The Guardian for this meeting was Agatha Macbeth. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.

Bruce Mowbray: 's current display-name is "Bruce".
Lila Sideways: 's current display-name is "Lila".
Zon Kwan: hi bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, zon. Heya, Lila.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, aggers.
Lila Sideways: hello all
Zon Kwan: hi Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Howdy doody
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I thought that was the other Lila
Agatha Macbeth: Have you been here brfore?
Agatha Macbeth wonders if she has crashed
Lila Sideways: zon, have we been here before?
Zon Kwan: yes
Agatha Macbeth: I know Zon has
Lila Sideways: he takes me places
Bruce Mowbray ponders whether he's been HERE before....
Lila Sideways: i just obey
Bruce Mowbray: or whether it has become a different "here."
Zon Kwan: what is here ?
Bruce Mowbray: (or a different me.)
Agatha Macbeth: You'll be popular in SL then
Zon Kwan: who am i?
Agatha Macbeth: With all the Gor stuff
Zon Kwan: hi Wol
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Wollie ♥
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Wol!
Wol Euler: evening all!
Bruce Mowbray: Have you been here before, Wol?
Wol Euler: apparently I came just in time
Agatha Macbeth: For what?
Wol Euler waves a small flag with the word "joke" printed on it.
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Wol Euler: nice to see everyone again!
Wol Euler: Bruce, I'm not sure whether I've been here before. Does time exist? *can* I have been anywhere "before"?
Bruce Mowbray: Good to see you, too, Wol.
Bruce Mowbray: and all the others here who have been here before.... or claim to have.
Agatha Macbeth: Lizzie! ♥
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eliza!
Bruce Mowbray: ♥ ♥
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Zon Kwan: hi ELiza
Bruce Mowbray: Have you been here before, Eliza!?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi! :))
Wol Euler: hello eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I've been exactly here before, no
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Exactly you, or exactly here, or exactly before?
Zon Kwan: every moment is new
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: ahh yes!
Zon Kwan: every place is new
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: and THAT is surely a WOW experience, if there ever was one....
Agatha Macbeth: No braces this week?
Eliza Madrigal: :) not this week... next week again... although today I could have kept doing a thousand things and decided... darnit.. going in :)
Eliza Madrigal: What is your WOW Bruce?
Agatha Macbeth: That's the spirit!
Agatha Macbeth: Enough of this waking up at 2AM
Wol Euler: yeah
Eliza Madrigal: sigh...yes
Bruce Mowbray: WOW is the realization - no, not that.... WOW is the experience of newness in every, every moment.
Agatha Macbeth: Aww *hug*
Agatha Macbeth: Not World of Warcraft then?
Eliza Madrigal stops to WOW
Bruce Mowbray: For WOW's, one only needs to be HERE.
Bruce Mowbray: The NOW part seems to take care of itself.
Agatha Macbeth: Or Her
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Bruce Mowbray: or HER.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: Play it again Sam
Bruce Mowbray loves his OS, too.
Agatha Macbeth watches Blub swim through the flag
Eliza Madrigal: Blub is a Master
Agatha Macbeth: Talented fish that
Bruce Mowbray notices that Lila seems to have become suddenly silent. Thinks she moight be having non-verbal WOW experiences.
Bruce Mowbray: might*
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Lila, nice to see you again
Bruce Mowbray: ♥
Agatha Macbeth: Might is right
Eliza Madrigal: postverbal
--BELL--1315
Agatha Macbeth: Did you enjoy Aph's Darwin thing Liz?
Eliza Madrigal: very much so... did you listen?
Agatha Macbeth: Nope
Agatha Macbeth: That's why I wondered :p
Eliza Madrigal grins
Bruce Mowbray: I watched the entire thing.
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent.
Bruce Mowbray: Then I watched the presentation about Sex and War....
Bruce Mowbray: also excellent.
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Bruce Mowbray: (I ended up buying their book, in fact.)
Eliza Madrigal: at first it was like many other talks, and I 'like' Pinker but am not really drawn to listening to him that much... so I was happy when it picked up about 20 minutes in
Agatha Macbeth: I'll stick with the first part
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Both are brilliant... and also connected.
Bruce Mowbray my typist had never seen or heard pinker speak,
Bruce Mowbray: and since he's currently reading one of his books,
Eliza Madrigal: Darwin is so characatured (sp?) and demonized
Bruce Mowbray: it was good to see the dude.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: "The Stuff of Thought."
Eliza Madrigal: what is ironic about people trying to take evolution out of schools is that it isn't really taught in schools
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Eliza Madrigal: there is this basic idea, but the beauty of natural selection is never unpacked
Agatha Macbeth: If they take it out what will they replace it with?
Eliza Madrigal: same thing they'll replace english math and history with :P
Agatha Macbeth: Which is?
Eliza Madrigal: fox news?
Zon Kwan: darwin was right about method, but he didnt explain the cause of mutations
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Agatha Macbeth: You might as well say Facebook
Bruce Mowbray: Lots and lots of photographs of people riding dinosaurs.
Agatha Macbeth: Is this some new Republican initiative?
Eliza Madrigal: there is a lot left unfinished in the theory but that's a great place to stay "incomplete"
Bruce Mowbray ponders the cause of mutations.
Bruce Mowbray: Can you say more, please?
Lila Sideways: good nite, must go..
Agatha Macbeth: Bye
Wol Euler: bye lila, take care
Bruce Mowbray: G'night dear, Lila.
Eliza Madrigal: nite Lila
Lila Sideways: bye all
Bruce Mowbray: ♥
Zon Kwan: waves
Eliza Madrigal waves
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Zon-ji!
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Zon, behave yourself
Bruce Mowbray: awwwww. Now why did you have to say that?
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Agatha Macbeth: Killjoy moi
Bruce Mowbray: How are we supposed to get mutations if he behaves himself?
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Wol Euler chuckles.
Agatha Macbeth: Think I prefer the other Lila

Things now start to settle down a bit

Bruce Mowbray: kk, since we're all guardians...
Bruce Mowbray: may I ask a question, please?
Agatha Macbeth: No
Eliza Madrigal: we can be guardians... just for one day...
Bruce Mowbray: ha!
Agatha Macbeth dies from laughing....
Wol Euler: of course
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Eliza Madrigal leans in
Agatha Macbeth: Ahem sorry
Bruce Mowbray: (back!)
Bruce Mowbray: No need to be sry.
Bruce Mowbray: Here it is: (tada)
Bruce Mowbray: My session on Saturday will be a theme session.
Agatha Macbeth waits
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Bruce Mowbray: and the theme will be "dropping" in PaB sessions.
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Bruce Mowbray: I want to send out an email to all pabbers.....
Bruce Mowbray: that will prompt them to this,
Bruce Mowbray: but also to ask (for the session - not to be answered in email)...
Bruce Mowbray: just to prepare them....
Bruce Mowbray: "What happens when you 'drop'?"
Bruce Mowbray: What do you think?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Agatha Macbeth: Gravity
Bruce Mowbray: We cna hope!
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Eliza Madrigal: I love when people share from their own experience, so am fond of anything along those lines
Bruce Mowbray: That is PRECISELY what I am hoping for, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: would provoke us to begin to notice how why if we are dropping
Eliza Madrigal: what it means for us
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: and there are NO wrong answers, ....
Eliza Madrigal: or whether we don't relate to dropping... which some will say probably... but then say what they do relate to hopefully
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: how could there be... if own experiences?
Bruce Mowbray: (unless folks answer dishonestly....)
Bruce Mowbray: Like pretending to be in samadhie when actually re-filling their tea cups.
Eliza Madrigal: dropper by proxy
Agatha Macbeth: Here comes Bleuji :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bruce Mowbray: samadhi*
Agatha Macbeth: Lundi
Eliza Madrigal: pretty funny to think of what pretending to be in samadhi would look like
Agatha Macbeth: Baron samedhi?
Eliza Madrigal: in SL
Bruce Mowbray: Oh! I have known lots of RL folks who pretend they've been there.
Bruce Mowbray: (or so it seems.)
Agatha Macbeth: Been where?
Bruce Mowbray: to Samadhi!
Agatha Macbeth: Oh it's a place?
Eliza Madrigal: samadhi place
Agatha Macbeth: Aww she's gone again
Bruce Mowbray: errrr. well, to hear them talk, one would suspect so.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Bleu!
Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi
--BELL--1330
Bruce Mowbray: And who's to say that Samadhi is NOT a place.
Bruce Mowbray: opps.
Bruce Mowbray: sry,
Bruce Mowbray: dropping....
Eliza Madrigal: It is very complicated to try to describe an experience that you really don't understand... I think it is likely people believe they are experiencing what they say they are experiencing
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks, I'm none the wiser :p
Wol Euler: like the dream-making-itself-internally-consistent effect .)
Agatha Macbeth: Yay here she is!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bruce Mowbray: Here comes Bleu-ji again. She will straighten us out.
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu!
Agatha Macbeth: Non-crashy I hope
Wol Euler: hello bleu
Bleu Oleander: hey all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :) internet giving trouble?
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Bleuji
Bleu Oleander: still yes!
Eliza Madrigal: grr
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Bleu Oleander: still a rod through your head lol
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Bruce Mowbray looks for GRRRR!" animation.
Agatha Macbeth: Stewart?
Eliza Madrigal: you should see the plank in my eye
Eliza Madrigal: to Bleu's view
Agatha Macbeth dies from laughing....
Eliza Madrigal: lollol
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Bleu Oleander: lol
Bruce Mowbray: (a sympathetic death, on my part).
Agatha Macbeth: That stopped the fish
Bruce Mowbray: No, I try to stop the fish for every drop.

Eliza Madrigal: I've been asking myself if that's life's way of telling me to apologize to my mother and start speaking to her again :P
Agatha Macbeth: Now we need some loaves
Bruce Mowbray: Then I forget to start them again!
Bruce Mowbray: Here they go.
Wol Euler: hmmm
Agatha Macbeth: On yer fins...
Eliza Madrigal: (ie plank in my own eye)
Wol Euler: try it and see, eliza ;)
Agatha Macbeth: Eye eye
Eliza Madrigal: am learning to draw boundaries
Eliza Madrigal: not going smoothly :)
Bruce Mowbray: Ohhhhh.
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bruce Mowbray: What are boundaries for, anyway?
Agatha Macbeth: To bind us
Bruce Mowbray: You are INFINITE, my dear!
Eliza Madrigal: to draw a more genuine way of relating..
Wol Euler: somebody I know who will not be named or even given an anonym here, is going through a crisis at the moment because her mother is dying and she (friend) has just understood how much was left unsaid and now perhaps may never be sayable
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: gets serious and listens, for a change.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Wol.
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you for bringing me back to earth.
Wol Euler: sorry to burst your balloon :(
Bruce Mowbray: np.
Bruce Mowbray: What you have said is true.
Eliza Madrigal: well, in my case the argument started because she uses the threat of her death to manipulate me and has since I was a small child... so each experience is very unique
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: agreed
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Eliza Madrigal: I finally told her that it was a mean thing to do
Bruce Mowbray: There's that EXPERIENCE thing again!
Wol Euler: and in fairness my friend does appear to have had a pretty nasty childhood, and have only just figured that out
Eliza Madrigal: and stop
Wol Euler listens.
Bruce Mowbray: (oooops. NO flag!)
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Is all this going in the log? {just asking}
Eliza Madrigal: not to bring the session into strange territory... but I guess I do see many things as "signs" sometimes.. or at least question them
Bruce Mowbray: HA HA!
Bruce Mowbray ponders the BLOG as an experience in itself.
Wol Euler: mine is OK
Bruce Mowbray: mine is also OK.
Agatha Macbeth nods
Eliza Madrigal: better not for my one line... the rest is okay
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: (except for MISSPELLINGS!) darn it!
Eliza Madrigal: what I want to express is that sometimes one draws boundaries because of love...
Bruce Mowbray: ?me typist is anal-compulsive about spellings, you understand.
Eliza Madrigal: because they want to bring more of themself into the relationship
Bruce Mowbray: and /me typist (MY typist!)
Wol Euler: perhaps things look like signs because part of us wants to bring something to the attention of the rest of us
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Eliza Madrigal: yes that's an interesting notion
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: like when we want to buy a car and we see a certain one everywhere
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: HEY! Here's Qt!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt
Agatha Macbeth: Buona sera QT
Bleu Oleander: hi Qt
Qt Core: Hi all!
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt!
Wol Euler: hello qt
Eliza Madrigal: Bruce, I'd suggest using notices btw, for Saturday
Eliza Madrigal: not just emails
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, and thanks.
Wol Euler: yes, definitely
Agatha Macbeth: Yes and hope they get noticed
Bruce Mowbray: I was going to get one out today but procrastrinated.
Eliza Madrigal: some put off emails but are good about notices
Eliza Madrigal: ah, thanks
Bruce Mowbray: I will get one out tonight...
Agatha Macbeth: Hope you cleaned it up
Bruce Mowbray: and another perhaps either tomorrow or Saturday morning.
Bruce Mowbray: An excellent suggestion.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks.
Bruce Mowbray: both message to Pabbers through SL, and also through email.
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bruce Mowbray: (Hopes that PaB is not at a crisis-point. . . . and looks forward to talking about "drops."
Bruce Mowbray: away from keyboard for a sec.
Agatha Macbeth: Crisis what crisis...
Bleu Oleander: perhaps a crisitunity?
Eliza Madrigal: haha, YES
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal snorts
Agatha Macbeth: Said the man in the deckchair
Eliza Madrigal: something about dropping and the idea of the black box, goes together for me
--BELL--1345
Agatha Macbeth: Is that the one with the cat in it?
Bruce Mowbray hopes Eliza will remind us about the "black box..." and also tell us what her reminder is.
Bleu Oleander: 'splain that?
Eliza Madrigal: heheh....
Bruce Mowbray: ty, Bleu!
Eliza Madrigal: is that said like Ricky Ricardo?
Bleu Oleander: welcome Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) Welcome, , , ,
Agatha Macbeth: Like Rrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiico maybe
Bleu Oleander: as in some splainin' to do lol
Bruce Mowbray: Crisitunity is GOOD!
Bleu Oleander: yes!

Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I experience dropping the way that the radiolab episode talked about the blackbox ...of mystery, one could say. I experience it as a slight but significant leap of trust
Wol Euler listens.
Eliza Madrigal: detached from trying to figure something out
Bruce Mowbray also listens.
Eliza Madrigal: just a kind of... being willing to lose whatever thought is going on, or etc...
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: something implicitly trusted to work
Agatha Macbeth: Is it like samadhi?
Bleu Oleander: is dropping an exercise or intended to be a permanent reconfiguring of being?
Wol Euler: leap of faith, really :)
Wol Euler: mu :)
Agatha Macbeth: Boing
Bruce Mowbray: I don't think it is like samadhi, actually.
Agatha Macbeth: Whew
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes.. see I wasn't so loopy... and actually I think samadhi can be a spontaneous response to dropping
Bruce Mowbray: Samadhi "happens."
Bruce Mowbray: Faith requires a leap.
Bleu Oleander: what is samadhi?
Agatha Macbeth ponders Liz not being loopy
Eliza Madrigal: the practice of dropping kind of allows for samadhi
Eliza Madrigal: a clearing ...
Bruce Mowbray: yes, agrees with Liz on that.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we need to give Bleu the link too :p
Eliza Madrigal: I've only got one tangible story to offer with regard to samadhi and it doesn't sound fancy enough for a religious book...
Wol Euler: (sorry, RL intervenes, brb)
Eliza Madrigal: k, Wol
Bruce Mowbray: would love to hear your story, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: I was waiting for my daughter in DSW... a very contemplative place...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: bye for now, Wol!
Eliza Madrigal: she was roaming all the aisles and looking for shoes...
Eliza Madrigal: and I noticed that I wasn't thinking
Eliza Madrigal: when I noticed, then I began thinking again
Eliza Madrigal: and that seems like it is a split second... but my experience of it was far more expansive
Eliza Madrigal: and restful
Eliza Madrigal: thinking in the sense of looping thoughts...
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: there was a different flavor of thinking
Bruce Mowbray: (or perhaps no-thinking....?)
Eliza Madrigal: but then I am like "look..no thinking" which kind of half brought me out
Wol Euler: like turning off the mind but remaining conscious
Bruce Mowbray: ahh! snap!
Eliza Madrigal: yes... and no sense of being 'away' anywhere
Eliza Madrigal: more connected, if anything
Agatha Macbeth: Use the force Luke
Eliza Madrigal: now I never apologize for going to DSW, ollol
Wol Euler: but connected to everything rather than to a thing.
Bruce Mowbray: This experience seems, to me, very much like "Equinimity" --- no agenda, no preference, no prejudice.
Eliza Madrigal nods nods
Eliza Madrigal: and as storm would say "unbidden"
Bruce Mowbray: (Wonderful expression.)

Bruce Mowbray makes note to send out notices to all Pabbers tonight -- and also in email.....
Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much Bruce... you're so good about these things
Bruce Mowbray: ha!
Bruce Mowbray: No really!
Agatha Macbeth: He's good about most things
Eliza Madrigal: I'm doing my best to make sure to be there... sometimes 4pm (for me) on a weekend is hard
Bruce Mowbray: Thant's why I have to make a note!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: A hard weekend is good to find
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: every festival in miami takes place within the span of 4 weeks feb/march it feels
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: "Why don't ya pick me up and smoke me sometime?"
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: before the hurricanes start?
Eliza Madrigal: heheh, yes
Agatha Macbeth: Are you a kipper?
Bruce Mowbray: Eliza is a KEEPER!
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Bruce Mowbray: touche!
Eliza Madrigal: if you drop me..what would happen...
Agatha Macbeth: I'd cry
Bruce Mowbray: no chance of that, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: aw... maybe I'd come back in another form
Agatha Macbeth: A new mermaid
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: My typist is poking me now. I must be off to scrape up supper.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, good people!
Agatha Macbeth: Scrapey time
Bleu Oleander: c ya Bruce
Qt Core: bye Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: can we teach your typist to cook more gently?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce
Wol Euler: heheheh
Agatha Macbeth: Mr Scrape
Eliza Madrigal: sounds like quite a taskmaster
--BELL--1400
Agatha Macbeth: onigokko

I do a solo sprint

Bleu Oleander: LOL
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: oh, what a sad result
Eliza Madrigal: unprepared
Eliza Madrigal: terrible guardians we are
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Bleu Oleander: a solo onigokko
Wol Euler: stop
Wol Euler: onigokko
Wol Euler: better!
Agatha Macbeth: Don't drop it Liz!
Eliza Madrigal drops into fountain
Eliza Madrigal: stop
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: Can't beat an onigokkoing mermaid

Eliza Madrigal: I'll call my mom
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: don't think I would have if I didn't come
Agatha Macbeth: Call her what?
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Wol Euler: good for you
Wol Euler: and perhaps for you both
Agatha Macbeth: I need a ouija board to call mine
Wol Euler: awwwww
Eliza Madrigal: or heart phone
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Atom heart mother
Eliza Madrigal: the challenge is to make peace and still keep integrity.. tricky sometimes
Agatha Macbeth: Bit like the UN
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: drop integrity and make peace :)
Eliza Madrigal: well keeping peace has kept me keeping distance too
Agatha Macbeth: Make tea not integrity
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: what is integrity and should it ever be dropped?
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Eliza Madrigal: that is what I'm learning
Wol Euler: it does shade into pride and stubbornness, doesn't it? :)
Eliza Madrigal: not always...
Wol Euler: indeeed
Bleu Oleander: can though
Wol Euler: nothing is ever "always"
Eliza Madrigal: if one has been manipulated and maneuvered themselves around that instead of facing down honestly... or facing up...
Bleu Oleander: needs boundaries :)
Wol Euler: but there's a border there, that one needs to be aware of
Eliza Madrigal: then it can be a brave and loving thing to do to say "I am not willing to relate this way anymore..."
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but not close the door, ever (I feel)
Eliza Madrigal: but yes maybe important to conjure more generosity of spirit than I have been... life is good to me
Agatha Macbeth: So it should be
Bleu Oleander: try to see from others viewpoint ... empathy
Eliza Madrigal nods... what I've not been doing I think... for a long time.. is including myself in my compassion
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: so forgivness and empathy for others sometimes has meant to quiet my own voice
Bleu Oleander: well, isn't dropping about that? lessening the sense of a strong self?
Eliza Madrigal: well I think it evolves
Eliza Madrigal: I would have answered differently a year ago
Bleu Oleander: how so?
Wol Euler listens.
Eliza Madrigal: I'm very inspired by chan/zen schools of thought, and non-self, or non fixed identity .... do think in our individualistic society and the way many/most are raised it is quite a revelation to think that way
Eliza Madrigal: and yet there are near enemies... or posers of what it really means, I think
Eliza Madrigal: and I've found myself susceptible to that... similar to the positive thinking article you shared bleu,,,
Eliza Madrigal: it keeps opening up, and there really are no formulas or one person's situation being the same as another's
Eliza Madrigal: people act silly sometimes... maybe trying to type without using the word "I" or some such
--BELL--1415
Eliza Madrigal: in order to think in those terms... but that is like a prop
Eliza Madrigal: that has to go
Bleu Oleander: so you've evolved to have less hold on your non-self ideas?
Eliza Madrigal: so, I mean just for me, that there is a kind of break through to direct experience that isn't as preoccupied with whether I am looking like a non-self practitioner...
Eliza Madrigal: if that makes sense at all
Bleu Oleander: ah ok
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: so allowing self to poke through in a way?
Eliza Madrigal: there is another kind of emergence I think
Eliza Madrigal: some of the 'nicest' most spiritual people can be really missing relationship
Eliza Madrigal: because their own sense of niceness and goodness is keeping them at arms length
Eliza Madrigal: maybe more self-protective... so not really experiencing no self
Bleu Oleander: like you and your mom?
Eliza Madrigal: for me sure... I have 'managed' my relationship with my mom
Eliza Madrigal: and have been "forgiving and kind"
Eliza Madrigal: even when I should have called her on things... and without going into details there are surely things
Eliza Madrigal: and I'm open to being called on return
Eliza Madrigal: to having a tougher but more real relationship
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: relationships are hard work
Wol Euler: perhaps the time has come?
Agatha Macbeth: True that
Eliza Madrigal: she's on a lot of medictations and feeding on fox news and becoming a rather intollerant person
Agatha Macbeth: Not surprising
Eliza Madrigal: I can hardly talk to her for more than 20 minutes .. we aren't 'talking' or relating in any way
Wol Euler listens.
Bleu Oleander: hard to find compassion ...
Eliza Madrigal: and she gets nasty if I don't agree... really takes it personally
Eliza Madrigal: so it has gotten ahrder and harder over the last few years
Eliza Madrigal: and then really scolded me for not calling more often
Eliza Madrigal: or visiting
Eliza Madrigal: but my goodness .... move, divorce, illness... and I'm going to take a vacation to deal with all that?
Eliza Madrigal: sorry...venting :)
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe you need to!
Eliza Madrigal: so what she and I need is to drop everything except for "us" and try to have something new
Wol Euler grins.
Eliza Madrigal: where she doesn't need me to hate Obama and I don't need her to ask about my kids
Eliza Madrigal: or things that matter to me
Eliza Madrigal: yes... hard... have been working with it a while and I think.. the vulnerability of this last year just lessened my buffer
Wol Euler gives your hand a squeeze.
Bleu Oleander: ((( Eliza )))
Agatha Macbeth: And yet every RL pic I see of you you're always smiling
Eliza Madrigal: thanks... very much... not anything I like to bring here
Wol Euler: depends where and what you think "here" is :)
Eliza Madrigal: I am a happy person :) "Life" as I said, is good to me
Agatha Macbeth: That's good
Bleu Oleander: interesting subject to talk about ... our FB personas
Agatha Macbeth hums a Joe Walsh song
Wol Euler: if here is "us" then there may be few better places to bring it (I hope)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm skeptical that talking about these things helps, if that makes sense
Eliza Madrigal: so it isn't my witholding like that
Bleu Oleander: sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't in my experience
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Wol Euler: for myself, I often find that it helps me understand the situation
Wol Euler: talking only to myself I get fixed on particular interpretations
Qt Core: i need to go, bye all
Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
Bleu Oleander: bye Qt
Eliza Madrigal: bye Qt :)
Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT

Bleu Oleander: sometimes I'm not my own best listener
Eliza Madrigal nods.. that may be when it is best to talk... to expose small thinking
Eliza Madrigal: what would it mean to be a good listener for oneself?
Bleu Oleander: honesty perhaps?
Eliza Madrigal: :) yeah...
--BELL--1430
Bleu Oleander: really hearing our mind's endless streams of thought and weeding out the unproductive ones, untrue ones, easier said than done though
Eliza Madrigal: true that
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: separating wheat from chaff
Wol Euler: but what a great project to work on! :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal would rather work on PaB book ^.^
Bleu Oleander: an endless project :)
Bleu Oleander: lol PaB book ... yes!
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe combine the two?
Eliza Madrigal: that's sort of the thing... do feel there is a call on creativity at the moment
Bleu Oleander: dropping for me is an opportunity to listen to oneself .... shine a light on reflection
Eliza Madrigal: that if I don't answer with greater authenticity... well, I just think it is time
Eliza Madrigal: who is "oneself" in that context Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: me, my thoughts, my experiences, my memories ... who else could it be?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: your self may be more clearer spoken than mine
Bleu Oleander: LOL wishes for that!
Wol Euler: when I examine the "me" that is saying these things, I often find it's an echo of somebody else
Eliza Madrigal listens
Wol Euler: an internalized voice
Bleu Oleander: echos of all our relationships, experience, memories ... yes
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: things you guys have said over the years echo in the voice that I call me
Wol Euler: there was a breakthrough moment in the first weeks with my therapist, when I realized that something I'd just said (and believed in the moment of saying) was in fact not true of the real me who reflected on it
Eliza Madrigal: takes a moment to process... to imagine...
Bleu Oleander: my automatic self doesn't always agree with my reflective self
Wol Euler: exactly!
Eliza Madrigal: for sure!
Bleu Oleander: shocking when you realize that!
Agatha Macbeth: Shocking!
Agatha Macbeth: Zzap
Eliza Madrigal: these are beautiful, confusing insights
Agatha Macbeth: Confusing he say...
Eliza Madrigal: there is some comfort in the sense of sharing them
Bleu Oleander: they're a start, but the real work lies ahead, for me it's ongoing
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: part of it has to be that we have been given models of expectation that aren't very dimensional
Eliza Madrigal: as with relationships... what a "good" relationship may be between people, etc
Agatha Macbeth: One that works?
Eliza Madrigal: so when many dimensions are in play there is some confusion perhaps, of how to work with that...
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: always more dimensions than we realize
Eliza Madrigal: cones ^.^
Agatha Macbeth: Cone ya dig it
Eliza Madrigal: I do share the sense of you all here, having a voice in my 'me'
Eliza Madrigal: peculiar to think about directly
Wol Euler smiles.
Bleu Oleander: we are in each others heads :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) maybe one of you can deal with my mother...
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Wol Euler: hehehehe
Bleu Oleander: LOL
Agatha Macbeth: Wol can do that
--BELL--1445
Bleu Oleander: might take a team!
Eliza Madrigal: !
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: "My name is Wolf. I solve problems. I hear you have a problem?"
Bleu Oleander: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Awooooo
Bleu Oleander: have to go ... take care
Wol Euler: bye bleu, take care
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bleu, ty...
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Bleuji...love to the doggies
Bleu Oleander: byeee

Wol Euler: my lord, friday again tomorrow
Bleu Oleander: doggies say ty!
Wol Euler: where does the time go?
Agatha Macbeth: Lord Friday?
Agatha Macbeth: Did he get promoted?
Wol Euler: seems only hours ago that I met the cleaner on the stairs and made a joke about it being friday again already
Agatha Macbeth: Well you will go being philosophical with cleaners...
Wol Euler: I be philosophical with everyone, mon.
Eliza Madrigal: RL contacts :)
Eliza Madrigal: my son said, as we were talking about something and I noticed his thinking for himself "Well, that's the difference between being a bookworm and a philosopher"
Wol Euler: hehehehe
Wol Euler: the kid has a fine grasp
Agatha Macbeth: Oh, that's it then
Agatha Macbeth: Always wondered...
Eliza Madrigal: he's amazing.. so why did he bring home a horrid progress report?
Wol Euler: not doing what was expected, perhaps?
Agatha Macbeth: It's the system
Eliza Madrigal: I moved his computer out of his room and into the living room
Eliza Madrigal: so he isn't speaking to me atm
Agatha Macbeth: Kids eh
Eliza Madrigal: but not sure what else to do
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal shrugs
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe he needs to be home educated? ;)
Eliza Madrigal: he thinks so :)
Agatha Macbeth: Ha
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: but there is a father who doesn't...
Agatha Macbeth: Oh what do fathers know? :p
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: he's doing so well compared to a few years ago though
Eliza Madrigal: and at least he has a sense of his own mind... I didn't have that until... hm... a few years ago? lol
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: Until SL maybe?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe! what an irony if so...
Agatha Macbeth: Serendipity
Eliza Madrigal: to see my mind playing around here
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Agatha Macbeth: Come to PaB and find a new you
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: we need PaB potion...
Eliza Madrigal: um, perfume
Agatha Macbeth: I think we have it!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Home brewed
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal sees Wol in samadhi listening to music
Eliza Madrigal: ^.^
Wol Euler grins.
Agatha Macbeth: I sent Bleu the link btw
Eliza Madrigal: ah, thanks
Agatha Macbeth: She didn't know what it is either
Eliza Madrigal: I think artists have experienced dropping naturally very often
Eliza Madrigal: as part of process/flow... so it seems strange sometimes to talk about it like a doing
Wol Euler: yes!
Wol Euler: more like a stopping-needing-to-do
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Agatha Macbeth: For whom the bell tolls
Eliza Madrigal: that said... I do think for a lot of us it IS a gesture of welcome to samadhi, so to speak
Eliza Madrigal: and with my Christian background it is hard to get away from images of offering,etc
Eliza Madrigal: or in Buddhism, extending love you don't feel you have
Agatha Macbeth: Burnt offerings
Eliza Madrigal: cause it isn't about 'you' or coming from 'you' anyway
Eliza Madrigal: have to keep this in mind... hm.... okay... phone call time
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: good luck, dear eliza
Wol Euler: stay calm, and stay true
Agatha Macbeth: 'Not a story coming from you but you coming from a story' :p
Eliza Madrigal: oooooo
Agatha Macbeth: Take care ET
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Agatha Macbeth: Bzzt
Wol Euler: midnight, I shall head off too
Agatha Macbeth: Swim well
Eliza Madrigal reaches glowing finger
--BELL--1500
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: bye my dear friends and lovely people
Wol Euler: ♥
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for being in my head, lol
Agatha Macbeth: ♥♥
Eliza Madrigal: ♥ ♥ ♥
Wol Euler: thaks for having us
Agatha Macbeth: Here there and everywhere
Wol Euler: ♥
Eliza Madrigal: :)