2013.01.27 13:00 - Satisfaction, where kindness meets weird: druth's project

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: "satisfaction as related to enoughness or whatever" - theme for the week
Aphrodite Macbain: How do we know when we have enough
Aphrodite Macbain: What do we need?
Aphrodite Macbain: What is essential?
Aphrodite Macbain: Can we be satisfied with simply the essentials?
Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Aphrodite Macbain: What needs to be satisfied?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Cat
--BELL--
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aph :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I’m thinking about enoughness :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: what are our basic needs?
Aphrodite Macbain: can we be satisfied with the basics?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi druth
druth Vlodovic: hoya
Aphrodite Macbain: hoy
Aphrodite Macbain: ahoy
Aphrodite Macbain: my parrot also says ahoy (shoulder friend)
druth Vlodovic: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: cute :)
Aphrodite Macbain: How is the site coming along?
Aphrodite Macbain: the museum
druth Vlodovic: I haven't looked at it in a week :/
Aphrodite Macbain: been too busy in RL?
druth Vlodovic: equanimity was escaping me so I was unable to be satisfied with it
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: not if it is escaping you

Wol Euler: evening all
druth Vlodovic: when you start thinking about burning it down it is time to give it a break :)
Aphrodite Macbain: what has been your main frustration?
druth Vlodovic: everything :)
druth Vlodovic: building, scripting, researching, I managed to pack three of my weaknesses into one project lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: he just needs to step back and breathe :)
Wol Euler smiles.
druth Vlodovic: hugs wol
Catrinamonblue Resident: break it down into one task at a time
Wol Euler: first thing is always: stop beating yourself up :) that doesn't help
Catrinamonblue Resident: concentrate on one thing at a time, and the whole will come together
druth Vlodovic: my current plan is to work on the scripting first, then rely on sun helping me with the building
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi wol
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Wol I agree
Catrinamonblue Resident: sounds feasible
Aphrodite Macbain: delegation can be fun
Wol Euler: second thing is: don't mistake yourself for Napoleon. Help is all around you, ask for it.
Catrinamonblue Resident: YES :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Catrinamonblue Resident: waves
Catrinamonblue Resident: right here yoo hoo
Aphrodite Macbain: nods. just figure out what you need and attach a name of someone who can help with it
druth Vlodovic: figuring out what i need seems to be a problem
druth Vlodovic: I asked (for help) in a manner which didn't inspire people :/
druth Vlodovic: so I need to make more specific questions
Wol Euler: I hope you didn't ask me, because I really wasn't aware that you had.
Aphrodite Macbain: you need to be specific as to what skill you are looking for
Wol Euler: (not to be too arrogant)
Aphrodite Macbain: you sent that call to everyone, didn’t  you druth?
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
druth Vlodovic: I sent a rather general request to the msg group, hoping some people would see something that might inspire them
Wol Euler looks at her e-mail
Bleu Oleander: hi y'all
Wol Euler: hello bleu
druth Vlodovic: hey bleu
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe this is an appropriate time to address the theme of "satisfaction"
Aphrodite Macbain: what would make you satisfied druth? What is essential to the success of the museum? It comes down to its purpose, its vision
Catrinamonblue Resident: good question :)
Wol Euler: okay, then I need to revise my understanding of "help". I understood your mail message to be asking for people to contribute their ready-made bits of memorabilia for you to put on your ready-made shelf.
druth Vlodovic: my plan right now is to produce the ready made shelf :)
Wol Euler: that wasn't clear to me :)
druth Vlodovic: then I'll stock it with examples
Aphrodite Macbain: what does that mean druth?
druth Vlodovic: so people can see
druth Vlodovic: your interpretation was correct
Aphrodite Macbain: so people can see what?
druth Vlodovic: exactly
Wol Euler: your mail sounded as though you had the shelves finished and were actually working on the labels
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think it's going from vision to reality that is giving Druth some troubles
druth Vlodovic: sigh, yes
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
druth Vlodovic: and keeping vision under control :)
Wol Euler: your comment today sounds like you don't even have the roof and walls of where the shelves might stand
Bleu Oleander: “vision to reality :)”
Catrinamonblue Resident: The practicalities of building are complicated
Aphrodite Macbain: Can I summarize what I think you need druth?
Wol Euler: I suspect that the truth is somewhere in between, and that your frustration is making it seem far worse and less complete than it is
Catrinamonblue Resident: some of it is there Wol jus not up to what she feels she had envisioned, or am I wrong there Druth?
druth Vlodovic: the roof and walls are there, the furniture needs work, the contents were to influence the furniture, but that seems unrealistic in retrospect
Wol Euler: (I was speaking metaphorically, I don't mean real walls)
Aphrodite Macbain: but we still need to answer the question "why?"
druth Vlodovic: metaphorically too :)
Wol Euler listens.
druth Vlodovic: to look back, see where we have been which says who we are, and suggests where we are going
Aphrodite Macbain: druth you wanted to create a place where new people and old timers could feel welcome and could become engaged
druth Vlodovic: yes
druth Vlodovic: and learn a bit
Aphrodite Macbain: in learning about the history of PAB
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: snap
Aphrodite Macbain: So part of the ways of doing this was to think about the many aspects of PaB and sort them into categories. Under each category, people could contribute and could gain access to the material though links to images and the wiki
Aphrodite Macbain: Is that right druth?
druth Vlodovic: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: and right now you are collecting information, stories etc
druth Vlodovic: the idea is a sort of graphical index to the sim
druth Vlodovic: yes
druth Vlodovic: and a celebration of it's present and past
Aphrodite Macbain: people would click on something and get a menu
Aphrodite Macbain: of things to learn or categories to contribute to
Aphrodite Macbain: and you are trying to figure out how to create this menu
Aphrodite Macbain: along with 100 other things
druth Vlodovic: lol, something like
druth Vlodovic: originally it was made in response to somebody complaining about the clutter at the pavilions, and suggesting a display area for it all
druth Vlodovic: but the idea grew a bit
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: and you are not getting answers from people
druth Vlodovic: eh, I need to figure out my questions
druth Vlodovic: I say "what would you like to contribute" and they say "what do you want?"
druth Vlodovic: I'm the victim of fuzzy thinking :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: perhaps you need to give some guidelines?
druth Vlodovic: well, i put up my guidelines in the Google group
Bleu Oleander: size of photos
Bleu Oleander: notecards
druth Vlodovic: and lack understanding on why there has been no response
druth Vlodovic: details you mean
Bleu Oleander: yes
druth Vlodovic: what is obvious to one is incomprehensible to another. If I say "links" I think I am being clear
Bleu Oleander: so prims, notecards, textures ... form and size of what you need
Bleu Oleander: links on a notecard?
druth Vlodovic: I listed requests and topics separately
druth Vlodovic: perhaps a mistake

Bleu Oleander: how should people give these things to you?
druth Vlodovic: but each subject can likely support many types of media
druth Vlodovic: e-mail, preferably
druth Vlodovic: notecards work as well

Wol Euler: I think one reason for the lack of response is that it sounds like a huge amount of work for us
Aphrodite Macbain: through the Google group?
Bleu Oleander: so email photos, quotes etc.
druth Vlodovic: it was a big mail :/
Bleu Oleander: yes, sounds daunting
Wol Euler: starting with having to figure out what format you might want
Aphrodite Macbain: Could you break it down into 2 or 3 emails?
druth Vlodovic: you weren't supposed to feel required to consider contributing to anything other than one or two points

Zen Arado: 's current display-name is "Zen".
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at zen
Wol Euler: hello zen
druth Vlodovic: hi zen
Zen Arado: Hi all

Bleu Oleander: so you want photos or stories/quotes emailed to you?
Aphrodite Macbain: we are attempting to become satisfied Zen
druth Vlodovic: I've considered sending more specific requests one at a time, instead of grouping them
Wol Euler: that might be a good idea
druth Vlodovic: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: nods, good idea
Zen Arado: satisfaction is unsatisfying
Wol Euler: "please send me by e-mail or in SL your two favourite photos of or about PaB"
Wol Euler: is easy for us to imagine doing, and requires very little energy
Aphrodite Macbain: with a short story attached if you can
druth Vlodovic: 'k
Wol Euler: no, aph, not that :)
Wol Euler: once they are engaged with you already
Wol Euler: if people send a photo, ask them for a story
Wol Euler smiles.
Aphrodite Macbain: not some small form of explanation?
druth Vlodovic: foot in the door :)
Wol Euler: one step at a time
Wol Euler: right
Wol Euler: once you have got someone engaged, they will give you more
Bleu Oleander: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: druth is also looking for stories- what better way to prompt a story than with a photo?
Zen Arado: I don't have any history I delete everything
Wol Euler: aph, listen
Wol Euler: if you ask me to do a lot of work right off the top, I might not
Aphrodite Macbain: listens intently to Wol
Wol Euler: if you ask for one little simple thing, I might; and then another, and then another
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Wol Euler: keep the requests VERY specific and VERY short
Aphrodite Macbain: encourage a story if you can - that's all I was suggesting. Even 2 sentences would be good
Wol Euler: aph, you are missing my point
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: I know; start small: date? title? location?
druth Vlodovic: kiss
Catrinamonblue Resident: keep it simple simon :)
Aphrodite Macbain: stupid?

Bleu Oleander: could we also consider this a work in progress .... a start .... that will be added to even after the party
Wol Euler: of course
druth Vlodovic: it is planned to be an installation
Bleu Oleander: so not so urgent to have it finished by the party?
druth Vlodovic: I want it presentable
Aphrodite Macbain: a work in progress, yes.
Catrinamonblue Resident: she wants a good start though :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Bleu Oleander: ok .... a good start :)
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe focus on one aspect of it
druth Vlodovic: I hope we can get some storytellers in for the party, then we can record them and add it
Wol Euler: oh good idea
Catrinamonblue Resident: old timers reminiscing :)
druth Vlodovic: now if only we can figure out how to frame that request

Telling stories

Aphrodite Macbain: invite the story tellers to come and let them decide what they tell
Wol Euler smiles.
druth Vlodovic: "tell us something you feel is significant" will get blank looks
Aphrodite Macbain: tell s something that most excited you about PAB?
Wol Euler: tell us about the moment that you grokked it :)
druth Vlodovic: gather them around for tea and they might start talking on their own
Aphrodite Macbain: your most embarrassing moment..lol
Bleu Oleander: :) Wol
Aphrodite Macbain: tea is good
Wol Euler: actually that is a good idea
Aphrodite Macbain: a tea party around a fire
Wol Euler: get N people together early on, next month if possible, and just let them talk
Aphrodite Macbain: or have that part of the celebrations?
Wol Euler: take notes on what was said and use those as your prompt sheet for asking them for specific subjects

PaB Book of stories and images

Bleu Oleander: how best to record that?
Wol Euler: I assumed it would be chat
Bleu Oleander: yes, but what would that look like?
Wol Euler: else we can ask Eliza how she records and transcribes the La Sakura meetings
Bleu Oleander: a wiki?
Aphrodite Macbain: part of the chronicles?
Bleu Oleander: how to bring that into sl in someway
Wol Euler: media on a prim
Bleu Oleander: I think in a book
Wol Euler: link to the wiki
Wol Euler: or a book, good
Bleu Oleander: photo on one side .... story on opposite page?
Bleu Oleander: Sun does nice books
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Wol Euler: works for me :) and keeps the stories short so people won't be afraid of them
Aphrodite Macbain: so the photo will link to a story?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: no
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
Bleu Oleander: story will be on opposite page
Wol Euler: when you open the book you will see a photo and a text block
Wol Euler: just like RL books
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Wol Euler: there are publishing systems for making that here, fairly cheap too
Aphrodite Macbain: seems like that is linking photo and story
Bleu Oleander: everyone can have a copy of the book
Bleu Oleander: would be nice
Bleu Oleander: we really don't need another wiki
Aphrodite Macbain: who would make these books and how do they relate to druth's project?
Wol Euler: okay, if you want to call that a link, sure. I think Bleu and I thought you meant a web page link
Aphrodite Macbain: ah, no. I as agreeing with what was proposed.
druth Vlodovic: we don't need another wiki
druth Vlodovic: but a way to know certain things exist to find
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe I should have said "relate"

Wol Euler: hello korel, come on down :)
druth Vlodovic: and a way to find them
druth Vlodovic: hi korel
Bleu Oleander: hi Kori
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Korel :)
druth Vlodovic: that could be helpful
Aphrodite Macbain: hello Korel, we are talking about druth's 5th anniversary project
Korel Laloix: OK... smiles
Zen Arado: Hi Korel

Bleu Oleander: actually the "big book of PaB" would be fun
Wol Euler: yes, good idea :)
Bleu Oleander: visitors could look through it
Wol Euler: and a simple and straightforward organization
Bleu Oleander: so could even have wiki/web links on some pages
Wol Euler: easy to set out, easy to understand
Bleu Oleander: yes

Catrinamonblue Resident: i have to go now
Wol Euler: bye cat, take care
Zen Arado: bye Cat
druth Vlodovic: have fun cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: see you all later
Bleu Oleander: bye Cat

Aphrodite Macbain: maybe it is on the library shelves druth or on a coffee table
Zen Arado: bit laggy tonight?
Wol Euler: very
Aphrodite Macbain: very
Bleu Oleander: coffee table book
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bleu Oleander: big with nice pics
druth Vlodovic: I was thinking pictures on the coffee table and history on a bookshelf
Aphrodite Macbain: big and open with lots of pix
Aphrodite Macbain: and stories, and quotes
Bleu Oleander: yes
druth Vlodovic: and also slideshow viewers like those two
Aphrodite Macbain: nice idea druth
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: more pictures less text... we already have so much text on the wiki
Wol Euler: hello qt
Bleu Oleander: hiya qt
Qt Core: hi all
druth Vlodovic: hi QT
Zen Arado: Hi Qt

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt. We are talking about the 5th anniversary and druth's project - the museum of PAB

Slide shows and scripting

Aphrodite Macbain: will the slide shows run automatically or can the viewer manipulate them?
Wol Euler: automatic- manual control only works if there is one single person controlling it
druth Vlodovic: I prefer viewer controlled to automatic
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: is it complicated druth or does the viewer just click?
druth Vlodovic: it works differently if many people control it :)
druth Vlodovic: sigh, this is where learning scripting comes in, I have a menu maker
Bleu Oleander: Adams has a bunch in the museum
Wol Euler: no need to reinvent wheels
Qt Core: It’s strange- seeing all of you as clouds (new lag record i think)
druth Vlodovic: we are misting, influenced by the fountain
Korel Laloix: hyper lag

druth Vlodovic: I need scripts for doing slideshows, shouldn't be hard to get
Bleu Oleander: Storm already has those I think
Wol Euler: I can give you one right now
Aphrodite Macbain: I guess we're talking thru the drop
Zen Arado: I have one you can have
Wol Euler: no need to write it
druth Vlodovic: please wol
Bleu Oleander: ok c u all later :)
Bleu Oleander: take care
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Blue- thanks for dropping in
druth Vlodovic: have fun Bleu
Qt Core: bye blue
Aphrodite Macbain: how many scripts do you need druth?
Wol Euler: wrong question :)
Wol Euler: what do you want to do?
Wol Euler: then see how many scripts needed to make that work
druth Vlodovic: I need one for reading a notecard into local chat
Aphrodite Macbain: what do you need scripts for there druth?
druth Vlodovic: for connecting to a webpage
Wol Euler: I have half of the notecard reader in this Listener already, I can give you that this week
druth Vlodovic: ok
druth Vlodovic: I am hoping to do a "tell me a story" fire, that will read stories from inside it to local chat
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: nice idea
druth Vlodovic: I think I have scripts for the other things I want
druth Vlodovic: unless you want me to make the ghost pavilion into a colour changing dance ball, which I have considered

Dance balls

Wol Euler: dance balls are tricky, druth, there#s a reason why they are so expensive
Wol Euler: I'd rather buy you one than try to write my own from scratch
druth Vlodovic: I made a dance ball for the last years anniversary, have to remember how

Qt Core: i just come here, so i missed some for of presentation of the project but i still want to express a concern: it should be informative for external people too, not just some remembering of old times only pabbers would enjoy
druth Vlodovic: yes
Wol Euler: true, qt
Aphrodite Macbain: thank you Qt.

druth Vlodovic: people, i have two sort-of stories from dakini already
druth Vlodovic: I see three purposes
druth Vlodovic: 1. history for pabbers
druth Vlodovic: 2. graphical index for sim information
druth Vlodovic: 3. an introduction to the sim
Aphrodite Macbain: what is a graphical index and what sim information?
Aphrodite Macbain: you mean images?
Aphrodite Macbain: like the masks?
druth Vlodovic: you click images to get links
Aphrodite Macbain: graphical index=masks?
druth Vlodovic: part of finding something is knowing it exists
Qt Core: subtitle for the last two points: where kindness meets weird ;-)
Wol Euler: yep
Wol Euler: heheheh, very good qt
Wol Euler: we can use that L)
druth Vlodovic: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Zen Arado: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: plenty of weird
druth Vlodovic: for instance, there are 12 blogs listed in the wiki
druth Vlodovic: if I can find an image that says "Blogs" to people they will be able to find the list easily
Aphrodite Macbain: an ICON representing a blog?
druth Vlodovic: something like
Aphrodite Macbain: You already have five masks that represent different aspects of PAB
Wol Euler: ((six minutes to Berti))
druth Vlodovic: I'm afraid it will be a bit cryptic simply because people find me a bit cryptic, even when I'm trying to be clear :-/
Wol Euler: no worries, explain again
Wol Euler: or get somebody to help you explain :)
Wol Euler: the world is full of editors
Wol Euler: what we are doing right now is editing your idea :)
Aphrodite Macbain: That's why it might be handy to have an intro area to tell people what's happening- orient them
druth Vlodovic: I'm going to give a message that just says "touch everything"
Wol Euler grins.
Aphrodite Macbain: wash you hands first?
druth Vlodovic: maybe a soap dispenser
Aphrodite Macbain: Happy face= silly stories
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Wol Euler: I think we should avoid diluting the presentation with too much cleverness
Wol Euler: people should look at the images, not at the button to show them
Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV
druth Vlodovic: nah,give me all your cleverness, it'll be up to me to simplify it
druth Vlodovic: I agree
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
Wol Euler: it's time for Berti's meditation
Wol Euler: Druth, I hope this has helped clarify things :)
druth Vlodovic: if you see a book you expect written things
druth Vlodovic: it has helped
Zen Arado: au revoir
Wol Euler: good!
Aphrodite Macbain: I have to go. Thanks everyone for coming
Wol Euler: bye for now, enjoy the evening
druth Vlodovic: if you have any other ideas you know how to contact me
druth Vlodovic: have fun :)
Wol Euler: will do
Qt Core: bye, have fun
--BELL--
Wol Euler: and if you have questions about scripting or building, please ask
druth Vlodovic: ty :)
druth Vlodovic: they are off to meditate on a mountaintop
druth Vlodovic: I'm off to do pizza
druth Vlodovic: I can give you a lm there if you like
Qt Core: no, ty, sleeptime
druth Vlodovic: 'k
druth Vlodovic: good to see you again :)
druth Vlodovic: bye
Qt Core: have fun making and eating your pizza
druth Vlodovic: I will :)