2013.01.27 07:00 - "off ya go"

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Bleu Oleander: hiya Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bleu
Bleu Oleander: how's it going today?
Catrinamonblue Resident: mmm one of those days where everything goes caterwump
Bleu Oleander: awww :(
Bleu Oleander: caterwump ... :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: well it can only get better from here :)
Bleu Oleander: one of those words that sounds like what it means
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Bleu Oleander: it stopped raining here today
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: we have sun shine here but cold
Bleu Oleander: I have no tolerance for rain living in Arizona
Bleu Oleander: just one rainy day and i'm ready for sunshine
Bleu Oleander: even though we need rain :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: things have been dry this year. Even though it's winter we still have a catergory one drought level
Bleu Oleander: yes
--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: it's quiet here this morning :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: kinda nice actually
Bleu Oleander: yes agree :)
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Morning!
Bleu Oleander: not used to you as a blond :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles, good!
Bleu Oleander: so are you having more fun?
Catrinamonblue Resident: change is always good :
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: not sure how to answer yet - this skin and hair came up in inventory and feels quite natural
Eliza Madrigal: but not sure whether it is 'fun'
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: a bit like being on a new planet
Bleu Oleander: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: your gold touches are amazing Bleu
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Druth
Bleu Oleander: hiya druth :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth
druth Vlodovic: hi guys
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to interrupt though - what was the discussion?
Bleu Oleander: it was quiet actually
Bleu Oleander: enjoying the silence
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles at Goldilocks Druth
Bleu Oleander: smiles at druth ...
Eliza Madrigal: which cushion is best?
Bleu Oleander: snap
druth Vlodovic: checking cushions for cat :)
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes they don't like me but they all love Druth :)
Eliza Madrigal: Druth lives in a friendlier cushion universe?
druth Vlodovic: I have the buns for it
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Bleu Oleander: never met a cushion I didn't like :)
Eliza Madrigal: hah
druth Vlodovic: "setting limits" seems to be the theme today
Eliza Madrigal: the guardian notice?
druth Vlodovic: yes
druth Vlodovic: we have this discussion from time to time
Eliza Madrigal: it seems important to revisit
Eliza Madrigal: especially when someone comes around, as happens from time to time, who thinks it is fun to try to provoke the "loving patient meditators" lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
druth Vlodovic: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/Tutorials/Tips_for_Hosting_Sessions
druth Vlodovic: I'd forgotten that this page was there
Eliza Madrigal: this is a helpful page - found it recently in response to a question but maybe it gets lost because it is framed as only for hosts?
druth Vlodovic: some people think that provoking is good no matter the result :(
Eliza Madrigal: mostly provoking is harmless and often quite healthy
druth Vlodovic: well,I asked the WG earlier if we had a ettiquette guide for visitors
--BELL--

druth Vlodovic: I remember one being in an old intro notecard, but might be wrong
Eliza Madrigal: hm
druth Vlodovic: most sims have some sort of ettiquette guide for new people
Bleu Oleander: I think SL in general has one
Eliza Madrigal: we have a "spirit of the thing" mostly that is housed in us
druth Vlodovic: CAN I COME ALONG ? Yes. People with many different backgrounds and interests visit the group. Please respect others' points of view, and please contribute to, rather than distract from the group's purpose.
druth Vlodovic: but in an old one there was something about respecting other's beliefs
Bleu Oleander: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLetiquette
Eliza Madrigal: ty
Catrinamonblue Resident: ty
Eliza Madrigal: on the page for hosts there is: We respect spiritual beliefs and definitions of reality that fall outside the mainstream material view. We respect a wide diversity of choices and perspectives, even when we disagree, we don’t judge or invalidate other people’s experiences.
druth Vlodovic: SL ettiquette can be anything from "don't interrupt" to "don't complain if someone chains you to a post"
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: lol
Eliza Madrigal: sim to sim varies widely but there are some basics
druth Vlodovic: that should be on the notecard Eliza, maybe i should ask the WG to consider it
Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, people who come to provoke don't read the notecards probably
Eliza Madrigal: and if it gets to long, fewer and fewer might
druth Vlodovic: rules don't control griefers, they encourage them really
Eliza Madrigal nods
druth Vlodovic: but there is value to those who defy convention
Eliza Madrigal: agreed
Eliza Madrigal: where I've seen it become problematical in the past is if someone comes to every session and acts like that
druth Vlodovic: a person here got me thinking again about a reply I got in the google group I never replied to
druth Vlodovic: if i can find the thread i ought to see if I can revive it
Eliza Madrigal: or, if they focus on one person, and only someone who reads the logs consistently would notice it
druth Vlodovic: maybe we can assign someone to be watchdog for that sort of thing... 8-)
Bleu Oleander: is it that much of a problem?
Eliza Madrigal: :) we're all guardians but it takes a lot of communication
druth Vlodovic: any takers Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think so... but sometimes there are patterns and the person who addresses it can seem like a meanie
Eliza Madrigal: or absorb all the emotion of something and seem strangely out of proportion in reaction
druth Vlodovic: this is what the WG is supposed to be for I think
druth Vlodovic: dealwith things discretely and as a united front
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: it is still good to discuss things though - give refreshers on our superpowers
druth Vlodovic: and yes, on can feel put upon by taking up one's lance and tilting at a windmill alone
Eliza Madrigal: exactly
druth Vlodovic: lol
Bleu Oleander: superpowers :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think this has happened with a few people who take up others' cases
druth Vlodovic: I was shocked when I first found out that any guardian can ban people
Eliza Madrigal: there is a lot of trust in guardians here
Eliza Madrigal: that's why the invitation process is so important
druth Vlodovic: I can think of a specific example, but I suspect I can justify my actions lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: ANd why I don't feel ready to start taking on sessions yet myself
Eliza Madrigal has never banned anyone but has ejected a few times... fun
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: have had to eject someone from my own property once ... actually turned out to be a fun experience ...
druth Vlodovic: nobody feels ready until they do a few
Bleu Oleander: became friends haha
Eliza Madrigal: snap snap Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: lol friends?
Bleu Oleander: funny eh?
druth Vlodovic: what were they doing?
Bleu Oleander: being irritating
Eliza Madrigal: no hurry to take on a session Catrina, but thanks for thinking about it
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: wouldn't leave Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: yes
druth Vlodovic: was it personal view, or the noob effect?
Bleu Oleander: ejected a few times ... had a good laugh about it
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: "off ya go"
Bleu Oleander: haha yes!
Eliza Madrigal: I have some admiration for the art of trolling when it is thoughtful
Eliza Madrigal: but that's rare
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: once I let my emotions get to me after reading a log here where someone who had been visiting a lot crossed some lines I felt, but I regretted later my "passion" about how I dealt with it
Bleu Oleander: yes, that has happened to me also
druth Vlodovic: maybe we need a box of letters of apology here people can send out
Eliza Madrigal: :) well I thought of apologizing but in this case felt the person might have heard me as saying it was OK to act that way
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
druth Vlodovic: even though I am practically perfect i have been knows to get sarcastic from time to time
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri :)
druth Vlodovic: that is the fine line in communcation
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Bleu Oleander: hi Xiri :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Xirana
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I'm startled at how much gravity someone can give to words spoken in an emotional moment if the person is usually perceived as rational
druth Vlodovic: "even though you were being an ass I ought not to have acted in the way I did"
druth Vlodovic: hi Xir
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
druth Vlodovic: or the old standby "I am sorry you were upset by how I acted" which a friend of mine says isn't really an apology at all :)
Eliza Madrigal: right
Eliza Madrigal: or "I should have behaved better than you did"
Eliza Madrigal: lol
druth Vlodovic: lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: but there are times when what needs to be said really can't be, because it won't help
druth Vlodovic: we should go work for hallmark
Catrinamonblue Resident: true Eliza
druth Vlodovic: ah,"what is right is determined not by the action but by it's result"
druth Vlodovic: I've been accused of being a consequentialist
Eliza Madrigal: there may be a higher value hidden, the illusive "big picture"
Eliza Madrigal: or, sometimes if no one else seems to think something is a big deal, maybe they're right
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Aph :)
druth Vlodovic: I've told my kids that sometimes an apology is necessary just to be right themselves, and not to expect it to be accepted
Bleu Oleander: hiya Aph
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aph
druth Vlodovic: hi aph
Aphrodite Macbain: morning
Eliza Madrigal: that's great Druth
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Aph
Eliza Madrigal: a person who can apologize is a free-er person in a way
druth Vlodovic: what peple think and what they express are often quite different
Eliza Madrigal: but what about people who take everything as being their own fault
Eliza Madrigal: maybe they need to learn not to apologize ^.^
druth Vlodovic: well,they got into getting mad at the person who wouldn't accept their apology
Eliza Madrigal: ah
druth Vlodovic: which ti me seemed like re-victimizing the person they are apologizing to
Eliza Madrigal: interesting
druth Vlodovic: I've seen that to eliza :)
Aphrodite Macbain: why shouldn't a person accept an apoplogy? what does it accomplish?
druth Vlodovic: "too"
druth Vlodovic: if they are still mad
Catrinamonblue Resident: or hurt
Eliza Madrigal: maybe they don't feel it was sincere, or that the person apologized for the wrong thing
druth Vlodovic: or feel that the apology isn't sufficient
druth Vlodovic: in the last two cases it can be solved through clear communication
Eliza Madrigal: missed the point - sometimes it is a way of keeping a door open actually, holding a grudge
Aphrodite Macbain: you can still be mad but have the wisdome to recognize the person is sorry
druth Vlodovic: hurt and anger need time to settle and be reasoned out
Catrinamonblue Resident: I generally think that anger is usually hurt disguised
Eliza Madrigal nods.... agree Aph
Eliza Madrigal: but sometimes that is more the will to accept an apology rather than being able to
Aphrodite Macbain: otherwise things can escalate
Eliza Madrigal nods
druth Vlodovic: anyway
Eliza Madrigal: well quite the basis of discussion today!
druth Vlodovic: off to the thingy!
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: thank you!
Bleu Oleander: thank you all :)
Aphrodite Macbain: off to the vilage hall
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
druth Vlodovic: yeah, that