2008.08.10 19:00 - Zowie!!

That evening, I (Pema) was the guardian. I arrived at an empty pavilion, but when I saw some people at the Zen Retreat center nearby I walked over there, while keeping an eye out for the pavilion, in case someone would show up.

Dakini Rhode: the train only gave me one possible departure time :)
Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
Solobill Laville: Nice to meet you Vares
Sigmund Schwarz: Go well, Vares. Thanks, again.
Dakini Rhode: hey Pema !
Solobill Laville: Hey, Pema!
Pema Pera: Hi again Dakini :)
Solobill Laville: Bye Vares
Sigmund Schwarz: Hey, Pema.
Dakini Rhode: :)
Pema Pera: and hi Sig, Vares, Solo!
Solobill Laville: :)
Pema Pera: Hi Tara!
Solobill Laville: So the train give less options
Dakini Rhode: we have whispering incense and singing boxes here :)
Tara Farmer: hey hey
Solobill Laville: hi again Tara
Dakini Rhode: hey Tara :)
Tara Farmer: i' back for a little while
Pema Pera: wb!
Solobill Laville: OK, we're just chatting away
Pema Pera: I'm keeping an eye on my radar, in cases PaB people show up
Solobill Laville: gothca
Dakini Rhode: we could walk over there and be PaB people
Solobill Laville: I still need to do a final edit to my last
Solobill Laville: hehe true
Pema Pera: sure!

I walked back to the pavilion, and soon Solo came over as well.

Pema Pera: Hi Solo!
Solobill Laville: Hi Pema!
Pema Pera: How are you?
Solobill Laville: Doing quite well :)
Pema Pera: I guess Dakini mentioned about the lunch she and I had in RL this afternoon?
Solobill Laville: Yes!
Pema Pera: at a nice Korean vegetarian restaurant
Pema Pera: here in New York City
Solobill Laville: That is so great to meet folks in RL
Pema Pera: and after that I had dinner with Pia, also in NYC
Solobill Laville: Wonderful!
Pema Pera: and she kindly agreed to swap our sessions -- I am taking over her session tonight, and she will be doing mine tomorrow morning
Pema Pera: when I'll be traveling to Princeton, for work -- works out well that way
Solobill Laville: The flexibilty of scheduling sessions goes a long way to making it work for everyone
Pema Pera: absolutely
Solobill Laville: I've been covered more than once...
Pema Pera: great!
Pema Pera: Then tomorrow I'll meet Adams, the day after that Adelene and Genesis, and so on, a whole group -- I very much look forward to the October weekend in Princeton
Pema Pera: Do you think you'll be able to come then?
Pema Pera: Oct. 17-19
Pema Pera: Good evening, Avastu!
Solobill Laville: I have it on my calendar, but it is about a 50/50
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Solobill Laville: I'd love to make it
Solobill Laville: Hello Avastu!
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Avastur arrived, sooned followed by Dakini.

Pema Pera: We're talking about the Princeton RL weekend gettogether, Oct. 17-19
Pema Pera: it should be fun!
Solobill Laville: PaB-fest!!
Pema Pera: yup
Pema Pera: Hi again Dakini!
Solobill Laville: Will there be nametags with SL names I wonder?
Solobill Laville: ;)
Pema Pera: hahaha
Dakini Rhode: hey :)
Pema Pera: what a nice idea
Solobill Laville: Or we could just try to figure it out, that'd be fun!!
Dakini Rhode: talking about the SL convention?
Pema Pera: interesting thought, Solo!
Solobill Laville: Though it sounds like by then you'll met most everyone Pema
Pema Pera: getting together in Princeton
Dakini Rhode: ah
Pema Pera: Oct.17-19
Pema Pera: yes, it would be nice to gues from speech patterns
Solobill Laville: Yes, PaB-fest, and I hope there will be T-shirts... ;)
Dakini Rhode: everyone will know me :)
Pema Pera: who is who
Pema Pera: yes, you have no chance to be incognito, Dakini
Solobill Laville: Will you be wearing your RL skull necklace Dakini??
Pema Pera: Actually, of the four of us, everyone except Solo has given their names on the blog -- an don't you also have a picture on the google email list, Solo?
Dakini Rhode: ya never know....
Pema Pera: *on their own blog
Solobill Laville: true, my name is on our site though, I've thought about a blog...
Pema Pera: One option will be for all of us to have blog entries on the PaB wiki, when that gets more worked out
Pema Pera: perhaps easier than everyone starting an independent blog
Solobill Laville: Yes, I'd think so

Dakini then changed into a dazzling Tibetan dakini, true to her name!

Pema Pera: wow, Dakini, wonderful!
Pema Pera: Now we will recognize you in Princeton!!!
Dakini Rhode: hehe everyone thinks I'm a nun
Solobill Laville: Zowie!!
Dakini Rhode: i need to start going about as a bird :)
Pema Pera: :)
Solobill Laville: hehe
Solobill Laville: There goes a feather
Dakini Rhode: i appear to be molting
Solobill Laville: and another
Solobill Laville: are these severed attachments too Dakini?
Pema Pera: I was wondering about the birds / butterflies :)
Dakini Rhode: good way to think of them, Bill
Solobill Laville: :)
Pema Pera: detachments
Solobill Laville: yes!
Pema Pera: Avastu, a while ago you mentioned something about some possible experiments, and I responded saying that we may want to wait a bit, to get the autorecording and new wiki in better shape, and have a better entry for those. However, things are progressing a bit slower than foreseen. How about mentioning some of them now, and see whether anyone will pick up on them?
Pema Pera: I don't know whether you remember them. I can look them up, if you like
Avastu Maruti: I don't recall them - do you have them?
Pema Pera: yes, just a sec
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:34] Avastu Maruti: #1 What if you were born with no senses - totally blind, deaf, no sense of smell, touch or taste. What would you know of the world? What would you take yourself to be?
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:35] Avastu Maruti: #2 What if you had never learned a language? What thoughts can arise without words? Can you have a thought that isn't a word? What if you didn't have language?
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:37] Avastu Maruti: #3 The senses translate the world - where does this translated "picture" happen? Is what we see through the senses an exact representation of the "world"? If so, why does the body appear in this picture? Are the eyes clear windows and we sit behind looking out? If not, what does reality really look like?
Pema Pera: Actually, I should have started with the introductory sentence -- sorry about that -- which was:
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:33] Avastu Maruti: The idea is to introduce a topic to "play with" in a PaB session - things which challenge the "normal" beliefs we carry with us. These can then be discussed among those attending if they wish. These explorations may "open doors" to insight into the false.
Solobill Laville: #2 fascinates me, and we have discussed it a bit in a couple of the sessions I was guardian.
Solobill Laville: AH
Pema Pera: I think these are great suggestions -- and it is nice to have various ways to "play"

Joziman walked by, and sat down with us.

Pema Pera: Hi Joziman!
Pema Pera: please come sit with us if you like
Pema Pera: we are just chatting
pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.36419, -0.60614, 0.36400, 0.60619>
Solobill Laville: #3 I think is also a good experiment as it deals directly with some of the hardwired assumptions we have of what is *real*.
Solobill Laville: #1 is a toughy for me...
Dakini Rhode: hi Joziman :)
joziman Twine: hello there
joziman Twine: i will join in
pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.63889, -0.30302, 0.63889, 0.30302>
Pema Pera: we are talking about our interest in the nature of reality. We keep a blog on http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.63889, -0.30302, 0.63889, 0.30302>
pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.63889, -0.30302, 0.63889, 0.30302>
Pema Pera: in which we record our conversations, for those people in our group who can't be here tonight. Do you mind if we include your part of the conversations too?
Pema Pera: Just want to make sure
joziman Twine: ok
Pema Pera: we respect people's privacy. Thank you!
Pema Pera: we meet here four times a day
joziman Twine: i would like to join
Pema Pera: 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm SLT
Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
Dakini Rhode: hi Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Pema Pera: Good seeing you again!
Solobill Laville: Hello, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you all. Lovely to see you again :)

Gaya joined us as well.

Pema Pera: joziman, do you know how to sit? Right click on a cushin and select "sit" or "kneel"
Pema Pera: depending of the cushion
Pema Pera: if you click with the right button on your mouse
Pema Pera: you get a pie diagram
Pema Pera: and you can select "sit"
joziman Twine: trying to sit
Pema Pera: first put your cursos on a cushion
joziman Twine: sorry im new in all this
Pema Pera: no problem!
Pema Pera: we all had to learn that
Solobill Laville: No worries, Joziman!
Pema Pera: I saw that you wer "born" a week ago -- welcome to SL!
Pema Pera: so put your cursor on a cushion, then right click with your mouse
Pema Pera: do you see a pie diagram of choices?
Pema Pera: hit escape now
Pema Pera: to get out of "editing appearance"
Pema Pera: How are you, Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: Can't really sleep... but otherwise ok thanks Pema
Pema Pera: ah, it must be very late in London now!
Gaya Ethaniel: yes.. 3:35 AM
Pema Pera: late indeed!
Gaya Ethaniel: Had a friend who had some 'powerful' experiences and I was helping that person
Solobill Laville: That is kind of you, Gaya
Pema Pera: hi Adelen!
Adelene Dawner: Hi!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Dakini Rhode: hello Adelene :)
Solobill Laville: Hi Adelene
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

And Adelene also arrived and sat down with us.

Gaya Ethaniel: Well helping others is quite important to me Solo
Solobill Laville: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Thou I'm not quite 'qualified' for it
Gaya Ethaniel: It's more important than my sleep sometimes...
Gaya Ethaniel: Helping them helps me
Solobill Laville: Yes, but I just wanted to acknowledge it :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Know Solo and thanks for your kindness as always
Gaya Ethaniel: You've helped me too!
Solobill Laville: (blushes)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: All of you really... just seeing me here, being here and willing to listen and talk to me
Gaya Ethaniel: no motivation or agenda
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: :)
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Dakini Rhode: hi steven aia :)
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Solobill Laville: Is there anything that you want to talk about Gaya that would help you get some sleep?
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: Hi, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: nice to see you all... when you appear
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm afraid it's something to do with this friend who is not here... I cannot discuss 'private matters' at PaB
Gaya Ethaniel: unless they are mine
Solobill Laville: I've been here with Avastu for 30 minutes and he is still the glowing white orb...
Solobill Laville: Of course, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pema Pera: SL is going through another bout of problems it seems
Gaya Ethaniel: Thou there is something I can relate to you...
Solobill Laville: Or...maybe...Avastu is a glowing white orb...
Solobill Laville: ;)
Gaya Ethaniel: Not going to make me sleep thou :)
Dakini Rhode: to me Avastu looks like a smiling avatar in robes :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Everyone looks fine to me
Gaya Ethaniel: except Pema's right calf is missing and he's standing atm
Gaya Ethaniel: right leg bent*

With all the new arrivals, I repeated the exercises that Avastu had suggested earlier.

Pema Pera: Avastu suggested a few new PaB exercises
Pema Pera: and we just started to talk about them
Pema Pera: perhaps I can quickly repeat them here
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:33] Avastu Maruti: The idea is to introduce a topic to "play with" in a PaB session - things which challenge the "normal" beliefs we carry with us. These can then be discussed among those attending if they wish. These explorations may "open doors" to insight into the false.
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:34] Avastu Maruti: #1 What if you were born with no senses - totally blind, deaf, no sense of smell, touch or taste. What would you know of the world? What would you take yourself to be?
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:35] Avastu Maruti: #2 What if you had never learned a language? What thoughts can arise without words? Can you have a thought that isn't a word? What if you didn't have language?
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:37] Avastu Maruti: #3 The senses translate the world - where does this translated "picture" happen? Is what we see through the senses an exact representation of the "world"? If so, why does the body appear in this picture? Are the eyes clear windows and we sit behind looking out? If not, what does reality really look like?
Dakini Rhode: those are intriguing questions, Avastu
Gaya Ethaniel: brb
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps one at a time, then we can spend weeks on each
Solobill Laville: I believe they all touch upon Seeing, though as I mentioned earlier the first on is a leap for me
Solobill Laville: Seeing, or whatever word works better, that is
Solobill Laville: Perceiving, etc.
Gaya Ethaniel: back
Solobill Laville: Ah, good idea Steve!
Solobill Laville: I'll broach #2 if anyone else would like to talk about that
Pema Pera: fine!
Adelene Dawner: I can chime in there.
Solobill Laville: Excellent!
Solobill Laville: I have had some success of achieving states of "no-thought"
Solobill Laville: and at that point there was no words either
Solobill Laville: but that is a tough place to hold
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting as my work is devoted to #2...images
Solobill Laville: and words seem to be the demons there
Solobill Laville: I cannot "think" without words
Dakini Rhode: are you sure you cannot think without words?
Solobill Laville: Some people here have said they can, but I do not undersrand that
Solobill Laville: I can feel without words
Solobill Laville: I would consider that different
Adelene Dawner grins. "See, I'm the opposite, Solo. Most of my thoughts are not in words or at least not primarily in words. Any time I talk, it's a translation."
Solobill Laville: I can perceive without words

The question of what thinking is . . . .

Dakini Rhode: what is "thinking" maybe that's the issue
Adelene Dawner: Good point Dak ^.^
Solobill Laville: I understand that is a difference, Adelene, and I do think we "think" differently :)
Dakini Rhode: when you hear some chatter going on do you call it "thinking" and otherwise it's not thinking?
Solobill Laville: It is thinking if I "think" I hear chatter, which I will "think" with words
Dakini Rhode: lol
Solobill Laville: hehe
Dakini Rhode: so you're referring to discursive thought, Bill?
Solobill Laville: yes
Solobill Laville: That would be my definition
Solobill Laville: But, I don't think the thought comes from any "me"
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Dakini Rhode: excercize #4 where do thoughts come from and where do they go to?
Gaya Ethaniel: That's a difficult one...
Solobill Laville: Now we're cookin' with heat!!
Pema Pera: :)
Dakini Rhode: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: Think I'm PaBed out now
Gaya Ethaniel: Good to talk to you all
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Dakini Rhode: that about did it, eh?
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Gaya
Dakini Rhode: did we make you sleepy yet, Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: yep #4 was a killer Dakini
Solobill Laville: 'night Gaya
Dakini Rhode: haha
Gaya Ethaniel: wide awake with #4
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

Gaya left, Claire arrived, but soon we were all ready to go.

Dakini Rhode: hi Claire :)
Pema Pera: hi Claire!
Claire Beltran: Oh! You're here!
Solobill Laville: I think, on that very exciting question, I too will depart friends, hopefully to pick up later
Solobill Laville: Good idea Avastu!
Pema Pera: Hi
Pema Pera: Thanks, Avastu!
Adelene Dawner: I think I'll head home, too. I'm still not in a very social mood today.
Pema Pera: Claire, Hi!
Pema Pera: I think we're winding up here
Pema Pera: for me it's getting time to get some sleep as well
stevenaia Michinaga: night pema
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Dakini Rhode: I think i'm winding down too :)
Pema Pera: goodbye Avastu, Dakini, Steve, Claire!
Claire Beltran: Aww.... goodbye, everyone.
Dakini Rhode: will go see where thoughts come from - sort of like counting sheep
Pema Pera: we normally start at 7 pm here, Claire, 10 pm EDT
stevenaia Michinaga: or herding cats
Pema Pera: we've been talking for an hour :)
Claire Beltran: *nods*
Avastu Maruti: good night my friends
Claire Beltran: Goodbye, all!
Pema Pera: cu all!