2013.01.25 01:00 - Moon-viewing platform

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: I'm still thinking on and off about the overlap and difference between work and play
Wol Euler: or work and game
Wol Euler: or work and not-work, and game and not-game
Wol Euler: (we talked about this yesterday at 7am)
Wol Euler: I got hung up on the way that the group was using "work" to mean anything and everything, both states at once
Wol Euler: using one word for two different things worries me, because I cannot be sure of what you mean
Wol Euler: if you point at something I think is yellow and say "this is yellow", then we are *apparently* in agreement.
Wol Euler: but if you then point at something I think is blue and say "this too is yellow"
Wol Euler: then I am lost
Wol Euler: because I no longer understand what you mean by "yellow"
Wol Euler: perhaps you mean that both those things have sharp corners?
Wol Euler: because clearly you aren't talking about what I consider to be the meaning of yellow, the objects' colouration
Wol Euler: anyway, I'll just have to come to terms with this.
Wol Euler: (an interesting expression, itself redolent of the significance that words have :)

--BELL--

Hana Furlough's current display-name is "Hana".
Wol Euler: timezone-appropriate greetings, hana
Hana Furlough: and to you, wol!
Hana Furlough: how's the jet lag?
Wol Euler: still beating me up
Hana Furlough: eek i'm sorry
Wol Euler: I think it's getting better, I slept through the night
Wol Euler: but I've said that before
Hana Furlough: i find that sleeping through the night doesn't always mean the end of the lag
Wol Euler: yeah, so true
Hana Furlough: well, i hope yours goes away soon
Wol Euler: thank you
Wol Euler: I think having some structure to the day helps too, at a psychological level
Wol Euler: it probably was a hindrance that I have been basically hiding out at home this last week
Hana Furlough: oh yeah could be
Hana Furlough: so you're back at work now?
Wol Euler: yes, for certain values of "work"
Wol Euler: we don't have much to do, sad to say, just one building-permission drawing set for a smalll house
Wol Euler: and as soon as that is granted, the working drawings and tender documents
Wol Euler: that isn't going to feed us for long
Hana Furlough: oh no
Hana Furlough: i hope things pick up soon!
Wol Euler: thanks
Wol Euler: we are trying to find some competitions to do
Wol Euler: as it looks like our hoped-for big project is going to be postponed or cancelled
Hana Furlough: oh no
Wol Euler: as the CEO of the client company is retiring at the end of the year for health reasons and there is no successor yet
Hana Furlough: that's too bad
Wol Euler: yes, it is; thanks
Wol Euler: how are you? baby birds and footnotes?
Hana Furlough: good thanks!
Hana Furlough: yes, that about sums it up
Hana Furlough: the birds are getting bigger by the day, but still yellow like ducklings
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: aren't they noisy?
Hana Furlough: not yet, they just make little peeps
Hana Furlough: mom and dad don't make that much noise, either
Hana Furlough: they do greet each other a little when it's time for the changing of the guard
Wol Euler smiles.
Hana Furlough: do you have any pets/visitors?
Wol Euler: no, neither
Hana Furlough: oh i see
Hana Furlough: easy to go on vacation, though
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Hana Furlough: : )
Wol Euler: I'm not sure why there are so few birds here
Wol Euler: in summer sometimes sparrows sit on the balcony railing
Wol Euler: but that's it
Hana Furlough: oh interesting

--BELL--

Wol Euler: actually, they are probably not looking for nests in the balconies because they can nest in the trees of the schoolyard
Wol Euler: so they don't need to share our space
Hana Furlough: oh yeah, that is probably it
Hana Furlough: it's nice that they have trees
Wol Euler: there aren't many trees in Stuttgart, most of the streets are pretty bare
Hana Furlough: oh i see
Wol Euler: there are green zones in leftover areas, where the hills are too steep or where grid patterns converge and leave oddshaped corners
Wol Euler: but by and large it's very not-green
Hana Furlough: yeah, kyoto is kind of similar
Hana Furlough: not a lot of green on the streets
Hana Furlough: lots near temples, shrines and the river
Hana Furlough: but not in the downtown areas
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: Toronto and Victoria are full of trees
Wol Euler: typical North American low-density development, lots of semiprivate green space
Wol Euler: huge road allowances
Hana Furlough: sounds very nice
Wol Euler: Stuttgart is very much constrained by its geography, the steep and narrow valleys
Wol Euler: most other German cities have more trees because they were built on flatland
Hana Furlough: so it's hilly then?
Wol Euler: very
Wol Euler: 330 metre change in altitude within the city limits :)
Wol Euler: steeper than San Francisco
Wol Euler: greater change, not necessarily steeper streets
Hana Furlough: wow
Hana Furlough: must be difficult to drive
Wol Euler: we follow the contours instead of forcing a road-grid across them as SF did
Hana Furlough: that's smart
Wol Euler: not so much, because the roads follow the hills; parking is the big problem
Wol Euler: narrow streets and apartment buildings = not much space for parking along the roads
Hana Furlough: oh i see
Hana Furlough: i'm wikipediaing stuttgart right now
Hana Furlough: it seems pleasant
Wol Euler: it is :)
Wol Euler: everyone who visits here has liked it
Wol Euler: it's not the prettiest place in the world, or the most cosmopolitan, or the most exciting nightlife
Wol Euler: but as a place to live, it's hard to beat
Wol Euler: I walk to work, I walk downtown for shopping ...
Wol Euler: I can walk out and be alone in the forest
Hana Furlough: oh very nice
Hana Furlough: this may sound like a silly question, but is the black forest cool?
Wol Euler: not at all a silly question
Wol Euler: yes, it is cool if not cold even on summer days
Wol Euler: because the trees are so dense, hardly any sunlight gets in
Wol Euler: hence "black"
Hana Furlough: ahh i see
Wol Euler: plus the natural humidity of the forest, it can be quite chilly in there
Hana Furlough: do you go there often?
Wol Euler: not really, no
Wol Euler: the Black Forest itself is a hundred km away, south of here
Wol Euler: the forest around Stuttgart is not nearly so dense, and mostly deciduous
Wol Euler: beech and the like
Hana Furlough: oh that's far
Wol Euler: quite airy by comparison
Hana Furlough: sounds nice
Wol Euler: I like it :)
Wol Euler: the trees tend to be very tall and thin, spindly
Wol Euler: with horizontal branches around them, sort of like bottle cleaners
Hana Furlough: haha nice
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I've tried many times to photograph this, especially in Spring with the lovely fresh light green of the new leaves
Wol Euler: never succeeeded to my own satisfaction
Hana Furlough: yeah photographs can be hard
Hana Furlough: i feel like that about one of the gardens i study
Hana Furlough: it's just never right
Wol Euler nods.

--BELL--

Hana Furlough: i've been able to get a photo from one angle that i feel gets close to it, but that is only one small part
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: photography reveals how much the eye edits :)
Hana Furlough: : )
Hana Furlough: indeed
Wol Euler: when I think about photography, one of the first sets of images I recall is of monochrome photos of Japanese houses and gardens from the 1970s
Wol Euler: I used to borrow the books from the library and pore over them
Hana Furlough: oh wow!
Wol Euler: they were huge books, big and thick and heavy
Wol Euler: Katsura, Ryoanji
Hana Furlough: ahh yes!
Hana Furlough: did you get a chance to go to some of those gardens when you were here?
Wol Euler: Takeshi Nishiwara was the photographer
Wol Euler: no, neither of those specifically
Wol Euler: both had waiting lists because it was high season for tourism
Wol Euler: autumn leaves and all that
Wol Euler: the next available vacancy for Katsura was actually in mid-January, two months away
Hana Furlough: oh right
Hana Furlough: wow
Wol Euler: yeah
Hana Furlough: that's crazy
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: but on the other hand, I can appreciate the intention that one be able to enjoy the palace and gardens without fighting against crowds
Wol Euler: the opposite of trying to see the Mona Lisa (something I recommend NOT doing)
Hana Furlough: oh really?
Wol Euler: it's a small painting in a large room, and there are always 300 people in that room trying to get close enough to actually look at it
Wol Euler: the room is full of paintings, old masters, but nobody ever looks at them
Hana Furlough: that's sad
Wol Euler: all concentrated on that one object
Wol Euler: it is sad
Wol Euler: because frankly the painting isn't worth it
Wol Euler: it's not that great
Wol Euler: it has achieved celebrity, people look at it only because it is famous, not because it is good
Hana Furlough: yeah, there are several temples/works in japan that i feel that way about
Hana Furlough: i feel kind of bad about telling people that there isn't really anything that great about them
Wol Euler nods.
Hana Furlough: but most people appreciate hearing about what was great in the medieval period
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: man, I have such memories, listening to you talk about Kyoto
Wol Euler: I would love to go back
Hana Furlough: : )
Hana Furlough: yes, come back and visit pema and me sometime!
Hana Furlough: you can show me around katsura...i've never been there
Wol Euler: yay :)
Wol Euler: definitely
Wol Euler: well I know it only from photographs and drawings
Hana Furlough: which means you know it better than i
Wol Euler: but I'd love to see it in the flesh
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: something that has stayed with me from that childhood experience of looking at those photos, is from Katsura
Wol Euler: it's a huge house, a palace, but a fairly informal one
Wol Euler: set around a lake
Wol Euler: itself carefully arranged to seem totally natural :)
Hana Furlough: amazing
Hana Furlough: is the lake manmade?
Wol Euler: I believe that there was a lake there, but that it was extensively landscaped and remade
Hana Furlough: ahh i see
Wol Euler: on a little promonotory in that lake, facing across the lake to the house, is a "moon-viewing platform"*
Hana Furlough: very nice
Wol Euler: that was the english translation of the japanese name

--BELL--

Wol Euler: "moon-viewing platform"
Wol Euler: what a beautiful and strange concept!
Hana Furlough: i just checked the japanese, and it is indeed "moon-viewing platform"
Wol Euler: I've had that phrase in mind for forty years now
Hana Furlough: wow!
Wol Euler: I kept thinking about it
Wol Euler: what an odd and lovely idea, to make a special place to go and stand and look at the moon from!
Wol Euler: as though you couldn't see it anywhere.
Hana Furlough: : )
Wol Euler: and I thought that this must say something very significant about the Japanese
Wol Euler smiles.
Hana Furlough: i'm sure you know, but that kind of thing was pretty common
Hana Furlough: to have a designated place from which to view the moon
Hana Furlough: somewhere where it looks really good
Wol Euler nods.
Hana Furlough: it's cool, right?
Wol Euler: which makes perfect sense if you start with that sensibility
Wol Euler: is is extremely cool
Wol Euler: and / but: no European garden has such a designated place
Hana Furlough: oh really?!
Wol Euler: no European ever thought of doing that
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Hana Furlough: wow
Hana Furlough: fascinating
Wol Euler: I only understood it (specific to Katsura) after maybe 20 years of thinking about it, when I'd already finished architecture study
Wol Euler: because the platform is on that promonotory, it is surrounded by water on three sides
Wol Euler: meaning that you see the moon's reflection in the lake no matter where it is in the sky
Hana Furlough: wow!
Hana Furlough: that's incredible!
Wol Euler: it's such an amazingly Zen idea
Wol Euler: like a built koan
Hana Furlough: yeah, that really is amazing
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: that was my first idea of Japan
Wol Euler: these marvellously subtle black and white photos, huge photos in that big heavy book, of the moon-viewing platform
Hana Furlough: : ) !
Hana Furlough: that makes me really happy
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: me too actually, even today, forty years later
Hana Furlough: : )
Hana Furlough: when i was reading about the moon viewing platform, i came across this site with a video
Hana Furlough: http://sankan.kunaicho.go.jp/english...e/katsura.html
Hana Furlough: it's making me want to go
Hana Furlough: actually, my school is in katsura and yet i've not been to the palace there
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Wol Euler: Ah, those names. Shokintei! Amanohashidate!! *sighs*
Wol Euler: like poetry in my young ears
Hana Furlough: : )
Wol Euler chuckles.
Wol Euler: yes, I know; but it was so wonderfully exotic and foreign
Hana Furlough: ah, the moon-viewing platform is in the video
Hana Furlough: oh i don't think it's funny at all
Wol Euler: and old, it was like a bit of Tolkein come to life
Hana Furlough: the names are very beautiful in japanese
Hana Furlough: very elegant-sounding
Hana Furlough: i think they were meant to be that way
Wol Euler: oh yes, I am certain they were
Wol Euler: I am sure that the court poets gave as much thought to the names of things as the gardeners did to the placement of things
Hana Furlough: yes, you're right about that : )
Wol Euler: you know, I've just understood something else
Wol Euler: what entranced me about this image of Japan was the impression it gave of *care*
Wol Euler: of slow and deliberate consideration
Wol Euler: of patient and thoughtful observation of the place

--BELL--

Wol Euler: whereas European houses are almost always just thrown down on the nearest bit of flattish land
Wol Euler: it would never have occurred to a European lord of the 16th century to have situated his house to give a view of the moon
Hana Furlough: fascinating
Wol Euler: I felt that as a child, but couldn't articulate it
Hana Furlough: there is a lot of care
Wol Euler smiles.
Hana Furlough: : )
Wol Euler: so, yes, when I come to Kyoto next we will visit Katsura :)
Hana Furlough: i shall look forward to it!
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: There is or was a recreation of Ryoanji in SL, do you know it?
Hana Furlough: oh no i don't
Hana Furlough: i want to see, though
Wol Euler: ah, damn, the LM says the land was abandoned :(
Hana Furlough: bummer
Hana Furlough: that would have been cool to see
Wol Euler: it was, yes
Wol Euler: very nicely made
Wol Euler: though to be honest I hadn't been there in years
Hana Furlough: i'm sorry i missed it
Wol Euler: there's a Zen lesson in that, I guess
Wol Euler: impermanence is the nature of all things, even virtual things
Hana Furlough: : )
Hana Furlough: well-said
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: it was typical of SL, a little gem surrounded by dross
Hana Furlough: : )
Wol Euler: do you ever go to services in the temples?

--BELL--

Hana Furlough: yes, sometimes
Hana Furlough: i was lucky and caught a secret buddha on display for the first time in three years recently
Wol Euler: oh wow
Hana Furlough: there was a small service and we were allowed to offer incense before the statue
Hana Furlough: it was really nice
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: lucky
Hana Furlough: do you have a favorite temple that you visited here or elsewhere?
Wol Euler: well I was only in them once each, on the whole
Wol Euler: but yes, on the east side, Choin-Ji
Wol Euler: the large complex of large buildings
Hana Furlough: ahh yes
Wol Euler: one of them has a famous painted ceiling of dragons
Wol Euler: I happened to catch a service there
Wol Euler: it was fascinating
Hana Furlough: nice!
Wol Euler: funny that this is one of the few names I managed to retain :)
Wol Euler: it felt very lucky
Wol Euler: to have seen and heard that
Wol Euler: even though of course I understood nothing that was said
Hana Furlough: i'm sure you got all the important parts : )
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I certainly got the atmosphere
Wol Euler: fascinating comparison to services in European cathedrals of similar age
Hana Furlough: really?
Wol Euler: I was surprised by the (shall we say) musical accompaniment
Wol Euler: there were two ministrants (monks?) at the back of the group, with gongs, bells, flutes
Wol Euler: setting musical accents throughout the service
Wol Euler: often just a single stroke of the gong
Wol Euler: or wood blocks, click-sticks we used to call them
Hana Furlough: oh right
Hana Furlough: i like those accents
Wol Euler nods.
Hana Furlough: it kind of breaks it up
Wol Euler: "pay attention!" or "yes"
Hana Furlough: : )
Hana Furlough: was that in nov. or dec.?
Wol Euler: hmm, when was I there? end of november
Hana Furlough: interesting
Hana Furlough: was just wondering what service you saw
Hana Furlough: or if it was a regular service
Wol Euler: well, it was early afternoon
Wol Euler: and only a small attendance, maybe a dozen people
Wol Euler: they looked like a group that knew each other, insofar as I can judge Japanese body language from a distance in a formal setting :)
Hana Furlough: oh ok
Wol Euler: it may have been a private service, though I couldn't guess the context
Hana Furlough: yeah it sounds like it could have been
Hana Furlough: maybe a memorial of someone's death date
Wol Euler: that may have been it, yes
Wol Euler: not a funeral, not sad enough for that
Hana Furlough: not enough black clothing, either?
Wol Euler: certainly nothing to do with children, I think there were none present
Wol Euler: no more than the Japanese usually wear black anyway :) heheheh
Hana Furlough: :)
Wol Euler: there may have been two or three of the women in kimonos

--BELL--

Wol Euler: there seemed to be a principal pair, they were around 60
Hana Furlough: interesting
Wol Euler: it was :)
Wol Euler: there was chanting and the banging of a very large bass drum from another building in the complex
Hana Furlough: yeah that's a big complex
Hana Furlough: lots going on all over the place there
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: so many temples, of all sizes
Wol Euler: Kiremimi took me to another one, extremely ancient, very much darkened by time and incense
Wol Euler: right against the hills, with a garden that blended into the forest
Wol Euler: single very large building, black wood
Wol Euler: famous for the painted screens
Hana Furlough: oh interesting
Hana Furlough: was it the silver pavilion? kinkakuji?
Wol Euler: no, it really was black :)
Hana Furlough: randomly, the silver pavilion is not silver but black
Wol Euler: ah
Hana Furlough: oh!
Hana Furlough: i know
Wol Euler: let me google it and see how it looks
Hana Furlough: nanzenji
Wol Euler: yes, that sounds right
Wol Euler: googling
Hana Furlough: tiger drinking water?
Wol Euler: that isn't it, but we went there too. I remeber that ***huge*** gate building
Hana Furlough: yes!
Wol Euler: that's not what I was thinking of
Wol Euler: this was a single building, long low roof like farmhouse style
Wol Euler: inside basically one air volume divided by painted screens
Wol Euler: we arrived and walked around one side of it to come to the entrance front, on the gable end
Hana Furlough: wow
Wol Euler: walked up three or four steps to the cedarwood platform
Hana Furlough: i wonder where you were
Hana Furlough: shisendo?
Wol Euler: there was a narrow white gravel field before that platform, behind it rounded bushes
Wol Euler: that may be it ...
Wol Euler: though my memory of it is more enclosed than those photos look
Wol Euler: I remember there was a broad walkway all around, under the eaves
Wol Euler: and a teahouse semidetached from the temple rooms
Wol Euler: one of the oldest
Wol Euler: apparently
Hana Furlough: shugakuin?
Wol Euler: no, I don't think we were there.
Wol Euler: my memory is that this temple was ancient, far older than these images seem to be
Hana Furlough: wow i wonder where you were
Wol Euler: my impression was of incense, of dark wood stained by many hundreds of years of smoke and human hands
Wol Euler: the screens were the clue, I'm sure, if I could describe them to you properly
Hana Furlough: wow
Wol Euler: the building was a single rectangle surrounded by the walkway

--BELL--

Wol Euler: carved up inside into rooms by these wooden screens
Hana Furlough: was there a pagoda?
Wol Euler: there may have been, I don't remember it
Wol Euler: I shouldn't call them wooden screens, they were elaborately painted
Wol Euler: with lots of gold leaf applied
Hana Furlough: kiyomizudera?
Wol Euler: they went up to about 2x human height, above that open fretwork to the ceiling
Hana Furlough: up on the mountain?
Wol Euler: no, but I did see that too! lovely!
Hana Furlough: haha
Wol Euler: no, this was on flat land at the very foot of the mountains
Hana Furlough: shorenin?
Wol Euler: hmmmm, not quite right
Wol Euler: perhaps my memory is faulty
Wol Euler: it wasn't a particularly famous or popular place, I think; we were nearly alone there
Hana Furlough: no no
Hana Furlough: i think i just don't know where you're talking about
Hana Furlough: but now i want to go
Wol Euler: I'll have to ask Kiremimi, when you hear the name you'll slap your forehead and say "of course" :)
Hana Furlough: maybe or maybe not
Wol Euler smiles.
Hana Furlough: well, we can add that to the list for your return visit : )
Wol Euler: hehehe, yes
Hana Furlough: well, i should let you get back to your day
Hana Furlough: really pleasant chatting
Wol Euler: and I should let you get back to your thesis :)
Hana Furlough: thank you!
Wol Euler: yes, I enjoyed it. It's so nice to connect with you again at these 1am's
Hana Furlough: yes, very lucky we can chat while everyone else is asleep!
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: what time is this for you?
Hana Furlough: 1 a.m. is 6 p.m. for me
Hana Furlough: and you?
Wol Euler: noon
Wol Euler: so only six hours ahead, you must be closer to me than California is
Hana Furlough: haha i guess so!
Wol Euler: one has such an odd idea of the world, where places are
Hana Furlough: i know
Hana Furlough: i think a lot of my relatives don't realize that i am closer to them in japan that i would be if i were in europe
Wol Euler: heh, certainly true
Wol Euler: it feels farther away, somehow
Wol Euler: I think because the Atlantic is "our" ocean
Hana Furlough: yeah i think so
Hana Furlough: a pleasant afternoon to you
Hana Furlough: until next time!
Wol Euler: you too, hana
Wol Euler: take care, enjoy the weekend
Hana Furlough: thanks, same to you!

* This is actually a forty-year-old misunderstanding. The principle was correctly understood, it is situated so that you see the moon and its reflection in the lake; but I was wrong about the placement of the platform. Looking at the map of Katsura in Hana's link, I realized that the moon-viewing platform is actually part of the house! This misconception was due to a single photograph which I can still clearly remember, which showed that part of the house viewed from the other side of the lake, and by coincidence there was a wooden platform by the water's edge in that photo. I connected that to the phrase, and not even my frequent and careful study of the plans of the house and garden was able to detach them.