2014.02.02 07:00 - Her Deception

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
--BELL--
Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Bleu Oleander: morning Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Good morning Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: how's the world where u r ?
Catrinamonblue Resident: white :) we got a lot of snow last night
Bleu Oleander: hard to imagine its so sunny and nice where i am :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: do you like the snow?
Bleu Oleander: i used to love it :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: When it's like today yes :) it's warm enough out to enjoy but when it's -35C wind chill then no :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Morning :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eliza :)
Bleu Oleander: still enjoying your mermaidness?
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Bleu Oleander: hey Aggers :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aggers :)
Agatha Macbeth: Caught you today Bleuji :)
Eliza Madrigal: I am... this mermaidness especially, since the moving into walking mode is so easy :))
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Dogs will have to wait hehe
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Lizzy ♥ and Catty ♥
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: hey so I've been listening to a coursera course on morality
Eliza Madrigal: am sort of hung up on Scottish terriers at the moment ^^.. good that I have a few months to choose
Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
Agatha Macbeth: Woof
Bleu Oleander: Paul Bloom
Bleu Oleander: but listening to it keeping in mind the movie Her
Bleu Oleander: very interesting
Catrinamonblue Resident: wishes there were more hours in the day to listen to things
Bleu Oleander: morality vis a vie OS's
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yes who shortened our days? :(
Eliza Madrigal: that was the gap between them as much as body... or er.. same gap?
Agatha Macbeth: When I was young they lasted forever
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: the gaps start appearing everywhere
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we need the gaps to breathe :p
Bleu Oleander: seems more empty
Bleu Oleander: watching the movie its easy to anthropomorphize
Eliza Madrigal: yes very
Bleu Oleander: really thinking about empathy and compassion .... seemed a lot harder
Eliza Madrigal: that's its gift
Bleu Oleander: gift? say more
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe that's something that needs to be learned
Eliza Madrigal: well it is a superficial enough vehicle to insert oneself into easily and test drive
Agatha Macbeth: Seems E & C don't come naturally to most people
Bleu Oleander: is the OS designed to deceive us in a way?
Eliza Madrigal: not that the film is superficial... quite daring
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: but points to superficiality
Bleu Oleander: inherent in tech?
Eliza Madrigal: we come with all kinds of mechanisms to deciseve ourselves actually... lol
Eliza Madrigal: deceive*
Bleu Oleander smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Bleu Oleander: I remember how empty it felt when Theodore couldn't log in
Eliza Madrigal nods... his tripping...frantic
Bleu Oleander: yes
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: seemed more like an addiction
Catrinamonblue Resident: first love usually is
Eliza Madrigal: but I wouldn't call that empty... more, the feeling when one is in deep and something happens to make one realize it
Bleu Oleander: but in deep in a good way or merely deceived?
Eliza Madrigal: and then one questions... "Can I do this?" or "Does it even matter if I think I can, it is done..."
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure
Eliza Madrigal: one quesion you threw out there stayed with me, Bleu, which was "what are the minimum requirements for a relationship?"
Bleu Oleander: feels like a clever trick in some ways
Bleu Oleander: yes
Agatha Macbeth grins
Eliza Madrigal: sure... but isn't that how one feels after a breakup in RL?
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Good question!
Eliza Madrigal: "I was tricked!"
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Bleu Oleander: one could ask where should I direct my "relationship" energies?
Eliza Madrigal: if we were linear, that would make sense... we could do a scan ahead of time, before we 'choose' feelings
Bleu Oleander: I think a breakup in rl is much different
Agatha Macbeth: Quantum relationships ;)
Eliza Madrigal: capactiy? no... okay... don't fall in love til such n such upgrade
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Agatha Macbeth: Like LL
Eliza Madrigal: yes... "we are not programmed to respond to that question"
Agatha Macbeth: 'You can't love me until you have version x'
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: and mesh
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Bleu Oleander: well, it takes a lot of energy to be in a relationship
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh yes
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe that's why I avoid em heh
Bleu Oleander: limited in some sense
Eliza Madrigal: so only teenagers should do it? ^^
Agatha Macbeth: They have the energy but not the experience poor things
Bleu Oleander: so if we invest that energy in a relationship with a computer is that a compassionate way to be?
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: would you save a drowning iPhone?
Agatha Macbeth: Depends how much I spent on it :p
Eliza Madrigal: haha... maybe the mac
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth dives in after her iPhone
Agatha Macbeth: Come back!
Bleu Oleander: interesting to watch this class on morality substituting OS's in the conversation!
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think the question is as cut and dry now... like SL... if one falls in love with someone without a socalled real body, to one's experience, it isn't a computer
Catrinamonblue Resident: something I wonder is would such a relationship be sustainable in the long run... Theo fell in love yes, we all do from time to time but that doesn't always mean the relationship is good or can last
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Bleu Oleander: hmmmm, sl is real bodies though
Bleu Oleander: in sl we sense the real behind the virtual
Eliza Madrigal: yes.. we do have experiential bodies as avies, but we're also conscious of our other lives going on
Eliza Madrigal: other bodies we have
Bleu Oleander: how silly if we just fell in love with the pixels!
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: at least from my point of view
Eliza Madrigal: was he thinking he was avoiding relationship and complications when he got in with her... but then it all surprised him
Agatha Macbeth: The pixels can be nice tho ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: I didn't think so Eliza
Bleu Oleander: I think the tech confused him
Bleu Oleander: sucked him in
Eliza Madrigal: it takes a while in the film before he acknowledges it as a serious relationship
Catrinamonblue Resident: do any of us actually go through a thought process when we fall in love? Somehow I don't think so
Bleu Oleander: was his relationship serious?
Agatha Macbeth: I don't associate 'thought process' with 'in love' at all! <chortle>
Bleu Oleander: if ultimately a deception?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think it was a deception
Agatha Macbeth: In fact the exact opposite
Eliza Madrigal: for either of them... something different...new
Catrinamonblue Resident: to him the relationship was serious so we have to take it as serious I think
Bleu Oleander: well not for Sam of course
Eliza Madrigal: but Cat's question about sustainability is what the film dropped out of
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Bleu Oleander: in what way was it not a deception?
Eliza Madrigal: looking through her eyes at the world, he was a live again, after being flat
Bleu Oleander: wasn't it a program designed to mimic a human?
Eliza Madrigal: 'eyes'
Eliza Madrigal: not sure... it ws an OS designed to evolve like a human might
Bleu Oleander: well, isn't an OS a program?
Bleu Oleander: not really a human?
Eliza Madrigal: is intelligence human only?
Bleu Oleander: the deception is its clever enough to trick us
Bleu Oleander: well intelligence means many things
Eliza Madrigal nods
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: human intel is much diff than computer intel
Catrinamonblue Resident: but computer intel is getting closer and closer to mimicking human, so where is the line between what is mimicked and what becomes real.... does it become real
Eliza Madrigal: it is soo similar to the 'what is life' line regarding other planets
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Bleu Oleander: life line?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: say more re planets?
Eliza Madrigal: we choose to draw the line
Bleu Oleander: tech is a human designed system
Eliza Madrigal: well we talked about the search for the origins of life, and astrobiology... and I think it was an article you shared, of a physicist saying that at some level it is arbitrary
Bleu Oleander: hmmm, I don't think arbitrary, but yes we have declared some matter life and some not life
Eliza Madrigal: we are looking for certain qualities, because they are qualities 'we' see ourselves as needing
Eliza Madrigal: but we have to leave open the idea that that's not all there is
Agatha Macbeth: True that
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Bleu Oleander: right deff don't know all there is
Eliza Madrigal: so hard to answer whether what the characters had is 'love'... maybe we've not scratched the surface of lofe
Eliza Madrigal: *love
Bleu Oleander: so its an ongoing process of determining what we consider to be life based on criteria we say
Eliza Madrigal: not loaf, lol
Agatha Macbeth: Use your loaf
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: when I was a teen, I was completely devastated in love... pined for 10 years! now I look back and think huh?
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh, happens
Bleu Oleander: can call it love but that does widen the def of love to include programed love
Eliza Madrigal: that wasn't love... but I 'knew' for along time it was... defined my idea of what love was and ordered my world
Bleu Oleander: I think that was love
Bleu Oleander: a diff kind maybe
Bleu Oleander: but valid then
Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes valid, but just a slice
Bleu Oleander: isn't it always just a slice?
Eliza Madrigal: so maybe that's the optimism of the film "now we know how"
Bleu Oleander: there's no right love, wrong love, just love, only love, is there?
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Aphie
Bleu Oleander: love is an emotion on a continuum?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aph
Eliza Madrigal: I'll work on that a while... maybe another 50 years
Bleu Oleander: hey Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: 's current display-name is "Aph".
Agatha Macbeth: Wow, insomnia? :p
Eliza Madrigal: brb going to send guardian notice
Aphrodite Macbain: morning!
Agatha Macbeth: Good to see you up bright and early
Bleu Oleander: we're talking about love and OS's
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: love hurts....(song I can't remember any more of it)
Catrinamonblue Resident: but find that it's true
Agatha Macbeth: Jim Capaldi?
Aphrodite Macbain: coffee helps :-)
Agatha Macbeth: It does Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: ah love!
Agatha Macbeth: L'amore
Catrinamonblue Resident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ7Myy7Hpxw
Eliza Madrigal: love love love
Aphrodite Macbain: a mysterious thing
Agatha Macbeth: Apparently it's all you need
Aphrodite Macbain: ,... that and coffee
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Aphrodite Macbain: I was trying to remember where the balloon is that takes us to the theatre
Bleu Oleander: right near here
Aphrodite Macbain: It has been so long.
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno, I always TP
Eliza Madrigal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0LAs7X5ybE
Eliza Madrigal: I have a lm, one moment
Eliza Madrigal: it is just next to us
Aphrodite Macbain: and I wasn't sure which molecule we were heading to
Agatha Macbeth: The theatre one I thought
Aphrodite Macbain: since the last time we all went up was at the anniversary party last april
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles at Eliza's song
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: a little early here for that vid :)
Bleu Oleander: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: then I have an lm. I just didnt like the idea of being in the threare when everyone else as at the party place
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Agatha Macbeth: We'll work it out no doubt
Aphrodite Macbain: alone... in the theatre... with all its ghosts
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Xira :)
Bleu Oleander: actually that's an interesting thought about time zones and being influenced by diff moods participating in a conversation
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Xira
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri :))
Bleu Oleander: hi Xiri
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Xira
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone! :)
Agatha Macbeth: I have to keep expanding my camera angle to get evryone in :p
Eliza Madrigal: good feeling :))
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: tonglen
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: and sips
Agatha Macbeth: Tonwhat?
Aphrodite Macbain: glen
Agatha Macbeth: Ford?
Agatha Macbeth: Campbell?
Eliza Madrigal: haha... a meditation about love ... "metta" prob would have been more apt for the line
Agatha Macbeth: Metta is better
Aphrodite Macbain: a form of meditation that takes in everyone eventually
Eliza Madrigal: even those, and especially those, one wants to leave out
Agatha Macbeth: Oh that's what I need
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: a form of expanded empathy
Agatha Macbeth: Didn't know there is a balloon to the theatre
Bleu Oleander: even OS's
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Aphrodite Macbain: even OS's?
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Aphrodite Macbain: hmm
Bleu Oleander: OS empathy
Bleu Oleander: hmmm
Agatha Macbeth ponders a meditating OS
Aphrodite Macbain: sempathy
Eliza Madrigal: Oh... one other thought about that surrogate. it actually is almost a classic 'threesome' scene... where it isn't quite right but a couple takes in another to try to reignite their spark
Aphrodite Macbain: nods, I suppose so
Catrinamonblue Resident: yuck.... didn't like that scene at all
Aphrodite Macbain: I think the OS would have the hardest time
Eliza Madrigal: and he wasn't on board from the beginning really
Agatha Macbeth: Menag á trois?
Agatha Macbeth: +e
Aphrodite Macbain: troise?
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bleu Oleander: well it was more like splitting the OS into 2
Agatha Macbeth prods Aph
Aphrodite Macbain giggles
Eliza Madrigal: interesting, nods
Eliza Madrigal: two breathers
Bleu Oleander: yeah
Bleu Oleander: well, lots more to talk about re her
Bleu Oleander: shall we make our way to molecule?

Agatha Macbeth: Seems like it
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: balloon time!
Bleu Oleander: kk
Aphrodite Macbain: Iam trying to think of a particular one to discuss at 1PM
Agatha Macbeth: How many will fit?
Bleu Oleander: lots
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Aphrodite Macbain: lets find out
Eliza Madrigal: at least we</chortle>