The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

I started at Kira Cafe because of a restart but the region came back on early :

Zen Arado: Hi again Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: Hi Xirana :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
Zen Arado: restart was early today
Zen Arado: SL seems a bit funny lately
Xirana Oximoxi: yes... I could not move to kira either
Zen Arado: they probably neglected maintenance over the holidays
Xirana Oximoxi: yes... maintenance or maybe they try to improve things and they get worse :)
Xirana Oximoxi: wow...what a nice shirt Zen! :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: yess nice :)
Zen Arado: just an old one I thrwe on from my inventory ;)
Xirana Oximoxi: dj shirt?
Zen Arado: heh
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: I buy clothes then forget I have them
Zen Arado: wear the same thing for weeks
Xirana Oximoxi: oh I have a lot to try too:)..usually freebies)
Zen Arado: I do buy some
Xirana Oximoxi: if I buy I know better
Zen Arado: gave up making them
Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh why? is it difficult?
Xirana Oximoxi: I like the sweater you gave me
Zen Arado: hard to make really nice clothes
Xirana Oximoxi: yes, sure
Yakuzza Lethecus: 's current display-name is "Yaku".
Zen Arado: just takes time and patiernce I guess though
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Yaku
Xirana Oximoxi: I just can make clothes with the easy tools of the viewer, and then put a texture
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Yaku!
Zen Arado: maybe we'll get Sunji onto making clothes
Zen Arado: at her building session
Xirana Oximoxi: hehe..yes...and then she can teach us:)
Zen Arado: needs a lot of work with photo programs though
Xirana Oximoxi: yes.. that's why I've always been lazy to learn
Zen Arado: I work out how to do it
Zen Arado: then next time I have forgotten again
Xirana Oximoxi: :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: I should write down the steps
Zen Arado: I like Paint Shop Pro the best
Zen Arado: and most instructions are for photoshop
Zen Arado: or even Gimp
Xirana Oximoxi: I use the gimp
Xirana Oximoxi: it has a lot of possibilitites
Zen Arado: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: and is free:)
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: the topic is equanimity I think
Xirana Oximoxi: yes, I've just checked
Zen Arado: didn't we do that before?
Xirana Oximoxi: I think steve said we did...but we can speak about it again....
Zen Arado: Hi Lila :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Lila
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Lila
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Everybody
Zen Arado: remembers Zen story about a monk
Lila Darkmatter: most of them seem to be ^.^ (about monks)
Catrinamonblue Resident: listens
Xirana Oximoxi listens to

Equanimity or aloofness?

Zen Arado: 'There was an old woman in China who had supported a monk for over twenty years. She had built a little hut for him and fed him while he was meditating. Finally she wondered just what progress he had made in all this time. To find out, she obtained the help of a girl rich in desire. "Go and embrace him," she told her, "and then ask him suddenly: 'What now?'" The girl called upon the monk and without much ado caressed him, asking him what he was going to do about it. "An old tree grows on a cold rock in winter," replied the monk somewhat poetically. "Nowhere is there any warmth." The girl returned and related what he had said. "To think I fed that fellow for twenty years!" exclaimed the old woman in anger. "He showed no consideration for your need, no disposition to explain your condition. He need not have responded to passion, but at least he could have evidenced some compassion;" She at once went to the hut of the monk and burned it down. '

Zen Arado: was the monk showing equanimity?
Lila Darkmatter: he was aloof
Zen Arado: i.e unmoved by things happening in life?
Lila Darkmatter: indifferent maybe
Zen Arado: equanimity isn't indifference then
Zen Arado: or withdrawal
Xirana Oximoxi: maybe is more related to 'balance' ?
Zen Arado: it is still being in the middle of the mess of life
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: maybe like steering a canoe down a river with rapids
Zen Arado: ha wu wei
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm rather new to all this and to learning equanimity but my understanding is that you feel but give equal attention to both the good and the bad, not taking one over the other?
Zen Arado: nice way to put it Cat
Zen Arado: like balance again
Zen Arado: ?
Zen Arado: what causes us to lose equanimity?
Zen Arado: lose our cool :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I keep thinking of Anne from Anne of Green Gables who FELT things both good and bed to the fullest of the feeling :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: bad*
Zen Arado: never read that
Catrinamonblue Resident: never heard of Anne?
Lila Darkmatter: :) nice reference
Xirana Oximoxi: I have not
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: I'll google:)
Lila Darkmatter: Canadians will of course know ^.^
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think we lose our balance when we get lost in a feeling
Lila Darkmatter: so where is the line between embracing/experiencing a feeling and getting lost in it?
Catrinamonblue Resident: experience
Catrinamonblue Resident: experience will teach you where that line is
Zen Arado: or we get lost in thoughts
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Lila Darkmatter: the monk probably had a lot of book learning and meditative stability - balance in that sense
Zen Arado: good question Lila
Zen Arado: the monk went too far in the indifference side perhaps
Zen Arado: but hardly surprising
Lila Darkmatter: I've caught myself in those moments... where someone is sharing on a personal level and I hear myself tell them some 'teaching'
Zen Arado: given his background
Zen Arado: yes Lila
Zen Arado: me too
Lila Darkmatter: over time one wishes for the 'original' to come forward more , yet the learning is important too
Zen Arado: I wonder how I would have acted in that situation
Zen Arado: wonder if that is like when a woman asked me for sex the other week in Kira?
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: thought suddenly struck me
Zen Arado: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Zen Arado: I acted like the monk really
Zen Arado: didn't I?
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Lila Darkmatter: no
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes we are all lonely and just want interaction/acknowledgment, but not always knowing the right way to ask
Xirana Oximoxi: were you both alone?..it makes a difference:))..or it was a day I also was there and probably more people...

Zen Arado: there were others around that day
Catrinamonblue Resident: or it was just someone out to see what they could get away with :) there are those out in the world too
Zen Arado: but the monk could have thought like that too
Zen Arado: what is she after?
Zen Arado: it came out of the blue
Lila Darkmatter: yes... maybe he knew it was a test
Lila Darkmatter: and he responded as he 'thought' a person should respond to a test
Zen Arado: he might have thought the best way was to resist
Zen Arado: if it was a test
Xirana Oximoxi: well... maybe the monk has other preferences...or ways of doing
Zen Arado: actually I feeel a bit sorry for the monk
Xirana Oximoxi: hehe
Lila Darkmatter: one has to wonder about the woman who hired the girl
Zen Arado: he was put on the spot
Zen Arado: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: yes
Zen Arado: I think most men would find that a hard test of equanimity
Lila Darkmatter: the girl was known to be so needy, yet she used her rather than helping her
Zen Arado: most would go too far in either direction
Lila Darkmatter: good point
Lila Darkmatter: what are 'interviews' like, in Zen?
Zen Arado: especially if being physically cuddled
Lila Darkmatter: I've never been through such a thing, that I know of :)

Dokusan interviews and teachers:

Zen Arado: Dokusan you mean?
Lila Darkmatter: yes when you study with a teacher and attend retreats
Zen Arado: yes that's what it's called
Zen Arado: I never really liked them
Zen Arado: you had to stop at the door and bow
Zen Arado: then sit in front of the teacher and bow again
Zen Arado: then I never knew what to say ;)
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen Arado: he would just sit and look at you
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Zen Arado: I asked him what I was supposed to say one time
Zen Arado: he said 'it's about how your practice is going'
Zen Arado: so I said it's ok
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen Arado: sometimes I would ask about free will or something
Zen Arado: he said 'but we have awareness'
Lila Darkmatter: interesting
Zen Arado: I could still get dokusan by phone if I wanted to
Zen Arado: but I stopped it
Lila Darkmatter: I would think it to be helpful... a kind of exposure not just to the teacher but to yourself
Zen Arado: it has to be the right teacher
Zen Arado: I would love Steve Hagen to be my teacher
Zen Arado: he is a Zen teacher in Minneapolis
Lila Darkmatter: what is unique about him?
Zen Arado: really enjoying his latest book
Zen Arado: he explains things
Zen Arado: he is into philosophy a lot
Zen Arado: maybe that's why I like him
Zen Arado: first book I read about Buddhism was by him
Zen Arado: Buddhism Plain and Simple
Lila Darkmatter: oh, so in a way he is your teacher - first spark?
Zen Arado: yes I guess
Zen Arado: the RL teacher is idolized by many where I live
Zen Arado: but I find him difficult to reach

Zen Arado: so we have to find teachers we resonate with
Lila Darkmatter: what about in art Xiri? Do you have mentors or particular people you may ask for guidance?
Xirana Oximoxi: I've had other painters that I can say have been my teachers, ...but now I go my way, always learning from other artsts, but not like if they were my teacher
Lila Darkmatter nods
Lila Darkmatter: I suppose once you find your voice it takes you on
Zen Arado: it's good to have teachers at the start
Zen Arado: but we have to learn to let go of them
Zen Arado: like parenting too?
Lila Darkmatter: exposure to good parents helps a lot
Xirana Oximoxi: yes... a techer is good to learn the basics, the techniques ... but later...they usually try to make you paint like them... and what I enjoy most is the diversity, infinite different ways to express same things
Zen Arado: it saves time too
Lila Darkmatter: break free into your own expression
Xirana Oximoxi: yes:)
Xirana Oximoxi: but as I have said....I have a lot of influences
Zen Arado: but you need to learn the basic techniques to be able to then freely express yourself
Xirana Oximoxi: aand that's not a bad thing
Zen Arado: like musicians have to practice scales
Xirana Oximoxi: exactly
Lila Darkmatter: I was watching a show about the game of GO, and the way that playing better players is both agonizing and exposing but allows for growth
Zen Arado: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: if you know the techniques you've got more ability to paint and express
Zen Arado: yet all artsists learn from other artists
Lila Darkmatter: but if bogged down in techniques then maybe the work doesn't reach the heart
Lila Darkmatter: balance :)
Xirana Oximoxi: absolutly Zen....
Zen Arado: most in my art club are like that
Xirana Oximoxi: I know I have learned from impressionist, expressionist...etc. etc. etc.
Zen Arado: they just want to learn the 'right' way to paint
Xirana Oximoxi: it does not exist:))
Lila Darkmatter: each angle opening another facet
Catrinamonblue Resident: slips away quietly so as not to interrupt. Have a good day guys :)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Cat:)
Lila Darkmatter waves
Zen Arado: bye Cat ty for coming :)

Finding the 'right' group:

Lila Darkmatter: I attended a buddhist group last night... part of a UU church
Zen Arado: ah and...?
Lila Darkmatter: it was pleasant enough, yet takes on the character of the church in ways, which is quite political
Zen Arado: is it a particular form of Buddhism?
Lila Darkmatter: I realized that it was nice to keep in touch there yet I left feeling a bit hm...
Lila Darkmatter: well that was part of the issue
Lila Darkmatter: people shared in terms of "well buddhism says this..."
Lila Darkmatter: without diversity necessarily
Zen Arado: scriptural Buddhism
Lila Darkmatter: and debated that against feelings and ethics... which is fine but not particular
Zen Arado: Theravadins can be quite scriptual
Zen Arado: I had enough of that in Christianity
Xirana Oximoxi: brb
Lila Darkmatter: I liked the people
Zen Arado: I don't think the Buddha meant his teaching to be followed to the letter for all time
Lila Darkmatter: and I am looking for a group to study with, but it wasn't quite the right fit
Lila Darkmatter nods
Zen Arado: ultimately maybe no group is right for us
Lila Darkmatter: what I want is more of a GO league, but not for GO
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: it's the Taoist element of Zen I liked most I now realize
Zen Arado: Zen is Buddhism modified by Chinese Taosim when it went there
Lila Darkmatter nods.... any such thing as a Tao teacher?
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: I will go now.... have a nice time and see you soon! :)
Zen Arado: I'm not so keen on the religious elements of rituals
Lila Darkmatter: nice to see you Xiri... wil come back to the exhibit
Zen Arado: kk byye Xiri ;)
Lila Darkmatter: hopefully not as laggy, but it was fun
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: I am preparing another one...I am a busy busy SL artist:))
Lila Darkmatter smiles

Zen Arado: I like Darryl Bailey and Joan Tollifson
Zen Arado: non duality I guess
Zen Arado: and Steve Hagen
Lila Darkmatter: me too... not really those teachers specifically but overall it feels like a ground people of no religion and lots of religion can meet in
Zen Arado: yes
Lila Darkmatter: Of the three I appreciate Bailey... also Adyashanti
Zen Arado: there is a kind of core eaching that is found in many religions
Zen Arado: even in Christianity to some extent
Lila Darkmatter: yes
Lila Darkmatter: maybe due to open channels of communication in the world we're able to meet there more often
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: I don't think I have to be a devotee of any particular religion and think 'this is the right way or the only way'
Lila Darkmatter: but why we do that can't be just to write and read more books
Lila Darkmatter: agree Zen... yet, if someone with all options open chooses one specific teacher or path, that seems beautiful to me
Zen Arado: so long as they don't think their way is superior
Zen Arado: and that is a great temptation
Lila Darkmatter: well, superior 'for them' is okay?
Zen Arado: can do it in non duality too
Lila Darkmatter: Are you familiar with Ken McLeod?
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: Tibetan teacher
Lila Darkmatter: he sent the most fascinating newsletter recently
Lila Darkmatter: basically, that he is revisiting everything he's ever taught and shutting down FB and Ning channels
Lila Darkmatter: and is on a kind of extended sabbatical
Zen Arado: interesting
Lila Darkmatter: it is, impressive that at this place in life he losing his place, so to speak, and allowing something 'else' - whatever that may be
Zen Arado: great
Lila Darkmatter: unusual
Zen Arado: hard to let go of investment in building up a status and following
Lila Darkmatter: indeed
Lila Darkmatter: his website is wonderful though, many resources... think that stays and it isn't that he is rejecting anything, as I understand, but revisiting
Lila Darkmatter: staying open
Lila Darkmatter: it has a 'going to cave' feeling
Zen Arado: I like that
Yakuzza Lethecus: thanks, was great reading the conversation :)
Zen Arado: hope to stay lke that myself
Lila Darkmatter: :) Yaku silent and formal
Lila Darkmatter: hugs
Zen Arado: byee Yaku ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hugs (zen,lila)
Lila Darkmatter: me too Zen, or become that way... supple minded
Zen Arado: it's just about SEEING as Hagen keeps saying
Lila Darkmatter: say more?
Zen Arado: it is consciousness that splits things up
Zen Arado: he has some really interesting things to say about consciousness
Lila Darkmatter: that seems an odd statement
Zen Arado: I am only trying to grasp what he says
Lila Darkmatter: that lights up one thing and not another?
Zen Arado: that consciousness preceds matter and language for instance
Zen Arado: not a common sense view
Zen Arado: but I will talk more about that when I finish the book
Lila Darkmatter: ok
Zen Arado: pity I can't get it on Kindle
Lila Darkmatter: many things one can't get on a kindle
Zen Arado: find it really difficult dealing with paper books now
Zen Arado: can't even quote
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen Arado: or flick through the book
Zen Arado: or make highlights and notes
Lila Darkmatter: I am using my computer for too many things... reading the Lotus Sutra last night I was in all kinds of contortions trying to manage comfort
Lila Darkmatter: but you're right it is nice to underline
Zen Arado: and find then easily
Zen Arado: I better go make dinner
Lila Darkmatter: bye Zen, thanks for the talk
Zen Arado: thanks for coming Lila ;)
Zen Arado: hugs
--BELL--
Lila Darkmatter: bye for now, hugs