2008.08.03 01:00 - Drop things in a different way

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    Moon was the guardian that night. 

    Moon Fargis: hi bert :)
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Moon
    Bertrum Quan: How are your this evening/morning?
    Moon Fargis: im fine thanks:) leading a pab meeting at the morning wakes up the mind :)
    Bertrum Quan: Great. I'm tired this evening.
    Moon Fargis: ow late iis it in your country?
    Moon Fargis: rehi gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Bertrum Quan: Depends where.. but it's 1AM SLT
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Gaya.
    Bertrum Quan: I saw Gaya a bit earlier at Hikari.
    Moon Fargis: yep :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'posting a log on wiki'
    Moon Fargis: hi tahuti
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Tahuti
    Tahuti Thor: hello everyone
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Moon Fargis: tahuti: seem you logged of at pab and now on at pab :)
    Tahuti Thor: :)
    Tahuti Thor: what is pah?
    Moon Fargis: oh
    Moon Fargis: play as being
    Tahuti Thor: o,yes
    Moon Fargis: this is some new mindfullnes form of seeing things
    Moon Fargis: some practise
    Moon Fargis: in rl
    Gaya Ethaniel: PaB - playasbeing
    Gaya Ethaniel: You've been here before yes Tahuti?
    Gaya Ethaniel met Tahuti yesterday at PaB
    Tahuti Thor: yes
    Moon Fargis: we do it every 15 minutes for 9 seconds. we blay as we would be enlighted, see things for this 9 seconds unattached by the mind
    Moon Fargis: b=p
    Gaya Ethaniel: Moon is explaining to you the basics of what we do here :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Moon what's b=p?
    Moon Fargis: some grammar correction
    Moon Fargis: or typo correction
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'blay = play'
    Moon Fargis: :)
    Moon Fargis: theres a homepage about PaB: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
    Moon Fargis: and ofcourse a much extendent description: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/hin...ying-as-being/
    Moon Fargis: we also log this cat for posting it aat a wiki...is it ok for you to include your name?
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Gaya Ethaniel: your name and what you say here Tahuti, can we post online?
    Gaya Ethaniel forgot to ask this question to Tahuti yesterday
    Tahuti Thor: yes
    Moon Fargis: so take your time to read throught the page if you wish
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you. Just posted what we discussed yesterday, you were there http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...%80%a6_and_PaB as an example
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Was shame we couldn't talk more on it. Time flied yesterday
    Tahuti Thor: oh ok i c
    Moon Fargis: what did you taked about maybe we can continue today#
    Moon Fargis: +l
    Gaya Ethaniel: Moon, maybe have a quick scan from " I pluck up my courage and decide to raise a question regarding ‘tension’ within PaB and everyone is suddenly firing all cylinders to my surprise… our discussion centres around God, god, religion, belief and Being."
    Moon Fargis: aha
    Moon Fargis: intrestiong
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Moon Fargis: what do you think about it?
    Tahuti Thor: only said that religion is a method or practice, etc. that connects an individual to (fill in blank) so he or she will feel together/whole/balanced
    Tahuti Thor: the methods/practices are numerous and include meditation, prayer, chanting, ritual, etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel: My feelings are still the same as before. I see 'God' as Being (as in PaB) and I value all major religions as I appreciate different perspectives. Same attitude goes for different opinions of people. However it seems to me that how one defines 'God' and their backgrounds affect how he/she practise 9 sec & PaB. Unless I know the person well, sometimes it's easy to get confused over 'words' and 'definitions'
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes Tahuti
    Moon Fargis: ahyes true, hmm i think PaB is more a reduction of yourself, where you drop all your attachments for a short time and see things without meanings
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: But not everyone seems to be able to 'drop'
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm absolutely fine whether one drops the attachments (ie religious/spiritual backgrounds) or not. It's just that it's not always clear who is dropping
    Moon Fargis: hmm i think everyone drops something in a different way
    Tahuti Thor: its like everyone craves for chocolate......and lets pretend we are all blind as to what chocolate looks like.......and so we have different concepts/descriptions of what chocolate (God) looks like
    Tahuti Thor: fundamentally i ithink the feeling of what we get out of religion is the same
    Gaya Ethaniel: perhaps Tahuti
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because of the uncertainty how the person I'm talking to is practising, discussions can get caught up with definitions and other notions... am I making any sense?
    Tahuti Thor: yes
    Moon Fargis: well yes and ofcourse always depends on the religion and ow people interpret their words... the badest example would be the muslim religion where people interpret the words in a total wrong and absolut way
    Gaya Ethaniel: phew... too many sentences from me! I'm going to keep quiet for a bit
    Tahuti Thor: one religion hikes, another religion walks, still another religion swims
    Tahuti Thor: one religion may be a bit more isolated
    Tahuti Thor: another more social oriented
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Moon Fargis: ok but i still see pab as practise form wich is religionless and can be used independent of the religion
    Moon Fargis: like buddhism mostly is
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Moon Fargis: i know alot of christians who are buddhists too
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh tell me more Moon?
    Moon Fargis: sure let me look up the english word for it one sec
    Moon Fargis: you can mostly see this in the christ "Order of Saint Benedict" there you can find the most buddhists in it
    Moon Fargis: they often do meditations and also pray to god
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes... I believe they have own meditation method. Do you think this leads them to find Buddhism useful?
    Moon Fargis: its a intresting mixture
    Gaya Ethaniel: we typed same thing here Moon :)
    Moon Fargis: :) buddhism is godless thhats why it fits well in most other religions as practise form
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well can't say that for esoteric Buddhism imo
    Moon Fargis: ofcourse there are some countrys wo see buddha as god
    Gaya Ethaniel: again same thing... sorry I shouldl be more patient waiting for you to type Moon
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Moon Fargis: same wavelength :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's why I prefer to learn more from Theravada, Chan, Seon & Zen rather than Mahayana Buddhism. Though it's simply because I don't yet have the faith or haven't had patience/capacity to understand the elaborate rituals Mahayana practise
    Moon Fargis: yes and we see this changes at pab too
    Gaya Ethaniel: And I also feel close to Catholicism too somehow
    Gaya Ethaniel: Changes - Mahayana to Theravada?
    Moon Fargis: we justt started with a simple explaination how pab works and how to pracctise.. throught all the other practise people it developed on its own
    Moon Fargis: now we got play as seeing and the play as enlightment being aso
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Moon Fargis: with different practise methods and ways of practise.. that happend to buddhism too and maybe also happens to all other religions
    Tahuti Thor: i wish i could make it to california to practice the forest tradition :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: But you said that no much has changed for you doing PaB Moon
    Gaya Ethaniel: Tahuti - are you referring to the followers of Ajahn Chah?
    Tahuti Thor: forest tradition = thai theravada
    Tahuti Thor: yes
    Moon Fargis: gaya: yes ive done such things mostly douring my zazen already before pab
    Gaya Ethaniel: My teacher is also a follower of Ajahn Chah :)
    Tahuti Thor: not sure there is forest tradition on east coast
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.forestsangha.org/munindo4.htm
    Gaya Ethaniel: He's in UK
    Moon Fargis: for sure there are forrests atleast:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: First time to meet someone interested in this particular sangha in SL
    Tahuti Thor: even better is goin to thailand
    Tahuti Thor: but i rather stay in the states :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So Moon what you meant was that you see such changes in others at PaB?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes there is one monastery as you said in California
    Gaya Ethaniel: I believe it's http://www.abhayagiri.org/
    Gaya Ethaniel: Don't know much about the place though...
    Tahuti Thor: yes,that is it
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Moon Fargis: things are changing and evolving
    Gaya Ethaniel: But it seems that you are not changing and evolving if I understood correctly Moon
    Tahuti Thor: the one in thailand is the international monastery
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's right Tahuti
    Moon Fargis: gaya: no ythen you understood me wrong :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :( tell me
    Moon Fargis: just wanted to say that this practise is pretty the same as the practise i did before but without calling it PaB. Maybe its something natural that people comes to this practise somehow on their own way but we never stop learning from it
    Moon Fargis: everyone evolves in a different way
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... I get it now
    Gaya Ethaniel: You're changing and evolving as you 'practise' but how you practise hasn't really changed as both what you did before and after PaB are similar...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm surprised to hear that in fact... why would you say Zen is similar to PaB?
    Moon Fargis: is cola similar to pepsi ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes and no :)
    Moon Fargis: see :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel: I get it Moon
    Gaya Ethaniel: If we hyperlink 'cola' and 'pepsi' do you think we will get some sort of sponsor money :P
    Moon Fargis: no but maybe some lawers comes to us and forbit to say these words becasue we dont have the right to use them :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: wise Moon
    Moon Fargis: so bertrum.. is there something you want to say?
    Bertrum Quan: I'm enjoying listening this evening.
    Moon Fargis: ah Play as Listening then :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Would like to listen how you've found PaB so far in regards to my comments before if at all possible Bert
    Gaya Ethaniel enjoys listening too
    Bertrum Quan: Which comments in particular?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry, the 'tension' described in the log I just posted. Have you had any similar experience?
    Bertrum Quan: I haven't read the log yet...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure... just posted after all
    Tahuti Thor: the tension between those of different faiths?
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes and how they interact in PaB
    Gaya Ethaniel: in particular
    Tahuti Thor: what is everyone in PAB.....part of me believes is best not to say
    Gaya Ethaniel: I mean people who participate in these discussions Tahuti
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh ok
    Tahuti Thor: yes, i was going to ask what are the diff faiths in here
    Tahuti Thor: but part of me believes its of no significance
    Tahuti Thor: as the human experience is the same
    Tahuti Thor: more or less :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes... I think what resonated most today was what Moon said about '[1:19] Moon Fargis: hmm i think everyone drops something in a different way'
    Moon Fargis: ok then lets choose the topic to : Dop things in a different way
    Moon Fargis: +r
    Gaya Ethaniel: This I'm going to remember everytime I see such tension rising - should do the trick of me not feeling uncomfortable
    Tahuti Thor: multiple perspectives for the same moon
    Gaya Ethaniel: and how to recognise Moon?
    Moon Fargis: what do you want to recognice gaya?
    Tahuti Thor: oops , not moon fargis : )
    Tahuti Thor: the moon we all share on earth
    Gaya Ethaniel: well recognise is not the right word, i mean more 'accepting'
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: I have issues with feeling uncomfortable when people disagree to an extent when they have 'debates' or 'arguments'
    Tahuti Thor: its up to the recipient to be able to see from multiple perspectives/angles
    Gaya Ethaniel: I seem to hope people agree at times beyond reasons for my own sake feeling ok
    Moon Fargis: ahh i know what you want to say.. on second let me look someting up
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tahuti Thor: open minds can see multiple perspectives/angles
    Gaya Ethaniel didn't join debate societies at uni because of this issue though she wanted to learn to debate not argue
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm pretty open minded Tahuti just that I find it uncomfortable watching people argue really
    Tahuti Thor: yeah
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think it triggers something in my unconscious or past experiences
    Tahuti Thor: so what to do when people argue?
    Moon Fargis: ok
    Moon Fargis: http://www.frei111.de/picts/Kreuz.jpg
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I used to try stopping them by intervening but I know better now and just listen
    Moon Fargis: whats this gaya ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... not sure what is it Moon?
    Moon Fargis: this happens when everyone tell something about the same object in his different ways of viewing
    Gaya Ethaniel: unfolded box?
    Moon Fargis: http://www.frei111.de/picts/wuerfel.jpg
    Moon Fargis: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: lucky guess :P
    Tahuti Thor: yes, someone (open minded one) has to serve as a reconciler
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yet Tahuti, at times there's no need or nothing to reconcile - this is what I've been trying to 'accept'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let it be...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Moon got the tune on your puter by chance?
    Gaya Ethaniel has the tune but not sure how to play inworld
    Moon Fargis: uhm what?
    Moon Fargis: tune on a puter?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let it be by Beatles :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: puter = computer sorry
    Moon Fargis: ahh no no beatless here
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=67J_66hdN-I
    Moon Fargis: ahh tis
    Moon Fargis: btw we germans say Compi
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.allspirit.co.uk/let.html - the words
    Moon Fargis: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxR...eature=related
    Moon Fargis: i like this more :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: cool puter=compi=computer :)
    Moon Fargis: see
    Moon Fargis: different ways of saying one thing comes together
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel is constantly learning appropriate 'words' to talk to different people
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ah.. Imagine Moon - one of my favourite also
    Tahuti Thor: now i do believe people have different mental images in head or mental images of the computer
    Tahuti Thor: but the 'feeling" that sparks from this mental image is more or less the same
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.lyricsdownload.com/beatle...ne-lyrics.html *
    Tahuti Thor: comfort, friendly feeling
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: it's more the feelings that come from 'connection' for me Tahuti
    Tahuti Thor: i dont think there is any solution to this problem, do u ?
    Moon Fargis: is there really a problem ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I do and that's why I'm here for example
    Tahuti Thor: few religions are uncomprimising
    Gaya Ethaniel: [2:00] Gaya Ethaniel: Yet Tahuti, at times there's no need or nothing to reconcile - this is what I've been trying to 'accept'
    Tahuti Thor: im sorry......in the RL
    Gaya Ethaniel: well in RL, it's a balancing act if that's kind of stuff you're referring too
    Tahuti Thor: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: that could lead to another big discussion which unfortunately we don't have time for now :)
    Bertrum Quan: Thanks, Moon, Gaya, Thauti forthe discussion.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you everyone
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Moon Fargis: see you bert
    Tahuti Thor: welcome and thank you
    Moon Fargis: yes lets end our discussion for now
    Bertrum Quan: Bye everyone
    Tahuti Thor: take care you all
    Gaya Ethaniel: See you again soon
    Moon Fargis: See you later!

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