a good thing :)
Bleu Oleander: societies might fall apart if everyone did that?
Eliza Madrigal: have you ever driven home and not remembered doing so? it was just so engrained
Bleu Oleander: to what extent does one "own" ones life and can ignore others?
Mellie McMinnar: well, maybe society isn't such an important thing then
Bleu Oleander: society is how we mange so many people getting along together though?
adoro Rhapsody: you are the group your in
Eliza Madrigal: very little Bleu - even in romanticized stories of people who go it alone, it is often just ot acknowledging those behind the scenes
Eliza Madrigal: *not
Bleu Oleander: "no self made people" ??
adoro Rhapsody: autodidact
Eliza Madrigal: some do have great vision
Mellie McMinnar: people get along naturally.... always... what we call society is a bunch of rules which cause hate
Zon Kwan: one should choose the group one is in
Zon Kwan: not let the group choose ones values
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: thnx Zon
Mellie McMinnar: to be in a group, sure..... that is what creates "outsiders"
Eliza Madrigal: ah ah ah ah stayin alive staying alive... :)
Bleu Oleander: I don't think so Mellie ... some rules are better than others perhaps
Zon Kwan: lol
Eliza Madrigal giggles
adoro Rhapsody: lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
adoro Rhapsody: do we have a group here ?
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: a karrass or grandfaloon
Mellie McMinnar: why do people need rules for behavior at all?
Bleu Oleander: driving for one :)
Zon Kwan: to cooperate
adoro Rhapsody: to share love
adoro Rhapsody: and ideas
Eliza Madrigal: teaching tools
adoro Rhapsody: multi visions
Bleu Oleander: structure encourages creativity
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mellie McMinnar: traffic, sure.... but I meant general behavior.... like saying "i am sorry" after you sneezed
adoro Rhapsody: or makes creativity dead
Zon Kwan: to make living together harmonious
Eliza Madrigal: true Mellie, those are the things to revisit
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods to Zon
Mellie McMinnar: creativity is the exact opposite of following rules
Bleu Oleander: I have found structure to be freeing regarding creativity
adoro Rhapsody: not always
Eliza Madrigal: not really... the rules may form the common ground that wouldn't be there otherwise
adoro Rhapsody: when u know how to paint u make better paintings
Catrinamonblue Resident: imagine a book written without following gramer and spelling rules
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zon Kwan: nods to eliza
Catrinamonblue Resident: wouid be hard to read
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: would be hard to even communicate
adoro Rhapsody: so we have small rules or structure and largs rules or structure
Mellie McMinnar: ok, Bleu.... and do you think that it would work for everyone? Would you like to force everyone to follow your way?
Zon Kwan: we need rules to communicate
Bleu Oleander: not at all Mellie
Bleu Oleander: rules are contextual
Mellie McMinnar: that is, what social rules do
Eliza Madrigal: yes... sometimes rules are simply ettiquite too... guides for entrance so everyone finds the spot in the woods to be together in
Bleu Oleander: some rules help in different contexts
Mellie McMinnar: people always say that you are "born free"..... but that isn't true.... you are born into a whole load of rules you didn't choose
Eliza Madrigal: inception :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: well you can "choose" not to follow them :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have to go.... great conversation, thanks
Bleu Oleander: yes, but you can grow up to help make better rules ... better ways for people to thrive
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Eliza
Bleu Oleander: ok bye Eliza
Mellie McMinnar: I am not against rules in general... of course not.... but most social rules are simply made up
adoro Rhapsody: bye eliza
Bleu Oleander: I must also get going
Mellie McMinnar: bye Eli
adoro Rhapsody: bye blue hour
Bleu Oleander: thank you all for coming
Eliza Madrigal: have a lovely day everyone
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Bleu
Mellie McMinnar: bye Bleu
Bleu Oleander: lovely to see you all
Bleu Oleander: take care
Bleu Oleander: byeee
Arisia Vita: I too must fly, it was great being with you all, hope to see you all again soon
Arisia Vita: be well and happy
adoro Rhapsody: bye ari
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Ari
Mellie McMinnar: bb ari
Zon Kwan: leaves too, waves
Catrinamonblue Resident: bye Zon :)
adoro Rhapsody: bye zon
Catrinamonblue Resident: I guess I shouid be going too :)
Mellie McMinnar: bye Cat :D
adoro Rhapsody: bye catri
Catrinamonblue Resident: see you round :)

--BELL--
Mellie McMinnar: so, I managed to drive them all away ^^
adoro Rhapsody: or we did
adoro Rhapsody: you know what the tiny sit here thing is between us ?
Mellie McMinnar: I guess it is for tiny avatars
adoro Rhapsody: could be
adoro Rhapsody: i remember our trip of yesterday
adoro Rhapsody: it was great
Mellie McMinnar: funny how few people can handle a uncomfortable conversation
adoro Rhapsody: what u mean ?
Mellie McMinnar: yes, it was :) I really enjoyed that
adoro Rhapsody: u have spare time too ?
Mellie McMinnar: I mean... I am totally ok with society and rules.... I just like to represent the "difficult" opinion
Mellie McMinnar: Oh, I have some time left, yes
adoro Rhapsody: me too
adoro Rhapsody: its sunday afternoon here
adoro Rhapsody: before we go to dinner
Mellie McMinnar: so, what do you wanna do?
adoro Rhapsody: nothing
adoro Rhapsody: just talk
Mellie McMinnar: just nothing`?
adoro Rhapsody: or listen to music
Mellie McMinnar: ok, let's talk then :)
adoro Rhapsody: explore our ideas
adoro Rhapsody: u may start
adoro Rhapsody: what u like to talk over ?
Mellie McMinnar: ok.... ideas.... hmmm... I think that the universe is a 4-dimensional circle that travels on the outside if a 4-dimensional torus
adoro Rhapsody: interesting
adoro Rhapsody: which 4 doimensions ?
adoro Rhapsody: time, distance, weight, ...
Mellie McMinnar: no, just 4 spacial dimensions.... it would explain some things.... like why the expansion of the universe is speeding up
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: why speeding up ?
Mellie McMinnar: it is speeding up.... and physicists have no idea why
Mellie McMinnar: they call it "dark energy"... just for having a name to talk about
adoro Rhapsody: ah
adoro Rhapsody: no idea
Mellie McMinnar: ok, your turn :)
adoro Rhapsody: what do u think yourself ?
Mellie McMinnar: well, I just told you
adoro Rhapsody: I wonder why we can get older
adoro Rhapsody: in a nice way
Mellie McMinnar: what do you mean?
adoro Rhapsody: some say we are growing older
adoro Rhapsody: but costs of healthcare cannot grow
adoro Rhapsody: so how to do it ?
adoro Rhapsody: or just accept to live shorter
adoro Rhapsody: ?
Mellie McMinnar: nothing can grow forever..... at some point we either have to stop growing, or breaking down
adoro Rhapsody: sure
adoro Rhapsody: but it was the same discussion as here before
adoro Rhapsody: what is the value
adoro Rhapsody: personal or social ?
adoro Rhapsody: i see u move but no characters
Mellie McMinnar: all values are personal..... social values are just personal values widely taught
adoro Rhapsody: nice said
adoro Rhapsody: melli
adoro Rhapsody: e
Mellie McMinnar: a better question: what is important?
adoro Rhapsody: important is what some one thinks to be important
adoro Rhapsody: and how many ppl do think so too
Mellie McMinnar: exactly

--BELL--
Mellie McMinnar: there is no such thing as "objective importance"
adoro Rhapsody: taking the risc u think me a fast looser, i wanna say i will quit this conversation
adoro Rhapsody: i like to explore more in sl
Mellie McMinnar: we can explore together if you like
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Mellie McMinnar: TP me :)
adoro Rhapsody: shal we take a ride behind us
Mellie McMinnar: let's try