2008.08.21 07:00 - Nimble Thinking, Thimble Ninking

Hey There, Here's the log from the 7am session - Cal.

Fancy meeting you here...

Pema Pera: fancy to meet you here, Cal!
Pema Pera: Hi Doug!
Pema Pera: Looks like a Berkeley reunion
Caledonia Heron: :)
doug Sosa: Morning pema :)
doug Sosa: hi cal :)
Caledonia Heron: morning Doug
Caledonia Heron: nice to see you again Pema :)

A circle back...

Caledonia Heron: Doug and I were talking about social responsibility projects yesterday
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: yes?
doug Sosa: yes we were.
Caledonia Heron: how Doug uses 9sec in the planning meetings
doug Sosa: i find i like the 9 sec even better in the swirl of intense activity. It is
doug Sosa: both harder and easier
Pema Pera: I'm impressed with your 9-sec applications, Doug!
Pema Pera: Like in conversations and with memories
Pema Pera: great examples for us all!
Caledonia Heron: me too - I like the way we can extend it
doug Sosa: i have to watch out that it isn't too much fun!
Pema Pera: no need to really stop or give up
Pema Pera: the only thing to give up is attachments
doug Sosa: i was kidding.
Pema Pera: ;)

Sticky stuff...

Pema Pera: we need to give up the glue
Pema Pera: not that what we are glued to
doug Sosa: giving up attachments is like freedom, only useful if you fill it up again with constraints.
Caledonia Heron: ?
Pema Pera: but it is easier to see the objects that are glued to us, so we try to give up the objects instead of the glue
Caledonia Heron: yeah, I kind of like some of the objects :)
doug Sosa: it is an oscillation between full and empty .
Pema Pera: we wind up all sticky and yucky!
Caledonia Heron: but don't require them
Pema Pera: and without the nice objects
Pema Pera: yes, Cal
Caledonia Heron: we can even be un-attached to pab :)
doug Sosa: but see pema how much you have taken on here wiht PaB, a whole new set of things to cope with.
Pema Pera: oh sure!
Pema Pera: but it doesn't feel like coping with
Pema Pera: that's the funniest thing
Pema Pera: I've never worked so hard in my life
doug Sosa: and that seems to me to be the real freedom, to go between being a part of being and being free of having to be a part so that being can just be.
Pema Pera: and yet it's easier than anything I've done
doug Sosa: right!
doug Sosa: beautiful.
Pema Pera: because I don't know what I'm doing
Pema Pera: and I take delight in that
Pema Pera: nothing can go wrong
Pema Pera: because there is no plan
Pema Pera: that's the organic part
Caledonia Heron: LOL I love that part
Caledonia Heron: nothing can go wrong because there is no wrong
Pema Pera: yup

Being as a Resource...

Pema Pera: what makes me able to do this is one central thing I've learned from Stim
doug Sosa: the 9 sec helps make that an experience rather than a verbal formula.
Pema Pera: to view Being as a resource
Caledonia Heron: to draw from?
Pema Pera: to view the most abstract-looking idea as the most concrete resource
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: but more acurately
Pema Pera: to let it nourish you
Pema Pera: no drawing
Pema Pera: it gives freely
Caledonia Heron: you can make something out of nothing then maybe
Pema Pera: no you, no making
Pema Pera: (sound like Avastu ;)
Caledonia Heron: lol
Pema Pera: out of nothing it comes
Caledonia Heron: me no making
Pema Pera: haha
Pema Pera: but that's really central
Caledonia Heron: no me making
Caledonia Heron: making no me
Pema Pera: the fountain of youth
Pema Pera: not the drill hole of old age
Pema Pera: bore hole
doug Sosa: half burried.

Through the mist...

Pema Pera: to let "nothing" work for you is a miracle
doug Sosa: the world becomes much larger and the limits of large even dissapear.
Pema Pera: to let Being be your nourishment is for me now more concrete than sticks and stones
Caledonia Heron: I live on an aquifer of limestone which is really porous and great caverns/holes are present and sometime in a river the water will go underground and then come back up
Pema Pera: beautiful!
doug Sosa: sticks and stones are cultural artifacts - as words and as objects.
Caledonia Heron: somewhere down the line it comes up, and that is my picture of tapping into being
Pema Pera: yup
Pema Pera: and if you then extend that picture
Caledonia Heron: we can be the limestone and the river, showing and receding
Pema Pera: to let it come up three-dimensionally, everywhere, at once . . .
Pema Pera: each moment each location
Pema Pera: each appearance
Pema Pera: as All
Caledonia Heron: yeah! cool, I get that
Pema Pera: the mist of Being seeing

Play and games...

doug Sosa: so for the uninitiated, they see people like pema fully engaged. We could be helpful if we could make them comfortable with the paradox.
Pema Pera: not the eyes of Being
Pema Pera: how so, Doug?
doug Sosa: the freedom you have is conincident with great engagment. It is not just letting go, it is letting go and letting filling occur, but from itself.
Pema Pera: oh yes, it feels that way, indeed!
Pema Pera: easier to get truly engaged with a game that with a heavy solid reality!
Pema Pera: a movie you can totally enjoy, more than real life where you recoil at times
doug Sosa: the word "geme" here might be worth exploring.
Pema Pera: and the beauty is that real life really is like a movie!
Pema Pera: not real at all
Pema Pera: geme?
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: not solid or fixed
doug Sosa: Ther is a joke from the old days in soviet union, "what is difference between life and theater?" "In theater there is an emergency exit."
doug Sosa: "game"
Caledonia Heron: also an intermission :)
Pema Pera: Ah! I thought gene and game . . .
Pema Pera: a genetic game
doug Sosa: game to me implies man made rules.
Pema Pera: playing with what you've got
Caledonia Heron: yes, we all trade dna and go around the board
Pema Pera: but playing is what puppies do, their kind of game has no rules
Pema Pera: no man-made at least
Caledonia Heron: lol, it's all game to a puppy :)
Pema Pera: (many meanings of the words play and game)

Comparing games...

doug Sosa: to me play is a richer concept than game. play is, work with what you have, let rearrangments emerge. In game the limits are fixed.
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: but playing an instrument has constraints
Pema Pera: like playing chess or go
Pema Pera: game of chess
Pema Pera: game of flute we don't say, but similar perhaps?
Pema Pera: less rigid?
doug Sosa: well, look at how 20th c music went inside the piano..
Caledonia Heron: play is hearing "go out an play" and spending hours in the fields, trees, creeks doing nothing, just goofing around
doug Sosa: Piaget says that knowledge requires play because it means treating "a this as a that."
Pema Pera: interesting!
Caledonia Heron: you might play a flute or a game of chess, but that doesn't seem like "play"
Pema Pera: playing around categories
doug Sosa: only by such "play" can an organism learn.
Pema Pera: free variations on a flute perhaps?
Caledonia Heron: a rich playground, categories

Blue skin...

doug Sosa: play is really taking what you have and doing things that emerge that have never happened but whose beauty we let emerge.
Pema Pera: yes, Doug, I can see that: when I see a pen, it is not like any pen I've seen before, and simply to recognize it as a pen I have to make playful variations on its shape to make it fall into the ideal pen shape I somehow grok
doug Sosa: or think of how often we use a pen for non pen things, sometimes to the deriment of the pen!
Pema Pera: :)
Caledonia Heron: the pen does not care :)
Pema Pera: up to a point (its point?)
Caledonia Heron: it's ball point :)
doug Sosa: To hold down the page, to slip a note under the - what is it called - that clips on the pocket, or to pick out a tiny screw or... :)
Caledonia Heron: pry open your mouse for new batteries :)
Pema Pera: soil your pockets on occasions
Caledonia Heron: hug your pocket protector :)
doug Sosa: what a mess, but also inkblots.
doug Sosa: and usually near the heart because of where the pocket is.
Pema Pera: watching the colorfull ink behind the glass, a kind of installation
doug Sosa: a pen is a mighty mess machine!
Pema Pera: tell me, especially in long jet flight, decompressed
Caledonia Heron: lol
Pema Pera: got my hands all blue two days ago
Caledonia Heron: thrombosis of the pen
doug Sosa: reminds us that peeing is behind cabin presure..
doug Sosa: "being' but i'll go with peeing.
Pema Pera: my very stern looking neighbor took pity on me, on my hands really, and gave me a napkin -- great conversation opener
Pema Pera: lol, doug
Caledonia Heron: probably not so stern after all :)
Pema Pera: indeed
doug Sosa: i've a fountainpen made by Namiki that does not leak on flights.
Caledonia Heron: being, peeing, all part of the river
Pema Pera: ;)
doug Sosa: actually pen and penis are close in function :)
doug Sosa: we write with ink or dna.
Caledonia Heron: LOL, have you been writing in the snow?
Pema Pera: ?!
Caledonia Heron: ah, ok
doug Sosa: with the pen ink and words, with the penis, dna to create the next generation of "characters"
Pema Pera: cryptic space filled spelling of doug . . . .
doug Sosa: my keyboard is wek on "t"
doug Sosa: weak
Caledonia Heron: yes, and "a" :)
doug Sosa: actually all of them.
Caledonia Heron: you've become unattached to your keyboard :)
doug Sosa: one letter more or less..
doug Sosa: I must go. Laughing all the way... bye :)
Caledonia Heron: bye Doug :)
Pema Pera: bye oops

Doug dematerializes...

Pema Pera: gone with the bell
Caledonia Heron: he doesn't mess around when he leaves
Pema Pera: not even the wind
Pema Pera: nope
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: like during our dinner, remember?
Caledonia Heron: yeah, he only stays 1/2 hour
Caledonia Heron: yes, all of a sudden he was gone
Caledonia Heron: I made that connection too :)
Pema Pera: well, I should pull a doug too
Caledonia Heron: oki, I know it's late
Pema Pera: was almost asleep a couple hours ago
Caledonia Heron: I will stick around a while
Pema Pera: but talking with you woke me up!
Caledonia Heron: lol, yeah, a real shocker :)
Pema Pera: normally half an hour is all that is required from the goc
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: lets blame it on Joey
Caledonia Heron: I guess I could go then, plenty to do :)
Caledonia Heron: yeah, silly fellow
Pema Pera: all bright eyed and bushy tailed
Pema Pera: yup lets dance, lets do the doug together!
Caledonia Heron: :)
Pema Pera: ready?
Pema Pera: take your places
Pema Pera: (how do you say that? never watch sports)
Caledonia Heron: that's right, or on your mark...
Pema Pera: hahaha

Other avs dance in...

Pema Pera: lol
Pema Pera: hi quen!
Caledonia Heron: hey Quen :)
quen Oh: hello Pema and Caledonia :-)
Pema Pera: you quenched our doug
quen Oh: hehe
Pema Pera: hard to explain though
Pema Pera: long story
quen Oh: always with the good stories, hard to explain ;-)
Pema Pera: hehe
Caledonia Heron: we were preparing to dance and go .... would you care to talk a while Quen? Pema has to go ....
Pema Pera: we were about to disappear, at the very moment you showed up
Caledonia Heron: lol, aren't we a pair
Pema Pera: its midnight for me almost
Caledonia Heron: yes, very late
quen Oh: well nice to have had a peek of you both :-)
quen Oh: you are both in Japan?
Caledonia Heron: yes, nice to meet you :)
Caledonia Heron: no, U.S. for me
quen Oh: I believe we have met at a lecture or [mutual friend] Caledonia?
Pema Pera: well, sleep well both of you in due time, eventually!
quen Oh: and you met Gilles the black wolf too I think
Caledonia Heron: yes, Pema and I are in [group name] - we met there I believe
quen Oh: sleep well Pema
Pema Pera: hahaha so hard to get away!
Caledonia Heron: bye Pema :)
quen Oh: hello Adams
Pema Pera: too much fun here
Caledonia Heron: hey Adams :)
quen Oh: its a plot...
Caledonia Heron: play is contagious :)
Pema Pera: each time I say goodbye another interesting character comes to thicken the plot!
Pema Pera: yeah
Adams Rubble: hello everybody; bye Pema
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: well, Adams, you can tell us about our nice three-way chat in Kyoto
Pema Pera: SL Kyoto
Pema Pera: c u all !
Pema Pera is Offline
Caledonia Heron: bye :)

Resettling...

Adams Rubble: are you all leaving?
Caledonia Heron: yes, Pema and I were but now you've arrived we can sit a while :)
quen Oh: I am not, but can
Adams Rubble: It is fine if you want to leave
quen Oh: only stay for a few minutes
Caledonia Heron: no, I planned for this hour, I'm good with it :)
Adams Rubble: I don't have anything in particular I wanted to talk about
Caledonia Heron: me neither, checking in, going with flow :)
Adams Rubble: Your hair looks nice Cal :)
quen Oh: me neither.. have still not even done one 9 seconds break.. difficult to get adjusted to
quen Oh: just when I thought about it, I thought why not log in
Caledonia Heron: thank you, that's very kind :)
Caledonia Heron: well, that was your first one then :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: yes

Sore knee...

quen Oh: are you often here?
Caledonia Heron: time to time
Adams Rubble: I used to be but have been missing many late but I am home recovering from minor knee surgery
Caledonia Heron: oh yes, how did that go?
Adams Rubble: So I am late for everything because I have time on my hands
Caledonia Heron: are you getting better? less sore?
Caledonia Heron: lol, good one
Adams Rubble: It was yesterday morning and I had a bad night but better today
quen Oh: ah thats good to hear, knee surgery is not nice, but I assume will be helpfull ;-)
Caledonia Heron: ah, ok .... you will improve steadily - be sure and follow aftercare instructions... many people do not and it can set you back
Adams Rubble: yes I expect it will Quen
Adams Rubble: Yes Cal I will :)
quen Oh: yes, some people wait too long to move, not very good for a knee
Caledonia Heron: sounded bossy didn't I? sorry
Adams Rubble: No, kindly :)
Caledonia Heron: hope so .... people take their bodies for granted sometimes :)
quen Oh: filled with good intentions
quen Oh: one sec.. phone
Adams Rubble: Cal has a very big heart underneath :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: yes big heart, low tolerance for funny business :)
Adams Rubble: and religion
Caledonia Heron: strange combination :)
Caledonia Heron: religion is fine
Caledonia Heron: it's the mischief that's done with religion :)

A realization...

Adams Rubble: I just had a big insight in which I created a wrong identity early in life because of rejecting religious evangelism
Adams Rubble: Just discovered it early this week
Caledonia Heron: really? what was it?
Adams Rubble: I forgot about my maternal grandfather and how he was at peace with himself as an old man
Adams Rubble: Missed his spirituality
Caledonia Heron: ah, nice ... came back to it did he?
Adams Rubble: I came back to remembering it about him
Adams Rubble: Hi Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Adams Rubble: He always had it
Caledonia Heron: hey Avastu :)
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Caledonia Heron: ok Adams, so you remembered him having it? (trying to connect dots)
Adams Rubble: Oh yes. I just had thrown out that memory in rejecting some of his religious beliefs
Adams Rubble: Throwing out the baby with the bathwater so to speak
Caledonia Heron: a circle then, coming back to it?
quen Oh: :-) back
Adams Rubble: More like throwing off an identity that was in the way
Caledonia Heron: wb :)
Adams Rubble: I am free of it now
Caledonia Heron: sounds like a good thing
Adams Rubble: It is marvelous
Caledonia Heron: picturing you walking a little lighter on your feet :)
quen Oh: hello Avastu
Adams Rubble: :)
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Adams Rubble: Yes I think so :)
Caledonia Heron: Avastu is levitating on my screen :)

Noticing stuff...

quen Oh: ah I see you are talking about religion now?
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Not quite
Caledonia Heron: yes, a bit as it applies to familial relationships for Adams
Adams Rubble: yes
quen Oh: ah
Caledonia Heron: those are strong influential ties and sometimes difficult to notice
Adams Rubble: yes, I never realized one could cloud such a simple thing and hold on to it for so many years
quen Oh: grr phone again
Caledonia Heron: yeah, and for what reason, once noticed the reason may evaporate :)
Caledonia Heron: or be reinforced, free to choose
Adams Rubble: The reason was good, but it had a rider
Adams Rubble: never noticed the rider
Caledonia Heron: :)
Adams Rubble: A matter of SEEing
Caledonia Heron: yes, it sounds like that's true for you
Caledonia Heron: so much noticing going on in this group it's a wonder we stay glued together :)
Caledonia Heron: in a noticing sort of way :)
Adams Rubble has a warm fuzzy feeling about the group
Caledonia Heron: not that I'm attached to that ... ha ha
Caledonia Heron: yeah, it's a good thing Adams
Adams Rubble: The group has been very supportive
Caledonia Heron: for sure ... I'm glad you think that

Bringing each other along...

Adams Rubble: I read yesterday morning's log with great interest
Adams Rubble: It was a good discussion
Caledonia Heron: oh, which one? I came yesterday morning, it that the one? Avastu and I had a good talk I think
Adams Rubble: Yes that one
Caledonia Heron: Avastu may not agree, I was poking around a little :)
Adams Rubble: yes
Caledonia Heron: but respectfully - I hope you got that Avastu :)
quen Oh: :-)
Avastu Maruti: got what, my friend?
Adams Rubble: It came through
Caledonia Heron: my respect for each of our parts in the discussion we had yesterday :)
Caledonia Heron: my respect for your contribution to the dialog
Avastu Maruti: of course, my friend
Caledonia Heron: ok good, I have doubts sometimes because I have to decode your dialog style a little bit
Caledonia Heron: [looking for decoder ring]
Adams Rubble: We all do Cal but it is very simple and straightforward actually
Adams Rubble: And I think Avastu and you have much in common
Caledonia Heron: sure, I see that, and natural speech is very simple and straighforward also
Caledonia Heron: sure we do, as do we all :)
Adams Rubble: Some of us circle around and around as we zero in
Adams Rubble: You two seem to start at the other end
Caledonia Heron: 9sec is a way to reduce circling imo
Adams Rubble: yes, the seeing exercises too
Caledonia Heron: mmm, I can get your observation yet see it that we are in the same place
Caledonia Heron: speaking about it in different ways
Adams Rubble: maybe. that seems to be another trait of our group :)
Caledonia Heron: bringing each other along, as we walk the garden path
Adams Rubble: :)

A little 9sec review...

Adams Rubble: Yes we have helped each other
Adams Rubble: It's great to read in the logs
Caledonia Heron: we help ourselves :)
Adams Rubble: yes that too :)
Caledonia Heron: for me, I appreciate the input but only I can be responsible for where I'm at
Caledonia Heron: only I can "help" myself and I say that reluctantly because I don't really "need" "help"
quen Oh: so 4 times a day people meet here, every 15 minutes they try to take 9 seconds playingasbeing and you also read the blogs.. that seems intensive
Adams Rubble: Yes, that is the ultimate responsibility
Caledonia Heron: yes Quen, a nutshell version :)
Adams Rubble: We don't have to do it all; no rules
Adams Rubble: When we do it, it's because we want to
Caledonia Heron: yeah, take breaks, do it every 12 minutes, whatever
quen Oh: well you must sometimes sleep ;-)
Caledonia Heron: we do take the log, so may we include your comments Quen?
Adams Rubble: Well none of us go to all the sessions
quen Oh: of course, I was asked that yesterday too
Adams Rubble: Yes
Adams Rubble: I haven't posted that part yet
quen Oh: that seems almost impossible lol..

Have we really talked that much?...

Adams Rubble: When I first started I went to as many sessions as I could
quen Oh: ouch
Adams Rubble: The last few weeks I have only made a couple a week
Adams Rubble: We do what is best for us
quen Oh: hope so :-)
Adams Rubble: The first few weeks was like a big retreat for me
Adams Rubble: So easy, just log on to the computer
Adams Rubble: Got the benefit of a full weeks activity for a fraction of the time
Adams Rubble: no travelling
Adams Rubble: no fees
Adams Rubble: all free for the taking
Caledonia Heron: ok thanks Quen, I'm never sure who's been here when :)
quen Oh: hehe no guestbook here...
Adams Rubble: nope
Caledonia Heron: sure :) the logs, and, the volume is large :)
quen Oh: true
quen Oh: its enormous I saw the site
Adams Rubble: yes, over 500 now
quen Oh: gosh
Caledonia Heron: no kidding
Caledonia Heron: it will be some grad students project no doubt
Adams Rubble: I never got too far back on the ones that took place before I came
Adams Rubble: haha Cal
Caledonia Heron: just babbling then also :)
Adams Rubble: probably true
Adams Rubble: another may be my blog :)
Caledonia Heron: possible
Adams Rubble: I have proved to be very wordy
quen Oh: ;-) well it can be interesting to leave through to see what you are all talking about ;-)
Caledonia Heron: yeah we're all pretty chatty, except for maybe Avastu :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: [your cue dude] :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: [oh wait, that's your cue to no cue :)]
Avastu Maruti smiles
Adams Rubble laughs
quen Oh: he seems radiating peaceful quietness, that can be good too
Caledonia Heron: for sure
Adams Rubble: Yes, we are fortunate Avastu joins us
Caledonia Heron: sure, everyone is welcome :)

Word play...

quen Oh: you like it here Avastu?
Avastu Maruti: yes, my friend
quen Oh smiles at Avastu's impressive ava
Caledonia Heron: lol, yes, certainly a presence
Caledonia Heron: a present
Caledonia Heron: a presenting presence
Caledonia Heron: a presence presenting
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: silly interplay, words are fun :)
quen Oh: words can be silly too
quen Oh: if you play with them
Caledonia Heron: yes, a fun playground
quen Oh: you know what english word I like best?
quen Oh: nifty
Caledonia Heron: let's hear it,
Caledonia Heron: :)
Caledonia Heron: swell :)
quen Oh: its such a nice sound, and seems so adequate
Caledonia Heron: peachy
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: I like the way the word shellac sounds
quen Oh: must always smile when I read / hear/ say it
quen Oh: even when I type it
Caledonia Heron: nifty
Adams Rubble: callehs spelled backward
Caledonia Heron: :)
Caledonia Heron: or words like racecar that go forwards and back
Adams Rubble: :)
quen Oh: ouch thats a terrible phase I remember, when in primary school I felt the need to reverse every word I heard... first funny but addictive too
Caledonia Heron: makes for nimble thinking :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: thimble ninking
quen Oh: yes thats curious too, when the first parts of 2 words switch
Caledonia Heron: makes you realize how arbitrary words can be ... the history derived from ancient things applied to a described here-ness
quen Oh: have it with time too btw, and that seems lasting...
quen Oh: I like it when it is 2.22 or 12.34
Adams Rubble: or 08/08/08
quen Oh: there are many nice times... 2.52 for instance (fond of rotation symmetries)
Caledonia Heron: yes, patterns ... some phone numbers I especially like ... I have a friend with a 10 digit number that contains only 3 numbers in combinations
quen Oh: nice
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: yeah, easy to remember, visualize
quen Oh: have a friend with a series of double uneven numbers from 3 till 9 very nice
quen Oh: in order
Caledonia Heron: cool, I have one that is even then odds
quen Oh: lol the joy of dialling that
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: lol, a simple pleasure :)
quen Oh: btw she is nice to talk to too
Caledonia Heron: double down pleasure
Caledonia Heron: rats, I have to go y'all :)
Adams Rubble: Ok, Cal. Good seeing you again :)
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Caledonia Heron: same here - bye everyone :)
Caledonia Heron: see you soon :)
quen Oh: bye Avastu